Atheists Announce Public Campaign Against Catholics

[Raskolnikov]

he was baptized a catholic, which would make him christian, and never said anything to the contrary

it had little influence on what he did, but he never outright reject the fact he was a roman catholic

True, but at the very most this would make him a Catholic by Catholic standards, which makes it odd for some atheists to try to use it as ammunition against Catholicism, because as far as they’re concerned baptism is a meaningless ritual, and he was not a Catholic by belief, and so should be considered one by anyone who does not believe in Catholic baptism. The exact nature of Hitler’s religious belief is of course highly speculative, as he regulatly contradicted himself, his own statements veering from advocating some contorted form of Christianity, to outright anti-Christian atheism. No one can say what exactly he was.

lynx:

No one kills for atheism, people still kill in the name of God. Atheism is unjustly associated with things like communism, and is then associated with any wrongdoings of that ideology. That is about as well reasoned as saying Hitler was a Christian, therefore Nazism is born from Christianity right? He did use it as a tool to promote early Nazism. However, this is still an unfair assessment. Atheism and the, major, lessons from the Bible don’t tell you to murder people. It is the destructive ideology wrapped around those beliefs that kill people.

On the flip side, no one ever did a good deed for atheism. As for Nazism and religion, that is an incredibly complex subject. But there were numerous anti-Christian atheists among the Nazi elite (Martin Bormann being the most notable), there were neopagans, and there were Christians, of sorts. Many devout Christians were also among the most committed opponents of Nazism. Nazism was a ultimately secular political ideology, and to tether it to a theological point of view is somewhat dubious in my opinion.

1holycatholic:

A minuscule percentage of the population are atheists, yet atheism is responsible for the greatest mass murders in history.

I think this kind of debate is always doomed to go astray, because is virtually impossible ascribe particular crimes to a religion or a lack of religion. To chalk up the victims of Stalin to atheism is in my opinion hardly more warranted than chalking up the casualties of the Thirty Years War to Christianity. How can one say if some particular victim of said war was a victim of Protestantims? of Catholicism? or of the rivalry between the Habsburgs and the Bourbens? Same with the victim of Stalin’s purges. This attempt to quantify the casualties of religion or atheism doesn’t really work, in my opinion.

 

[MontChevalier]

You do have to wonder, don’t ya?

Seriously, though:

I personally would say to these misguided folks------BRING IT ON. (Also-----“Ohhhhhhh, we’re so terrified!!!”)
Holy Mother Church has weathered worse things than these for millenia. We’ve survived it all. Like somebody else said here----nothing new here.
Ultimately, the best thing to do is pray for these people to receive the truth of Christ.

Mhm, that’s true, without a doubt. The Church has survived gnosticism–the attempt at paganizing Christianity, the Roman Empire’s daily persecution, jewish persecution, pagan Viking attacks, islamic persecution, the schisms from various groups, secularism. The list goes on.

The worst was the Islamic attacks, but those have long been over. We can thank Poland for that. Thanks be to God for creating Poland to defend us.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Mhm, that’s true, without a doubt. The Church has survived gnosticism–the attempt at paganizing Christianity, the Roman Empire’s daily persecution, jewish persecution, pagan Viking attacks, islamic persecution, the schisms from various groups, secularism. The list goes on.

The worst was the Islamic attacks, but those have long been over. We can thank Poland for that. Thanks be to God for creating Poland to defend us.

Yes, indeed. Unfortunately, nobody remmebers that anymore.

Indeed.

Too bad.

 

[1holycatholic]

True, but at the very most this would make him a Catholic by Catholic standards, which makes it odd for some atheists to try to use it as ammunition against Catholicism, because as far as they’re concerned baptism is a meaningless ritual, and he was not a Catholic by belief, and so should be considered one by anyone who does not believe in Catholic baptism. The exact nature of Hitler’s religious belief is of course highly speculative, as he regulatly contradicted himself, his own statements veering from advocating some contorted form of Christianity, to outright anti-Christian atheism. No one can say what exactly he was.

Atheists hold the irrational belief that there is no God.

God necessarily exists. He established the Catholic Church which is the custodian of the Sacraments. Atheist views of the Sacraments are irrelevant.

Hitler targeted Catholic clergy and had them exterminated. That’s impossible to reconcile with even the most contorted Christianity.

On the flip side, no one ever did a good deed for atheism. As for Nazism and religion, that is an incredibly complex subject. But there were numerous anti-Christian atheists among the Nazi elite (Martin Bormann being the most notable), there were neopagans, and there were Christians, of sorts. Many devout Christians were also among the most committed opponents of Nazism. Nazism was a ultimately secular political ideology, and to tether it to a theological point of view is somewhat dubious in my opinion.

I think this kind of debate is always doomed to go astray, because is virtually impossible ascribe particular crimes to a religion or a lack of religion. To chalk up the victims of Stalin to atheism is in my opinion hardly more warranted than chalking up the casualties of the Thirty Years War to Christianity. How can one say if some particular victim of said war was a victim of Protestantims? of Catholicism? or of the rivalry between the Habsburgs and the Bourbens? Same with the victim of Stalin’s purges. This attempt to quantify the casualties of religion or atheism doesn’t really work, in my opinion.

It’s not impossible. Stalin didn’t just destroy Churches, he and his regime explicitly targeted Russian Orthodox clerics for extermination because theists are a perceived threat to atheists.

 

[Abba]

1holycatholic,

I can not find the interview.

I understand that the real energy behind this are the pro-homosexuality groups.

I wonder how many of the participants are truly atheists? I think that the pro-homosexuality groups are trying to make their protests bigger and more effective and are going under the umbrella of atheism to attract more people etc… but, they have their own reasons and agendas.

This is why I think atheists who really want to know if a God exists should go at it own their own - not as a member of a group that can manipulate, misguide and use them. It’s not true that all atheists support homosexual lifestyles and whatever else may get thrown in the mix.

 

[Dale_M]

1holycatholic,

I can not find the interview.

I wonder if the radio station took down the audio file?

One of the sources for the article cited in the first post is:
hazteoir.org/alerta/37370-procesion-atea-en-jueves-santo-castigar-contemplaciones-catolicos

That source claims to have archived the radio interview:
blip.tv/file/get/HazteOir-RadioELA783.mp3

However, I can not confirm it as the download speed, at present, seems to be at a crawl.

 

[1holycatholic]

1holycatholic,

I can not find the interview.

I understand that the real energy behind this are the pro-homosexuality groups.

I wonder how many of the participants are truly atheists? I think that the pro-homosexuality groups are trying to make their protests bigger and more effective and are going under the umbrella of atheism to attract more people etc… but, they have their own reasons and agendas.

This is why I think atheists who really want to know if a God exists should go at it own their own - not as a member of a group that can manipulate, misguide and use them.

“Atheism is indeed the most daring of all dogmas . . . for it is the assertion of a universal negative.”

• G. K. Chesterton

 

[Raskolnikov]

MontChevalier:

The worst was the Islamic attacks, but those have long been over. We can thank Poland for that. Thanks be to God for creating Poland to defend us.

I find it funny, because this would very much annoy a Hungarian friend of mine who insists (not entirely inaccurately) that it is to the Hungarians, a rather forgotten people, that we owe the existence of western civilization for holding out against the Turks. So I feel obligated to throw some credit their way, since they don’t get paid attention for much else. So thank God for the Hungarians as well.

1holycatholic:

Hitler targeted Catholic clergy and had them exterminated. That’s impossible to reconcile with even the most contorted Christianity.

Hitler’s regime sponsered a racialized, fascist ‘interpretation’ of Christianity they called “Positive Christianity.” It may not have been Christianity, but that’s what they called it.

It’s not impossible. Stalin didn’t just destroy Churches, he and his regime explicitly targeted Russian Orthodox clerics for extermination because theists are a perceived threat to atheists.

The mere fact that Stalin and his cohorts were atheists was not sufficient to drive them to commit the atrocities they committed. There was more to it than that. Whether it was necessary or not, I can’t say. I must qualify your generalization too. Many atheists do not consider themselves threatened by theists. Others do.

 

[1holycatholic]

The mere fact that Stalin and his cohorts were atheists was not sufficient to drive them to commit the atrocities they committed. There was more to it than that. Whether it was necessary or not, I can’t say. I must qualify your generalization too. Many atheists do not consider themselves threatened by theists. Others do.

Yet the historic record is perspicuous, atheist regimes are responsible for the greatest mass murders in history.

 

[ANNE_2]

Hilter was an athiest. He totally rejected his Catholic baptism of his childhood.
He and his Nazi Party killed more people - both Jews and Catholics than any other organized group. He persecuted Catholics in Poland and murdered Priests.

Am I implying that all athiests are dangerous - no.
I am implying that all HATE CRIMES have the potential for dangerous implications. (This gets back to the original article.)

Regarding his baptism as an infant this is how Hitler left the Church - - -
CCC “2089
** Incredulity** is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
** apostasy** is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

 

[CGDouglas]

~15% in North America en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#North_America and probably closer to 14% world wide. For a little perspective, there are more atheists in the USA than any individual racial minority group en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity . A minuscule percentage indeed

Yes, it still is. 45,000 in 300 million is rather small.

And approx 980,000,000 world wide out of an number of 7 billion doesn’t warrant any impression either.

lynx:

No one kills for atheism, people still kill in the name of God. Atheism is unjustly associated with things like communism, and is then associated with any wrongdoings of that ideology.

Of course they’re associated with that ideology, Atheism is a key component of Marxism. No one kills for atheism, they just tend to kill for their own needs because they don’t tend to believe in a higher moral or absolute moral system.

lynx:

That is about as well reasoned as saying Hitler was a Christian, therefore Nazism is born from Christianity right?

Care to specifically link Christianity with Nazism by manifestos? Marx did it, Hitler did not.

lynx:

He did use it as a tool to promote early Nazism. However, this is still an unfair assessment. Atheism and the, major, lessons from the Bible don’t tell you to murder people. It is the destructive ideology wrapped around those beliefs that kill people.

The Bible tells us not to, what tells the Atheist not to?

God Bless,

Chris.

 

[CGDouglas]

Raskolnikov:

Hitler’s regime sponsered a racialized, fascist ‘interpretation’ of Christianity they called “Positive Christianity.” It may not have been Christianity, but that’s what they called it.

The problem with Positive Christianity is that it went off the rails from Christianity, denial of the Old Testament because it was written by Jews, the introduction of pagan elements within this ‘Positive Christianity’ essentially made it no longer Christian.

Raskolnikov:

The mere fact that Stalin and his cohorts were atheists was not sufficient to drive them to commit the atrocities they committed. There was more to it than that. Whether it was necessary or not, I can’t say. I must qualify your generalization too. Many atheists do not consider themselves threatened by theists. Others do.

General understanding is simple: Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao ZeDong, Kim Jong iL, Lenin, all were Atheists. Second linking is the genocide and brutality under their rule. We can conclude that due to absence of an absolute morality, this is what happens with atheism, Man is ultimately God (Stalin’s ego proved that).

God Bless,

Chris.

 

[1holycatholic]

Hilter was an athiest. He totally rejected his Catholic baptism of his childhood.
He and his Nazi Party killed more people - both Jews and Catholics than any other organized group. He persecuted Catholics in Poland and murdered Priests.

Am I implying that all athiests are dangerous - no.
I am implying that all HATE CRIMES have the potential for dangerous implications. (This gets back to the original article.)

Regarding his baptism as an infant this is how Hitler left the Church - - -
CCC “2089
** Incredulity** is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
** apostasy** is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

You can’t be a heretic, apostate or schismatic without being part of the Church. Read the bit on baptism in the Catechism.

You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave… :yup:

 

[MontChevalier]

Yes, indeed. Unfortunately, nobody remebers that anymore.

Indeed.

Too bad.

Oh c’mon, it’s not like that.

We keep those moments alive according to our ways of education. I think it’s imperative that every Catholic take some time with their family, spouse, child, friend, whatever, and just learn a bit about those days. We keep the memories of the times alive that way. It’s how we know that there is something to be proud of in Catholicism, not just the fact that call ourselves Catholic, but that we have a history of heroes, and good deeds; that we are not what the media and Hollywood keep portraying.

I can’t get enough of talking about those days. I talk about them practically everyday. I read about them, watch movies of them, I’m practically living in those days. I usually picture myself as a Knight of Saint John the Baptist fighting in one of the Crusades, or defending a castle. But that’s just childish day-dreaming.

Why, I was so caught up by that history that I became Catholic because of it.
It’s funny, cause the Crusades usually have the opposite effect on people.

Raskolnikov:

I find it funny, because this would very much annoy a Hungarian friend of mine who insists (not entirely inaccurately) that it is to the Hungarians, a rather forgotten people, that we owe the existence of western civilization for holding out against the Turks. So I feel obligated to throw some credit their way, since they don’t get paid attention for much else. So thank God for the Hungarians as well.

Well, that’s not exactly true, in a way. Although Eastern European history is not a heavily studied subject, Hungary and several others, such as the Wallachians, Cossacks and even the Serbs had a hand in helping against the Turkish assault. But they never held out entirely against the Islamic yoke. Although, they did indeed help, they simply weren’t the driving force, in my opinion, that Poland was.

Of course, I’m not Polish, I’m a Spaniard. Viva España!

Of course, it would be wrong of me to say that Hungary did nothing in the face of Islam. Even I know that’s not true. It would still be prudent to give them their due credit, afterall, you know what the good book says,“Give credit where credit is due.” (I can’t find the verse, but if someone might back me up on that, that would be great)

CGDouglas:

Yes, it still is. 45,000 in 300 million is rather small.

And approx 980,000,000 world wide out of an number of 7 billion doesn’t warrant any impression either.

Why are there so many atheists???

 

[Pork_Roll]

Why do these atheists focus so much energy attacking the church? With all of the irrational harmful religions out there, why do they hate the church which has done so much good for mankind?

They should take their atheistic rage to Saudi Arabia and wage a public campaign against Islam. I’d like to see how that goes for them. Or for that matter, the religion known as communism. They should wage war against the Chinese government in China. I’m sure they would be received well and treated fairly in either case.

 

[Dale_M]

They should take their atheistic rage to Saudi Arabia and wage a public campaign against Islam. I’d like to see how that goes for them. Or for that matter, the religion known as communism. They should wage war against the Chinese government in China. I’m sure they would be received well and treated fairly in either case.

They are protesting the influence of the Catholic Church in Spain, where they live. Why would they want to travel to foreign countries to protest policies which do not affect them?

 

[lynx]

From your own link:
(0.4%) positively claim to be atheist
That’s miniscule.

From my own link

A 2004 BBC poll showed the number of people in the US who don’t believe in a god to be about 9%.[7]

A 2008 Gallup poll showed that a smaller 6% of the US population believed that no god or universal spirit exists.[26]

Atheism is more prevalent in Canada than in the United States, with 19–30% of the population holding an atheistic or agnostic viewpoint.

When it comes to the USA, being indifferent I would say is similar to agnostic/atheist. Maybe I should re-classify and say that ~15% of people hold no religion. As such, the same issues about Christian guided morality arise for this 15%.

Atheist states systematically targeted religious believers for extermination, especially clerics, because they are a threat to state atheism.

Atheism ideology does not care about the state of atheism in a populace. Unlike Christianity, proselytizing is not mandated by the book of atheism If someone is looking to spread atheism at the end of a sword it’s because of some other ideology, not a non-belief.

Hitler is Christian ad aternum because he was validly baptized. That doesn’t mean he didn’t reject Christianity or exploit it for political gains, the historical evidence is clear that he did.

Intent doesn’t matter to you. If it did, you would recognize the that atheism has no intent to be violent or convert others. If Christianity had not existed then it would not have been exploited as a core for Nazism. Much like if Atheism had not existed it would not have been exploited as a core for communism.

 

[lynx]

True, but at the very most this would make him a Catholic by Catholic standards, which makes it odd for some atheists to try to use it as ammunition against Catholicism, because as far as they’re concerned baptism is a meaningless ritual, and he was not a Catholic by belief, and so should be considered one by anyone who does not believe in Catholic baptism. The exact nature of Hitler’s religious belief is of course highly speculative, as he regulatly contradicted himself, his own statements veering from advocating some contorted form of Christianity, to outright anti-Christian atheism. No one can say what exactly he was.

My aim was to relate how an otherwise peaceful ideology can be used as a tool for evil. Whether or not Hitler adhered himself to those rules are irrelevant to me.

On the flip side, no one ever did a good deed for atheism. As for Nazism and religion, that is an incredibly complex subject. But there were numerous anti-Christian atheists among the Nazi elite (Martin Bormann being the most notable), there were neopagans, and there were Christians, of sorts. Many devout Christians were also among the most committed opponents of Nazism. Nazism was a ultimately secular political ideology, and to tether it to a theological point of view is somewhat dubious in my opinion.

Certainly, the goal of Hitler was to later begin abolishing or twisting religion to control the masses. Regardless, was Christianity responsible for the murders of Jews? Was any atheistic component of Nazism responsible for the murder of Jews? Or, were both aspects, Christianity and Atheism, used as tools to push a murderous ideology?

I think this kind of debate is always doomed to go astray, because is virtually impossible ascribe particular crimes to a religion or a lack of religion.

But it doesn’t stop people here from bashing another beliefs, or lack thereof Some people here love that “us” vs “them” mentality, at which point all civility towards an opposing view is tossed out the window. Where is the Christian charity and tolerance?

 

[lynx]

Of course they’re associated with that ideology, Atheism is a key component of Marxism. No one kills for atheism, they just tend to kill for their own needs because they don’t tend to believe in a higher moral or absolute moral system.

Why don’t all kill people we don’t agree with? Why am I, and some atheists, opposed to the death penalty? If we can only act with regards to our feelings and concerns then how can we prosper in society? Your logic is flawed.

Care to specifically link Christianity with Nazism by manifestos? Marx did it, Hitler did not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity#In_Nazi_ideology

The Bible tells us not to, what tells the Atheist not to?

Cultural societal obligations, personal observations, and rule of law. Culturally, it is looked down upon for me to kill someone, for just about any reason. From personal observation, I can see that murdering another for personal gain can lead to long term punishments both physical and psychological. Get the idea? There are sources for morality outside of religion if you see them as such.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

[=1"]Atheists Announce Public Campaign Against Catholics]("http://www.intoleranceagainstchristians.eu/index.php?id=573&user_extmininews_pi1[detailid)
April 2011: In a broadcasting interview by ELA radio, in Madrid, a group of people who identified themselves as “representatives of different atheist groups”, expressed openly that their goals are to “punish” the Catholic belief, and to “damage” the views of Catholics. They praised the burning of churches in 1936, and they expressed their intention to “welcome” the Pope “as he deserves”, during the announced visit to Madrid in the summer of 2011.

Listen to the full interview here: radioela.org/spip.php?article173
…
FYI: The radio interview is in Spanish as the article is from an EU source.

What do you* expect from the (possibly unknowing) servants of the Enemy?

*by “you”, I mean you all, not the OP