Atheists More Irrational than Religious in U.S.A.

[Hobble]

Are you a vegetarian? Do you believe in speciesism and that perhaps Humanity is a curse on Earth and that the sooner Humans are extinguished from this earth, the better Mother Earth will be? There are quite a number of misanthropic, people-hating people who believe this quackery that all humans bad, animals beautiful. After all, they are all so fuzzy and cute and lovable unlike mean Frank up the street.

Is the difference between humans and animals a difference in kind or degree? Which has more value in your universe: a) that cute, beautiful border collie who is so intelligent, or b) the virtually immobile ill baby with Down’s syndrome and other illnesses whose hopes of living a full life are low?

Hobble, do you believe in euthanasia for the extremely sick, elderly, or born sick? After all I take it your opinion of humans is not too high if you seem to equate our “value” with the value of an animal.

Finally, do you believe that my sick, epileptic, developmentally challenged neigbor’s kid who passed away not too long ago suffered tremendously in this life because of bad karma he made in some hypothetical past life?
Christianity has one answer for his suffering, Buddhism and Hinduism an entirely different one - which one meets with your approval?

Well first of all, I’m not a Buddhist, a Hindu, or a Christian, so I don’t completely a agree with any of them, every religion seems to have a lot of political cluture which separates them, but stripped down to their basic philosophies they teach very similar things. The political clutter is what keeps me away from religions, besides we don’t need to belong to a church in order to become enlightened, in some cases a church may help to slow the process in fact.

No, I don’t believe that humans are a curse on the earth, I don’t believe in curses or magic for that matter. I do think our species has been largely irresponsible by nearly using up all of our resources (hence the locust). As a species we are the most intelligent on this planet, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t immature, we still do quite a lot stupid things.

I am not a vegetarian, I do not have a firm opinion on reincarnation or karma, it is something I do not know yet (if I ever will). I do believe in the eternal spirit, but probably not in the same way that you do.

Everything on this planet serves a very important purpose, and we are all part of the same collective energy. We could serve a very important purpose, we have the ability and the intellect to protect our planet, but instead we have been destroying it for a very long time.
I am not saying we should not eat meat, or that we should live outside, but we don’t need to push things as far as we do, we create much more waste than we need to. hopefully soon we will start to realize our place in the big picture and start acting more consciously and lovingly. Jesus was a very conscious and loving person, if the people who subscribe to his teachings actually followed them we’d be a lot better off.

 

[Hobble]

I think you similarly misunderstand heaven as it is in Christianity and as it is in Buddhism. The entire concept of Buddhist Nirvana, as in the extinguishing of oneself as one blows out a candle, constitutes in the Pope’s words an unacceptable “negative soteriology”. Nirvana and its self-defeating (literally) goal is entirely alien to the concept of being in God’s Love in Heaven.

Similarly on your points in Hell. The Catholic Church has never authoritatively stated how many or which human specifically is in Hell. The Church leaves this entirely in God’s hands at the same time that it pronounces in the Catechism that we are to hope, as Christ taught, for the Salvation of all souls.

The Buddha described Nirvana as a state of mind, not an afterlife. Nirvana is the highest level of conscious vibration. For instance, Jesus was near or in the nirvana plain. In my opinion these levels of conscious vibration is where the concepts of heaven and hell (in all religions) comes from, but as with anything over time the ideas are understoof differently, some people believe that there is a real place where you burn for eternity, but in doing so are putting themselves into a lower vibration (fear). Ancient religions were used symbolism in their mythology to describe concepts, I don’t Christianity is any different, it’s just been interpretted literally for some reason.

 

[josie_L]

**Finally, do you believe that my sick, epileptic, developmentally challenged neigbor’s kid who passed away not too long ago suffered tremendously in this life **because of bad karma he made in some hypothetical past life?Christianity has one answer for his suffering, Buddhism and Hinduism an entirely different one - which one meets with your approval?

Oh Andrew you made me cry, how old was he?

 

[rcscwc]

I mean the philosophies that Jesus teaches, like non-violence, love your enemy, non materialism, all come from buddhism. Heaven and hell seem to be based on many philosophies from buddhism, hinduism, and some paganism about plains of consciousness and karma, except Christians seem to interperet them slightly differently. What I find interesting also is how the beliefs (starting back with the old testament) changed so much always adopting what beliefs were popular at the time, yet contradicting itself in the process.

I just don’t get why it can be considered as the “true religion” when it’s just a mixture of ideas from other religions dumbed down. And looking at the way it’s been used for most of it’s existence as a tool for control, it just seems like a big scam.

There is one radical difference. Hinduism does not have eternal hell or heaven. Law of Karma allows repeated chances to reform oneself. In fact the ultimate aim of Hinduism is not to attain heaven but Liberation, which transcends heaven.

Non violene etc are age old Niyamas of Hindui/Buddhist faiths.

 

[rcscwc]

I have some works of Plato and Aristotle. Can you please point out to me where either of these Greeks spoke of the Incarnation, the Resurrection, Redemptive Suffering, the Eucharist?

Do you deny Augustine and Aquinas borrowed heavily from Plato and Aristotle respectively?

 

[KyivAndrew]

Oh Andrew you made me cry, how old was he?

Yes, incredibly sad. He was 39. An incredibly sad, hard life. I knew him from childhood.

 

[rcscwc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcscwc
We cremate and immerse the ashes in rivers. We do not preserve dead bodies. Period.

Do you also approve of forcibly throwing a living widowed wife onto the funeral pyre of her husband as Hindus have been known to do?

How do you link your rant with my post?

Do you approve of slaughters by Moses and Joshuas? Do you approve of murder of Hypatia by a man made saint?

Do you approve of slavery sanctioned by Aquinas? Or the idea that woman is a failed man?

Do you approve of crusades?

Do you approve of inquisitions sanctioned by Aquinas?

Do you approve of destruction of natives of Americas and Australia?

Do you approve of killing, burning etc of Hindus by jesuits?

Do you approve of Bruno’s burning and of countless number of “witches”?

 

[KyivAndrew]

Do you deny Augustine and Aquinas borrowed heavily from Plato and Aristotle respectively?

They didn’t “borrow” any ideas on Jesus Christ, the Incarnation, the Hypostatic Union, etc. from them. They made use of their philosophic methods and showed that theology and philosophy are not mutually exclusive. St. Augustine found use with Plato’s philosophic approach, St. Thomas Aquinas from Aristotle’s approach. But there is a world of difference from making use of someone’s philosophic reasoning and believing and arguing for Christianity and Jesus Christ and the Church. Let’s not miss the forest for the trees.

 

[rcscwc]

KyivAndrew , sympathise with that kid.

What caused his epikepsy? Demons, if you believe Aquinas. Or god on an irrational basis. Why did your god afflict him?

 

[Thedeadshadow]

Oh and may i ask what has religion done for us?

 

[josie_L]

Oh and may i ask what has religion done for us?

What has atheism done for us???

 

[KyivAndrew]

KyivAndrew , sympathise with that kid.

What caused his epikepsy? Demons, if you believe Aquinas. Or god on an irrational basis. Why did your god afflict him?

Well I don’t believe his epilepsy was caused by bad karma from a past life because I believe each soul unique in God’s eyes. I think that the belief in reincarnation came about as a means to explain suffering originally in India. I think the idea was already present among the native Dravidian population even before the Indo-Europeans migrated there and began the Four Vedas.

Suffering and the Cross are central to Christianity and we believe in Redemption and that each person is to carry his Cross and follow Christ. Suffering entered into the world through sin but will be conquered in the end by Jesus Christ. Perfect Love drives away all fear we are told. God is Love, not a Transpersonal Cosmic Law or Force. Suffering is one of the effects of God granting us all Free Will so that we are not mere automatons.

I understand Hinduism to be different. As for ranting, you came on this thread attacking Christianity hook, line, and sinker (fundie religion?) and got mad when some came to its defense. O.K. I cannot see how “ranting” further will serve any good as all we asked were questions of Hinduism.

 

[KyivAndrew]

O.K. sorry all. I want to see the conclusion to Blades of Glory or something like that (Canada’s answer to Dancing with the Stars).

 

[josie_L]

KyivAndrew , sympathise with that kid.

What caused his epikepsy? Demons, if you believe Aquinas. Or god on an irrational basis. Why did your god afflict him?

God did not afflict him, suffering is a part of life, i.e., no one can avoid it, however, God has revealed to us that our suffering is not in vain, it is in fact redemptive, and can be offered in a way that could help others.

 

[AndrewJaffery]

Oh and may i ask what has religion done for us?

What has atheism done for us???

I mean no offense, or anything…but, even though it was…maybe not the best and most concise of a question to ask, that may not be the best of ways to answer it, in my opinion anyways.

 

[yankee_doodle]

What has atheism done for us???

what should not believing something do for you?

 

[josie_L]

There are other aspects of Christianity which contradict themselves that come off as red alarms. Such as God being omniscience, yet we have free will, the two cancel each other out.

God endowed us with free will so that we may experience the greatest gift there is, love, therefore despite the suffering God knew we would endure, love more than made up for it, that is, love does truly conquer all (there is no evil that love cannot heal). That Hobble is an omniscient God.

 

[KyivAndrew]

There are other aspects of Christianity which contradict themselves that come off as red alarms. Such as God being omniscience, yet we have free will, the two cancel each other out.

Yeah, Josie is right on that one. I forgot to respond. Hobble you are conflating Divine Foreknowledge with Determinism - a common enough misunderstanding, even among Christians. God’s Omniscience is not mutually exclusive to us having Free Will.

 

[josie_L]

I mean no offense, or anything…but, even though it was…maybe not the best and most concise of a question to ask, that may not be the best of ways to answer it, in my opinion anyways.

Andrew, I’m getting heartily sick of people coming to CAF and posing such questions but offering no answers that could bridge our differences. Furthermore, it’s a valid question.

 

[yankee_doodle]

Yeah, Josie is right on that one. I forgot to respond. Hobble you are conflating Divine Foreknowledge with Determinism - a common enough misunderstanding, even among Christians. God’s Omniscience is not mutually exclusive to us having Free Will.

Isn’t there disagreement on this question even within Catholicism (i.e. Thomism versus Molinism)?