Atheists:

[racing59]

No I do not know the ingredients of a McDonalds cheeseburger, but it’s still a McDonalds cheeseburger, not just a cheeseburger. I eat cheeseburgers, but I am lucky enough to get the meat from my own cattle. I do not eat burgers from McDonalds.

My point was not to offend,but to show that some other people do not take things on Faith. Some wish to know all the indgredents they are taken in so they can digest it properly, while others just want a cheeseburger and do not care whats in it.What I do not understand are the people that get offended when you question something.

 

[atheist1]

I do not know what that is referring to as far as the “tokens of virginity”. But I bet there wasnt as much of a problem with promiscuity then.

I agree, there probably wasn’t much promiscuity. But, is promiscuity worthy of the death sentence? I would be stunned and hurt deeply if I found that my wife had commited adultery but I would not think the act worthy of her death. In particular I don’t think her worthy of death because of a sexual encounter before we wed.

On to the tokens of virginity…

It would make sense that the tokens of virginity would be the bloody bed sheets which would be an indication of the wifes virginity. This also seems to be the consensus at various Christian sites that cover this issue.

Living in the 21st century we realize that a virgin may not, for a variety of reasons, bleed the first time she has sex. So the “tokens of virginity” would at best be circmstantial evidence of the womans previous sexual activity.

The womans life is at stake based on flimsy evidence. Evidence demanded by a supposed all knowing god.

It is these kinds of things laid out in scripture that lead me to the conclusion that if there is a god, he isn’t the one a lot of Christians believe in. How could an all knowing god prescribe such a procedure when a young womans life lies in the balance?

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I don’t believe you have a wonderful life. May God have mercy on your soul.

Just because you don’t believe it, doesn’t make it untrue. I am in a very happy state of mind. I’ll enjoy it while it lasts and take down any obstacle in my way.

Neurotically Yours.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I am curious why such a hardcore agnostic would participate in something such as lent. It’s like a hardcore vegan going to a pig roast.

Most agnostics dont need faith, especially the hardcore ones that participate in lent.

I understand your curiosity. I simply enjoy being with my family. If participating in the season of Lent makes them happy, then I will do it out of love for them.

Ironically Yours.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

part of the problem is your a kid… i saw your post about satanism and you are in a period in your life when you think that you have answers but you have none. to me its funny, while you are condesending to the posters on this site most have experienced more than you. What life will teach you is that you know nothing, humility will serve you well wether you believe in God or not… keep on testing and challenging people you will get the answers you want. Peace

What are you talking about? :ehh: I know I don’t have the answers, which is precisely why I am no longer a Catholic. It’s ridiculous, to me, to be so sure that a God exists or that He doesn’t–as I’ve continued to say: I will never say a God exists or is nonexistent because it’s just not my style to be so selfish or closeminded.

Ironically Yours.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

There have been many atheists who have come to these forums and became Catholic after realizing about Jesus. I believe this may be the case here down the road.

 

[fishisgood]

What are you talking about? :ehh: I know I don’t have the answers, which is precisely why I am no longer a Catholic. It’s ridiculous, to me, to be so sure that a God exists or that He doesn’t–as I’ve continued to say: I will never say a God exists or is nonexistent because it’s just not my style to be so selfish or closeminded.

Ironically Yours.

If you are not sure then why come on a Catholic site to create doubt in others… wouldnt you, just in case they are right, veer from turning people away from God… That is the Athiests job for they believe religion is dangerous… You also cant be sure that the Universal church is wrong. Hopefully you will see Gods miracle… its right in front of you… its flesh and love, loving your neighbor and humanity, its science, its this planet rotating amidst chaos all the while supporting reality and life as you know it. What is mans is corruption, hatred, violence. Your aversion to God is mans interpriation of God not God which we dont understand. Gods rules are made clear to us not his plan. That said just because a person is so called “religous” doesnt mean they are following what is revealed. I emplore you to read or reread the story of the good Sumaritan… So in your smug comments I ask what is wrong with people gathering to worship up… or confess their sins because they are truely sorry… that is humility not pride which I think is what you see when you look at organized religon

 

[fishisgood]

There have been many atheists who have come to these forums and became Catholic after realizing about Jesus. I believe this may be the case here down the road.

the athiests and agnostics that come on here to speak are prolly Saints in the making:thumbsup: God may have brought them here.

 

[ralphinal]

What you are not seeing is the REASON that God ordered such things. There is much more to the story than just preventing promiscuity. Much, much more. As I Catholic, I do get my information about God from the sources that you list, but the Teaching of the Church is considered the inspired by God as well. Have you ever studied what Catholics understand about GOd?

 

[atheist1]

What you are not seeing is the REASON that God ordered such things. There is much more to the story than just preventing promiscuity. Much, much more. As I Catholic, I do get my information about God from the sources that you list, but the Teaching of the Church is considered the inspired by God as well. Have you ever studied what Catholics understand about GOd?

What of the tokens of virginity? A womans life hangs in the balance based on evidence that is certainly less than conclusive. A virgin will not necessarily bleed during her first sexual encounter yet we have the scriptures using the tokens of her virginity as the basis of proving her virginity up to the time she and her husband consumated their relationship.

I used to be Catholic and didn’t mean to insinuate that the teaching of the Catholic Church is, to a Catholic at least, less than inspired.

 

[ralphinal]

What of the tokens of virginity? A womans life hangs in the balance based on evidence that is certainly less than conclusive. A virgin will not necessarily bleed during her first sexual encounter yet we have the scriptures using the tokens of her virginity as the basis of proving her virginity up to the time she and her husband consumated their relationship.

Moot point today. First, non-Jewish Christians are not required to follow those laws, per the Council of Jerusalem. So, it does not matter to me one way or another. You are correct that in modern times, the lack of them would be a major issue. If I wanted to use the All-Knowing aspect of God as a rule of thumb, I would say that the fact that this is no longer a part of the Law of the Faith is proven to be a positive.

I used to be Catholic and didn’t mean to insinuate that the teaching of the Catholic Church is, to a Catholic at least, less than inspired.

I did not mean to say you did. If that is how it came across, I am sorry. I meant no offense. I did not know your previous religious background.

Hopefully, you learned about the Catholic understanding of God and how we see Him in the Scriptures, right?

 

[atheist1]

Moot point today. First, non-Jewish Christians are not required to follow those laws, per the Council of Jerusalem. So, it does not matter to me one way or another. You are correct that in modern times, the lack of them would be a major issue. If I wanted to use the All-Knowing aspect of God as a rule of thumb, I would say that the fact that this is no longer a part of the Law of the Faith is proven to be a positive.

It’s a moot point as far as Christians not being under the law. Do you believe the verses I quoted from Deuteronomy to be inspired?

I did not mean to say you did. If that is how it came across, I am sorry. I meant no offense. I did not know your previous religious background.

You didn’t come across in a bad way at all.

Hopefully, you learned about the Catholic understanding of God and how we see Him in the Scriptures, right?

I have an understanding of how some Catholics understand God. As you probably know, even with the various encyclicals, council documents, catechisms, etc. there is still some “wiggle” room on various topics.

 

[ralphinal]

It’s a moot point as far as Christians not being under the law. Do you believe the verses I quoted from Deuteronomy to be inspired?

Yes, it is inspired. However, in Acts 15:20, the only Laws that apply to Gentile Christians are listed. None of them have to do with stoning anyone or checking virginity.

You didn’t come across in a bad way at all.

Good. I try to make the effort not to.

I have an understanding of how some Catholics understand God. As you probably know, even with the various encyclicals, council documents, catechisms, etc. there is still some “wiggle” room on various topics.

True, but some of that is because of a human trying to grasp the mind of God.

One of the classic examples that some Atheists use is that of God hating or being wrathful. I am glad that you have yet to use that one.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

If you are not sure then why come on a Catholic site to create doubt in others… wouldnt you, just in case they are right, veer from turning people away from God… That is the Athiests job for they believe religion is dangerous… You also cant be sure that the Universal church is wrong. Hopefully you will see Gods miracle… its right in front of you… its flesh and love, loving your neighbor and humanity, its science, its this planet rotating amidst chaos all the while supporting reality and life as you know it. What is mans is corruption, hatred, violence. Your aversion to God is mans interpriation of God not God which we dont understand. Gods rules are made clear to us not his plan. That said just because a person is so called “religous” doesnt mean they are following what is revealed. I emplore you to read or reread the story of the good Sumaritan… So in your smug comments I ask what is wrong with people gathering to worship up… or confess their sins because they are truely sorry… that is humility not pride which I think is what you see when you look at organized religon

I came to this site as a Catholic. As far as worship is concerned, I know there is nothing wrong with it, so long as the people are responsible.

Ironically Yours.

 

[atheist1]

Yes, it is inspired. However, in Acts 15:20, the only Laws that apply to Gentile Christians are listed. None of them have to do with stoning anyone or checking virginity.

Okay, I agree with you that at the Council of Jerusalem the apostles seemingly did away with much of the requirments of the law.

The thing that bothers me about the verses I quoted is that why would an all knowing god use the tokens of virginity to establish whether or not a woman was in fact a virgin? Again, a woman could be a virgin and for a variety of reason not have any bleeding during sexual intercourse. So, according to the law in deuteronomy a woman could very well be a virgin, lack the necessary tokens of virginity and be put to death, all the while being completely innocent. Apparently this law and it’s inherent problems regarding evidence was not only allowed by god but also designed by god.

Why would god, who is supposed to be all knowing and benevolent, design such a law based on flawed evidence (virgins don’t all bleed during their first sexual encounter)? Especially since a womans life hangs in the balance of evidence that no modern doctor would accept.

One of the classic examples that some Atheists use is that of God hating or being wrathful. I am glad that you have yet to use that one.

Well, I do think the scriptures portray god as being wrathful at times. Do you disagree?

 

[bradwill911]

I’m not trying to debate this point, because I think it is pointless, but do you consider yourself to be generally more intelligent or more advanced than Christians or theists in general?

Thanks!

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I’m not trying to debate this point, because I think it is pointless, but do you consider yourself to be generally more intelligent or more advanced than Christians or theists in general?

Thanks!

Personally, no. Towards some Christians/theists, you can’t help but want to ask them, “Why don’t you see through this?” Other times, you set it aside because that person set aside their beliefs, and you feel a rush of gratitude towards them.

But, if I might speak for the hardcore Atheists (even though I’m a hardcore Agnostic), yes. Yes, they do (compared to Creationists, those against homosexuality for Bibly reasons, or people like Pat Robertson). And to figure that out, all you have to do is read the YouTube comments on religious or Atheist videos. It’s unfortunate, but what can you do?

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[bradwill911]

Personally, no. Towards some Christians/theists, you can’t help but want to ask them, “Why don’t you see through this?” Other times, you set it aside because that person set aside their beliefs, and you feel a rush of gratitude towards them.

But, if I might speak for the hardcore Atheists (even though I’m a hardcore Agnostic), yes. Yes, they do (compared to Creationists, those against homosexuality for Bibly reasons, or people like Pat Robertson). And to figure that out, all you have to do is read the YouTube comments on religious or Atheist videos. It’s unfortunate, but what can you do?

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

I’ve never not believed, but I’ve talked quite a bit with Atheists/Agnostics and I can see where many are coming from. Ironically, you want to ask theists “Why don’t you see through this?” and I’m quite certain that theists would like to ask you the same thing.

One thing that seems to be common with Atheists is that they have intellectualized their position based mostly on a faith in science. If ___ is correct, then Christianity cannot be correct, therefore God probably doesn’t exist. I’m honestly just trying to understand what leads someone to disbelief.

I do agree with you that there are many less than charitable “Christians” who post comments on youtube and elsewhere. Just because someone identifies himself as a Christian, doesn’t make it so. As Jesus said, “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven…” I’m not trying to get preachy, but a lack of charity among a group of “Christians” does not disprove Christianity, but I think you know that.

Peace.

 

[Suat]

I know there are at least a few atheists who post here and also on other Christian forums. I’m wondering why. As an atheist, why do you care that people believe in God?

Curiosity? Bordem? Amusement? Threats of hellfire and damnation? Maybe all of the above. I was more or less pushed into studying religion and philosophy in university thanks to the reaction of ‘religious’ people to finding out that I was an atheist. While I do not regret that, per se, it has led to a fascination with different belief systems, what people believe, why they believe it, how it compares to the beliefs of those around them, and what (if anything) would ever cause them to change their minds. Understanding your beliefs actually helps me understand myself and my beliefs better, as I am not arrogant enough to think that I know all the answers. As for this forum in specific, my family is Catholic, it helps to know what they believe and why, even if I do not share those beliefs.

I would think that you couldn’t care less if there are believers, yet you try to convince people to stop believing.

I could not care less what you believe, provided that it has no impact on me. Unfortunately, what you believe actually does have an impact on me, as many religious people want their morals and their beliefs to be those of the general public.

 

[bradwill911]

In what ways are Christians negatively impacting your life? Do you believe that if you could convert theists into atheists, your life would be less impacted?

Thanks for sharing!