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FiveLinden
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But not the pre-Vatican ll doctrine about the authority of the Pope and ecumenical councils?
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FiveLinden
Guest
And getting back to the OP: why would an atheist want a Catholic funeral? Why would their family disrespect them by arranging one?
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Isca
Guest
In the UK, we don’t have a lot of space. If everyone opted to be buried, we’d have a serious problem. Our Catholic graveyards are full, because most of our churches are old.
My MIL died recently and we were very fortunate to have been able to purchase a small cremains plot in a Catholic church graveyard - some new plots were allowed to be set aside a few years back, but not very many were available. There’s not been a full burial in that graveyard for about 60 or 70 years. I intend to be buried, but it won’t be in a Catholic cemetery - it’ll have to be in a municipal one, because that’s all that’s available.
Cremation is absolutely allowed, as long as the ashes remain together. The only time a Catholic funeral might be denied is if the deceased opted for cremation with the express intention of having his or her ashes divided or scattered. There has been recent guidance on this from the Vatican, which I’ve already quoted on another thread and which 1ke outlined above.
I appreciate that @BridgetN has different views, but I think it’s important that we don’t mislead people about the actual instruction of the Church on this matter. Cremation is permitted as long as the ashes are buried or otherwise interred.
My MIL died recently and we were very fortunate to have been able to purchase a small cremains plot in a Catholic church graveyard - some new plots were allowed to be set aside a few years back, but not very many were available. There’s not been a full burial in that graveyard for about 60 or 70 years. I intend to be buried, but it won’t be in a Catholic cemetery - it’ll have to be in a municipal one, because that’s all that’s available.
Cremation is absolutely allowed, as long as the ashes remain together. The only time a Catholic funeral might be denied is if the deceased opted for cremation with the express intention of having his or her ashes divided or scattered. There has been recent guidance on this from the Vatican, which I’ve already quoted on another thread and which 1ke outlined above.
I appreciate that @BridgetN has different views, but I think it’s important that we don’t mislead people about the actual instruction of the Church on this matter. Cremation is permitted as long as the ashes are buried or otherwise interred.
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TheOldColonel
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I have seen two Catholic Funerals celebrated for adults who were described by their families as unbaptized, non-believers who had no desire to convert before death.
This was done by the pastors to comfort the relatives who were Catholic. Yet, it was quite noticeable that the many references to Baptism in the liturgies were not at all appropriate for the circumstances. I do not feel that the funeral liturgy should be used in such a manner.
This was done by the pastors to comfort the relatives who were Catholic. Yet, it was quite noticeable that the many references to Baptism in the liturgies were not at all appropriate for the circumstances. I do not feel that the funeral liturgy should be used in such a manner.
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Genesis315
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Vatican II did not address this issue. It also wasn’t absolutely forbidden prior. For example, the June 19,1926 instruction on the topic from the Holy Office specifically says “the cremation of bodies, since it is not wrong in itself, may be permitted” before explaining why, at the time, it was important to maintain the law as it was given the general proliferation of bad motivations for it (while also providing for exceptions being made).
The Church still generally opposes cremation being treated as the norm, but the removal of certain automatic penalties being applied for it where those bad motivations did not apply came from another Holy Office instruction in 1963.
Again, Vatican II didn’t address this issue (it wasn’t even in session at the time the instruction was issued).
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EqualinHim
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This is why I’m a big supporter of green burial. Burial in a shroud or biodegradable casket is much less expensive than traditional burial. It conforms with church teachings while being inexpensive.
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PJM
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COULD A minor actually BE an atheist? I think not; nor do I see any circumstances that an atheist could be buried in the RCC except for the possibility of a witnessed last minute conversion and the testimony of a priest.
Easter Blessings,
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
Fair question:
One would have to specifically define what a “minor is”.
In my reply I defined this as one to young to have reached the “age” of reason.
Yes a preteen and teenagers are “minors” and yes they can deny God. And if SUCH are known to be atheist they cannot be buried in a RCC.
Easter Blessings,
Patrick
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goout
Guest
How does an infant choose to believe no God exists?PJM:
Everyone is born an atheist. Actually an a-everything.
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goout
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Depends whether the minor is a newborn or 17 years old.
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goout
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Yes. And you can get into the difference between knowing about God and loving God. A person is probably capable of loving God at an earlier age than knowing about God.
Loving would be a higher form of belief?
Loving would be a higher form of belief?
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FiveLinden
Guest
Atheism is not a choice to believe anything. It is the absence of a belief. When born children have no beliefs about anything. If you are Catholic I am guessing you do not believe in the existence of any of the old Norse gods. It probably never occurred to you to believe in them. It also never occurs to a child to believe in the Christian God until someone suggests it to them. That is why Christian beliefs never spontaneously generated anywhere without Christians spreading the word.
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goout
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No no.
A-theism. By definition. Atheism is a specific choice to believe a specific thing.
It’s not really possible for a toddler to make a decision against God.
Claiming no specific belief is agnostic. “not knowing”
A-The-ism.
I respect whatever you believe but co-opting language is not helpful.
A-theism. By definition. Atheism is a specific choice to believe a specific thing.
It’s not really possible for a toddler to make a decision against God.
Claiming no specific belief is agnostic. “not knowing”
A-The-ism.
I respect whatever you believe but co-opting language is not helpful.
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FiveLinden
Guest
Sorry but no Atheism is simply not believing in a god, or gods. Just like you (I’m guessing) don’t believe in Papatuanuku and Ranginui. I am guessing you never made a choice to not believe in them. You don’t. .
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Hereiam
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At yet merely copying and pasting the code does not resolve the questions, thus we have canon lawyers to give definitive answers.
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goout
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Yea, actually “I do” (pun intended) forsake all other gods.goout:
Sorry but no Atheism is simply not believing in a god, or gods. Just like you (I’m guessing) don’t believe in Papatuanuku and Ranginui. I am guessing you never made a choice to not believe in them. You don’t. .
I make that choice.
In the same way an A-Theist has made a choice against God.
(Unless you want to redefine words, in which case your playground is limitless)
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Pup7
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True - but in our case that can’t be done in a National Cemetery.
And you’d be sickened if you found out how much opening a grave is (we didn’t pay for that either, or for the actual digging of the grave - “opening” and “digging” apparently aren’t the same charge). You’d still have to pay that, and buy the plot, and it’s not cheap.
And you’d be sickened if you found out how much opening a grave is (we didn’t pay for that either, or for the actual digging of the grave - “opening” and “digging” apparently aren’t the same charge). You’d still have to pay that, and buy the plot, and it’s not cheap.
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sonofbarry
Guest
And, realistically, think of all the burials done in flimsy coffins that have broken down over the centuries under the weight of earth. Those bodies are now long gone. What about those who have been blown to bits in war or eaten by crocodiles?
As other posters have noted, the resurrected body is completely new, no matter how many thousands of years the old body has been disintegrating under the ground. Cremation is just a more immediate form of disintegration.
As other posters have noted, the resurrected body is completely new, no matter how many thousands of years the old body has been disintegrating under the ground. Cremation is just a more immediate form of disintegration.
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