Atheists!

[FaithofAbraham]

Hello FOA

I have just read through this thread. You have painted yourself into a corner, congratulations !!

Exactly what religion are you??

Not at all. Everything I say is from the Bible, I’ve supported it with plenty of verses.

 

[drpmjhess]

What do you say contradicts? God created and controls everything, including Satan, I never said anything different.

You said “Your will is either determined by either God or Satan, who God also controls.”

If God controls Satan, Satan cannot determine my will. God is determining it. You contradict yourself in your nonsense.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

You said “Your will is either determined by either God or Satan, who God also controls.”

If God controls Satan, Satan cannot determine my will. God is determining it. You contradict yourself in your nonsense.

Satan is the evil inclination that God created, you just don’t understand what the terms mean.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[Skavau]

God creates good and evil, Satan is that evil force. Because God created and allows it makes no difference to our experience of it.

Satan is only what God commands him to do. In the reality of your own world view, there is no ‘force’ nor ‘evil’ in Satan because he is only a being controlled by God.

All ‘evil’ and ‘good’ acts are ultimately from God under your world view. He is essentially the master puppeteer. Which begs the question: What do you find good about this God that you invoke precisely?

 

[drpmjhess]

Satan is only what God commands him to do. In the reality of your own world view, there is no ‘force’ nor ‘evil’ in Satan because he is only a being controlled by God. All ‘evil’ and ‘good’ acts are ultimately from God under your world view. He is essentially the master puppeteer. Which begs the question: What do you find good about this God that you invoke precisely?

Skavau, I must say I’m stunned both by the chutzpah of FoA’s bizarre “logic” and by his apparent inability to comprehend why his self contradiction is not compelling to others. He or she is not even a consistent Manichaean. In 25 years of teaching philosophy, ethics, logic, and theology, I’ve never encountered anything quite like this, and I have some doozies of students. It’s a fascinating psychological study!

Petrus

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Satan is only what God commands him to do. In the reality of your own world view, there is no ‘force’ nor ‘evil’ in Satan because he is only a being controlled by God.

All ‘evil’ and ‘good’ acts are ultimately from God under your world view. He is essentially the master puppeteer. Which begs the question: What do you find good about this God that you invoke precisely?

God creates evil, so there is evil. The most basic thing that is good about God is that He allows me to exist, everything else is based on that.

 

[Skavau]

Skavau, I must say I’m stunned both by the chutzpah of FoA’s bizarre “logic” and by his apparent inability to comprehend why his self contradiction is not compelling to others. He or she is not even a consistent Manichaean. In 25 years of teaching philosophy, ethics, logic, and theology, I’ve never encountered anything quite like this, and I have some doozies of students. It’s a fascinating psychological study!

Petrus

You are quite right - It is very strange. I honestly wonder what he finds enduring about self-imposed mental slavery.

FaithOfAbraham:

God creates evil, so there is evil. The most basic thing that is good about God is that He allows me to exist, everything else is based on that.

But as far as I’m concerned you don’t exist as an individual under your world view. You exist only as a slave. You exist only as pre-programmed thing to do certain actions. You are nothing but a means to an end.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Skavau, I must say I’m stunned both by the chutzpah of FoA’s bizarre “logic” and by his apparent inability to comprehend why his self contradiction is not compelling to others. He or she is not even a consistent Manichaean. In 25 years of teaching philosophy, ethics, logic, and theology, I’ve never encountered anything quite like this, and I have some doozies of students. It’s a fascinating psychological study!

Petrus

The contradiction you state is a strawman, “with God and Satan co-equals in their contestation over souls in the world.”

I never said they are equals, I said God controls good/yetzer hataov and evil/yetzer hara/Satan. That’s just a basic Jewish idea.

Goodness goes with God, evil doesn’t. Evil is here so we can know that it is better to go with God.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

But as far as I’m concerned you don’t exist as an individual under your world view. You exist only as a slave. You exist only as pre-programmed thing to do certain actions. You are nothing but a means to an end.

Who cares as long as you enjoy it. In my view there is no end anyway, this is only a temporary state and then we exist as something better where there is no more evil.

 

[1234]

I can understand someone being an agnostic, not knowing whether or not there is a God. But you have to have a lot of faith to be an atheist! You have to believe that you can know there is no creator It is totally unscientific. It cannot be proven that there is no God. So an atheist has to have a lot more faith than a believer. A believer usually has some reason for his belief in something. Someone he trusts has told him. He has investigated the background of his faith, etc. But to believe in nothing must be much more difficult than believing in something.

What faith those atheists have!

They have faith in their own reason and on the evidence of history and science.

 

[c659smith]

They have faith in their own reason and on the evidence of history and science.

Show me history and science that God does not exist?

Be careful you are getting ready to fall on your face before you answer this.

 

[c659smith]

God creates evil, so there is evil. The most basic thing that is good about God is that He allows me to exist, everything else is based on that.

God gives us free will. It was basic in the beginning do not eat from that tree. We chose with our free will to eat of the tree of knowledge and then knew good and evil.

 

[rossum]

What do you say contradicts? God created and controls everything, including Satan, I never said anything different.

So, God controls Satan and Satan controlled Stalin. Hence all of Stalin’s actions were (indirectly) controlled by God.

You want me to worship this God of yours? Hmmm, I’ll get back to you on that one.

rossum

 

[FaithofAbraham]

So, God controls Satan and Satan controlled Stalin. Hence all of Stalin’s actions were (indirectly) controlled by God.

You want me to worship this God of yours? Hmmm, I’ll get back to you on that one.

rossum

Do what you want. God controls everything.

 

[Skavau]

Do what you want. God controls everything.

Under world view, rossum can’t do anything at all that he wants to.

 

[Jonathan82]

God made Free will. The Devil has Free will thats why he is were he is. God only allows things to happen when he wants them to.

 

[rossum]

Do what you want. God controls everything.

How can I do what I want? At best I can do what I think I want, but in reality God is controlling what I think and do either directly or indirectly through Satan. I have no free will, only the illusion of free will.

rossum

 

[Filius99993]

How can I do what I want? At best I can do what I think I want, but in reality God is controlling what I think and do either directly or indirectly through Satan. I have no free will, only the illusion of free will.

rossum

Nah, God gave all things freewill. You have the freewill to believe that you have the illusion of freewill that doesn’t actually exist, but really does.