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Rick09
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theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/the-pope-hunters-pathological-campaign/comments-e6frg6zo-1225853773394
The author’s an “atheistic libertarian.”
The author’s an “atheistic libertarian.”
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Teelynn
Guest
They can scream and call for his head all they want but first they will have to come up with some “evidence” of his “crimes”…hmmm…good luck God haters!!!
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j1akey
Guest
Here ya go!
Basically, yeah it sucks but lets sweep it under the rug and hope no one finds out.
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Rick09
Guest
Would it be too much to ask that you at least rise to the level of a google scholar before smugly judging another, let alone the Holy Father?
radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=371161
jimmyakin.org/2010/04/smoking-gun-memo-finally-translated.html
catholicnewsagency.com/news/italian_political_paper_ny_times_needs_consultants_more_than_vatican_does/
[catholicnewsagency.com/news/ny_times_ap_criticism_of_pope_based_off_mistranslated_vatican_memo/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+catholicnewsagency%2Fdailynews+(CNA+Daily+News](http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ny_times_ap_criticism_of_pope_based_off_mistranslated_vatican_memo/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+catholicnewsagency%2Fdailynews+(CNA+Daily+News)
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Rick09
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Kiesle. Right.
Listen, I don’t know if something happened to you and you’re angry or if you’re just a Catholic hater or what, but, that’s the “crime” you want to charge the Pope with? Based on a form letter? What I see doesn’t even qualify as “sweeping it under the rug.” Let alone a “crime”.
I wouldn’t make that kind of heavy accusation against anyone based on that “evidence”, never mind the head the Catholic Church.
I don’t get what makes people think they can just let fly with public accusations like that against anyone.
Read:
radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=371161
catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican_analyst_denounces_anti-catholic_media_bias/
catholicnewsagency.com/news/ap_guilty_of_bad_journalism_in_oakland_abuse_reporting_says_ignatius_press_founder/
catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=632
socon.ca/or_bust/?p=6102
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j1akey
Guest
Well, the first thing is that sexual abuse by catholic priests is nothing new. This has been going on for decades with relatively little involvement from the church. Rather than being disciplined, it gets thrown on the back burner, the priest is moved to a new area and that’s that. The church traditionally takes no action unless their hand is forced by a 3rd party.
Now granted, I doubt that this sort of thing happens more in the church than it does anywhere else but I don’t have the numbers in front of me. The real problem I have is that the catholic church always takes the morally high ground above all others and this whole thing has hypocracy written all over it. Many people claim that the church is our moral compass so to speak but these rapes go from the lowest levels all the way up through the highest levels of the church, whether it’s people that are directly involved or those trying to cover it up to protect the church as a whole. I’m not anti-catholic, I’m anti-fake moral superiority.
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Rick09
Guest
What I see now are generalities and guesses based on popular media coverage from a person who just let fly with some very serious and slanderous public accusations against the head of the Catholic Church. You had no real right or justification to make those accusations. Do you think they’re less serious because you’re typing them at your computer? I don’t get why some people think its okay to let fly with things over the internet that I really doubt they would dare to say in person.
Let me help you with some of the numbers.
catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml
zenit.org/article-3922?l=english
One case of abuse is too much. But wouldn’t it be nice if the public schools, daycare centers, etc. were all subject to the same scrutiny and all took abuse as seriously as the Church? Where are all their self-funded studies on the abuse of minors?
Your mistake is thinking that we believe we’re morally superior and so we’re “hypocrites”. That’s not it at all. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a shrine for saints. But unlike those outside the Church, we know for certain how to get to heaven. We can know with confidence what is wrong and what is right through the teaching of Christ’s Church. We have the fullness of the means Christ gave to humans to get us back on track. That’s why the Church is a moral compass. And you know what, there are a damned lot of holy and saintly people in this Church over the millennia who got that way exactly because they follow those teachings.
Do a few fail spectacularly? Yah. But ya don’t judge a group by those who don’t follow it’s precepts and beliefs.
On the other hand, the world is lost and either doesn’t know it or has no idea how to find its way at all.
That’s the difference.
But some people would rather point at the failings of a few in the Church in order to justify themselves or rationalize their unwillingness to truly submit their will to Christ. Some people would rather follow their self-styled Jesus based on their own personal interpretations.
Are you one of those people? I don’t know for sure based on a few comments over the internet. But they lean in that direction.
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Rick09
Guest
What I see now are generalities and guesses based on popular media coverage from a person who just let fly with some very serious and slanderous public accusations against the head of the Catholic Church. You had no real right or justification to make those accusations. Do you think they’re less serious because you’re typing them at your computer? I don’t get why some people think its okay to let fly with things over the internet that I really doubt they would dare to say in person. You should take back what you wrote about the Pope.
Let me help you with some of the numbers.
catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml
zenit.org/article-3922?l=english
One case of abuse is too much. But wouldn’t it be nice if the public schools, daycare centers, etc. were all subject to the same scrutiny and all took abuse as seriously as the Church? Where are all their self-funded studies on the abuse of minors?
Your mistake is thinking that we believe we’re morally superior and so we’re “hypocrites”. That’s not it at all. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a shrine for saints. But unlike those outside the Church, we know for certain how to get to heaven. We can know with confidence what is wrong and what is right through the teaching of Christ’s Church. We have the fullness of the means Christ gave to humans to get us back on track. That’s why the Church is a moral compass. And you know what, there are a damned lot of holy and saintly people in this Church over the millennia who got that way exactly because they follow those teachings and receive the grace of Christ available here (the sacraments, etc.).
Do a few fail - even spectacularly? Yah. But ya don’t judge a group by those who don’t follow it’s precepts and beliefs.
On the other hand, the world is lost and sick and either doesn’t know it or has no idea how to find its way to healing and salvation at all - no trustworthy compass.
That’s the difference.
But some people would rather point at the failings of a few in the Church in order to justify themselves or rationalize their unwillingness to truly submit their will to Christ and His Church (speaking to his apostles ; “he who hears you, hears me.”). Some people would rather follow their self-styled Jesus based on their own personal interpretations and be their own popes - lone rangers.
Are you one of those people? I don’t know for sure based on a few comments over the internet. But they lean in that direction.
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Rick09
Guest
What I see now are generalities and guesses based on popular media coverage from a person who just let fly with some very serious and slanderous public accusations against the head of the Catholic Church. You had no real right or justification to make those accusations. Do you think they’re less serious because you’re typing them at your computer? I don’t get why some people think its okay to let fly with things over the internet that I really doubt they would dare to say in person. You should take back what you wrote about the Pope.
Let me help you with some of the numbers.
catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml
zenit.org/article-3922?l=english
One case of abuse is too much. But wouldn’t it be nice if the public schools, daycare centers, etc. were all subject to the same scrutiny and all took abuse as seriously as the Church? Where are all their self-funded studies on the abuse of minors?
Your mistake is thinking that we believe we’re morally superior and so we’re “hypocrites”. That’s not it at all. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a shrine for saints. But unlike those outside the Church, we know for certain how to get to heaven. We can know with confidence what is wrong and what is right through the teaching of Christ’s Church. We have the fullness of the means Christ gave to humans to get us back on track. That’s why the Church is a moral compass. And you know what, there are a damned lot of holy and saintly people in this Church over the millennia who got that way exactly because they follow those teachings and receive the grace of Christ available here (the sacraments, etc.).
Do a few fail - even spectacularly? Yah. But ya don’t judge a group by those who don’t follow it’s precepts and beliefs.
On the other hand, the world is lost and sick and either doesn’t know it or has no idea how to find its way to healing and salvation at all - no trustworthy compass.
That’s the difference.
But some people would rather point at the failings of a few in the Church in order to justify themselves or rationalize their unwillingness to truly submit their will to Christ and His Church (speaking to his apostles ; “he who hears you, hears me.”). Some people would rather follow their self-styled Jesus based on their own personal interpretations and be their own popes - lone rangers.
Are you one of those people? I don’t know for sure based on a few comments over the internet. But they lean in that direction.
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RPRPsych
Guest
That’s a thoughtful and well-balanced article.
The issue is a lot more complex than most casual readers realize. Unfortunately the media, short of “interesting” stories to publish, seems to have taken a one-sided and black-and-white view on the issue without pausing to think of the consequences.
For an example of the complexities involved, and for a more balanced perspective, I wholeheartedly recommend this article:
ww.scu.edu/cas/psychology/faculty/upload/Plante-Clergy-Paper-2.pdf
The issue is a lot more complex than most casual readers realize. Unfortunately the media, short of “interesting” stories to publish, seems to have taken a one-sided and black-and-white view on the issue without pausing to think of the consequences.
For an example of the complexities involved, and for a more balanced perspective, I wholeheartedly recommend this article:
ww.scu.edu/cas/psychology/faculty/upload/Plante-Clergy-Paper-2.pdf
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OriginalJS
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The argument that “others are also guilty of sex abuse” is just not convincing. The others don’t claim to be the vicars of Jesus Christ, the direct successors of the Apostles, and the supreme moral authority of the earth.
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jdnation
Guest
Well none the less, those who are so passionate about bringing the Church to justice while at the same time turning a blind eye to the abuses that are worse and in far great number and covered up far more regularly in public schools, government and other institutions is just as guilty of neglecting to address child abuse as the priests and bishops who covered it up or turned a blind eye to it or were simply neglectful.
- The only reason we make comparisons of the Church abuse to other institutions is to address those particular individuals who are misinformed and believe the Church is the worst. This isn’t neglecting the sex abuse, it’s an address against another attack that is unjustified. If someone was accusing you of something and greatly exaggerating what you did, should you not also defend yourself in that regard?
- The supreme authority on Earth is made up of falliable men who will often fail sometimes. If you bothered to see the comparisons between the Church and other institutions it would go a long ways to showing you that despite some failings the Church is still far and away much better than any other institution out there which is pretty good and what one would expect from an institution that proclaims itself to be the supreme moral authority.
- So yes, the argument that “others are also guilty of sex abuse” isn’t convincing. The argument that “others are guilty of sex abuse at a far worse scale” is more convincing. It’s not an excuse, but it must be repeated over and over again to counter the false and exaggerated claims of those with an agenda of using these abuses not out of charity to help victims but to help forward their agenda of bringing down the Church.
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Rick09
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Yeah, anyone with such terrible lapses in judgment, discernment and courage couldn’t be God’s anointed.
I mean Jesus chose a man as an Apostle who was a thief and he put him in charge of the money.
Same guy also betrayed the Messiah for 30 pieces of silver and directly led to his execution.
Jesus chose a coward, liar and blow-hard for his leader-pope - Peter.
Some of his other “leaders” were self-indulgent, ego-centric ninnies who fought over who was the greatest and who would get to sit next to him in heaven.
He picked a TAX COLLECTOR to be one of his Apostles. Are you KIDDING me?
Clearly this Guy had no sense in picking so-called “Apostles” and “Vicars.”
1 out of 12 was a horrible betrayer! Do you know that’s over 8%? Unbelievable!
Almost the rest were cowards and ran away like frightened little children rather than standing up for Him.
Only ONE of the 12 had guts to stay with him. JUST ONE!!! Only about 8% of his picks had guts!!!
What a joke, eh? Who would follow that Guy? Who would follow His “leaders”.
jdnation (above) gets it. And who here is arguing merely that “others are also guilty of sex abuse”? I don’t see that argument being made here. I see a much more serious argument than that.
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Rick09
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Yeah, anyone with such terrible lapses in judgment, discernment and courage couldn’t be God’s anointed.
I mean Jesus chose a man as an Apostle who was a thief and he put him in charge of the money.
Same guy also betrayed the Messiah for 30 pieces of silver and directly led to the Messiah’s execution.
Jesus chose a coward, liar and blow-hard for his leader-pope - Peter.
Some of his other “leaders” were self-indulgent, ego-centric ninnies who fought over who was the greatest and who would get to sit next to him in heaven.
He picked a TAX COLLECTOR to be one of his Apostles. Are you KIDDING me?
Clearly this Guy had no sense in picking so-called “Apostles” and “Vicars.”
1 out of 12 was a horrible betrayer! Do you know that’s over 8%? Look at the statistics! Unbelievable!
Almost the rest were cowards and ran away like frightened little children rather than standing up for Him.
Only ONE of the 12 had guts to stay with him. JUST ONE!!! Only about 8% of his picks had guts!!! Look at the statistics!
What a joke, eh? Who would follow that Guy? Who would follow His “leaders”?
jdnation (above) gets it. And who here is arguing merely that “others are also guilty of sex abuse”? I don’t see that argument being made here. I see a much more serious argument than that.
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Rick09
Guest
Yeah, anyone with such terrible lapses in judgment, discernment and courage couldn’t possibly be God’s anointed.
I mean, Jesus chose a man as an Apostle who was a thief and he put him in charge of the money.
Same guy also betrayed the Messiah for 30 pieces of silver and directly led to the Messiah’s execution.
Jesus chose a coward, liar and blow-hard for his leader-pope - Peter.
Some of his other “leaders” were self-indulgent, ego-centric ninnies who fought over who was the greatest and who would get to sit next to him in heaven.
He picked a TAX COLLECTOR to be one of his Apostles. Are you KIDDING me? We know about those tax collectors, don’t we?
Clearly this Guy had no sense in picking so-called “Apostles” and “Vicars.”
1 out of 12 picks was a heinous betrayer! Do you know that’s over 8%? Look at the statistics! Unbelievable!
Almost the rest were cowards and ran away like frightened little children rather than standing up for Him.
Only ONE of the 12 picks had the guts to stay with him. JUST ONE!!! Only about 8% of his picks had guts!!! Look at the statistics!
What a joke, eh? Who would follow that Guy? Who would follow His “leaders”?
jdnation (above) gets it. And who here is arguing merely that “others are also guilty of sex abuse”? I don’t see that argument being made here. I see a much more serious argument than that.
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