Atheists - I am going to try something

[Hellisreal]

If you dont mind another suggestion . . .

I was thinking of a U2 song Bad where he sings “If I could, through myself, set your spirit free” and thats what your trying to do and its totally admirable and a good friend.

The answer to her is to let it go, the things that bind her down, you would but cant, she needs to, but she needs to get to that place.

If shes mad at God tell her to tell Him that, have it out, challenge Him. Hes big and can take it, and when shes finished, if shes honest, she will realise He does have big shoulders. Sometimes we dont think God understands or knows our problems, But He does, Jesus wept right?

You are so right, this would be what I would do I think. I would yell at God everyday until I could not yell anymore!
But, this happened many years ago, and she did all this, so:shrug:

 

[Mirdath]

Whether or not your friend is ‘really’ an atheist, she is lucky to have such a caring friend as you are. She needs your comfort if she is in pain, and you can be comforting (and respectful of her and yourself) without belief/unbelief in a deity coming into it.

That said, if you’d like a little taste of what it’s like to live as a nontheist, maybe try temporarily joining a religious internet forum (I’m naming no names here) as one. If you do this, be prepared to do a good bit of research and self-inquiry while often having interesting, sharp questions lobbed at you, and occasionally saddening opprobrium heaped upon you. I can’t recommend it without a few reservations, especially if you’d feel you had to seriously misrepresent yourself to do so. (I don’t think that would be entirely necessary, but I can’t know that!)

You might very well learn a great deal about the roles of faith and compassion in your life, and gain a little understanding of what must be a nearly unimaginable mindset to most who do have religious faith, plus it’s an intellectual workout too. It wouldn’t be the same as being a nontheist, nor would it in any way be compromising your faith (as far as I know, anyway), but seeing the world from a minority’s point of view can be instructive on its own, I think… Walking a mile in another’s flipflops and all that.

 

[Hellisreal]

Whether or not your friend is ‘really’ an atheist, she is lucky to have such a caring friend as you are. She needs your comfort if she is in pain, and you can be comforting (and respectful of her and yourself) without belief/unbelief in a deity coming into it.

That said, if you’d like a little taste of what it’s like to live as a nontheist, maybe try temporarily joining a religious internet forum (I’m naming no names here) as one. If you do this, be prepared to do a good bit of research and self-inquiry while often having interesting, sharp questions lobbed at you, and occasionally saddening opprobrium heaped upon you. I can’t recommend it without a few reservations, especially if you’d feel you had to seriously misrepresent yourself to do so. (I don’t think that would be entirely necessary, but I can’t know that!)

You might very well learn a great deal about the roles of faith and compassion in your life, and gain a little understanding of what must be a nearly unimaginable mindset to most who do have religious faith, plus it’s an intellectual workout too. It wouldn’t be the same as being a nontheist, nor would it in any way be compromising your faith (as far as I know, anyway), but seeing the world from a minority’s point of view can be instructive on its own, I think… Walking a mile in another’s flipflops and all that.

Thank you Mirdath, your words ring with wisdom and I appreciate your kind words about me. The fact of the matter is, she is a sweetie. I wouldnt be as gung ho if I thought she wasn’t. Some people we meet in life really make a difference and make us happy to all be sharing the world together! She is that person. Always doing stuff for others.

I dont know if I am totally ready for a bash fest but, I see what you mean about the internet fourums you mentioned. It would be a way to gain insights. I think I can gear up for that.
Again, thanks and hope to see you around on the forums!

 

[happygal]

Although i aim a Catholic, but my suggestion to you, Is NO…
Apparently she hates God so much, meaning you cannot evangelize to her now. What you need to do now, is CARE AND CARE more for her. Be there for her, spend time with her, try to meet her practical needs…etc…etc…
When the time is near (although i don’t know how long) then you can starts sharing with her again.

I encountered the similar situation like you before, so i have to say. Be more patient…let God slowly work upon her via you.

 

[Hellisreal]

Although i aim a Catholic, but my suggestion to you, Is NO…
Apparently she hates God so much, meaning you cannot evangelize to her now. What you need to do now, is CARE AND CARE more for her. Be there for her, spend time with her, try to meet her practical needs…etc…etc…
When the time is near (although i don’t know how long) then you can starts sharing with her again.

I encountered the similar situation like you before, so i have to say. Be more patient…let God slowly work upon her via you.

Thanks happy gal, but i never mention religion, she knows I am Catholic and that is it. And, I never planned on telling her about my little plan anyway, she would have never known. Unless she would have asked me like: how was mass? Then the gig would have been up. Somehow though,. I dont think she will ask me that!

 

[happygal]

Thanks happy gal, but i never mention religion, she knows I am Catholic and that is it. And, I never planned on telling her about my little plan anyway, she would have never known. Unless she would have asked me like: how was mass? Then the gig would have been up. Somehow though,. I dont think she will ask me that!

Hi Hellisreal

Oh i see, she needs time to heal her wound and hurt, thus she really needs alot of care , concern and love from those around her.
Do your Godly work to her…give her more more love…
God bless you my dear frez

 

[Hellisreal]

Hi Hellisreal

Oh i see, she needs time to heal her wound and hurt, thus she really needs alot of care , concern and love from those around her.
Do your Godly work to her…give her more more love…
God bless you my dear frez

Nice to meet you happygal. What a name!
But what about mine?

LOL

 

[Kitty_Chan]

You are so right, this would be what I would do I think. I would yell at God everyday until I could not yell anymore!
But, this happened many years ago, and she did all this, so:shrug:

so she did yell and I guess it went nowhere? just want to make sure I got you right

When you answered back a couple you said if you did that, if she asked you “How was Mass” then the gig would be up.

Something hit me then.

Please consider she finds comfort in you going to Mass and believing, she may not admit that but its a part of you she likes. As a matter of fact I would hazard a guess “you” are not the only thing she likes about your friendship. Its Someone else hanging around by you and she can feel Him.

Once again even if she wont admit it. She could be crushed if you were to leave God, even for her. She needs strength yours and His.

 

[Hellisreal]

so she did yell and I guess it went nowhere? just want to make sure I got you right

When you answered back a couple you said if you did that, if she asked you “How was Mass” then the gig would be up.

Something hit me then.

Please consider she finds comfort in you going to Mass and believing, she may not admit that but its a part of you she likes. As a matter of fact I would hazard a guess “you” are not the only thing she likes about your friendship. Its Someone else hanging around by you and she can feel Him.

Once again even if she wont admit it. She could be crushed if you were to leave God, even for her. She needs strength yours and His.

wow. I feel a lot of pressure now.

Lord, Help me so I dont fail in front of her, and if I do, help me to deal with it the way that pleases you.

Thank you so much, I think…

I better not blow this.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

you will be fine, your heart is in the right place, let Him speak through you, dont plan anything, if there is something to be said the words will come.

 

[Nepenthe]

You’re her friend, so I don’t feel too far off in saying, you’re doing fine.

Keep on being that. My posts and Mirdath’s may be considered roughly equivocal. I just joined, but Mirdath and I tend to think generally (even frighteningly) alike. To be perfectly honest, Mirdath’s last post to this thread was…well…me, though either of us would have said the same

Uh…glad to meet you!.

 

[Hellisreal]

You’re her friend, so I don’t feel too far off in saying, you’re doing fine.

Keep on being that. My posts and Mirdath’s may be considered roughly equivocal. I just joined, but Mirdath and I tend to think generally (even frighteningly) alike. To be perfectly honest, Mirdath’s last post to this thread was…well…me, though either of us would have said the same

Uh…glad to meet you!.

Glad to meet you too!

I am sure I will come back if I run into anything that I dont know how to handle.

Everyone here has been very helpful to me and I really appreciate it.

Thank you

 

[Greg27]

If your faith gives you spiritual health and peace, then you should go. I myself have stopped going to church because I need to reconsider my faith after I found I deeply disagreed with something the Pope said a Catholic must believe (basically all non-Catholic religions are gravely deficient in terms of salvation; I believe all religions are paths to God). I could no longer go to the church with a good conscience, and when that happens, you have to leave until it is resolved. I believe it is the same with your friend; she has to be given time to resolve the problems in her conscience, otherwise she is better off in my view staying outside of the church.

 

[Hellisreal]

If your faith gives you spiritual health and peace, then you should go. I myself have stopped going to church because I need to reconsider my faith after I found I deeply disagreed with something the Pope said a Catholic must believe (basically all non-Catholic religions are gravely deficient in terms of salvation; I believe all religions are paths to God). I could no longer go to the church with a good conscience, and when that happens, you have to leave until it is resolved. I believe it is the same with your friend; she has to be given time to resolve the problems in her conscience, otherwise she is better off in my view staying outside of the church.

Hello Greg!

Oh, I think you got the quote wrong. That is not how I understand it.
In fact, there is a special section in the CCC for Muslims and the Jewish People who God never revoked his covenant with!

I am ill prepared to do apologetics today, my mind is too hazy from being in the heat all day with NO AIR CONDITIONING!

Please dont go away without the facts first. This could be a huge misunderstanding! Granted, thats not to say you will not find other things troubling, I can be honest and say, its not for everyone.

But, If you dont mind I need to bring someone else in on this. Normally I would try to address it myself but I am beat. It takes a lot out of me to get fired up for a topic like this.

I can try to PM another Catholic I think can get this one solved quick if they are online, or if anyone reading this thread would like to feel free to derail it if you wish so Greg can get the facts.

I’ll try to find someone Greg, hang on. If the mods decide to shut it for derailment PM me or start a thread in the Apologetics on it.

I dont mind if you still need to stay away, but do it with the facts, that would only be fair?

I’ll be back Greg - or continue to ask if we cant do it here.

 

[Hellisreal]

Hang in there Greg, I am asking for help.

 

[dulcissima]

If your faith gives you spiritual health and peace, then you should go. I myself have stopped going to church because I need to reconsider my faith after I found I deeply disagreed with something the Pope said a Catholic must believe (basically all non-Catholic religions are gravely deficient in terms of salvation; I believe all religions are paths to God). I could no longer go to the church with a good conscience, and when that happens, you have to leave until it is resolved. I believe it is the same with your friend; she has to be given time to resolve the problems in her conscience, otherwise she is better off in my view staying outside of the church.

What have you done to seek out more information about your disagreement with what the Pope said? Have you looked at what the Catechism teaches on the matter? Here are a couple of paragraphs that deal with those areas you seem to have a problem with. Maybe you can let us know specifically what it is that you disagree with.

816
"The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268

843
The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”

 

[Hellisreal]

Thank you Dulcissima!

I feel like I can go to sleep now. :tiphat:

 

[dulcissima]

Thank you Dulcissima!

I feel like I can go to sleep now. :tiphat:

You know, I almost never even go on the apologetics forum, I am mostly a family life poster. I really can’t figure out why you PM’d me (or did you PM everyone?).

 

[Hellisreal]

You know, I almost never even go on the apologetics forum, I am mostly a family life poster. I really can’t figure out why you PM’d me (or did you PM everyone?).

I could not find any of the posters I knew. I remembered a post of yours and the name clicked with me (I post all over) and I PMd one other poster who I have seen does good stuff. You got here first. As long as it got done. I feel a lot cooler now. DH got the one window unit going upstairs. I came down to make sure everything was AOK down here. Its late, most of the posters I know who do this kind of thing post earlier. I did not really intend for this thread to be apologetic in nature anyway.

 

[Mirdath]

Is there any need for the more-difficult sort of apologetics, where your friendship and you desire to understand others are concerned? If your god is omniscient, and loving, I’d say your in good hands. I have no such divine assurance, but I still know trust and peace – and I hope that helps as well.

Whoops, that’s actually me, Nepenthe posting, but same difference, as we say in the Midwest!