Atheists:

[mhpierce]

I’m neither frightened or unhappy nor do I need the “true sacraments”.

I do not believe you; you must be lying to yourself; anyone without sanctifying grace is miserable, generally, a confused person grasping at false and man-made philosophical structures that are filled with lies and confusion; some Atheists are truly desperate, confused, unhappy adults. All human beings need the Sacraments, as they are channels of grace that are a gift from God, Our Creator, and the only means of salvation on planet Earth. Atheists are generally argumentative, deeply arrogant and proud souls who often do not klnow any real Salvation History, much less that Jesus Christ is God’s greatest gift to mankind. Athesists are sad people generally, with a plethora of emotonial problems, are deeply undisciplined and disordered, infectious malcontents too!

 

[Suat]

In what ways are Christians negatively impacting your life?

My life is not currently being impacted by Christianity (beisdes the fact that absolutely nothing is open on Sundays), mainly because I live in a fairly non-religious, liberal area and I happen to be straight. However, I have family and friends in other areas who have been denied marriage, visiting a deathly ill spouse, birth control and medical procedures due to the so called moral values of people.

Do you believe that if you could convert theists into atheists, your life would be less impacted?

No. I long ago learned that certain people will cling to certain beliefs, regardless of the reasoning behind those beliefs. Religion provides a nice excuse for them to do so, because they can simple point to some verses in their preferred text. However, ending religion will not change what they believe. And not all religious belief is bad.

 

[bradwill911]

Suat,

So what I’m understanding is that you oppose Christians from imposing your morals on you, but you do not oppose imposing your morals on them?

The easiest example of this is abortion. To you (I’m assuming here), if abortion was not allowed, this would be an example of Christians imposing their morals on you, thus denying you of your freedom to choose.

To a Christian, allowing abortion is you imposing your beliefs on them to a point where they now live in a society that allows murder. It is not my place to declare which one is right. I obviously am pro-life, as a Catholic. Either way you cut it, one group is having another group impose something on it, right?

Peace.

 

[phantasm]

I do not believe you; you must be lying to yourself; anyone without sanctifying grace is miserable, generally, a confused person grasping at false and man-made philosophical structures that are filled with lies and confusion; some Atheists are truly desperate, confused, unhappy adults. All human beings need the Sacraments, as they are channels of grace that are a gift from God, Our Creator, and the only means of salvation on planet Earth. Atheists are generally argumentative, deeply arrogant and proud souls who often do not klnow any real Salvation History, much less that Jesus Christ is God’s greatest gift to mankind. Athesists are sad people generally, with a plethora of emotonial problems, are deeply undisciplined and disordered, infectious malcontents too!

So, tell us how you really feel?

Briefly, as a practicing Catholic, I led a life of anxiety, fear, frustration and moderate unhappiness

As an atheist, I live a life free of anxiety, free of religious arrogance, free of supernatural delusion, free of superstitions and I’m allot happier.

What happens when I die? Most likely non-existence and it will feel just like it did before I was born, nothing to get myself worked up about that’s for sure.

Your post leads me to believe that you are an excessively judgmental person. You actually sit there and write that all human beings need the sacraments.

What about the humans who lived for the previous 198,000 years before sacraments or your Jesus even existed?

What about the 5.5 billion non-Catholics who do not partake in the sacraments?

I’ll have to remind you, that your claim that Jesus is the greatest gift that God could ever have given mankind, again, 5.5 billion people would not agree with you.

I’ll have to also remind you, that your claim that Christianity is the only means of salvation, again, 5.5 billion people would not agree with you. In fact, some would even tell you, that it is you who worships a false God and it is they who worship a real God or Gods.

You need to do a lot more thinking and a lot less judging.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

So, tell us how you really feel?

Briefly, as a practicing Catholic, I led a life of anxiety, fear, frustration and moderate unhappiness

As an atheist, I live a life free of anxiety, free of dogmatic arrogance and I am allot happier.

Your post leads me to believe that you are an excessively judgmental person. You actually sit there and write that all human beings need the sacraments.

What about the humans who lived for the previous 198,000 years before sacraments or your Jesus even existed?

What about the 5.5 billion non-Catholics who do not partake in the sacraments?

You need to do a lot more thinking and a lot less judging.

This post is a joke and sounds like desperation.
Christian/Catholics have always practiced the Sacraments since the beginning, since the early church in the first century. Do some history lessons before you continue to make a fool out of yourself.

 

[phantasm]

This post is a joke and sounds like desperation.
Christian/Catholics have always practiced the Sacraments since the beginning, since the early church in the first century. Do some history lessons before you continue to make a fool out of yourself.

Estimates place the existence of the human species upon earth, between 100,000 and 250,000 years.

That means that human beings have lived anywhere from 98,000 and 248,000 years without the sacraments.

Why do you find this reality one that causes you to place a ’ rolling on the floor ’ laughing smily at the end of your post?

Are you laughing at all the people who lived and died without the sacraments, for their bad luck for having been born before 33 AD?

 

[ralphinal]

Okay, I agree with you that at the Council of Jerusalem the apostles seemingly did away with much of the requirments of the law.

The thing that bothers me about the verses I quoted is that why would an all knowing god use the tokens of virginity to establish whether or not a woman was in fact a virgin? Again, a woman could be a virgin and for a variety of reason not have any bleeding during sexual intercourse. So, according to the law in deuteronomy a woman could very well be a virgin, lack the necessary tokens of virginity and be put to death, all the while being completely innocent. Apparently this law and it’s inherent problems regarding evidence was not only allowed by god but also designed by god.

Why would god, who is supposed to be all knowing and benevolent, design such a law based on flawed evidence (virgins don’t all bleed during their first sexual encounter)? Especially since a womans life hangs in the balance of evidence that no modern doctor would accept.

Not that there is any way to proove either side, but I would bet that the odds of there being noticeable bleeding in that era was much greater. The age of marriage was younger and there were no tampons used. Further, many girls today “loose” their hyman through activities that the ancients would have fainted at the thought of, like gymnastics! Now, why did God order this? Because he was removing Egypt from the Jews. Not just Egypt, but the entire area in that era had different views on sex and sexuality than God was trying to teach to the Children of Israel.

Well, I do think the scriptures portray god as being wrathful at times. Do you disagree?

Yes, but how much of that is a human trying to grasp the actions of God? Or even God trying to explain to a human? The infinite cannot be contained in the finite.

 

[Suat]

So what I’m understanding is that you oppose Christians from imposing your morals on you, but you do not oppose imposing your morals on them?

I have little interest in imposing my morals on Christians. I would never force them to do or not do something that we disagree on.

The easiest example of this is abortion. To you (I’m assuming here), if abortion was not allowed, this would be an example of Christians imposing their morals on you, thus denying you of your freedom to choose.

I do not believe that I have stated my thoughts on abortion, and I have no intention of doing so.

To a Christian, allowing abortion is you imposing your beliefs on them to a point where they now live in a society that allows murder.

You already live in a society that allows, endorses and seeks out murder. A surprising amount of Christians in the US are even fully behind this. Please do not pretend that allowing or not allowing abortion will change that.

Either way you cut it, one group is having another group impose something on it, right?

Quite possibly, since you seem to think that things are being imposed on you if they are allowed at all. I personally disagree with that statement for most cases. So then the question is, where do you draw the line?

 

[bradwill911]

I do not believe that I have stated my thoughts on abortion, and I have no intention of doing so.

That’s fine, I’m not trying to create an abortion debate. Please assume the situation is hypothetical, the point remains.

You already live in a society that allows, endorses and seeks out murder. A surprising amount of Christians in the US are even fully behind this. Please do not pretend that allowing or not allowing abortion will change that.

Maybe you can explain this one to me. I don’t live in a society that seeks out murder that I know of. I also don’t see how anyone is pretending that allowing abortion will change that. If you are a Christian, you believe abortion is murder, that is not pretend. My point, again, isn’t to discuss abortion, but rather to illustrate that in opposing world views, one side is always going to have something imposed on them by the other side. So, yes, if you allow something, it is the same as having it imposed on you. Where the line is drawn, I do not know. When it comes to protecting human life, where should one draw the line? I’m assuming that you are not in favor of pedophilia or incest so you have also drawn a line somewhere.

 

[mhpierce]

"As an atheist, I live a life free of anxiety, free of religious arrogance, free of supernatural delusion, free of superstitions and I’m allot happier.

What happens when I die? Most likely non-existence and it will feel just like it did before I was born, nothing to get myself worked up about that’s for sure.

Your post leads me to believe that you are an excessively judgmental person. You actually sit there and write that all human beings need the sacraments.

What about the humans who lived for the previous 198,000 years before sacraments or your Jesus even existed?

What about the 5.5 billion non-Catholics who do not partake in the sacraments?

I’ll have to remind you, that your claim that Jesus is the greatest gift that God could ever have given mankind, again, 5.5 billion people would not agree with you.

I’ll have to also remind you, that your claim that Christianity is the only means of salvation, again, 5.5 billion people would not agree with you. In fact, some would even tell you, that it is you who worships a false God and it is they who worship a real God or Gods.

You need to do a lot more thinking and a lot less judging"

I am quoting doctrine, and I stand by everything I have said; I am, thus not being “judgemental,” a catchphrase too many people use today that’s suppose to end all discussion. I am being factual however, somthing you do not like, as it may require meditation on your part, as you would rather answer concerns aboutthe idea of Atheism simplistically, instead of discussing it as an anomoly. And thus when you are called, “judgemental,” it is suppose to “render one silent” somehow, as if the person was truly guilt of something horrendous–which is silly. It’s also a lot of hogwash, and a word used by peope who evade a point, actually the use of it in a serious discussion is an “infantile evasion…” often, hardly a discussion about something serious, subjects based on Divine Revelations especially.

Only Catholic doctrines are truths, revealed by God, ***One Doctrine we hold to is that those who persist and die in mortal sin are in danger of going to hell, unless they have made a death bed plea of mercy… ***Most of the millions you speak about, will go to hell, as the Saints have attested to it abundently, as did the Blessed virgin Mary at Fatima, when She gave a glimpse of hell to the three shepherd children to whom she appeared. Heaven, hell and purgatory are real “places,” and there is enough proof of them since they were revealed… Very few, when they die go to heaven, many go to purgatory and thousands of souls fall into hell like snowflakes…

Kindly do some homework about Catholic traditions, doctrines and dogmas. I am sorry you are not longer “Catholic;” it sounds like you were a very poor one at that, if you really were one to begin with… There are so few real Catholics left, since Vatican Two ended and anti-pope Paul VI changed the matter, form and words of six sacraments… Those “Catholics” who adhere to these are in error and are not practicing the Faith as it was practiced Apostolically up until then.

 

[Suat]

Maybe you can explain this one to me. I don’t live in a society that seeks out murder that I know of. I also don’t see how anyone is pretending that allowing abortion will change that.

The death penalty is still in use in many states in the US, and currently two wars are being fought. Now, regardless of whether or not the wars are justified, the end result will be thousands of people (some innocent, some not) are killed, usually intentionally. The US is literally spending hundreds of billions in wars, part of which is going to subsidizing death and destruction. Pretty cool to think about.

Where the line is drawn, I do not know. When it comes to protecting human life, where should one draw the line? I’m assuming that you are not in favor of pedophilia or incest so you have also drawn a line somewhere.

Yes, I agree that the line should be drawn somewhere. I do not think that children have the mental capacity to make reasonable decisions regarding sex, so I am again pedophilia and incest for that reason. That said, I am not against incest in the case of two grown adults, provided no children come from the union. As to where the line should be drawn, I draw it as where the actions begin to harm other people. Seems reasonable enough to my non-religious mind.

 

[bradwill911]

The death penalty is still in use in many states in the US, and currently two wars are being fought. Now, regardless of whether or not the wars are justified, the end result will be thousands of people (some innocent, some not) are killed, usually intentionally. The US is literally spending hundreds of billions in wars, part of which is going to subsidizing death and destruction. Pretty cool to think about.

As a Catholic, the Church teaches that the death penalty is okay IF it is used when there is no other means to protect the society (extremely rare if ever). Here’s a quote from the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, "Ending the death penalty would be one important step away from a culture of death and toward building a culture of life.”

Remember too, that the Catholic Church has always referred to the war in Iraq as unjust, since the beginning. I understand where you are coming from, but I don’t think your examples are from what I would call a Christian culture, not from a Catholic perspective.

 

[bradwill911]

Blade and Blood,

I just finished re-reading Mere Christianity and wanted to share this quote with you. Just thought of you when I read it:

“When a young man who has been going to church in a routine way honestly realises that he does not believe in Christianity and stops going–provided he does it for honesty’s sake and not just to annoy his parents–the spirit of Christ is probably nearer to him then than it ever was before.”

Peace.

 

[phantasm]

I’m being factual however,

Facts are backed up by testable theories and observable evidence. You offer neither. Your offer nothing more than belief by faith, a far cry from what is a fact.

Only Catholic doctrines are truths, revealed by God,

So say your religious leaders.

Very few, when they die go to heaven,

Correct, God with his omniscience, has always known that the majority of his children will be eternally damned to hell.

I am sorry you are not longer "Catholic;

Don’t be, I’m not, not in the least. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

 

[mhpierce]

Facts are backed up by testable theories and observable evidence. You offer neither. Your offer nothing more than belief by faith, a far cry from what is a fact.
So say your religious leaders.
Correct, God with his omniscience, has always known that the majority of his children will be eternally damned to hell.
Don’t be, I’m not, not in the least. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

My Skeptical Friend:

Have you ever read about or heard of the term:*** Historical Spiritual Fact or Facts?*** For our purposes we shall call them HSFS.

HSFS 1. Jesus Rose From the Dead Three Days Minus a Few Hours After He Was Murdered on a Cross at A Roman Crucifixion–there were witnesses. The “facts” are of public record.

HSFS 2. The Scriptures Are Factual Historically, but Often Debated as such–while other historians of the time are considered sacrosanct. There are many predictions in Scripture, namely Matthew 24, that are coming to fruition now.

HSFS 3. Thousands saw Christ perform many miracles out of love.

HSFS 4. Marian Apparitions have been approved by the Church for centuries, including the miracles and experiences at Fatima, Portugal and Lourdes, France, and the miracles associated with them were seen by many hundreds, including a slew of physicians in Lourdes, who have declared that 66 cures are miraculous–something few doctors venture forth to proclaim unless they are convinced–scientifically.

HSFS 5. Many of the subsequent Popes after Peter, especially the first 10 centuries after the Ascension, performed miracles, that were witnessed by many, and examined and deemed worthy of belief.

HSFS 6. Watch the new film, The 13th Day, when it finally opens in theaters–you may get a surprise and your “Faith” may be restored. It is a factual account of The Miracle of the Sun, (that took place on October 13, 1917, that thousands withessed, including atheists!) and the previous experiences of three shepherd children at Fatima, when the Blessed Mother appeared to them on the 13 day of each month starting on May 13, 1917. Her predictions of the 13th of July, 1917, written down and published by Sister Lucy Dos Santos, one of the original visionaries, have all come to pass, including the present Third Secret that predicted The Present Apostasy in the Church, a Second World War and persecutions of the Pope and in the Church, due to the errors of Russia…(We know what those are and were…)

I could write volumes… …of facts proclaimed and defended by Holy Mother Church. Hundreds of others have so why not read about them–Saint Anthony of Padua for example… Padre Pio for another and then there is the stigmata given to Pio and Saint Francis and Saint Catherine of Siena that hundreds have witnessed. Or are all of these people in history deluded, wrong, and only you are “right?” about “Facts (that–parenthesis mine) are backed up by testable theories and observable evidence.?” Well I just presented some for you edification…

Are you not being “judgemental” though, picking and chosing “facts” that only you consider credible?

Do not facts speak for themselves or is everything a delusion on some level, as many have spouted.

Are you not being a little too precipitious about your supposed choice of what you will consider facts in history? It’s as it seems to me I am afraid: you were once a very poor Catholic, or you would not have stated what you have about facts. Is that not true?

When I see a miracle, as I am a rational being living in the natural order, I believe it was caused by God, who founded One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, in which many miracles have been substantiated.

Miracles often increase the dearth of faith of people whose charity has grown cold, whose faith has become indifferent.

And, Yes I have had “Supernatural Experiences” and they were as real as eating a juicy sirloin steak! Every time I assist at the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass–I witness a miracle… Transubstantiation…

Care to retort?

 

[phantasm]

The age of marriage was younger and there were no tampons used.

I am speechless at your nonsensical response. This is the type of post that could end up on fundies say the darndest things.

If this is the best you can come up with in order defend the creator of the universe, then please, take my advice;

Keep Silent.

 

[ralphinal]

I am speechless at your nonsensical response. This is the type of post that could end up on fundies say the darndest things.

If this is the best you can come up with in order defend the creator of the universe, then please, take my advice;

Keep Silent.

I assure you that my answer is both accurate and logical. It is not my problem if you cannot follow it, but in the interest of discussion, what is the issue in your mind?

 

[alekzander]

I believe in Christ because he is a historical figure even outside of the bible. Josephus wrote about his execution by Crucifixion by the Romans. The blood of the saints and early Christians also confirms my faith. Thousands died brutal deaths by lions, crucifixion, being sawed alive,etc. The fact that the bible mentions the Apostles as being weak and timid and denying Christ to suddenly speaking in different languages and being bold in proclaiming Christ even under the threat of death. The fact that a Roman emporer Constantine actually became a Christian also leads me to believe that there is something to this thing called christianity. How someone can deny all these facts and simply live with a worldview with no hope is beyond me. GOD has so much planned for people if they just have faith. My existence would be hopeless without faith. I always think about the early Christians and what they had to go through and I just hope that I would be strong and not fail if I were put to the test. The fact that the Catholic Church has been around for 2,000 years and has the info to prove it is simply amazing.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I’ve never not believed, but I’ve talked quite a bit with Atheists/Agnostics and I can see where many are coming from. Ironically, you want to ask theists “Why don’t you see through this?” and I’m quite certain that theists would like to ask you the same thing.

One thing that seems to be common with Atheists is that they have intellectualized their position based mostly on a faith in science. If ___ is correct, then Christianity cannot be correct, therefore God probably doesn’t exist. I’m honestly just trying to understand what leads someone to disbelief.

I do agree with you that there are many less than charitable “Christians” who post comments on youtube and elsewhere. Just because someone identifies himself as a Christian, doesn’t make it so. As Jesus said, “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven…” I’m not trying to get preachy, but a lack of charity among a group of “Christians” does not disprove Christianity, but I think you know that.

Peace.

Response to your first paragraph: Atheists have seen enough in Christianity, that’s why they became Atheists in the first place. Some do go back, though.

Response to your second: Science may be a major factor in Atheism, but many Atheists (believe it or not) started doubting when they the Bible from cover to cover. I thought that was interesting.

Response to your third: Well, the definiton of Christian is generally a follower of Christ. I’m not sure if there is anyone who follows his teachings absolutely, but if someone says they are a practicing Christian and have proven it in some way, then, they’re Christian. But, I know exactly what you’re talking about: Some Atheist who’s alright with freedom of religion will say that the Atheist destroying the nativity scene isn’t a real Atheist, just a really horrible person.

Ironically Yours.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

In what ways are Christians negatively impacting your life? Do you believe that if you could convert theists into atheists, your life would be less impacted?

Thanks for sharing!

Negatively? They’re all calling me “evil” and “stupid.” It’s tough, too, because the majority of my English class (that’s where the problems are) are Christian–but what do I care? I have a B in that class.

If theists became atheists, things would not be easier, just different.

Ironically Yours.