Atheists: Why aren't you theists?

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God would have to personally appear to me and prove that he was, in fact, God. Then, I’d ask him which religion was the true one (if any). If he said Catholicism, my *** would be in Church every single day.
If God did appear to you personally what kind of proof would He need to provide you that He is indeed God?

Would it not be easier for you to conclude that such an apparition is the result of some psychosis, no matter what proof was offered?
 
I honestly don’t know. Mere belief would probably be easier; I have little problem imagining myself believing in some concepts of the divine, there’s merely the gap between divine and human that remains to be crossed. I can’t jump it.
Ask God to carry you over it then. 🙂

You don’t have to do it by yourself. If you really want to jump that gap God will help you. Maybe that is why He has brought you to these forums.
 
Ask God to carry you over it then. 🙂

You don’t have to do it by yourself. If you really want to jump that gap God will help you. Maybe that is why He has brought you to these forums.
I don’t particularly have any reason to want to in the first place.

I did, however, take a dare here a while back – prayed once a day for three weeks. Nothing happened.
 
I don’t particularly have any reason to want to in the first place.

I did, however, take a dare here a while back – prayed once a day for three weeks. Nothing happened.
Doesn’t the possibility that an infinite God exists, and that you can have a personal relationship with Him, and become more fully yourself than you’ve ever been and share eternal happiness with Him pique your interest?

How did you pray?
 
If I may make a slight modification…

Doesn’t the possibility that an infinite Salma Hayek exists, and that you can have a personal relationship with** her**, and become more fully yourself than you’ve ever been and share eternal happiness with Salma Hayek pique your interest?

Well, since you put it that way…

Seriously, I believe I have a much better chance of becoming Salma Hayek’s pool boy, than of ever having a personal relationship with a God that simply cannot be found.
 
Doesn’t the possibility that an infinite God exists, and that you can have a personal relationship with Him, and become more fully yourself than you’ve ever been and share eternal happiness with Him pique your interest?
Not particularly; and I think that if there is a deity, it is not likely to be so personable and anthropomorphic as the Christian. I am myself already, God may be God.
How did you pray?
Informally, as a one-sided conversation with whatever might be listening – as I hear one is supposed to, if not using a rote prayer. Thanking for stuff being generally pretty great, occasionally asking a favor or two, occasionally asking ‘where’s the accountability here?!’ Transcripts would probably scandalize the delicate ears of many a forumgoer, but it’s how I converse with friends – and let’s face it, God would know what I was thinking anyway. Better to be honest and upfront about it.

MerryAtheist, that’s brilliant.
 
Seriously though, what would it take for you to believe? What kind of proof would you require to believe the claims of the Church?
Well, since I do not know that there can ever be evidence for the existence of God, then I suspect that personal revelation would do it. That said, due to my way of looking at thing, I would likely think that I was going mentally ill.

Perhaps there is no way for God to win? At least, I doubt that I would ever believe without some sort of evidence, which will negate faith.
 
Not particularly; and I think that if there is a deity, it is not likely to be so personable and anthropomorphic as the Christian. I am myself already, God may be God.
If God is all powerful, and infinitely superior to us who is to say that it would not be likely that He would be a personal God? How could a finite being determine what an infinite being would be likely to do?

I know that you are already you, but have you considered that it might be possible to be more you? Have you read Mere Christianity? What are your thoughts on it?
Quote:
How did you pray?
Informally, as a one-sided conversation with whatever might be listening – as I hear one is supposed to, if not using a rote prayer
Prayer should not be a one-sided conversation. You must spend a good portion of time listening to God as well. Next time try asking God to help you understand and then REALLY listen.
 
If God is all powerful, and infinitely superior to us who is to say that it would not be likely that He would be a personal God? How could a finite being determine what an infinite being would be likely to do?
Simple: I cannot comprehend what divinity is like. The gulf of divine superiority is so great I cannot see across it; in order for me to properly perceive a god on a personal level, it would have to lower itself to mine. It is possible that it might do so, but I cannot see why for the life of me.

And I have no evidence to support the idea that our hypothetical God is a personal God, making it rather more likely that if it exists it has not chosen to be personal.
I know that you are already you, but have you considered that it might be possible to be more you?
I don’t see how.
Have you read Mere Christianity? What are your thoughts on it?
I have not read much of Lewis’ theological work, though I’m familiar with many of the concepts he goes over. I know that the first part of Mere Christianity is devoted to a natural moral law, a concept I find no reason or justification for.
Prayer should not be a one-sided conversation. You must spend a good portion of time listening to God as well. Next time try asking God to help you understand and then REALLY listen.
It was only one-sided in that it was kinda like talking to a wall. The wall didn’t respond. I specifically did not pray for faith – it’s hard to think of something more self-defeating or circular.
 
Prayer should not be a one-sided conversation. You must spend a good portion of time listening to God as well. Next time try asking God to help you understand and then REALLY listen.
A two-sided “conversation” on the strength of a self-inflicted cognitive bias?
 
What do the resident Atheists think of Mr. Peter Kreeft’s work?

Here are some of his writings: peterkreeft.com

(Mirdath, there is some stuff on Pascal’s Wager there. I know how much you like that argument. 🙂 )

Also check out the Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli here
 
If God did appear to you personally what kind of proof would He need to provide you that He is indeed God?

Would it not be easier for you to conclude that such an apparition is the result of some psychosis, no matter what proof was offered?
I have no history of hallucination. I don’t do drugs of any kind. I am not under very much stress or anything else. People don’t just spontaneously go into psychosis.

That said, God would need to prove that he was, in fact, God. Perhaps he could show me Heaven. Move a mountain. Regenerate some amputated limbs. Something like that. Something big, that only God could do, that couldn’t be attributed to anything other than a divine being.
 
What do the resident Atheists think of Mr. Peter Kreeft’s work?
In general, though I’m not an atheist, thoroughly unimpressed. Isn’t the Prime Mover argument dead and buried?

He did have one recently about sexuality and salvation that I found quite interesting; of course, that isn’t based in apologetics at all. He draws some conclusions that may shock some of his more devout readers, though 😉
 
What evidence do you have to support that prayer is a “self-inflicted cognitive bias”?
It follows (by definition) from your set of instructions:
You must spend a good portion of time listening to God as well. Next time try asking God to help you understand and then REALLY listen.
You are effectively asking Mirdath to elect a preconception (god exists and obliquely answers) and then apply a confirmation bias (a type of cognitive bias) in support of the elective preconception. You’re also asking him to neglect the probability that prayer is nothing but him talking to himself, another cognitive bias. There are also elements of selective perception, clustering illusion, and illusory correlation.
 
What do the resident Atheists think of Mr. Peter Kreeft’s work?
I am not terribly impressed. Mr. Kreeft’s arguments appear to be written to reassure people who already believe, not to convince those who do not.

As an example, in his Argument from Pascal’s Wager, he addresses only one of the concerns that Mirdath and MerryAtheist brought up: That believing in God only as a bet is not what is required of most major religions. This is a small point, and even Mr. Kreeft admits that it is not an ideal situation and the new believer will have to go further before God is pleased. He fails to address any of the major issues that atheists and agnostics have with the argument.

The other main problem I have with his writing is that in his attempt to relate taking a chance in believing in God to situations with the real world, he sets up situations that are black and white. Either it is sane to take a chance, or it is not. As Mirdath and MerryAtheist pointed out, Pascal’s Wager does not lead to black and white conclusions, there are a myriad of gods/goddesses to believe in, many of whom can be worshiped through different, contradictory religions. Regardless of which one you pick, another is still condemning you to hell.

Oh, and he seems that think that you lose nothing by believing in, and following the commands of, a God who does not exist. I disagree, if you read over these forums, you will find plenty of instances where people have had to sacrifice due to their belief in God. You also risk the possibility that another God does exist and sends you to hell anyway ;).
 
It follows (by definition) from your set of instructions:

You are effectively asking Mirdath to elect a preconception (god exists and obliquely answers) and then apply a confirmation bias (a type of cognitive bias) in support of the elective preconception. You’re also asking him to neglect the probability that prayer is nothing but him talking to himself, another cognitive bias. There are also elements of selective perception, clustering illusion, and illusory correlation.
Could not the same cognitive bias then be applied to the preconception that God does not exist and/or is unable or unwilling to answer prayers?
 
It is possible that it might do so, but I cannot see why for the life of me.
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But again, we are finite creatures and God is an infinite being, so it should not surprise you that you cannot comprehend His ways.
And I have no evidence to support the idea that our hypothetical God is a personal God, making it rather more likely that if it exists it has not chosen to be personal.
Again, how do we know what an infinite being is likely to do. Maybe He has been trying to tell you that He is a personal God and you have not been listening.
I have not read much of Lewis’ theological work, though I’m familiar with many of the concepts he goes over. I know that the first part of Mere Christianity is devoted to a natural moral law, a concept I find no reason or justification for.
Why do you feel that there is no justification for a natural moral law?

You should check out Mere Christianity, I think you will like it.
t was only one-sided in that it was kinda like talking to a wall. The wall didn’t respond. I specifically did not pray for faith – it’s hard to think of something more self-defeating or circular
It is only self-defeating or circular if you begin with the presuppostion that God does not exist and/or is unable or unwilling to answer your prayers. Which kind of defeats the whole purpose of prayer anyways, and is not very scientific or open minded to boot.
 
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