Atheists!

[tGette]

Atheists, I am not here to talk about Christianity or any other religion. I want to know exactly why you do not believe there is a Supreme Being. Whether this God is all-good and all-loving or He is the “Evil Genius” taught by many philosophers, why do you find it so hard to comprehend something created everything?

For the sake of argument let us say that evolution is real and the big bang began everything. What created the means necessary for the Big Bang to take place? What was at hand to spur mutations and changes to cause evolution to take place? Why do you look at a car and know that there was something involved in the creation of it and that it did not simply fall together by chance and at the same time think that trees are a mistake? Why is it so hard to comprehend that the universe was made by God?

Even if the universe is a mistake or some chance, then what was it that made this possible? You are alive and have the ability to disprove there is a God yet you have the audacity to think there is no God that created you and gave you the ability to disprove Him. There is no God who gave you this ability?

Remember: YOU ARE ALIVE! There had to be something that made that possible. Again, if this was random chance, what was it that caused this?

HOW can you believe there is no God?

 

[c659smith]

For the Atheist on this site in the area of your soul I will pray for you.

For you have knowledge of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
and have rejected Him and if continuing on this route will only lead you to darkness.

It is for God to Judge but by rejecting Jesus you reject His mercy.

I for one if judged would lose that court case as I am a sinner and am not perfect.

If I am wrong that God exists then I have lost nothing.

On the other hand if you are wrong that God does not exist then you have lost everything.

Atheism as a whole is a bad bet.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

HOW can you believe there is no God?

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are mainly two types of so-called atheists.

On believes there is God but is just in so much denial that he is hardened to it and fights to keep convincing himself and everyone else that there is none.

The other certainly believes there is God but is simply lying about lack of belief to deceive on behalf of working for Satan.

So I take what they say about their atheism with a big grain of salt.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I can understand someone being an agnostic, not knowing whether or not there is a God. But you have to have a lot of faith to be an atheist! You have to believe that you can know there is no creator It is totally unscientific. It cannot be proven that there is no God. So an atheist has to have a lot more faith than a believer. A believer usually has some reason for his belief in something. Someone he trusts has told him. He has investigated the background of his faith, etc. But to believe in nothing must be much more difficult than believing in something.

What faith those atheists have!

 

[Mirdath]

Well, call me Daniel and throw me to the lions!

tgette:

Even if the universe is a mistake or some chance, then what was it that made this possible?

We’ll find out – maybe. Why do you assume that humanity must already have all the answers to all the questions there are? Is that not an attribute of the divine, not the mundane? Pride, pride!

c659smith:

For the Atheist on this site in the area of your soul I will pray for you.

For you have knowledge of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
and have rejected Him and if continuing on this route will only lead you to darkness.

Might I ask you to throw a few in for the agnostics? I’m not one to turn down favors.

I don’t think saying we heathens have rejected God is quite the right wording, at least in my case and many others. If I knew – that is, believed – and rejected God, I’d be a devil-worshiper, not an agnostic. And on the ‘bad bet’ remark, Pascal’s Wager won’t make anyone believe. It might convince the gullible to pretend to believe, but what good is that?

I did not reject God. I asked, and gained nothing; I sought, and found nothing; I knocked, and no door opened.

FaithOfAbraham:

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are mainly two types of so-called atheists.

On believes there is God but is just in so much denial that he is hardened to it and fights to keep convincing himself and everyone else that there is none.

The other certainly believes there is God but is simply lying about lack of belief to deceive on behalf of working for Satan.

Claire from DE:

What faith those atheists have!

Strong atheists (those who say ‘there is no God’) are rather more rare than ‘weak’ atheists, who really aren’t too different from agnostics. Weak atheists do not assert that God does not exist; they simply do not believe because they have no evidence that he does exist. Strong atheism is a position of faith, yes, but weak atheism is not.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I did not reject God. I asked, and gained nothing; I sought, and found nothing; I knocked, and no door opened.

Did you pray every day for years like I did when I didn’t believe, until I finally did? A lot of people don’t unless they get to a point where nothing else but God can help them. Like the drunks say, when you hit bottom.

If not you didn’t try hard enough, and God knows you didn’t, and so you got what you worked for. A whole lot of nothing.

Then again people are like water, some are made for drinking and watering plants. And some are made for the toilet. So that may be your purpose.

Unless maybe you want to try a little harder to be something more useful.

 

[c659smith]

Well, call me Daniel and throw me to the lions!

We’ll find out – maybe. Why do you assume that humanity must already have all the answers to all the questions there are? Is that not an attribute of the divine, not the mundane? Pride, pride!

Might I ask you to throw a few in for the agnostics? I’m not one to turn down favors.

I don’t think saying we heathens have rejected God is quite the right wording, at least in my case and many others. If I knew – that is, believed – and rejected God, I’d be a devil-worshiper, not an agnostic. And on the ‘bad bet’ remark, Pascal’s Wager won’t make anyone believe. It might convince the gullible to pretend to believe, but what good is that?

I did not reject God. I asked, and gained nothing; I sought, and found nothing; I knocked, and no door opened.



Strong atheists (those who say ‘there is no God’) are rather more rare than ‘weak’ atheists, who really aren’t too different from agnostics. Weak atheists do not assert that God does not exist; they simply do not believe because they have no evidence that he does exist. Strong atheism is a position of faith, yes, but weak atheism is not.

Of course I will pray for you.

What is it you are looking to gain?

Surrender yourself to Jesus.

Did you stop long enough to listen,

where did you knock? church?

go to a catholic church and sit quietly when it is empty, clear everything from your mind.

Our minds are like that of a pail of muddy water. Everything in our lives keeps the waters stirred up and we cannot see the bottom of the pail. Give enough time for the water and dirt and sand to settle to the bottom of the pail

When something enters your mind during this time period clear it by looking at the cross.

Now after about a half hour of this think about your life and what you believe you controlled. I bet it is very little like most of us. think about what Jesus did for you. Now ask what you want and listen.

After this is done tell me about the weight on your shoulders. Give all your hardships and worries to Jesus. stop trying to control everything

Did you ever love? were you ever loved back?

Do you have proof of love? To know love is to allow yoursself to be totally controlled by another and have trust that when you need they wil be there and when they need you will be there no matter what.
Love is to pay the fines of the one you love so that they will be free. Would you go to jail and pay the debt of the one you love. Will you die for the one you love, yes give your life?

Like that love a mother has for her child.

Jesus has loved you that much that He paid your debt, and was beaten,humiliated, and killed so that you can live.

After all this pray the Rosary,go to adoration, and go to Mass really go to mass and be a paticipant not a spectator.

talk to a priest, tell him your lack of faith, ask him for help. but you need to ask----knock-----

Atheism is a bad bet nothing more

 

[Mirdath]

Did you pray every day for years like I did when I didn’t believe, until I finally did?

Prayed and meditated and studied and suffered. Yes, thank you very much, with the exception of ‘until I finally did’.

Then again people are like water, some are made for drinking and watering plants. And some are made for the toilet. So that may be your purpose.

Unless maybe you want to try a little harder to be something more useful.

And there goes any pretense of civil discourse, in and out of this thread in six posts.

I tried to believe; I am more useful without it, without the pain of pretending to be something I am not. You have come to believe; I have not, I do not expect to, and if belief would make me more like you I honestly and humbly pray to a God I do not know that he never, ever allows me anything but my ignorance.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Prayed and meditated and studied and suffered. Yes, thank you very much, with the exception of ‘until I finally did’.

And there goes any pretense of civil discourse, in and out of this thread in six posts.

I tried to believe; I am more useful without it, without the pain of pretending to be something I am not. You have come to believe; I have not, I do not expect to, and if belief would make me more like you I honestly and humbly pray to a God I do not know that he never, ever allows me anything but my ignorance.

I don’t make any apologies. Like I said it’s either stubbornness or lying to make believers stray.

You believe forces of the universe caused it to be what it is, this earth to be what it is, you to be what you are, and control you. Right?

You don’t even have free will, all those little neurons in your head make all your decisions for you, you don’t cause them to do what they do. You are utterly controlled and helpless to the forces of nature. So the sum total of that is your God, you need no further proof of that. You already believe it, you are just in denial that you are helpless and out of control of anything, God controls it all. Even when you die.

The highest expression of God, all these forces of the universe, is humanity. You have proof of that too. So you can put personal qualities to those vague mysterious forces that control everything you do, it’s just like you only a lot bigger and badder.

So you see, you have proof of “a” God right here, I just gave it to you. You just have to do the work to get past denial, just like a drug addict addicted to control, to accept it.

Then you just call out to that God until you hear back, you don’t stop and say oh well, that’s that. Only losers and quitters do that. How long do you have to do it? Until you die maybe, just like a drug addict has to keep trying forever to not use drugs.

So, that’s how all that works.

 

[Mirdath]

Of course I will pray for you.

Thank you

What is it you are looking to gain?

I’m not really looking to gain anything. The idea of God as Your Friend in the Sky (if you’ll pardon the lightheartedness) is alien to me: heathen though I am, when I think on the possibility of seeing the divine, my mind simply won’t go there. How could I hope to understand anything I saw?

I am agnostic not because I can’t make up my mind, but because the very question seems too great for the human brain.

Surrender yourself to Jesus.

Can we work out the whole deity bit before I think about picking one to surrender to? I admire Jesus, I regard him as a great philosopher, orator, and moralist, but I’m pretty sure he was just a man. There’s a callout thread devoted entirely to knocking my philosophy and theology down here if you don’t want to clutter this one up

where did you knock? church?

Yes. I was mostly raised Catholic, and pretty hardline at that.

I actually did go to Mass last weekend, since my mother was in town. It was a moving experience, to see so many people gathered together singing (mostly on-key, even!) the praises and invoking the name of something we cannot hope to comprehend. Seemed even a little foolhardy, perhaps: if one imagines humanity as a village of mice and God as a lion, who wants to take the chance of waking him or attracting his attention? I don’t buy the idea that God must be benevolent. If God shows me he exists, I can certainly see myself believing in and respecting him; worshiping – I’d have to think it over.

That said, I still went and got my throat blessed, being a shameless opportunist and all

 

[Mirdath]

I don’t make any apologies. Like I said it’s either stubbornness or lying to make believers stray.

Suit yourself – but might I put in a good word for basic etiquette? It’s a skill worth pursuing.

You believe forces of the universe caused it to be what it is, this earth to be what it is, you to be what you are, and control you. Right?

I’m with you up until you get to me. I am the master of my existence; look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!

So you see, you have proof of “a” God right here, I just gave it to you. You just have to do the work to get past denial, just like a drug addict addicted to control, to accept it.

Considering I don’t accept your premises and hold your idea of ‘my’ god entirely incompatible with actual divinity, you’ve basically ‘proven’ that dung in the forest is evidence of cities.

 

[MH84]

Mirdath and atheists,

What is your motivation to continue this bittersweet journey which is our lives; this emotional rollercoaster?

Why do you many of you bother waking up 5 days a week to go to work for a boss who probably doesnt care about you and who might be even underpaying you? Why do you bother to love others; what is love and is it even real?

Why are you posting here, I mean why bother?! Are you looking for answers or are you just killing time?

Further, if there is no God, then everything you and this world does or thinks or discovers is in vain and is worthless.

Do you go about your life because doing so is honourable to you? But then again, what is “honour” if there is no eternal life?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Suit yourself – but might I put in a good word for basic etiquette? It’s a skill worth pursuing.

I’m with you up until you get to me. I am the master of my existence; look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!

Considering I don’t accept your premises and hold your idea of ‘my’ god entirely incompatible with actual divinity, you’ve basically ‘proven’ that dung in the forest is evidence of cities.

How can you say the forces of nature don’t control everything you do and cause you to be everything you are, even your neurons which cause your thoughts? That’s a fairly generic description of what God does, creates and controls.

 

[MH84]

I also would love to know, why do most atheists get married and have a family? Why follow what is based on Christian values? Why not have endless, meaningless sex?

Why not enjoy all the pleasures that are possible in this life and then end it?

 

[Plusiplus]

I also would love to know, why do most atheists get married and have a family?

Maybe because of love? I guess most people marry because they want to affirm that they belong to each other. There are plenty of species who live together with their partner as a couple for their whole lives. I highly doubt they are Christian.

Why follow what is based on Christian values?

Honestly, which values are pure Christian? That killing is bad? That stealing is bad? That lying is bad? I don’t know why, but I doubt people ran around killing as many as they could before they got to know about Christianity. Chimpanzees follow several of the basic Christian values too. E.g. they know killing without reason is bad and they know that stealing is bad.

Why not have endless, meaningless sex?

Why would they? Sex sure isn’t that much fun. I don’t know of a single species that have endless meaningless sex, so I don’t understand why atheists would like that idea.

Why not enjoy all the pleasures that are possible in this life and then end it?

I’m pretty sure most people try to maximise their pleasure and joy during their lifetimes. Why would atheists end their lives? They only have one life.

 

[MH84]

Plusiplus,

Maybe because of love? I guess most people marry because they want to affirm that they belong to each other. There are plenty of species who live together with their partner as a couple for their whole lives. I highly doubt they are Christian.

Love? what is love? Isnt it just chemical reactions in the brain?

Honestly, which values are pure Christian? That killing is bad? That stealing is bad? That lying is bad? I don’t know why, but I doubt people ran around killing as many as they could before they got to know about Christianity. Chimpanzees follow several of the basic Christian values too. E.g. they know killing without reason is bad and they know that stealing is bad.

I was talking about the idea of marriage. The permanent union of a woman and man.

Why would they? Sex sure isn’t that much fun. I don’t know of a single species that have endless meaningless sex, so I don’t understand why atheists would like that idea.

Maybe not for you, but many people are slaves to it. Just look on tv or in magazines.

I’m pretty sure most people try to maximise their pleasure and joy during their lifetimes. Why would atheists end their lives? They only have one life.

But what is the value of a human life in an atheists mind? What is a human being to you? Do you classify a human according to what he looks like?

 

[Plusiplus]

Love? what is love? Isnt it just chemical reactions in the brain?

Yes. It’s a chemical reaction that makes people want to spend their lives together with another person, among many other things.

I was talking about the idea of marriage. The permanent union of a woman and man.

First of all I don’t think the idea of a union between a man and a woman is of Christian origin. It’s been around much longer than that. The marriage ceremony is just there to confirm the union to each other and to everyone else. It just makes the couple feel closer than they would have without the ceremony (and all the legal stuff etc).

Maybe not for you, but many people are slaves to it. Just look on tv or in magazines.

Oh, I thought you wondered why atheists don’t have sex 20 hours a day during their whole lives. My answer would be that there is no evolutionary advantage for those who are addicted. The sexual drive is large for some people and small for others. Some people are addicted in the same way as other people can be addicted to pretty much anything.

But what is the value of a human life in an atheists mind? What is a human being to you? Do you classify a human according to what he looks like?

I suppose the value of a human life is pretty much the same as in the mind of a Christian. At least for fetuses which are a few months old and up. Many of our values and behaviours are hard wired but hard wiring a value of e.g. a fertilized egg hasn’t had an evolutionary purpose.

What is a human? Well, nowadays with biotechnology and everything there are so many strange exceptions but the first sentence on Wikipedia sounds good:

Humans, or human beings, are bipedal primates belonging to the mammalian species Homo sapiens (Latin: “wise man” or “knowing man”) in the family Hominidae (the great apes).

Classify a human (as in the Wikipedia definition) according to what he looks like? Do you wonder if I consider a fertilized egg or a fetus to be a human? I don’t know. At least they will be humans after a few months or so.

 

[tGette]

This is not going the way I intended…

A loving God or a vengeful God. A God that hears prayers or a God who does NOT hear prayers. What is your (as an atheist) reason for believing there is NO God. Regardless of His nature. Despite religious beliefs one way or another.

Why do atheists see it so hard to believe some higher power created everything?

 

[MH84]

Yes. It’s a chemical reaction that makes people want to spend their lives together with another person, among many other things.

I don’t know the science, but in my opinion I disagree with this. For an athiest, what is the point of spending your life with one person, or even a spouse? According to evolutionary concepts, doesnt our species desire to procreate with as many females as possible to keep the species alive?

Dare I say it, but your views on love are not atheistic. They are in tune more towards the Christian concept of love. In other words, your ideas of love are very human.

Btw, according to an atheist, whats wrong with infidelity? What if your wife or husband never finds out? For an athiest is it sill “wrong”?

Classify a human (as in the Wikipedia definition) according to what he looks like? Do you wonder if I consider a fertilized egg or a fetus to be a human? I don’t know. At least they will be humans after a few months or so.

I don’t think my intention was to go down this path. I meant do you believe that a human being can be distinguished from the (other) animals by the fact that it contains an soul created for eternal life? Even if a person was born without arms or legs, he is still a human being because of the “type” of soul he has (an eternal one). A human doesnt have to have two legs and walk upright to be human.

 

[MH84]

This is not going the way I intended…

A loving God or a vengeful God. A God that hears prayers or a God who does NOT hear prayers. What is your (as an atheist) reason for believing there is NO God. Regardless of His nature. Despite religious beliefs one way or another.

Why do atheists see it so hard to believe some higher power created everything?

This will not answer your question, but does it matter? If an agnostic for example doesnt acknowledge or form a relationship with God, does it matter whether he believes God actually exists?

Say an atheist becomes agnostic (if thats possible) will his position become any “better”?