atheists : this is the best way to determine if god exists or not , a new way , see if it is right for yourselves dear friends ...

[John_Russell_Jr]

Should we carry this convo on elsewhere? i doubt this is what the OP was headed for.

But, a quick point…I highly doubt Vatican 1 had in mind anything other than Thomas’ five ways. I have no idea which arguments of the kinds you mentioned above you have in mind. From design there is the alleged signature in the cell, or Collins’ bayesian approach, or WLC’s disjunctive argument etc. From causality there are any number of the kalam’s, leibnizian’s, thomistic’s etc. From morality…don’t even get me started on how many axiological arguments there are lol. etc. Remember I was speaking about Vatican 1

… my dearest friend ,

… i want this to carry on , and i’m going to partiicipate in intellectual arguments too soon , so go ahead but remember experience of god is the greatest and most reliable proof god exists , and the intellect just backs this up , we’ll see faith and reason are in perfect union you can say in a sense , although they can also be separated , so go right ahead , i’m not unreasonable …

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[Perplexity]

Give **one **example.

I’m a little shocked you don’t think I can provide a single example lol. I wonder if you keep up with the literature produced by professional atheist philosophers of religion.

Alrighty though, here’s one.

(1) Everything that exists has an explanation of its existence either in the necessity of its own nature, or in some external cause.

(2) If the universe has an explanation of its existence, that explanation is God.

(3) The universe exists.

(4) The universe has an explanation of its existence. (1), (3)]

(5) The explanation of the universe’s existence is God. (2), (4)]

(1) is false. There exists the sum of all concrete things. By (1), this sum has an explanation of its existence either in its own necessity or in some external cause. It’s impossible that there be an external cause to this sum, therefore it must exist necessarily. But if the sum of all concrete things is necessary, then so are all of its members. Therefore, there are no contingent concrete things. Causal principles like these often have weird results when you think of counter-examples.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

It’s a pretty story but you seemed to have skipped over the part about the wife torturing the husband for all eternity if he should happen to upset her.

… my dear friend ,

… your right , if the man rejects his wife he will end up in hell for eternity , but the man chose this , the wife did not cause it or even send him to hell , if the man is massochistic and wants that suffering the wife can’t help him , but eternity is not the same as forever , eternity and eternities and eternal can end or come and go , but forever is a measue of time and cannot exist in eternity as in eternity there is no time , there is no beginning , end or middle – just " now " and all just " is " in " now " ,…

… and my personal belief is we will all get reality back eventually and all will be as they were – even hell will cease , it must as imperfection like evils cannot exist , as any imperfection in the creation is a reflection on the creator and if so he cannot exist , so we will get reality back and it’ll be like nothing went wrong , we takie our pre - fall existence prior to the fall and join it together with the instant we get realityh back and the messy middle ceases to exist and is forgotten , this is not catholic teaching but my personal theory , there’s masses more to it but this is a simple very quick overview …

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

quote=Perplexity;8398884]I’m a little shocked you don’t think I can provide a single example lol. I wonder if you keep up with the literature produced by professional atheist philosophers of religion.

Alrighty though, here’s one.

• … my dear friend ,
• … you misunderstand my q i;m afraid , how do i know any of this is true at all ??? , i cannot , how do i know you exist or even i’m not an angel dreaming this dialogue is going on , or i’m asleep ??? , how do i know anything is real and not just this ??? , you cannot prove it at all to me , i need faith to believe all this and everything for that matter bar the one thing i mention , read on for more explanation , this is not a silly argument , it simply shows the not only importance but necessity of faith and trust , which is the way god expects us to believe in him , and he does this because human beings must believe this way , to ask god to do otherwise is to ask giod to treat us inhumanely , he must deal with and treat us like human beings dearest friend , read and really think , not silly at all …

… all people know all and not just religious teachings by faith , this is because none of us can absolutely prove anything at all bar one thing – that we exist ourselves , and we can only prove this to ourself alone , we know this because we have experiences , we can’t prove who or what we are , we may be another being dreaming away that we’re having this human life etc , it’s true you know and a very misunderstood subject this faith , the normal modus operandi for all human belief is faith , not well known but true , we can still believe we have proof on the basis of our faith , and indeed humans can and must do this or they’ll have no absolutes and go insane …

… faith and reason not only have no conflict they are so united they are one when thoroughly understood also …

• Definition of COGITO

1
: the philosophic principle that one’s existence is demonstrated by the fact that one thinks

2
: the intellectual processes of the self or ego

Origin of COGITO

New Latin cogito, ergo sum, literally, I think, therefore I am, principle stated by René Descartes First Known Use: 1838

…to go further still : i’m saying the normal modus operandi for all human belief bar that one thing is faith , regardless of what others say this is true , i don’t restrict that one thing to thnking but to all exp incl senses and mystical exp and any exp , i don’t say we can’t have absolutes of proof but rather we must achieve all absolute proofs on the basis of faith and this is fine and how humans must operate …
*

• … when we see anything for instance we don’t see it at all , we see the light reflection of it hitting our eyes and going into our mind for processing etc for instance , we totally rely on faith , i see this as normal and acceptable , i don’t say we should doubt anything just because we must believe it on the basis of faith , and it has serious consequences for say atheists among others who insist on proof god exists when we not only must believe this on faith but everything , there are varying degrees of absoluteness in our faith based beliefs of course , i’m not necessarily trying to prove or disprove anything , i’m just stating truth as i understand it , and i think this subject and word faith are rather misunderstood dear friend …

… we have various means to achieve higher certainty of our faith beliefs such as confirmaTION FROM RELIABLE SOURCES OUTSIDE OURSELVES , INCL OTHER PEOPLE , WE CAN USE OUR MIND ETC , AND EVEN SERIOUSLY MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE WHO CANNOT TRIUST VERY MUCH DUE TO HALLUCINATIONS , DELUSIONS , A WILD IMAGINATION ETC HAVE WAYS TO RECTIFY THEIR FALSE FAITH BELIEFS IF NEEDS BE WITH OTHERS AND DOCTORS ETC , THERE’S MANY WAYS WE NEED TO VERIFY OUR FAITH BELIEFS AND IT IS NOT RESTRICTED TO GOD AND THE THINGS OF GOD , I BELIEVE IN ABSOLUTE PROOFS BEING MORE THAN POSSIBLE BUT ACTUAL ON THE BASIS OF FAITH , A TERRIBLE CONSEQUENCE OF THE FALL WAS THE LOSS OF THE PRETERNATURAL GIFTS WHICH MEANT MAN LOST THE GIFT OF PERFECT FAITH , AND THIS MAY MAKE MY VIEWS HERE HARD TO UNDERSTAND , and i’m sorry caps lock went on , drives me nuts , i’ll take more care in future dear friend …
*

• … i see faith as reasonable means to beliefs of absolute proofs under the right criteria , and i see it as reasonable to believe with absolute proofs on the basis of faith under the right criteria , faith is a big word and can also mean trust , but i accept faith as the normal modus operandi for all human belief bar that one thing , and indeed we can build on that one proof we don’t need faith for and develop endless absolute proofs , one of the preternatural gifts man lost was perfect faith but sanctity partially restores this and all preternatural gifts and more and more the more sanctity one has , i’m not saying we can only trust and hope we’re right , we can and do oft know we are absolutely right on the basis of faith – big difference there …

… and reason is obviously a main way to confirm our fauth beliefs …

… do you understand my absurd claim now dear friend ??? , not silly at all …

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[Flyingg]

… my dear friend

you miss the point of the parable of types if you like : to understand it remove the woman and replace her with divine love you cannot see at all , and this can be a general guide for a faith journey into god , i use human love as it is something all know , that is all , it is up to you if you want god to prove his existence to you or not , but god is divine love and if you really want to know one way or the other for sure you cannot see divine love ,. you must experience it , i’ve shown a rough guide for any interested …

i don’t need to prove god exists , it’s beyond question , the mere fact anything at all exists is absolute proof god exists , and i can take the human mind as far as is possible with proofs of god from logical thought – no probs , but this is better , i may do more on the other later too , the problem is fallen mans mind is so malfunctional he has trouble solving even a single problem now …

originally he had the preternatural gift of perfect faith too , man even with his imperfect faith now needs a booster shot of faith to believe in god , this is why those believers are certain and no doubts god is if you ever wondered dear friend , the only way man can believe anything bar one thing about himself is on the basis of faith , if i’m wrong tell me just one thing ( apart from yourself that you can partially prove exists ) that you can absolutely prove exists without the need for faith , serious , can you show me one thing as said …

as to worrying about an imaginary god i can tell you every man here lives in a delusional fantasy world in his imagination and is in various states of dream , even when conscious , and not just sleep dreaming and day dreaming , man is way out of touch with reality , and we see it all over the world – a giant massive horrible chaotic mess and none seem to know how to fix it because not one person can solve a single problem correctly , pefectly and permanently – and so the problems are piling up at light speed and none are getting solved , it’s nevber been so bad and we see it …

man is insane and has degrees of mental illness , i mean this nice as this is all a part of fallen humanity and the cause of most of the trouble in our world , i’m trying to solve problems here , note this please … you – like everyone it seems are making the mistake that you don’t know there are endless multiple infinite systems of laws and rules in your head , and you expect all else and anything and everything to comply with them , if it obeys them you are pleased and reward it , if it disobeys you are displeased and punish it , this is true and these endless ever evolving and changing laws and rules in heads are pure insanity by the way …

you say prove god exists ??? , but you refuse the proofs god offers to all and indeed billions of people alive attest to , and you won’t even try these proofs , you are insisting god and others obey you and comply with your laws and rules and if they do you’ll reward them and believe in god etc , but you are not supposed to set the rules you are suppose to just participate in the manner that works and gets the job done , if you play tennis you can’t change the scoring system or decide to use a squash ball etc etc , you play tennis by the rules and norms of tennis or it just does not work , if you want to know god he is living and eternal infinite divine love and you get to know him by experiencing him , those are his tennis rules , stop trying to use a squash ball and racket to play tennis with god dear friend , it just doesn’y work …

there is no uncharitableness or anything bad in what i’ve said here , don’t get me wrong , i’m just stating truth as i understand it – especially when i talk about the problems of a fallen human nature …

think hard about it dear friend , try to have a good game of tennis with god by the normal rules of tennis , and enjoy the game …

may god bless and love you ,

john …

John, you are saying that there is arguments for a creator while you are not offering any, even supposing that a creator exists, there is millions of ideologies and beliefs about what a God is, still none of those beliefs offer an absolute truth with enough proofs to support their claims.

I don’t have many reasons to not believe in a creator, but I think I have many reasons to deny personal gods and religions of all sorts and consider them historical mythologies.

I am in under the rules of nature,in most cases, but I want to know and not to believe, still I see no knowledge in religions only faith. You think we reject an infinite divine love? We all desire a powerful loving good father to take care of us and help us in our lives, but not everyone is convinced it’s true, so IF you believe in that kind of god with those criterias, leave our lives in his hands and I’m sure he would be just and good.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

John, you are saying that there is arguments for a creator while you are not offering any, even supposing that a creator exists, there is millions of ideologies and beliefs about what a God is, still none of those beliefs offer an absolute truth with enough proofs to support their claims.

I don’t have many reasons to not believe in a creator, but I think I have many reasons to deny personal gods and religions of all sorts and consider them historical mythologies.

I am in under the rules of nature,in most cases, but I want to know and not to believe, still I see no knowledge in religions only faith. You think we reject an infinite divine love? We all desire a powerful loving good father to take care of us and help us in our lives, but not everyone is convinced it’s true, so IF you believe in that kind of god with those criterias, leave our lives in his hands and I’m sure he would be just and good.

… my dear friend ,

… i’ll be posting intellectual proofs soon , some new some old , and a little more , but i love god and god loves everyone infinitely , and i want all to know and experience this infinite love , it has infinite and eternal benefits , if i told you a sure way no doubts to make a million dollars this next week you’d scream at me to tell you , this is infinitely greater and more valuable than that , perhaps you can’t see it and don’t appreciate it yet , but it is , i have trillions of dollars , all the money anyone could ever want and i want to share it with you and all , but god is infinitely greater than all the vwealth in the world , an infinite treasure i want to share , unimaginable benefits dear friend , all positives and zero negatives with god , worth the effort i think and am trying to help all see this …

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

… some of my own philosophival proofs of god and his nature using the concept of something and nothing , i have tons more to say though , and this can be but a converasation opener if you like , it is very brief this opening statement on this …

… my dearest friends ,

… this is not the sum totalof my knowledge this post , i’ll start a little on the intellectual side but it is very brief and i have much more to offer and will soon for sure , i’ll tell you briefly , but i’m not writing a book – note that , so if unsure a dialogue is ok to fully solve the problem …

… we take the concept of something and nothing , and i’ll cover more than one q with this , we need to understand that although we so oft and commonly use the word nothing , nothing is what it says , it is nothing and does not and cannot exist full stop …

… why does god exist ??? , there is no time , there is only eternity , in eternity there is no beginning , end or middle , there is just " now " and all in " now " just " is " or is " isness " , now although there’s no time or beginning – to get our head around why god must and does exist we just have to know the right q , there is a choice of something or nothing existing , now if nothing exists , which is impossible – but let’s allow it for argument , then nothing having existence has become something , so whether something or nothing exists we see that something has to exist , this something we call god by the way …

… of the nature of this something we can know many things but require revelation to really know much about god , but this something must be the most absolutely infinitely perfect something that can be , the reason is that nothing / ness cannot exist , so there can be no nothing / ness in this something , it must be completely perfect , we know some of those perfections but there is beyond infinitely more and we will never even nearly fully know or understand let alone appreciate god , he is way beyond us little creatures …

… we know god is love as love unites and it’s opposite evil divides , as to god being a trinity , we only know this thru revelation , but if true it is the most absolutely infinitely perfect and powerful love that is each of the 3 and that binds the 3 together so perfectly that though they are 3 they become united as 1 …

… now why is god creative ??? , the nature of something is that it must do something , be creative , this is why god is infinitely creative and must express his infinite creativity in an infiniute number of infinitely creative ways …

… i’ll touch on pantheism as i’ve been thinking on it too if you like , if god must create more of huimself thenn this shows he is not the most infinitely perfect something that can possibly be , it is total contradiction and impossibility , we know things come to be in our world , we see it , and they are not god or it proves god is imperfect and if that were so god does not exist , poof – he’s gone …

… this is brief so if you want to go back and forth on all or any pts or anything else feel free dear friend ,

… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[babylonsfalling]

Been there, done that. I spent slightly over a year going to Mass regularly; praying the rosary and novenas; regular confession; reading about the lives of the saints; even went on the World Youth Day just over a month ago - ultimately to the conclusion that there is no God.

So I’m not searching for what does not exist, and I speculate that’s the same for a lot of other atheists that roam these boards.

Geez Bohm…little incomplete there aren’t you?
The reality is a whole lotta wavering back and forth in a pretty short period of time.
When I came to this sight I don’t think you weren’t identifying as anything at all, then you started identifying as atheist, then back to no identification, THEN you were Catholic (for a LOT less than “slightly over a year”), then you were “atheist, former DEVOUT” Catholic", then back to atheist again, and in a recent post while still identifying as atheist, you said you were thinking of returning to the Catholic Church just to kind of be there while still be atheist.
Taken as a whole, the gist of it is that you don’t want to be Christian but can’t succeed at being atheist…something which I suspect is true of all atheists, and most aptly demonstrated by those who claim atheism but can’t stay away from Christians.
You may want to take of more objective look at your own behavior Bohm:thumbsup:

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

… a treatise explaining natural law based on my personal theories , not official church teaching but my thoughts at current …

… my dearest friends ,

… i’ll be posting a long proof of god and much more soon entitutled " what must i do to inherit eternal life " , over several posts , but i want to explain my understanding of sin is a little different now to that when you read it , sin is actually when you consent to and indulge evil thoughts in your mind and evil desires in your heart , and with full consent , full knowledge , and whether it is a serious matter or not is vital to know whether it is mortal or venial sin , and by the way i call mortal sin – the absence of love , and venial sin – the lack of love , gods law and the spiritual life are summed up with one word when it is correctly understood " love " , it is simple but the definition is more involved than most may think , anyway i’ll post some theory to cover the changed views here and more , so you understand me later especially …

… firstly let’s look at some theory relevant before we discuss natural law pre – fall , during and post – fall in fair detail , please take a little time as I know it’s a long treatise but I’m hoping and confident you will all fin it useful and it will make a useful contribution as we try to solve this problem dear friends …

… in reply to can a loving god send or allow people to go to hell forever a small part of my thought on this follows , hell = the ultimate punishment for seriously violating the natural law knowingly and not repenting so let us look at it a little first dear friends , they who say god and eternal hell are contradictory have a true argument and win hands down no questions at all with this one , but there’s a lot more to it than first meets the eye , first of all let me say i don’t care if god sends people to hell fire forever or not , god can do what he likes and it’s not my role to tell god how to do anything , i’m here to do gods will , i do all in my power to get as many to heaven and away from hell also , as hell is very real and eternal , but evil and suffering and everything bad cannot exist as it is imperfection, it is the opposite of perfection which is love and all in love which is god , god is the model for perfection and suffering and evil and sin are opposites to love , and therefore imperfect …

… the problem came when satan rebelled and god cast him into hell with his minions , and hell is the opposite of reality for angels , as we know the angels world is heaven , so once the demons became evil that evil was not allowed to exist in reality so god cast them into non - reality or hell which is just nothing / ness , love is something and evils are nothing / ness , if evil exists in reality then that imperfection in gods creation is a reflection on the creator and if the creator is imperfect then he god will cease to be god and there’s no god , so it cannot be , hence the demons were cast into a delusion of hell , non - reality but the experience is very real and it is eternal , but an eternal realm does not have to last forever and remember this for later , eternity or eternal and forever are two completely different things altogether , something can exist in eternity for an instant , it can come and go and it is still eternal , the understanding of eternity and eternal is not clear oft i feel …

… now we know adam and eve were tested and they failed , they listened to satan and desired the forbidden knowledge of good and evil and god punished them with the forbidden knowledge and made satan there master in this world as a further punishment to a degree , the knowledge of good and evil is from satan and rubbish and should be rejected with certain considerations as there are consequences of just throwing out all laws and rules obviously , but our whole universe and cosmos , world , planet , us and everything here was turned into non - reality when our first parents fell , you read a little about it in genesis , we were thrown out of reality much the same as the demons were , we lost our magnificently beautiful paradise known as the garden of eden which is symbolic of reality in fact , we’re in a delusion now , it’s like a nightmare that is oh so real to us and we certainly experience it as real and we suffer , there is evils and we die and some go to hell , it’s all real to us , but it is all taking place outside of reality as god solves the problem of evil for us and the demons too in my opine …

… and my theories are my own and new and i’m giving a brief overview so this is not the whole story – bear this in mind please , there is a few things we need to know about angels and man , we do not have free will to do anything except gods will and this is how it should and was supposed to be , so remember if our free will to do good or evil and the demons apparent freedom to do evil is contrary to gods will they and us cannot complain if god forces us to do his will no matter what in the end , you do not need free will to love at all , you only need freedom to do gods will which is love to be exact , and that is how it was in the beginning for man pre – fall , the problem with abuse of free will came with very high intelligence and with an opportunity and temptation both demons and man are able to solve the problem of being able to defy gods will , other less intelligent life forms cannot solve such a complex problem as this so they just do gods will …

continued -

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

… a further point is this messy delusion has been fixed instantaneously by god outside of reality so whilst it’s a slow agonising misery for us in reality it not only does not exist god has already fixed all this problem , it’s an illusion time and change and it all taking so long , god sees all differently to us , this could keep going and don’t accuse me of anything or lable me please , this is my current thinking and theory and i’m not proclaiming church teaching , i’m just talking about what i’ve spent the last few yrs working out , there’s other stuff but I’ll limit this part for now dear friends …

… my own theory briefly on morality and then we’ll talk about natural law theory specifically dear friends : morality only exists outside reality in this delusion as we lost reality or the garden of eden thru the fall , in reality there is no right or wrong , good or evil , sin or virtue , i know it sounds bad , but that’s an unfallen world , this is a world the opposite of reality in varied ways throughout it , being bad is just making mistakes which is normal and just human , the prob is man is supposed to be pure love and only able to do gods will which is love , he has no conscience in reality by the way , and with the preternatural gifts and extreme natural inclination to love and massive problem solving abilities and serious even miraculous relationship with god he makes only little insignificant mistakes , harmless ones , and learns very quick …

… here man and his world are the opposite of what they should be in varied ways so it’s a complete mess , because adam and eve listened to satan as he told them knowing good and evil they will be like god and did as satan said , god is punishing us by making man and his whole world good and evil , every single thought man has is classified good or evil , it can be many names , correct or incorrect , perfect or imperfect , beautiful or ugly , etc etc etc we classify all as good or evil , but this is not reality , this is a punishment from god , we divide all as good or evil but it’s not reality at all , and this forbidden knowledge of good and evil came from satan and we should not trust it at all , if it were any good god would have given it to us and not made it a punishment for us …

… but along with that man wants to be god so god is rubbing our noses in the knowledge of good and evil , and man is trying to be god and he may get sick of it eventually i hope , and satan rules over our world and man so much to rub mans nose into listening to satan instead of himself god , but although this delusion is not really real and temporary — sin , evil , demons , death , hell etc are all very real experiences here , so delusion or not we must play gods game as he’s established it …
…we will get reality back soon i hope by the way , and the big reasons god threw us out of reality into the delusion is because evil or imperfection cannot be allowed to exist or it reflects on the creator and any imperfection in the creator means he ceases to exist , the demons were cast into the opposite of their reality heaven into hell too , but also god cannot become a man and suffer and die to redeem us in reality but in this delusion he can and has , god does everything for infinite reasons though , that’s my own theory on morality very briefly …

… finally we’ll explore the op about natural law , is it real or not and what is the nuts and bolts of it all pre – fall , during the fall and post – fall ( now ) ??? ,
… what was man like prior to the fall ( original sin , which is really disobedience to gods will which forced god to take us out of reality which is the garden of eden state in my own opine dear friends ) ??? …

Non – fallen man is an immaculate conception you could say and of course sinless , but there is much more to it , in the beginning man only had free will to do gods will which is just “ love “ , and only being capable of “ loving “ man had no need of a conscience at all , man had no knowledge of good or evil in any form at all , man was programmed perfectly by god with a natural inclination to love , and indeed that is all he could do , possessing the full preternatural gifts was a huge plus for man clearly and it is largely the reason our whole world and humanity is in such a mess because man has lost the preternatural gifts and cannot solve a single problem perfectly , completely and permanently , a big big loss for man , also our world and man himself and his experience of this whole world was like a heaven on earth , through his senses man experienced a sheer paradise here and himself being set to max on an emotional level to max pleasure and happiness and this always increasing meant it was quite a paradise here at first …
… man had a law from god in the beginning but not as usually thought , man is really just another creature here among the others , there is not much difference between a man and a tree or a man and a cat , but man had an exalted position in his paradise here as leader and no other creatures here would ever harm or be dangerous to man , nothing in our world was hostile or dangerous to man , even the sun , or hot or cold , man did not need or know about clothes and had a perfectly stable and comfortable body temperature in even extremes of heat and cold …

continued -

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

… but back to mans original natural law , it was not written on his heart and he did not have a conscience so it was not there , the very will of god was built into man and he just behaved perfectly natural without even knowing it , much the same as all the other fellow creatures here , man also enjoyed a very special friendship with god and god would openly converse with man in his thoughts I think , and man was protected by god from all harm ,even natural disasters , by god and even miraculously so when necessary , man was not meant to grow old and wrinkley and grey and die , man would achieve physical peak at maybe 15 y.o. and continue to grow until full maturity at say 30 y.o. and then never change appearance again ever , man was different to here and had natural beauty and a perfect body par excellence unlike this fallen state , man was greater than any genius here so working out what he needed was easy oft and in any case he could talk to god when he wanted and needed , the garden of eden which is reality is mans main world , heaven is a part of that reality but I think there is much more awaiting us in eternity and eternities myself , an adventure none could ever dream up , truly exciting beyond belief for us all I’m sure …

… but due to mans higher intelligence and especially with the full preternatural gifts when tempted and tested man disobeyed god and as mentioned god had to throw us out of reality into this delusion for reasons explained , but god does all for infinite reasons , you can read god telling adam and eve some of our punishments in genesis and when understood you realize god is turning man and his whole world into the opposite of reality , on natural law we’ll focus now , because man wanted the forbidden knowledge of good and evil and listened to satan and wanted to be god , god is both punishing man and simultaneously fixing the whole mess in our world , eventually there will be a new heaven and earth created as scripture says too , hopefully soon , man still has gods natural law of love inscribed and built into his very nature , but mans mind is really messed up without the preternatural gifts and he is a real mess , actually man starts rotting and decaying from conception as one big punishment from the fall was we shall die and everything here in this delusion is killing us in various ways now …

… and because man wanted to know good and evil god has made our whole world and everything man thinks , says or does good and / or evil , in actual fact good and evil don’t exist , it’s just acting out roles , reality is love and it’s opposite is evil which is nothing / ness and cannot exist , love is something and only something can and must exist , so man barely able to recognize let alone know the natural law of love built into his very human nature is a mess , this natural law exists but fallen man is sick and now naturally prone to evil so he is a defective and faulty …

… but the most noticeable remedy of god to this dilemma is that every man has a conscience , the voice of conscience which is like a command from god speaks with absolute authority , and no reasonable man can deny the existence of conscience in man , when you do evil your conscience troubles you and you need to fix it , when you do good conscience rewards you , like the old saying goes “ there’s nothing like a clear conscience “ and conscience is not an even near perfect reflection of the natural law of love built into mans very nature by god to ensure man naturally does gods will , but god has offered it as a help , man must inform and instruct and develop his conscience , this post fall natural law of conscience is largely learned laws and rules , this is self-evident by people all over the world having different laws and rules governing and guiding their conscience , a terrorist suicide bomber can do it in good conscience if he truly believes he’s right , I hate that lot what they do though , but a normal Christian could not even consider this as a conscionable act , obviously not …

… so whilst mans mind is darkened and malfunctioning and he can oft barely recognize or perceive the natural law of love built into his very human nature by god he has been given a conscience by god temporarily as a help , all the laws and rules that go into developing and influencing mans conscience are learned and not necessarily , and certainly not always , a part of gods natural law , god has not abandoned man though , god gave us the Decalogue or 10 commandments to teach us some basics of how to live naturally as we were meant , but fallen man must learn the original natural law of love now as we know I’m sure , when god gave us his law what he actually gave us was his word , and his word then became flesh in Christ jesus and came to further explain the natural law of love and to save us and establish the catholic church , amongst many other things …

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… all authority was given to the church to teach in jesus’ name , and the church has a major role in determining , discerning , teaching and instructing about morality , which is simply the church trying to help man live gods natural law of love enshrined in human nature ut no longer able to be known by man at all virtually due to mans fallen condition , so for me , to say natural law does not exist is wrong , you just need to understand more and if your reasonable you cannot deny it exists and must , what if man had no conscience at all ??? , hell on earth , fallen man has an ever evolving and changing massive infinite system of laws and rules in his head which makes him judge all as good or evil , and reward good or punish evil , he applies these rules to absolutely everything and it is complete insanity but that is mans punishment for now , these endless and ever changing laws and rules are not natural but they control man so much he is totally enslave by them , but when we get reality back these and all bad problems will go , something to really work for and look forward to , I’ll leave it there as it’s getting quite long but hope you all find it helpful and useful dearest friends …
… may god bless and love you ,

… john …

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Following is a flyer I made about such questions. It will take a few posts. But might be useful. I will post it all and you may or may not like it. It is not comprehensive.
( should take 10 posrs dearest friends )

Entitled- What must I do to attain eternal life?

If you have ever wondered about this big question please take a few moments to learn what the
Catholic Church has been teaching on this subject since the time of the Apostles - 2000 years.
We shall attempt to answer this both complex and simple issue by taking a brief look at the following
questions. The answers to these questions will help us gain some insight into the Catholic perspective.

1. What proof is available for the existence of God?
2. Whether there is any proof for the existence of an immortal soul in mankind?
3. What proof is there for the Catholic Churches claim to be the ‘One True Church’?
4. What has the Catholic Church always taught we must do to inherit eternal life and go to Heaven ?

God has made a big promise to us all of eternal life in paradise with Him if we make but a small effort to do
His will. Lets explore the Catholic understanding of the questions above and explore what the Church
has always understood to be Gods will.

Q. 1. What proof is available for the existence of God?

Answer. Following is an extremely brief summary of 24 arguments for Gods existence.
Science cannot prove the existence of God as it deals only with what it can touch and see. As God is Spirit
we need to look for evidence elsewhere. The main evidence available for the existence of God is
philosophical & theological so please take the time to absorb as many of these proofs as you can. Many
people just need to look around to see the proof for Gods existence, but if you want more evidence read this
section slowly and thoughtfully.

1.Ontological ( Anselm ): “God” means “that which has all conceivable perfections” ; and it is more
perfect to exist really than only mentally; therefore God exists really. The most perfect conceivable
being cannot lack any conceivable perfection.

1. Cosmological
   A. Motion : Since no thing (or series of things ) can move ( change ) itself, there must be a first, unmoved
   mover, source of all motion.
   B. Efficient causality: Nothing can cause its own existence. If there is no first, uncaused cause of the chain
   of causes and effects we see, these second causes could not exist. They do, so it must.
   C. Contingency and Necessity: Contingent beings ( beings able not to be ) depend on a necessary
   Being ( a being not able not to be ).
   D. Degrees of perfection: Real degrees of real perfections presuppose the existence of that perfection
   itself ( the perfect Being ).
   E. Design: Design can be caused only by an intelligent designer. Mindless nature cannot design itself
   or come about by chance.
   F. The Kalam ( Time ) Argument: Time must have a beginning, a first moment ( creation ) to give rise
   to all other moments. ( The ‘Big Bang’ seems to confirm this: time had an absolute beginning 15 - 20
   billion years ago.) And the act of creation presupposes a creator.
2. Psychological
   A. From mind and truth
3. Augustine: Our minds are in contact with eternal, objective and absolute truth superior to our minds
   ( e.g. 2 + 2 = 4 )and the eternal is divine, not human.

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1. Descartes: Our idea of a perfect being ( God ) could not have come from any imperfect source ( cause ),
   for the effect cannot be greater than the cause. Thus it must have come from God.
   B. From will and good
2. Kant: Morality requires a perfect ideal, and requires that this ideal be actual and real, somewhere.
3. Newman: Conscience speaks with absolute authority, which could come only from God.
   C. From emotions and desire.
4. C . S . Lewis: Innate desires correspond to real objects, and we have an innate desire ( at least
   unconsciously ) for God, and Heaven.
5. Von Balthasar: Beauty reveals God. There is Mozart, therefore there must be God.
   D. From experience
6. Existential Argument: If there is no God ( and no immortality )life is ultimately meaningless.
7. Mystical experience meets God.
8. Ordinary religious experience ( prayer ) meets God. ( Prayer of the Skeptic :” God, if you exist, show
   me” - a real experiment.
9. Love argument: If there is no God of love, no absolute that is love, then love is not absolute. Or, the
   eyes of love reveal the infinite value of the human person as the image of God.
10. The argument from the analogy of other minds, which are no harder to prove than God ( Plantinga ).
11. The practical argument: Pascals wager: To bet on God is your only chance of winning eternal
    happiness, and to bet against Him is your only chance of losing. It is the most reasonable bet in life.
12. Historical
    A. From miracles: If miracles exist, a supernatural miracle-worker exists.
    B. From providence, perceivable in history ( e.g., In scripture ) and in ones own life.
    C. From authority: Most good, wise, reliable people believe in God.
    D. From saints: You see God through them. Where do they get their joy and power. As with Mother
    Teresa of Calcutta.
    E. From Jesus: If God is unreal, Jesus was history’s biggest fool or fake.

Q. 2. Does man have an immortal soul? And is there any proof for this?

Answer : Firstly we shall prove that man has a soul.

A living human body is not the same thing as a corpse. Now the soul is the difference between a
corpse and a living being. A dead body cannot move, eat, think, express itself, enjoy or be miserable.
It can but fall to pieces and go back to dust. There is something that stops your body from doing that now.
It is your soul.For every activity you must find a principal of operation behind it. The principle in a man
which thinks and loves, and is happy or miserable, is a very real thing. It is not nothing, less than the
very body it animates. Nor is it a chemical. No doctor, examining a corpse, can tell you what chemical
is missing that it should not live. If there be nothing else save chemical substances, let doctors and
scientists gather together the requisite chemicals and say, “ Live! “ They can effect nothing like this.
There is something that chemistry cannot reach; it is the soul or spirit. Look anyone in the face, and
behind those animated features, those changing expressions, in the very eyes, you will read the soul.

Now we shall see if there is any proof for the immortality of the soul.

That the soul will, and indeed must, survive the death of the body is demonstrable from many points of view.

Firstly, its essential structure forbids dissolution by death. Death is the disintegration of parts. Only
composite things can die. Yet the soul is not composite. Its power of pure immaterial thought proves its
independence of matter. It is endowed with spiritual faculties, and is as spiritual as the faculties it possesses,
which will enable it to live and to operate when seperated from the body. Not being material, it can never be
destroyed or fall to pieces like matter. Nor would God endow it with a nature essentially fitted to live on
just for an idle freak, and with the intention of annihilating it after all.

Secondly, every individual experiences a sense of moral obligation, and every obligation demands a
sufficient sanction. If the state said, “ This is the law,” and I replied, “ What if I do not observe it,” it would
be ludicrous were the state to reply, “ Oh, nothing will happen. I say only that it is the law. If you break it,
you break it, I suppose.” That would be a joke, not a law. I know that I shall have to answer some day for
my attitude towards the interior sense of moral obligation. I can go right through this life without
encountering anyone capable of judging me concerning it. The real answer must be given at the judgement
seat of God, and my soul will have to be there. Consequently it must survive.

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Thirdly, a more universal view of human life shows us the many inequalities which offend against the
sense of justice. We know that justice will be done some day, and as it is not always done in this life,
it will be done in the next. This implies our presence, and therefore our living on after death.

Fourthly, every soul naturally has an insatiable natural desire for happiness, and for lasting happiness.
No earthly or temporal good can satisfy this hunger. Yet this innate natural tendency cannot lack its rightful
object. As well try to conceive the existence of the human eye, perfectly adapted to sight, yet without
the possibility of light anywhere to enable it to see.

Reflection, then, upon the simple structure of the soul, upon the future administration of the sanctions
attached to the moral law, upon the rectification of worldwide inequalities, and upon the teleological
inclinations to a lasting and perfect good, makes it a violation of reason to deny the survival of the soul.

Q. 3 : What proof is there for the catholic churches claim to be the one true curch ?

Answer: The proof lies in the fact that the catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the
exact religion established by Christ. Now the Christian religion is that religion which-

(A) Was founded by Christ personally;
(B) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;
(C) Is catholic (universal), in accordance with Christs command to go to all the world and teach all
nations;
(D) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
(E) Exercises divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the
Church he would be as the heathen.

Now the Catholic Church alone can claim-

(A) To have been founded by Christ personally. All other Churches disappear as you go back through
history. Christ said, “ Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.”. There are many
claimants to the honour of being Christs church. But among all non-Catholic Churches, we find
one built on a John Wesley; another on a Martin Luther; another on a Mrs Eddy etc. But the
Catholic Church alone can claim to have been built on Peter, the chief of the Apostles, and one time
Bishop of Rome.
(B) To have existed in all the centuries since Christ.
(C) That everyone of her members admits exactly the same essential doctrines.
(D) To be Catholic or universal.
(E) To speak with a voice of true authority in the name of God.

Q. 4 : What has the Catholic Church always taught you must do to inherit eternal life and go
to Heaven ?

Answer: One must obey the commandments and fulfill the precepts of the church. The following are
exerpts from the catechism of the Catholic Church.

The precepts of the Church

2041 The precepts of the church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by
liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is
meant to guarantee to the faithful the indispensable minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort,
in the growth in love of God and neighbour:

2042 The first precept ( “ You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation.” )Requires
the faithful to participate in the Eucharistic celebration when the Christian community gathers
together on the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord.

The second precept (” You shall confess your sins at least once a year.”) Ensures preparation for the
Eucharist by the reception of the sacrament of reconciliation, which continues Baptism’s work of
conversion and forgiveness.

The third precept (” You shall humbly receive your Creator in Holy Communion at least during the
Easter season.” Guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lords Body and Blood in connection

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with the paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.

2043 The fourth precept (” You shall keep holy the holy days of obligation.” Completes the Sunday
observance by participation in the principal liturgical feasts which honour the mysteries of the Lord,
the Virgin Mary, and the saints.

The fifth precept (” You shall observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence.”) Ensures the
times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts; they help us acquire mastery
over our instincts and freedom of heart.

The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according
to his abilities.

The Ten Commandments

The obligation of the Decalogue

2072 Since they express mans fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbour, the 10
commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable,
and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The 10 commandments are
engraved by God in the human heart.

“ Teacher, what must I do…?”

2052 “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”
To the young man who asked this question, Jesus answers first by invoking the necessity to recognise
God as the “ One there is who is good,”as the supreme good and source of all good. Then Jesus tells
him: “ If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”And He cites for His questioner the precepts
that concern love of neighbour: “ You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal,
You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.” Finally Jesus sums up these
commandments positively: “ You shall love your neighbour as yourself.”

2055 When someone asks him, “ Which commandment in the law is the greatest?” Jesus replies:
“ You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbour
as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” The decalogue **must
**be interpreted in light of this twofold yet single commandment of love, the fullness of the law:
The commandments: “ You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not
steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this
sentence: “ You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a
neighbour, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The following is a standard Catholic expression of the Ten Commandments:

1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other Gods besides me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the sabath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
9. You shall not covet your neighbours wife.
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbour.

The first 3 commandments are related to our duties towards God and the last seven are our duties
towards our neighbour. It is by obeying Gods commandments that we show God that we love Him and
our neighbour ( which is every human being ). And if we love God and our neighbour as ourself we
shall receive eternal life with God in Heaven.

On the next page we shall take a brief look at what the catechism of the Catholic Church teaches about
these commandments.

For a complete explaination of the commandments and all the teaching of the Catholic Church ( which
all Catholics are bound to accept ) read the catechism of the Catholic Church

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[John_Russell_Jr]

A brief explaination of the Ten Commandments ( Decalogue )
Points 2133 and so on are brief summaries from the teaching on each commandment in the catechism.

1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other Gods besides me.

2133 “ You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul
and with all your strength” ( Deut 6:5 ).
2134 The first commandment summons man to believe in God, to hope in him,
and to love him above all else.
2135 “ You shall worship the Lord your God” ( Mt 4:10 ). Adoring God, praying to
him, offering him the worship that belongs to him, fulfilling the promises and
vows made to him are acts of the virtue of religion which fall under obedience
to the first commandment.
2136 The duty to offer God authentic worship concerns man both as an individual
and as a social being.
2137 “ Men of present day want to profess there religion freely in private and in public”
2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is
manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.
2139 Tempting God in words or deeds, sacrilege, and simony are sins of irreligion
forbidden by the first commandment.
2140 Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the
first commandment.
2141 The veneration of sacred images is based on the mystery of the incarnation of
the word of God. It is not contrary to the first commandment.

1. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.

2160 “ O Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth” ( Ps 8:1 )!
2161 The second commandment enjoins respect for the Lords name. The name of
the Lord is Holy.
2162 The second commandment forbids every improper use of Gods name. Blasphemy
is the use of the name of God, of Jesus Christ, of the Virgin Mary, and of the saints
in an offensive way.
2163 False oaths call on God to be witness to a lie. Perjury is a grave offence against the
Lord who is always faithful to his promises.
2164 “ Do not swear whether by the creator, or any creature, except truthfully, of necessity,
and with reverence” ( St Ignatius of Loyola, Spiritual exercises, 38).
2165 In Baptism, the Christian receives his name in the Church. Parents, godparents,
and the pastor are to see that he be given a Christian name. The patron saint
provides a model of charity and the assurance of his prayer.
2166 The Christian begins his prayers and activities with the Sign of the Cross: “ in the
name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.”
2167 God calls each one by name ( cf. Isa 43:1 ).

1. Remember to keep holy the sabbath day.

2189 “ Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy” ( Deut 5:12 ). The seventh day is a
sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord” ( Ex 31:15 ).
2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been
replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the
Resurrection of Christ.
2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christs Resurrection on the “ eigth day,”
Sunday, which is rightly called the Lords Day.
2192 “ Sunday…is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the
universal Church”. On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful
are bound to participate in the Mass”.

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2193 “ On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound…
To abstain from those labours and business concerns which impede
the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lords
Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body”.
2194 The institution of Sunday helps all “ to be allowed sufficient rest and
leisure to cultivate their amilial, cultural, social, and religious lives”
2195 Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others
that would hinder them from observing the Lords Day.

1. Honor your father and your mother.

2247 “ Honor your father and your mother “ ( Deut 5:16 ; Mk 7:10 ).
2248 According to the fourth commandment, God has willed that, after him,
we should honor our parents and those whom he has vested with
authority for our good.
2249 The conjugal community is established upon the covenant and consent
of the spouses, to the procreation and education of children.
2250 “ The well-being of the individual person and of both human and Christian
society is closely bound up with the healthy state of conjugal and family
life”.
2251 Children owe their parents respect, gratitude, just obedience, and
assistance. Filial respect fosters harmony in all of family life.
2252 Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children in
the faith, prayer, and all the virtues. They have the duty to provide as far
as possible for the physical and spiritual needs of their children.
2253 Parents should respect and encourage their childrens vocations. They
should remember and teach that the first calling of the Christian is to
follow Jesus.
2254 Public authority is obliged to respect the fundamental rights of the human
person and the conditions for the exercise of his freedom.
2255 It is the duty of citizens to work with civil authority for building up society
in a spirit of truth, justice, solidarity, and freedom.
2256 Citizens are obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil
authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order.
“ We must obey God rather than men “ ( Acts 5:29 ).
2257 Every society’s judgments and conduct reflect a vision of man and his
destiny. Without the light the gospel sheds on God and man, societies
easily become totalitarian.

1. You shall not kill.

2318 “ In Gods ] hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all
mankind “ ( Job 12:10 ).
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred
because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the
image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2320 The murder of a human being is gravely contrary to the dignity of the
person and the holiness of the Creator.
2321 The prohibition of murder does not abrogate the right to render an
unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. Legitimate defense is a grave
duty for whoever is responsible for the lives of others or the common
good.
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that
is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “ criminal “ practice,
gravely contrary to the moral law. The church imposes the canonical
penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.

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2323 Because it should be treated as a person from conception, the embryo
must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed like every
other human being.
2324 Intentional euthanasia, whatever its forms or motives, is murder. It is
gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect
due to the living God, his creator.
2325 Suicide is seriously contrary to justice, hope and charity. It is forbidden
by the fifth commandment.
2326 Scandal is a grave offence when by deed or omission it deliberately
leads others to sin.
2327 Because of the evils and injustices that all war brings with it, we must
do everything reasonably possible to avoid it. The church prays: “ From
famine, pestilence, and war, O Lord, deliver us.”
2328 The Church and human reason assert the permanent validity of the
moral law during armed conflicts. Practices deliberately contrary to the
law of nations and to its universal principles are crimes.
2329 “ The arms race is one of the greatest curses on the human race and
the harm it inflicts on the poor is more than can be endured”.
2330 “ Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God”(Mt5:9)

1. You shall not commit adultery.

2392 “Love is the fundamental and innate vocation of every human being”.
2393 By creating the human being man and woman, God gives personal
dignity equally to the one and the other. Each of them, man and woman,
should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity.
2394 Christ is the model of chastity. Every baptised person is called to lead a
chaste life, each according to his particular state of life.
2395 Chastity means the integration of sexuality within the person. It includes
an apprenticeship in self-mastery.
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication,
pornography, and homosexual practises.
2397 The covenant which spouses have freely entered into entails faithful love.
It imposes on them the obligation to keep their marriage indissoluble.
2398 Fecundity is a good, a gift and an end of marriage. By giving life, spouses
participate in Gods fatherhood.
2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible
fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the
spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means ( for
example, direct sterization or ).
2400 Adultery, divorce, polygamy, and free union are grave offences against
the dignity of marriage.

1. You shall not steal.

2450 “ You shall not steal “ ( Ex 20:15; Deut 5:19 ). Neither thieves, nor the
greedy…nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God” ( 1 Cor 6:10 ).
2451 The seventh commandment enjoins the practice of justice and charity
in the administration of earthly goods and the fruits of mens labour.
2452 The goods of creation are destined for the entire human race. The right
to private property does not abolish the universal destination of goods.
2453 The seventh commandment forbids theft. Theft is the usurpation of
anothers goods, against the reasonable will of the owner.

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2454 Every manner of taking and using another’s property unjustly is
contrary to the seventh commandment. The injustice committed
requires reparation. Commutative justice requires the restitution
of stolen goods.
2455 The moral law forbids acts which, for commercial or totalitarian
purposes, lead to the enslavement of human beings, or to their
being bought, sold or exchanged like merchandise.
2456 The dominion granted by the creator over the mineral, vegetable,
and animal resources of the universe cannot be separated from
respect for moral obligations, including those toward generations
to come.
2457 Animals are entrusted to mans stewardship; he must show them
kindness. They may be used to serve the just satisfaction of
mans needs.
2458 The Church makes a judgment about economic and social matters
when the fundamental rights of the person or the salvation of souls
requires it. She is concerned with the temporal common good of
men because they are ordered to the sovereign Good, their ultimate
end.
2459 Man is himself the author, centre, and goal of all economic and
social life. The decisive point of the social question is that goods
created by God for everyone should in fact reach everyone in
accordance with justice and with the help of charity.
2460 The primordial value of labor stems from man himself, its author and
beneficiary. By means of his labour man participates in the work of
creation. Work united to Christ can be redemptive.
2461 True development concerns the whole man. It is concerned with
increasing each persons ability to respond to his vocation and hence
to Gods call.
2462 Giving alms to the poor is a witness to fraternal charity: it is also a
work of justice pleasing to God.
2463 How can we not recognise Lazarus, the hungry beggar in the parable
( cf. Lk 17:19-31 ), in the multitude of human beings without bread,
a roof or a place to stay? How can we fail to hear Jesus: “ As you
did it not to one of these, you did it not to me” ( Mt 25:45 )?

1. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

2504 “ You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour” ( Ex 20:16 ).
Christ’s disciples have “ put on the new man, created after the likeness
of God in true righteousness and holiness” ( Eph 4:24 ).
2505 Truth or truthfulness is the virtue which consists in showing oneself true
in deeds and truthful in words, and guarding against duplicity,
dissimulation, and hypocrisy.
2506 The Christian is not to “ be ashamed of testifying to our Lord “ ( 2 Tim 1:8)
in deed and word. Martyrdom is the supreme witness given to the truth
of the faith.
2507 Respect for the reputation and honor of persons forbids all detraction
and calumny in word or attitude.
2508 Lying consists in saying what is false with the intention of deceiving the
neighbour who has the right to the truth.
2509 An offence committed against the truth requires reparation.
2510 The golden rule helps one discern, in concrete situations, whether or not
it would be appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.

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