Atheists Rally Behind New Movie Thriller

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freethinker83 said:
Generalizing and saying that atheists have no moral compass is absurd. If that were true, why is it that atheists make up less than 1% of the US prison population while accounting for 2-10% of the US population (depending on which stats you look at)?
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Atheists can live moral lives because too, even though they don’t believe in God, have morality rooted from God’s goodness.
 
Well I, for one, have very happy that The Ledge did so poorly (although I do feel for the person(s) who have to deal with the horrendous debt they will occur). Positive portrayal of Atheism is fine, and perhaps is needed in certain circles. They could have done this very easily without resorting to demonizing Theists. Either the writers of the movie have a grudge against Theists (bad) or they aren’t good enough writers to show how one could be good without God without resorting to a Christian foil.

Actually, to be honest, if I was an Atheists I would want to distance myself from such a (sadly prevalent) belief just as I don’t want to be thought of as being related to WBC. Unfortunately, I can see more films of The Ledge’s ilk being brought to theaters near you.

As a last note, to any Athiest viewing this thread, do you feel that for the most part there is a strong prejudice against being an Atheist? Honestly, and perhaps it’s my location, I feel as if Atheism is more often than not celebrated while religion is something to be shied away from or kept hidden. If I hear being religious as a pejorative one more time… well I’m curious. Perhaps I’ll start another thread on this issue.
 
Mungling said:
As a last note, to any Athiest viewing this thread, do you feel that for the most part there is a strong prejudice against being an Atheist? Honestly, and perhaps it’s my location, I feel as if Atheism is more often than not celebrated while religion is something to be shied away from or kept hidden. If I hear being religious as a pejorative one more time… well I’m curious. Perhaps I’ll start another thread on this issue.
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I do feel there is some prejudice against atheists. I don’t think it is severe as you can’t tell someone is an atheist by looking at them or anything like that. I am concerned with attitudes that have the assumption of post #36 in this thread, that atheists have no morals. That seems to be a pretty widespread belief. In a recent polk poll atheists were also found to be the least trusted group in the US, and over 50% of people said they would not want their child marrying an atheist. These things do concern me slightly.

I don’t know much about this film, but I do not have a very good impression of it. I agree that there are much better ways to portray atheists in a positive light than this film.
 
mellowcalico said:
I think atheists have a moral compass–I think most of us are “born” with it to a certain extent and culture dictates the rest. Granted, our culture is Judeo/Christian in nature, so that influences the morals of atheists too. One atheist friend of mine went to Catholic school for years, in many ways he “acts Catholic” when it comes to morals.

As for the whole prison population thing, every single atheist I know (well, all four of them anyway) are college educated professionals. I think education has a lot to do with crime (or lack of education anyway). If nothing else, working professionals with educations can higher better lawyers if they get in trouble.

As for the movie, it sounded dull in general (religion or lack of religion aside). It seems like it would be a bunch of boring setup story followed by a two men giving monologues by a balcony with a woman crying in the background. If atheist activists wanted to make a movie to show themselves in a positive light towards Christians, a better movie would have been a Christian and an atheist who argued and hated each other and then had to depend on each other for something, becoming good friends and breaking down barriers. Although I suppose that would be a lot like the movie, “Enemy Mine.”
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You make some very good points. I agree with pretty much everything you say here.
 
freethinker83 said:
I do feel there is some prejudice against atheists. I don’t think it is severe as you can’t tell someone is an atheist by looking at them or anything like that. I am concerned with attitudes that have the assumption of post #36 in this thread, that atheists have no morals. That seems to be a pretty widespread belief. In a recent polk poll atheists were also found to be the least trusted group in the US, and over 50% of people said they would not want their child marrying an atheist. These things do concern me slightly.
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There is no consistent ethic among atheists…only an agreement that there is no God. You can’t expect society at large to trust atheists, as a group, when the group has no agreed upon morality. Also, it makes complete sense that a religious person wouldn’t want their child to marry an atheist. Why would they? I hope my sons and daughters marry practicing Catholics who are serious about their faith. 🤷
 
freethinker83 said:
I do feel there is some prejudice against atheists. I don’t think it is severe as you can’t tell someone is an atheist by looking at them or anything like that. I am concerned with attitudes that have the assumption of post #36 in this thread, that atheists have no morals. That seems to be a pretty widespread belief. In a recent polk poll atheists were also found to be the least trusted group in the US, and over 50% of people said they would not want their child marrying an atheist. These things do concern me slightly.

I don’t know much about this film, but I do not have a very good impression of it. I agree that there are much better ways to portray atheists in a positive light than this film.
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I agree with you in that respect. There are MUCH better ways of portraying atheism in films than this one. And without stereotypical, demonizing portrayals of orthodox Christians such as the one in the movie.👍
 
freethinker83 said:
I do feel there is some prejudice against atheists. I don’t think it is severe as you can’t tell someone is an atheist by looking at them or anything like that. I am concerned with attitudes that have the assumption of post #36 in this thread, that atheists have no morals. That seems to be a pretty widespread belief. In a recent polk poll atheists were also found to be the least trusted group in the US, and over 50% of people said they would not want their child marrying an atheist. These things do concern me slightly.

I don’t know much about this film, but I do not have a very good impression of it. I agree that there are much better ways to portray atheists in a positive light than this film.
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I could see how that could be concerning, although regarding the marriage statistic that may not so much prejudice against Atheists rather than concern about a marriage with mixed religious beliefs. Still I could see why Atheists would be interested in countering this image.

Some of this is likely due to the fact that (in my experience) vocal Atheists also tend to be vocally anti-theist. I would suspect the majority of atheists hold moderate views and are perfectly respectful of everyone the Atheists who stick in my mind happen to be the ones who have said (not in so many words) that theists are stupid, their beliefs are useless, and we’re responsible for all the world’s ill’s. Having positive portrayals of Atheists who don’t happen to subscribe to this view may do a lot of good, but doing so in the framework of a movie which holds the views of the radical Atheists I have described will not do any favors.
 
rlg94086 said:
There is no consistent ethic among atheists…only an agreement that there is no God. You can’t expect society at large to trust atheists, as a group, when the group has no agreed upon morality. Also, it makes complete sense that a religious person wouldn’t want their child to marry an atheist. Why would they? I hope my sons and daughters marry practicing Catholics who are serious about their faith. 🤷
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I disagree as far as the US is concerned. I think there is a pretty uniform ethic amongst Americans. Sure there are definitely some areas of difference, but we all more or less get along pretty well with eachother.

I understand your viewpoint of wanting your children to marry Catholics.
 
Mungling said:
I could see how that could be concerning, although regarding the marriage statistic that may not so much prejudice against Atheists rather than concern about a marriage with mixed religious beliefs. Still I could see why Atheists would be interested in countering this image.

Some of this is likely due to the fact that (in my experience) vocal Atheists also tend to be vocally anti-theist. I would suspect the majority of atheists hold moderate views and are perfectly respectful of everyone the Atheists who stick in my mind happen to be the ones who have said (not in so many words) that theists are stupid, their beliefs are useless, and we’re responsible for all the world’s ill’s. Having positive portrayals of Atheists who don’t happen to subscribe to this view may do a lot of good, but doing so in the framework of a movie which holds the views of the radical Atheists I have described will not do any favors.
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I agree with you for the most part. I’m not going to say I’ve never been involved in heated debates about religion, because I certianly have. I am not anti-theist though, and I never make personal attacks on those I’m debating with, although the issues we are talking about can get heated. I think sometimes one can come off as anti-theist when engaging in a debate. I’m not saying there are no anti-theist atheists, because there certainly are. At the same time there can also be militant theists who make their group look bad as well. Blanket statements like “atheists have no morals” certainly fall into this category IMO.

As someone else suggested, a better movie would show the friendship between an atheist and a Christian, or how the two can overcome their differences and get along, etc. Or there could be a documentary that leaves religion out entirely and shows positive contributions some famous atheists have made to society. For example, Bill Gates being very charitable.

I am definitely not anti-theist as most of the people who I love are Christians.
 
freethinker83 said:
I disagree as far as the US is concerned. I think there is a pretty uniform ethic amongst Americans. Sure there are definitely some areas of difference, but we all more or less get along pretty well with eachother.
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To a certain degree, you are correct, but trust is an individual thing. We don’t trust every American, do we? If all you know about someone is their belief, you have to draw a general conclusion. So, in a poll asking if you trust x group based on their belief, the American ethic doesn’t apply. A Christian’s ethic is ostensibly based on the Bible; a Muslim’s ethic on the Koran; Jew’s on the Talmud; etc. What is an atheist’s ethic based on? Answer: human reasoning with varying results. One atheist could be an “it’s okay as long as you don’t get caught” or “survival of the fittest” mentality.

I’m in sales. I can tell you from experience that an atheist salesman is more likely to rip you off to maximize his profit. I’ve worked with such people.
 
rlg94086 said:
I’m in sales. I can tell you from experience that an atheist salesman is more likely to rip you off to maximize his profit. I’ve worked with such people.
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I’m sorry for your negative experience. As I’m sure you will admit, Christians also sin, some more than others. The same is true of atheists, or any other people you group together.

I would personally never intentionally cheat someone. As an example, I was unloading my shopping cart into my car at Home Depot a few weeks ago. I realized that one item never made it onto the counter, and therefore for I was charged for it. I walked back into the store and paid for it. I didn’t do it because I feared the wrath of God or because I thought Home Depot would miss the $5 the item was worth; I did it because stealing is wrong, and this is universal across human society. I would have felt guilty had I just brought it home without paying for it.

What I am getting at is that it doesn’t matter if a person is a Christian, atheist, Muslim, or Jew. People in each of these groups follow a code of ethics to different degrees. It’s all individual and for the most part morality cannot be generalized by broad groups.
 
With due respect, this thread is not about atheism, but about this movie.
 
_Abyssinia said:
With due respect, this thread is not about atheism, but about this movie.
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Hollywood likes to portray priests et al. as heavies, as hypocrites. This film would seem to be–to use a term I recently saw–theophobic. Saw Bill Mara the other night and he was just ranting, ranting, ranting. Poor bastard.
 
freethinker83 said:
I agree with you for the most part. I’m not going to say I’ve never been involved in heated debates about religion, because I certianly have. I am not anti-theist though, and I never make personal attacks on those I’m debating with, although the issues we are talking about can get heated. I think sometimes one can come off as anti-theist when engaging in a debate. I’m not saying there are no anti-theist atheists, because there certainly are. At the same time there can also be militant theists who make their group look bad as well. Blanket statements like “atheists have no morals” certainly fall into this category IMO.

As someone else suggested, a better movie would show the friendship between an atheist and a Christian, or how the two can overcome their differences and get along, etc. Or there could be a documentary that leaves religion out entirely and shows positive contributions some famous atheists have made to society. For example, Bill Gates being very charitable.

I am definitely not anti-theist as most of the people who I love are Christians.
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Ever see the movie, “The Keys of the Kingdom.”? The leading role are a humble, even saintly Scottish priest, a haughty Austrian nun from a noble background, and the atheist doctor who is the priest’s best friend. The setting is a mission in China before WWII. Oddly enough, a key scene showing the nun confessing to the priest of her prejudice against him on account of his humble origins is missing from the dvd I saw recently. In its place is a totally inadequate admission on her part in the Church. The atheist friend is the wonderful character actor, Thomas Mitchell, full of his great charm. Edmund Gwynn plays the bishop who is his surrogate father, and Vincernt Price is another friend, a pround prelate who is the opposite of the humble priest. Love this film, as you can tell. 🙂
 
RobbyS said:
Ever see the movie, “The Keys of the Kingdom.”? The leading role are a humble, even saintly Scottish priest, a haughty Austrian nun from a noble background, and the atheist doctor who is the priest’s best friend. The setting is a mission in China before WWII. Oddly enough, a key scene showing the nun confessing to the priest of her prejudice against him on account of his humble origins is missing from the dvd I saw recently. In its place is a totally inadequate admission on her part in the Church. The atheist friend is the wonderful character actor, Thomas Mitchell, full of his great charm. Edmund Gwynn plays the bishop who is his surrogate father, and Vincernt Price is another friend, a pround prelate who is the opposite of the humble priest. Love this film, as you can tell. 🙂
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I haven’t heard of that film, but it might be worth watching. I’ll be honest, I haven’t had a good deal of exposure to that era of films.

I think another good example, although not about religion would be the characters Legolas and Gimli in “The Lord of the Rings”. The two come from vastly different cultures and do not care for each other much in the beginning. Later on they become great friends. This is shown in much greater detail in the book than in the movies. I think Gimli got short-changed in the movies as they seemed to use him for comic relief and not much else. I never really thought of those two in this way before, but this conversation sparked that thought.

Okay, back to the topic at hand. The title of the thread says “Atheists rally behind new movie thriller”. This atheist definitely doesn’t rally behind it. I do not feel that it shines a positive light on atheists and that it makes us look bitter and angry. Even if it had nothing to do with religion, I don’t think the plot sounds very good. I definitely won’t be seeing this.

As far as the film losing a good deal of money, I don’t take any joy in that. I don’t wish financial hardship upon anyone. I’ve certainly made a few bad financial decisions in my life and it wasn’t particularly enjoyable.
 
purplesunshine said:
I find it hysterical.

I mean the ONE thing that Christ got through to the people was “no greater love has a man then to give up his life for a friend”

so athiest or not the main character is acting under a princible that only Christ brought to the world.
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I laughed hysterically at this. Thank you for giving me entertainment for this rainy day.
 
I would rather see Conan the Barbarian, Shark Night, the Green Lantern and Colombiana in a row than sit thru “The Ledge”.
 
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