Atheists' 'hate' sign blasted in lawsuit

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Fallacy? …I don’t see it… maybe the problem is different understandings of the term “religion”. My wife (an anthropologist and a pagan) also considers “atheism” a religion, but like many “catholic” persons the religious label may not apply. Anyway, I bet there are already a few hundred threads on this topic elsewhere on the forum, yes? Since it’s kinda off the OP, I’ll let you have the last word on it (if you reply), and we can let it go 🙂
I’ll just say that invoking your wife’s opinion, (appeal to authority), doesn’t cut it with me. She can speak for herself, and you can speak for yourself. We can discuss the broader sense of the term “religion”, (so broad that it includes atheists), in another thread.
 
To me, religion does harden hearts and enslave minds. That’s my opinion. However, you have every right to believe as you do. I have no desire to take that away from you. There’s a huge difference between disagreement/dissent, and seeking to destroy. I hope people can make the distinction and not blur the lines.
It’s interesting that my religion is all about freeing one’s mind from ignorance. Faith is not blind in Buddhism. The Buddha said we must test his teachings like we test gold.
 
To me, religion does harden hearts and enslave minds.
It’s interesting that you say this whenever the path presented by the Buddha is actually a path towards freeing one’s mind from ignorance and enslavement to this world. He even said that we should not practice his teachings out of mere respect for him but only after testing them for ourselves. As we test gold to see if it is real or fool’s gold, so too are we to test his teachings for themselves.

So, you’re objection to religion, I find peculiar. If this is the belief that makes you happy, though, then I should not object.
 
I’ll just say that invoking your wife’s opinion, (appeal to authority), doesn’t cut it with me. She can speak for herself, and you can speak for yourself. We can discuss the broader sense of the term “religion”, (so broad that it includes atheists), in another thread.
Sorry, still giving you last word, just explaining that I did not mean to “invoke” my wife’s opinion as an “appeal to authority”, but rather as a tiny demonstration that the view of atheism as a religion is not uncommon, and the “broader sense” may not be as broad as you think. The phrase “doesn’t cut it” is pretty insulting, since you don’t know either of us nor what our “opinions” are based upon. I could list scholarly works (or just dictionary definitions) which support the view in depth, but instead I’ll just ask you if you would please tone down the pretension (at least regarding my wife).😉
 
Sorry, still giving you last word, just explaining that I did not mean to “invoke” my wife’s opinion as an “appeal to authority”, but rather as a tiny demonstration that the view of atheism as a religion is not uncommon, and the “broader sense” may not be as broad as you think. The phrase “doesn’t cut it” is pretty insulting, since you don’t know either of us nor what our “opinions” are based upon. I could list scholarly works (or just dictionary definitions) which support the view in depth, but instead I’ll just ask you if you would please tone down the pretension (at least regarding my wife).😉
Sorry for the miscommunication. I have no intentions of be insulting or pretentious with you.

Like I said before, I’m quite familiar with the “atheism is a religion” fallacy. We can spin our wheels over this in another thread if you like.
 
Sorry for the miscommunication. I have no intentions of be insulting or pretentious with you.
Thanks. No worries then 👍
Like I said before, I’m quite familiar with the “atheism is a religion” fallacy. We can spin our wheels over this in another thread if you like.
Thanks for the offer, and I promise I’ll keep an open mind on the subject. But rather than get into a new thread on the topic, I think I’ll search the forum for previous threads dealing with it and see what others have offered. No need for us to both go spinning wheels and repeating points of the debate if those same points are at our finger-tips, there for us to sift 😛
Well, I’m off to attend to other tasks which I have been neglecting!
 
Thanks for the offer, and I promise I’ll keep an open mind on the subject. But rather than get into a new thread on the topic, I think I’ll search the forum for previous threads dealing with it and see what others have offered. No need for us to both go spinning wheels and repeating points of the debate if those same points are at our finger-tips, there for us to sift 😛
Well, if you’ve been on message boards for more than a few years, you know that pretty much any topic which comes to mind, has already been discussed before. Exceptions are rare. Can you imagine if it was all sorted into a few dozen tera-threads?!? :rotfl:
Well, I’m off to attend to other tasks which I have been neglecting!
Get it done. 👍
 
It’s interesting that you say this whenever the path presented by the Buddha is actually a path towards freeing one’s mind from ignorance and enslavement to this world. He even said that we should not practice his teachings out of mere respect for him but only after testing them for ourselves. As we test gold to see if it is real or fool’s gold, so too are we to test his teachings for themselves.
Actually, I like that approach. And, I like the fact that your religion doesn’t have a “mission” to subjugate the entire planet to your way of beliefs/thinking. A lot can be said for that! 👍
So, you’re objection to religion, I find peculiar. If this is the belief that makes you happy, though, then I should not object.
This doesn’t make me happy. Its more frustrating than anything else.

Also, yours is an exception to the rule.
 
Before anyone goes off and starts a new thread on the subject of “atheism as a religion”, I’d like to interject, though my interjection, I assure you, is not one likely to inflame the argument, just a suggestion of a possibility.

It is my belief that the category of “religion” is entirely meaningless in this debate. The idea that there are certain beliefs or groups that are categorized as “religious” pr pertaining to a “religion” (I’ll stop using quotes henceforth) is only pertinent for political and perhaps some cultural debates. But with theological, moral, or philosophical issues, the category is meaningless, as it is completely culturally constructed.

I think that most religious people, and I hope that most nonreligious people, can understand that for a person who sincerely believes in, say, Christianity, that the essential tenets of Christianity (God exists, was incarnated in Christ, rose from the dead, etc.) are not religious beliefs; they are simply truths. There is no more reason to call them religious beliefs than to call the beliefs that firearms should be outlawed, that murder is immoral, or even that evolution is a valid theory, religious beliefs. One may counter that, in fact, religious beliefs do have inherent commonalities, like that they all pertain to the nature of a deity. However, for a sincere Christian, pretty much everything they believe, about morality, politics, even philosophy and science, pertain, in some way, to their fundamental worldview, their belief in the truth of Christianity. Most, if not all people, have certain fundamental (what we may call “philosophical”) beliefs that they either believe or presuppose that lay at the core of all other beliefs.

So I would argue that the assertion that certain beliefs are religious is not at all based on observation of the nature of the beliefs. It is merely a sociological phenomenon. Our society has, for historical and cultural reasons, ascribes certain commonly held beliefs to the category of religion, not for any fundamentally logical reasons.

So when one asks, “is atheism a religion?”, the question can only be answered by observing the cultural influence of atheism on those who believe it. I would say that the more a group of atheists share a common identity, and common beliefs outside of their atheism, the more they begin to constitute what could be called a religion, or a philosophy, or a worldview, words which are ultimately really interchangeable. I would note, for example, that literary critic Terry Eagleton, in his criticism of Richard Dawkins, observes that Dawkins is not merely an Atheist, but that he belongs to an “ideology” (another interchangeable): he is not merely a disbeliever in God, he is a western, liberal, humanist, rationalist atheist; and in his book, he shows clear signs of this by assuming a variety of common beliefs: atheists support abortion, atheists support gay rights, atheists support liberal democracy, atheists believe in the existence of morality, and many others.

To be sure, the fact that one does not believe in a deity does not mean that one necessarily belongs to a sociological group called a religion (like secular humanism or atheistic Marxism), just as the fact that one who believes that Christ rose from the dead does not necessarily belong to such a category (Terry Eagleton, I believe, considers himself to be a Christian-Marxist, a contradiction in terms to most “religious” people). There are, I think, atheist religions, and ones that define themselves by their atheism.

We should keep in mind, of course, that the category of religion is a concept invented by human beings, and it is the cultural context of a belief or set of beliefs that determine whether or not is belongs to this category, not some objective philosophical truth.
 
I have no opinion on whether this is “hate” or not but lets just reverse the words and put it up on a government building for all to read.

At this Holy time of celebrating Christ’s birthday, let reason prevail. Attempts to show there are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell are based on a 19th century philosophy deriving from the failed concept of scientific materialism which has shown itself to harden hearts and enslave minds and has created some of the most terrible persecutions in the history of man.

Opinion, fair enough, or would there be objections calling Christians hateful and wanting its removal ?

Again, i ask rather than make the assumption on what people think.
 
At this Holy time of celebrating Christ’s birthday, let reason prevail. Attempts to show there are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell are based on a 19th century philosophy deriving from the failed concept of scientific materialism which has shown itself to harden hearts and enslave minds and has created some of the most terrible persecutions in the history of man.

Opinion, fair enough, or would there be objections calling Christians hateful and wanting its removal ?

Again, i ask rather than make the assumption on what people think.
it’s been awhile since philosophy 101 for me but i’m pretty sure atheism predates the 19th century

@skeptic, good luck making headway by pointing out the “argument from authority” objection around here lol
 
Substitute black, or gay, or women, or Chinese for religion and just see how far you can go with this…

You would be pilloried…Its always safe to bash Christians and tell them to get to the back of the bus isn’t it?
 
Substitute black, or gay, or women, or Chinese for religion and just see how far you can go with this…

You would be pilloried…Its always safe to bash Christians and tell them to get to the back of the bus isn’t it?
you’re right it’s a slippery slope, we wouldn’t want to go back to the days in this country when christians were kept as slaves, or forbidden to immigrate, or used to build railroads then driven out of town, or lynched for mixing with non christians…
 
I don’t know if you are jesting but read how the Irish were treated when they came here…No Irish need apply was a very common saying

Catholics were forbidden to practice their religion in some areas, and even under FDR the man he appointed for the potion of Attorney General was a bigot and tried to make it illegal for Catholic to have their own schools

The nuns came here to educate poor immigrant children because many times they weren’t welcome in schools

This country as late as the 1960’s were trying to stop a catholic from being elected as president…in the 1960’s Bishop Sheen had a cross burned in his from yard for daring to build a maternity hospital in the south for black ladies

There is a very ugly history of treatment of Catholics in this country by the KKK…we are always fair game it seems
 
in my reading the original sign did not refer specifically to irish or catholics, and your post said “it’s always safe to bash Christians,” again with no mention of more specific issues pertaining to the irish or catholics.
 
good point. the orginal post is also clearly talking about a triangular shaped sign, i mean they are signs aren’t they?
and you make some good points. my irish catholic grandparents had it way worse than black people their age. you should have seen what happened when they tried to sit at the “non-catholics only” lunch counter. based on that we should totally get outraged by this hate sign.
 
Perhaps you only see suffering in a very limited view…Many Irish came here as indentured servants during the potato famine

Just because they are white doesn’t mean they weren’t ill treated and abused…every ethnic group seems to pick on the others when they arrived here

There is no point trying to converse with someone that only wants to mock others sorrows

Read about the things suffered by Mother Seton and the girls she tried to teach…They were attacked just because they were Catholic Christians trying to have a school

Bishop Sheen’s car was attacked in the !960’s with him inside

Ever see the kinds of things that are posted about the Pope? Pure filth
 
it’s been awhile since philosophy 101 for me but i’m pretty sure atheism predates the 19th century

@skeptic, good luck making headway by pointing out the “argument from authority” objection around here lol
My view is that the invention of ‘supernatural’ came later in our development. Before that, we just remained baffled and confused over natural phenomena and events. Lack of belief in god(s) has been around for as long as humans have been around, and longer. It is my strong opinion that the whole ‘supernatural’ paradigm was a human invention to help us cope with things like death or illness of family/clan/tribal members, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, hurricanes, illnesses caused by micro-organisms, and whole slew of natural phenomenon we had no clue about. The human mind is a remarkable thing, isn’t it?

BTW, I’m glad you picked up on the Argument from Authority reference. 👍
 
it’s been awhile since philosophy 101 for me but i’m pretty sure atheism predates the 19th century
Yes, of course atheism predates the 19th century. No one is saying is doesn’t.
Scientific materialism (on which popular modern atheism is based) is of course another matter - but we are getting off thread.

The question is whether the amended wording is hateful or not.
 
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