Atheists:

[Snerticus]

Snerticus;4990624:

Blade, there’s no use being in a religion you don’t understand or feel. Sometimes God pushes people away so they can see the bigger picture…QUOTE]

Snert:

What, Catholicism is a matter of feeling? Obedience can be dry, unless it is wetted by the blood of the Martyrs–which they feel.

The Catholic Religion is not a matter of feeling, it is one of duty and obedience. The Saints all knew this too well. I’m makin’ just a major point about the “Dark Nights of the Soul…”:hey_bud:

–mhpierce–

I meant “feel is the right religion” as in “think is the right religion”, not feel as in “touchy feely”

And the saints definitley felt it was the right religion, else they would have gone elsewhere.

 

[mhpierce]

That bolded part is what I do not agree with. Who are we to say “the Holy Spirit can only…”?
The Spirit can do what He wants, and nothing we say or do can stop Him.
I do agree that a lot of people have misinterpreted the teachings of Vatican II, but that doesn’t mean that the Council itself is wrong.
Jesus said that the gates of hell would never prevail over his Church. I am more inclined to believe Jesus than you. To believe that the Church went wrong would require me to think Jesus a liar and question the Omnipotence of the Spirit. I’m sorry, I just can’t do that.

Now I really AM going to bed.

I will answer this in the am–The Holy Spirit does not violate the free will of his creatures–heretics deliberately changed the church through the auspices of the Second Vatican Council. I am sorry you cannot accept that. Look at all the negative fruits of this council, including the New Mass–which is man centered. These are all facts now, the past forty years. That council and those in charge after it closed, includinbg anti-pope Paul VI–were evil, and modernists.

-mhpierce–

 

[mhpierce]

mhpierce;4991352:

I meant “feel is the right religion” as in “think is the right religion”, not feel as in “touchy feely”

And the saints definitley felt it was the right religion, else they would have gone elsewhere.

Then write what you mean to say and state it clearly. I can oly respond to what you are saying, not what I may “think” you are saying.

-mhpierce-

 

[Snerticus]

Dear Veritas:

We as a culture have no proof that evolutipn is a fact; it is a hypothesis, scientifically ,and a bad one at that. Creation is more obvious, with The All that Is-God, Behind it.

Evolution, is rubbish, and it makes no sense. Nothing evolves, it grows, matures and then–it dies, all in nature. We live to die, do we not? But what, praytell ,do we evolve into?

Why are you forcing your whole athesistic idea through a hole callled evolution? That makes no sense, does it?

We have real supernatural proof of miracles-Lourdes and the 66 Miraculous cures for example. And real doctors who declaired them as such–or are they wrong too?

We have no real proof, expect some weird “theories” that evolution is real and it is the way the world functions.

The word is simply a delusional function of agnostics who can only see things as they terrn as"rational."

I have nor great love for pure rationalists–why do you, they are unstable intellectualists–believe me.

I have worked, medically, with many of them.:yawn: The idea of natural selection and evolution is boring, as they are stupid concepts…

There are many proofs for God’s existence–Read Aquinas…

-mhpierce–

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Veritas. Although I don’t claim that evolution is the only way God could have created the earth (because I’m only human and did not exist to see the good Lord create us) I see absolutely no evidence in the Bible that contradicts evolution at all. Unless, of course, you’re one of those that takes absolutely everything in the Bible at it’s word, literally.

However, I have to say, that just “poofing” the earth into existence is a whole lot more impersonal for a God who supposedly loves us so much that He gave His only begotten Son up to die for us. Which would you say loved you more - a God who created the earth in “one day” or a God who took billions upon billions of years to create the earth, then another hundreds upon hundreds of millions of years to create man - just to create it for you and me? I’d pick the latter. Besides, the Catholic church teaches no such thing that evolution is hogwash. Because it really doesn’t matter how God created the earth, only that He did.

Yes, miracles exist and I believe in some of them (not all), but if you notice, God prefers to work in the normal ways of the universe. The ways He created just for us. It is only in exceptions where He gives us miracles, and I believe the only reason He gives us miracles is for the soul’s benefit, not for our body’s benefit. Of what benefit is it to your soul or mine that he created the earth in a day or in a couple billion years? My answer: none. Therefore, the creation of the earth and man following it would naturally follow nature’s laws. At least that’s the way I see it. The Resurrection was a miracle as it was for the benefit of our souls. Raising Lazarus from the dead was a benefit for the souls witnessing the event, and possibly even Lazarus’. Changing water into wine was for the benefit of the souls present at the wedding feast, not for their bodies. Physical healing, although it was of temporary benefit to those people he cured, was mainly for the benefit of the souls watching the miracles happen. And so on and so on, even with God’s miracles through the saints. All of their miracles had a purpose - to benefit the souls of those present witnissing the event, especially the unbelievers who eventually believed. No one was present during the creation of the universe up until Adam and Eve, therefore no souls needed to be saved during that time and no miracles needed to be performed.

That’s the way I look at it. But, like I said, I’m human and realize God can do whatever He wants. So if I die and God says to me “listen Snert, you got it all wrong, I really did create the world in 7 days”, I’ll probably say “that’s cool”.

 

[phantasm]

Prove that it is dishonest. If it is truly a gift of the Holy Spirit, then it would seem reasonable that it would only work when He gives it to us, not whenever we want it.

Funny how everyone seems to want it and get it, while worshiping in these charismatic and pentecostal church’s.

Funny how no ever starts convulsing and speaking in tougnes during regular masses.

Why? It is not real, that’s why.

 

[phantasm]

Phantasm:

They swapped the truth for lies and new sacraments that are not sacraments. A very serious affront to God and His Church–founded by His Son.

Don’t sweat it, God can take care of himself and God would never allow anything to happen to his Church.

Trust in the Lord and his huge Roman Catholic Church.

 

[phantasm]

You may believe anything about Vatican II you have been taught–but that does not mean that it is correct or true.

An Atheist may say;

" You may believe everything about Christianity you have been taught, but that does not mean that is correct or true. "

 

[Snerticus]

Originally Posted by Veritas248

I can give you an honest answer about my own charismatic experienc similar to his. I was expected to have a similar reaction at a charismatic mass. I never had a reaction at all. I never did speak in tongues either, though I tried as best as I could. Unfortunately, or possible fortunately depending on how you look at it, those charismatic spiritual experiences are not the ones I ever had, save for prophecy, but that’s a different story alltogether.

My experiences at charismatic meetings make me feel like everyone around me is faking it. Although I’m sure some are genuine, I’m pretty sure some want it so bad they “just do it”. Veritas, I’m not belittling your experience or calling you a liar at all. I actually think you are one of the genuine ones. I just never experienced any of that stuff. At least not at a charismatic event, anyway.

 

[phantasm]

I can think up ways to lie to rationalize it, but my brain won’t let me honestly think it is anything other than a remote, since any other way doesn’t make sense to me. It is the same with me and Catholicism. I have never wanted to leave Catholicism, but it does not make sense to me anymore, so much so that for me to continue to call myself Catholic would be a lie, therefore, I am unable to have belief. I grew up in a religious family,

Hey, this sounds like me.

 

[Snerticus]

It’s ridiculous. :nope: It’s just my two cents, but I just really don’t like the idea of having convulsions on the floor. That Jesus Camp documentary was annoying and definitely contributed to my discomfort in this supernatural stuff.

That doesn’t sound like something I’d want to watch…

 

[phantasm]

That council and those in charge after it closed, includinbg anti-pope Paul VI–were evil, and modernists.

-mhpierce–

Wasn’t Jesus a modernist?

I wonder if Jesus would have liked people arguing over the correct way to properly worship God?

 

[mhpierce]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Veritas. Although I don’t claim that evolution is the only way God could have created the earth (because I’m only human and did not exist to see the good Lord create us) I see absolutely no evidence in the Bible that contradicts evolution at all. Unless, of course, you’re one of those that takes absolutely everything in the Bible at it’s word, literally.

However, I have to say, that just “poofing” the earth into existence is a whole lot more impersonal for a God who supposedly loves us so much that He gave His only begotten Son up to die for us. Which would you say loved you more - a God who created the earth in “one day” or a God who took billions upon billions of years to create the earth, then another hundreds upon hundreds of millions of years to create man - just to create it for you and me? I’d pick the latter. Besides, the Catholic church teaches no such thing that evolution is hogwash. Because it really doesn’t matter how God created the earth, only that He did.

Yes, miracles exist and I believe in some of them (not all), but if you notice, God prefers to work in the normal ways of the universe. The ways He created just for us. It is only in exceptions where He gives us miracles, and I believe the only reason He gives us miracles is for the soul’s benefit, not for our body’s benefit. Of what benefit is it to your soul or mine that he created the earth in a day or in a couple billion years? My answer: none. Therefore, the creation of the earth and man following it would naturally follow nature’s laws. At least that’s the way I see it. The Resurrection was a miracle as it was for the benefit of our souls. Raising Lazarus from the dead was a benefit for the souls witnessing the event, and possibly even Lazarus’. Changing water into wine was for the benefit of the souls present at the wedding feast, not for their bodies. Physical healing, although it was of temporary benefit to those people he cured, was mainly for the benefit of the souls watching the miracles happen. And so on and so on, even with God’s miracles through the saints. All of their miracles had a purpose - to benefit the souls of those present witnissing the event, especially the unbelievers who eventually believed. No one was present during the creation of the universe up until Adam and Eve, therefore no souls needed to be saved during that time and no miracles needed to be performed.

That’s the way I look at it. But, like I said, I’m human and realize God can do whatever He wants. So if I die and God says to me “listen Snert, you got it all wrong, I really did create the world in 7 days”, I’ll probably say “that’s cool”.

Dear Confused Writer!:

God reveals truth and how the world was created is biblical and thus inspired by the Holy Ghost. you know all of that…

here is nothing in His revelations that state that evolution was a possibilty. Why even comapre evolution, a man-made hypothesis, to God or to state or imply that evolution may be the “way” God created… the notion is blashpemous. Who are you to even contemplate such notions, as many do? We are taught by the Church to obey–no too speculate!

-mhpierce-

 

[phantasm]

Dear Veritas:

We as a culture have no proof that evolutipn is a fact; it is a hypothesis, scientifically ,and a bad one at that. Creation is more obvious, with The All that Is-God, Behind it.

Evolution, is rubbish, and it makes no sense. Nothing evolves, it grows, matures and then–it dies, all in nature. We live to die, do we not? But what, praytell ,do we evolve into?

Why are you forcing your whole athesistic idea through a hole callled evolution? That makes no sense, does it?

We have real supernatural proof of miracles-Lourdes and the 66 Miraculous cures for example. And real doctors who declaired them as such–or are they wrong too?

We have no real proof, expect some weird “theories” that evolution is real and it is the way the world functions.

The word is simply a delusional function of agnostics who can only see things as they terrn as"rational."

I have nor great love for pure rationalists–why do you, they are unstable intellectualists–believe me.

I have worked, medically, with many of them.:yawn: The idea of natural selection and evolution is boring, as they are stupid concepts…

There are many proofs for God’s existence–Read Aquinas…

-mhpierce–

You’ve got to be kidding me?

You actually sound like an evangelical fundamentalist Christian.

Are you aware that the Catholic Church accepts evolution. Do you know why? To deny evolution as a fact, would make the Roman Catholic Church a laughing stock throughout the enlightened world.

Since when does a theory have to appear as not being weird to your personal and subjective opinions?

You suggest that the theory of evolution is a stupid concept, yet this theory has an absolute mountain of observable, testable and falsifiable evidence behind it.

Yet you believe, without any evidence, that a piece of bread is turned into the flesh of the son of the creator of the universe, at every single Mass, presided over by a Catholic priest!

You also believe, again, without any evidence, that the creator of the universe knows the thoughts of all 6.5 billion people on earth and personally intervenes to assist you in your daily life!

Then, you sit there, and call one of the most studied and researched theories in all of human history…stupid!

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Come on man, you’ve got to be kidding me with this post?

 

[phantasm]

We are taught by the Church to obey–no too speculate!

-mhpierce-

So, of course, you still believe that the earth is flat, that the earth is the center of the universe and that the sun orbits around the earth.

Correct?

Obey.

 

[Snerticus]

Snerticus;4992393:

Then write what you mean to say and state it clearly. I can oly respond to what you are saying, not what I may “think” you are saying.

-mhpierce-

I can’t help it if you misinterpret me. I wasn’t responding to your post, and the person I did respond to didn’t make a deal of it, therefore I don’t see a problem with it myself.

 

[phantasm]

Dear Confused Writer!:

God reveals truth and how the world was created is biblical and thus inspired by the Holy Ghost. you know all of that…

here is nothing in His revelations that state that evolution was a possibilty.

Nor is there anything in His revelations to state that Quantum Mechanics, micro-biology, astro-physics, Atmoic theory, germ theory, Nuclear fusion, electricity, micro-processors or even music theory is a possibility.

sigh

 

[Snerticus]

Dear Confused Writer!:

God reveals truth and how the world was created is biblical and thus inspired by the Holy Ghost. you know all of that…

here is nothing in His revelations that state that evolution was a possibilty. Why even comapre evolution, a man-made hypothesis, to God or to state or imply that evolution may be the “way” God created… the notion is blashpemous. Who are you to even contemplate such notions, as many do? We are taught by the Church to obey–no too speculate!

-mhpierce-

How can you assert what we are taught by the Church when you believe the Church is evil? The Catechism distincly says we are free to believe in evolution or not. I obey by believing in evolution. Then you tell me I’m a rogue and need to obey. Who do you think I’m going to listen to - you, or the Church?

 

[mhpierce]

Wasn’t Jesus a modernist?

I wonder if Jesus would have liked people arguing over the correct way to properly worship God?

Dearest Phantam, The Question Maker:

Jesus wants people to obey what His church has always taught- the truths of salvation expounded in His gospel.

Revealed Truth, the traditiond. doctrines and dogmas always belived, for which thousands died, including martyrs, Saints and others, do not change, despite about which some are always longing to agrue–through their pride… and lack of faith…

They have no real Peace with what Christ taught. They need to debate–but debate what-- their inner confusions and disbeliefs in Christ’s Revelations?

***That evil exists, that popes and other man taught other then Christ, these are historical facts and need to be accepted as facts *** People penning on this Thread–many are like this and they do not accept them–it’s that simple. They question as if they knew better than God and that theme, that tone in much of the writing here is apparent!

Jesus wants you to stand up for his Revelations first, as God and His Church come first in life. He said that we would be treated the way He was treated.

Why do not some of you on this Thread seem to know not even the rudiments of Catholicism? You were not taught them properly, you were taught by confused people who were poisoned by liberalism and Vatican Two “changes!” It’s so obvious and it is sad.

–mhpierce–

 

[Snerticus]

Dearest Phantam, The Question Maker:

Jesus wants people to obey what His church has always taught- the truths of salvation expounded in His gospel.

Revealed Truth, the traditiond. doctrines and dogmas always belived, for which thousands died, including martyrs, Saints and others, do not change, despite about which some are always longing to agrue–through their pride… and lack of faith…

They have no real Peace with what Christ taught. They need to debate–but debate what-- their inner confusions and disbeliefs in Christ’s Revelations?

***That evil exists, that popes and other man taught other then Christ, these are historical facts and need to be accepted as facts ***People penning on this Thread–many are like this and they do not accept them–it’s that simple. They question as if they knew better than God and that theme, that tone in much of the writing here is apparent!

Jesus wants you to stand up for his Revelations first, as God and His Church come first in life. He said that we would be treated the way He was treated.

Why do not some of you on this Thread seem to know not even the rudiments of Catholicism? You were not taught them properly, you were taught by confused people who were poisoned by liberalism and Vatican Two “changes!” It’s so obvious and it is sad.

–mhpierce–

May I ask if you believe that the Church is, was, and ever shall be capable of “loosing and binding”?

A simple yes or no answer will do please.

 

[phantasm]

Dearest Phantam, The Question Maker:

Jesus wants people to obey what His church has always taught- the truths of salvation expounded in His gospel.

Did the Church always teach Mary’s assumption as a doctrine of faith and a historical fact?

So, your also saying that Jesus wants you to believe that the earth is flat, is the center of the universe and it is the sun that orbits the earth? The Church had always taught that, until it realized it was wrong.