Atheists:

[Snerticus]

Hey Blade, I know you said you were going to read “Mere Christianity”. I just got downloaded an audiobook from audible that I listened to at work this last night (I sit at a computer doing mindless keying for 8 hours a day and we can listen to iPods and such) called “God in the Docks” from CS Lewis. It’s quite interesting… a bunch of short works that gives you his reasoning on a bunch of religion related topics. I’d suggest that one too. Either/or. At least “God in the Docks” is a compilation of short letters and works and you can read each one quickly.

 

[mhpierce]

The attributed holocaust denying quote, from wikipedia, did Vezelis say it or not?

If he did not say it, why have you not had that quote removed from Wikipedia, in order to protect Vezelis’s good name?

How can you say that I accept as gospel what ever it is I read on the internet?

I very, considerately, used the word ’ allegedly’ and cited my source, being wikipedia.

That’s more like it Phantam

Just try getting them to remove something… It’s hard and the final decision is theirs…

The Bishop did say that, but as I said, so what?

–He is asserting a multiple of facts on what is called The Holocaust. He continues to do so…

–Many find it Unchristian, but he is hardly that. and that’s a lie too, of course…

–Secularists and politically correct types hate Catholicism and this controversy on the holocaust that has been raging, again recently, adds more fuel to their supposed bonfires, that are extinguished by the cold water of real Truths…

–You would have to speak with him, as I have, to really understand what he is saying, as many have.

–This topic is too long to discuss here, and it would serve no purpose and many would be “scandalized,” or would feigh scandle.

–AND too many today, do not know the real history of that period, enough of it to make an intelligent decision concerning the Bishops commments… this gets involved and it is complicated.

–Too many people, too much of the time, as specifically students in University, want things to be simplified as they are too lazy to pursue the truth in research, and arrive at a proper and balanced conclusions…

–I have spoken with some, especially college students and what they “believe” and assert is rediculous at times and hardly worth debating they are so invarient of their opinions… they are prevaricators, but do no know that they lie, and that is very distressing…

mhpierce…

 

[phantasm]

Just try getting them to remove something… It’s hard and the final decision is theirs…

No, anyone can change most anything on Wikipedia. Anyone can create a free wikipedia account, sign in and completely edit everything on that page about that Bishop.

I’m not quite sure that you understand the nature of wikipedia. The final decision rests with the public, with individuals, especially on unprotected pages, such as the one I quoted from.

The Bishop did say that, but as I said, so what?

–He is asserting a multiple of facts on what is called The Holocaust. He continues to do so…

So then, there is nothing to edit out of that Wikipedia page, as the quote is correctly attributed to Vezelis, who consecrated your Bishop.

If your Vezelis does deny the Jewish holocaust, the Nazi German genocide of the Jewish people, he has a poor understanding of history and is spreading historical inaccuracies.

Someone may ask, what is the overall purpose in denying the historical fact of the Jewish Holocaust?

From the Jewish Virtual Library;

This is precisely the intent of the Holocaust deniers: by attacking the facts of the Holocaust, and by framing this attack as merely an unorthodox point of view, their propaganda insinuates subtle but hateful anti-Semitic beliefs of Jews as exploiters of non-Jewish guilt and Jews as controllers of academia or the media. These beliefs, in fact, bear comparison to the preachings which brought Hitler to power in prewar Germany.

A statement from the Vatican…

The Vatican’s envoy to Israel asserted on Monday that Holocaust deniers could not be considered Catholic, in an apparent bid to temper tensions ahead of a papal visit in May.

Seems clear to me, holocaust deniers cannot be considered Catholics, so says the Catholic Church.

Therefor, Vezelis is not a Catholic, so says the Catholic Church. If Vezelis is not a Catholic, how can a non-Catholic, consecrate anyone?

They can’t.

This debate has ended, before it even really began.

 

[mhpierce]

Phamtasm:
Apostolic Authority: Why it is Necessary

Comments concerning the autherntic Bishops, Louis Vezelis and Giles Butler:

Articles have been written about the bishops, and quotations have been gathered by liberal, modernist and politically correct sourses to discredit them (many facts contained in which have been refuted to the satisfaction of many, I will add); this is what goes on today in the media and if you do not know this, then I advise you to look at much in the media concerning The Catholic Church with a “jaundiced eye…”

NB: The article you read that was quoted by Wiki in the “Bio” of Bishop Louis, was published in our local paper,(the infamous Democrat and Chronicle, aka: The Demigod and Comical!) and was used to denigrate the Bishop–you should have seen that one–it made the front page of the paper! (Let’s “Get that Bishop and the Church he Represents, and show that he is weird, excentric at the least…” which is what the tone of the article amounted to…)

Portions were then quoted and taken out of context by a man who has no apostolic authority, but he took the quote and placed it in an article written by him that was denigrating, as this author, who has a high opinion of himself, was trying to, again, discredit the Bishop. the article was a bold attack against the bishop, I must add.

This author has, as I state, no authority, as he does not work with any real apostolic bishops and priests so his points concerning bishops and things Catholicat best are moot. He writes a Catholic column… of dubious opinions…

This is common practice all over the world now, as many assert their authority, their “rights” but have no real apostolic authority or permission, and that is the real problem here, and you must recognize that. All rights have responsibilities attached to them and an authority source…

If you do not, or will not, accept apostolic authority as a fact, I will not respond to your posts anymore, as I will consider you in diobedience and therefore a heretic, who refuses to accept real apostolic authority.

I do acceot the Bishops as my authorities and I will not play arounbd with “heavenly fire,” or tempt God with unapproved assertions and ideas, which I do not do…

Accept that, please.

NB: What Bishop Louis Vezelis asserts about the Holocaust does not discredit him at all, period. He is hardly excentric, was a missionary in Korea for twenty years, has a doctorate in Church Law and Divinity Studies and speaks five languages… and a lot more could be said about his background… And he has traveled widely and knows what he is talking about as he has be “checked out by many…”

Again, respect our apostolic positions. There are real penalities for those who do not do this, and yet they seem to not care about that fact…

—mhpierce

 

[mhpierce]

No, anyone can change most anything on Wikipedia. Anyone can create a free wikipedia account, sign in and completely edit everything on that page about that Bishop.

I’m not quite sure that you understand the nature of wikipedia. The final decision rests with the public, with individuals, especially on unprotected pages, such as the one I quoted from.

So then, there is nothing to edit out of that Wikipedia page, as the quote is correctly attributed to Vezelis, who consecrated your Bishop.

If your Vezelis does deny the Jewish holocaust, the Nazi German genocide of the Jewish people, he has a poor understanding of history and is spreading historical inaccuracies.

Someone may ask, what is the overall purpose in denying the historical fact of the Jewish Holocaust?

From the Jewish Virtual Library;

This is precisely the intent of the Holocaust deniers: by attacking the facts of the Holocaust, and by framing this attack as merely an unorthodox point of view, their propaganda insinuates subtle but hateful anti-Semitic beliefs of Jews as exploiters of non-Jewish guilt and Jews as controllers of academia or the media. These beliefs, in fact, bear comparison to the preachings which brought Hitler to power in prewar Germany.

A statement from the Vatican…

The Vatican’s envoy to Israel asserted on Monday that Holocaust deniers could not be considered Catholic, in an apparent bid to temper tensions ahead of a papal visit in May.

Seems clear to me, holocaust deniers cannot be considered Catholics, so says the Catholic Church.

Therefor, Vezelis is not a Catholic, so says the Catholic Church. If Vezelis is not a Catholic, how can a non-Catholic, consecrate anyone?

They can’t.

This debate has ended, before it even really began.

No–that is not true anymore. Wiki has changed. It is monitored by people who do not like Catholics who call themselves conservative. Sorry but you must accept that… I am aware of how it works and I often avoid using it…

mhpierce

 

[mhpierce]

No, anyone can change most anything on Wikipedia. Anyone can create a free wikipedia account, sign in and completely edit everything on that page about that Bishop.

I’m not quite sure that you understand the nature of wikipedia. The final decision rests with the public, with individuals, especially on unprotected pages, such as the one I quoted from.

So then, there is nothing to edit out of that Wikipedia page, as the quote is correctly attributed to Vezelis, who consecrated your Bishop.

If your Vezelis does deny the Jewish holocaust, the Nazi German genocide of the Jewish people, he has a poor understanding of history and is spreading historical inaccuracies.

Someone may ask, what is the overall purpose in denying the historical fact of the Jewish Holocaust?

From the Jewish Virtual Library;

This is precisely the intent of the Holocaust deniers: by attacking the facts of the Holocaust, and by framing this attack as merely an unorthodox point of view, their propaganda insinuates subtle but hateful anti-Semitic beliefs of Jews as exploiters of non-Jewish guilt and Jews as controllers of academia or the media. These beliefs, in fact, bear comparison to the preachings which brought Hitler to power in prewar Germany.

A statement from the Vatican…

The Vatican’s envoy to Israel asserted on Monday that Holocaust deniers could not be considered Catholic, in an apparent bid to temper tensions ahead of a papal visit in May.

Seems clear to me, holocaust deniers cannot be considered Catholics, so says the Catholic Church.

Therefor, Vezelis is not a Catholic, so says the Catholic Church. If Vezelis is not a Catholic, how can a non-Catholic, consecrate anyone?

They can’t.

This debate has ended, before it even really began.

Dear Mistaken Phantasm;5002880:

You cannot debate anything unless certain facts are exchanged and agreed upon. That has not happened here, and I resent your thinking it has… I could say also: How dare you assume something like a debate between us, but that would be superfluous at this point.

It is pathetic that you do not understand what is at stake here and I have concluded you do not want to know, especially when it comes to real authority.

The present Vatican and its envoys are “pissing in the wind” and have no authority to assert anything as they are not Catholic anymore. The Real Catholic Church is “in eclipse…” shrouded by modernism, anti-Christ prelate, and heretical teachings such as the New Ecumanism…"

You do not accept that, and if you did, your whole exegesis collapses and it really has, despite your research and assertions. Facts belie any argument to the contary.

What you state from Jewish and other supposed authorities is their opinions, and many of them are not based on anything except the idea that anti-semitism is rampant and must be exposed.

It is not allowed to make comments about people who employ Catholic Bashing techniques, and treat it now as a science; and people who assert Anti-Catholic comments are lauded and never critisized and those who challenge “Jewish” assertions that are flawed. Hyprocasy is what that is…

“Jewish” ideas and emotions concerning the facts of what they call :***The Holocaust ***are so pedantic, so sacrosanct now, that there can be not challenges to the contrary, can not be an apposing fact or an article posted and published about this topic for fear of anti-semitism.

HOGWASH; and it is also arrogant and facist of the Jews and their leaders and writers, (many Jews are also guilty of murder which you are not suppose to assert), to be so defensive and have gotten too many people to go along with their overarching assertions, based on pure emotionalism. There are facts about the Consecration Camps they refuse to mention, one is the fact that millions of others were killed and died in them and after, from malnutrition, and that many Catholic martyrs died there too.

How can an authority, that denies its own history, have any credibility? It has none.

The present Catholic Church you quote is not the Catholic church, and therefore your whole argument is based on sand, as they have no apostolic authority anymore, since the present pope and the previous one, Left the Church-- which is what is so complicated to many, who still accept or think Rome is authentically still the real authority in what is left of the Real Church.

Again, the Vatican in Rome is not Catholic anymore, there is a remnant of real Catholics left in the world since 1969, and the rest are not Catholic, thus they have no authority; as outrageous as this sounds to many, that is what happened, and its basic causes, this Great Apostasy, were the results that emananted from The Second Vatican Council, what it published and what Pope Paul VI did to the real sacraments,*** binding them to all Catholics at the time, which he could not do as they were changed by him and they could not be changed, by anyone, not even a pope… ***SEE: Council of Trent.

This facts in this summation are the logica that proves why you are wrong in your assertions and I have stated this in my posts before.

Please try and understand what has happened: The Real Catholic Church you do not quote; you quote a Church you recognize as the Real one, but that is not the Catholic church anymore and thus has no real authority and cannot be accepted as authentic. It’s not “rocket science” you know…

mhpierce

 

[mhpierce]

Phantam, A final comment about your writing and MisUse of Facts:

You really like to play: I got you, don’t you?

As long as you consider you are right about your assertions, then it does not really matter to you if you have sacrificed the truth so you can look like the “winner…”

If this was not so pathetic it would be laughable.

Your credibility in my mind is pulp; and your arguments and assertions, based on what you consider facts, even if the contarty is pointed out to you, means nothing, once you have signed your name to a flawed argument or premise.

Your interest in ferreting out the truth, however complicated it is at times, and it often is now, in this Internet World, is more than suspect in my eyes. It does not exist, evidenced here in this thread, and in our recent, what you have termed, “debate.”

There are many like you; and it is a sad state of affairs these days as this type of egomanical behavior, in writing, is pandemic today. And the writer who labors solely for his own reputation, forgets, as he is flawed, that others see right through him, and his techniques.

Truth does not matter, when discussing an important subject such as atheism and the Real Catholic Church. It’s the writer’s ego and his repuration, so called, that does. So be it.

MHPIERCE

 

[josie_L]

Josie L;5002252:

You cannot possibly discern lack of humility in someone with whom you have no personal involvement. I do not know you and I am not involved with you on any level in which you could draw that conclusion. Therefore, you are somehow deluded into thinking that you can call me “unhumble” thinking you can discern that sin, from a bold list of facts that have appeared in my posts.

How does a list of facts prove lack of humility, in the person who wrote them? It cannot possible prove that, there is no evidence that appears in the facts or in the discussion or writing about Church History, which I have done, that can. So what is the point of accusing me of delusions of grandeur, when I have presented cold hard facts that prove something other than many have accepted as truths?

If you disagree with my facts, and they are real facts, then what seems to be the problem here?

There is nothing here that seems to be a problem, as there is a problem: willful unacceptance. How can facts be ignored, not ascertained? By rejecting them and then blaming the “messanger” who defines them but that is the accusers problem as they are in denial and delusional.

That you do not want to believe the facts about the Second Vatican Council and its forty year heretical and modernist aftermath and that millions have not and refuse to accept these facts, to reject all that I have mentioned about This Great Apostasy in which we live, and the fact that there are very few real practicing Catholics left in the world, and that those who attend the “New Mass” are committing idolatry, which is a mortal sin, is a great delusion on an individual’s part.

If you do not want to accept these facts and conclude, illogically, that I am deluded for writing about them, then that is you decision but it is erroneous. Acceptance of facts does not imply delusion or delusions of granduer, as you point out illogically, quite the opposite.

Do you refuse to ascertain, accept and to authenticate these facts for yourself? If you do, then you would have to admit that my facts are correct and they are, but you would be wrong about the “Church you Call Catholic,” and that would require you to change your “opinions” and your beliefs, perhaps, some of which would need to change if you are calling yourself a Roman Catholic.

You cannot do this at present perhaps,but it is vital to your spiritual health.

Still, as with most on this thread, lashing out at me for pointing out facts that make you uncomfortable and resentful, you resort, like children, to accusations and name calling.

These actions shed light on your shortcomings and your heretical practices as so-called Catholics. Heretics and those who are steeped in heresy are not interested, once they can justify the heresy to themselves, do not like or want it pointed out to them that they are sinful heretics and why.

It would take humility to do that, and I had to face the aformentioned a long time ago and I did it and was happy that I took the criticism I was offered as the facts presented to me, which I authenticated, shed light on a number of answers for which I was praying deeply; I will share that it was a humiliating experience, without having to go into any more of the sad details. Humiliating experiences if lived with and accepted are merciful and filled with many Graces.

If you were interested in the truth and what’s wrong with the Church that is Housed in Rome, the last forty years especially, you would have not been so quick to accuse, and resort to name calling. Some on this Thread have been and I am in touch with them privately. But that is not your business.

mhpierce

:dts: :dts: :dts: :dts: :dts: :dts: :dts: :dts: said the Magisterium.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Believe me, eradicating God and His moral guidance from your life, has not brought people greater happiness and freedom. Rather it has deprived people of the strength and hope needed to overcome pressing difficulties.
A moral code is incomplete **UNLESS IT HINGE’S UPON GOD’S INSPIRATION AND SUBMISSION TO HIM, THE SOURCE OF ALL GOOD. **
The elimination of God and His Law, as a condition for the realization of human happiness, has not reached it’s goal at all.

 

[mhpierce]

Believe me, eradicating God and His moral guidance from your life, has not brought people greater happiness and freedom. Rather it has deprived people of the strength and hope needed to overcome pressing difficulties.
A moral code is incomplete **UNLESS IT HINGE’S UPON GOD’S INSPIRATION AND SUBMISSION TO HIM, THE SOURCE OF ALL GOOD. **
The elimination of God and His Law, as a condition for the realization of human happiness, has not reached it’s goal at all.

Dear OneTrueCathApos;5005183:

A very apt comment concerning the times in which we live. Did you write this–and if you did, I am deeply impressed with its terse depiction of the modern world and the lack of god in the lives of the world…

Could you tell me something? I noticed that Phantam is now banned. Is it possible to find out why–of what did the moderators say about him?

He certainly knows how to do some hefty research, even if his exegesis is based on a single article from wikipedia1

Nevertheless could you (can we) find out perhaps why he was banned?

I appreciate you help
mhpierce

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Dear OneTrueCathApos;5005183:

A very apt comment concerning the times in which we live. Did you write this–and if you did, I am deeply impressed with its terse depiction of the modern world and the lack of god in the lives of the world…

Could you tell me something? I noticed that Phantam is now banned. Is it possible to find out why–of what did the moderators say about him?

He certainly knows how to do some hefty research, even if his exegesis is based on a single article from wikipedia1

Nevertheless could you (can we) find out perhaps why he was banned?

I appreciate you help
mhpierce

My dear mhpierce, why don’t you pm the moderators and ask them. I find it ironic that after all your insults that you now need my help.

 

[Snerticus]

I had already predicted in one of my first posts after phantasm appeared here on these forums “see where that gets you”. I was alluding to the fact that eventually they would be banned.

I know that posting attacks on these forums with the intent of driving the faithful away is not allowed, perhaps that was why? However, I started to see a human side to phantasm that revealed where all this hatred came from.

It is unfortunate that he/she was banned, however.

Gotta run, will be late for work…

God Bless,
Snert

 

[mhpierce]

My dear mhpierce, why don’t you pm the moderators and ask them. I find it ironic that after all your insults that you now need my help.

Dear OneTrueCathApos;5005269;

I apologize for all of my shorcomings. I am very stern with the facts, as they are too easily rejected. *** Without an agreement concerning the real facts of a case there can be no real debate, and that is what has happened here on this thread.***

Also, I cannot back down asI am correct about the facts, which I am. that does sound like arrogance, but it is not.

If my delineqations insulted you, I am sorry as I did not contribute to what has happened to the Church since Vatican Two closed. I am truly interested in the Salvation of Souls, and if that has not been one of my major points here, then I am reiterating it now. I have to follow my well formed conscience, which can prick deeply at any moment and I have to state the situation at present as have many others, accurately, even if it is truly ugly.

Salvation is based on what the Church has always taught, not what many are now proclaiming in NEWCHURCH, where there is no salvation, where none is possible.

And again, you have no idea of my motives and my background, as I of yours.

If you want to consider yourself truly insluted, then take your complaints to the Vatican and its present representativees who are an effite, modernistic, amoral bunch of liberals and liars who have no interest anymore, based on some very recent news from their camp, which is more of the same actually, of doing anything to restore the Church to her former Glory and rightful place in this world–in which real Salvation is possible.

Do not delude yourself about any of what we are going through presently though: All of this that has changed the real Church, was planned, and for decades. Situations such as The Great Apostasy do not take place by accident, but by malevolent yet subtle manipulations of the masses of people, who are trained to trust their leaders, in this case the Hierarchy.

I am sorry if I did insult you, truly. But I have often said, A Great Scouring is Good for the Soul. I have experienced in the past fifteen years, a major scouring… So forgive me please for my stern insults, if that’s what you profess.

I really like what you wrote. I am going to copy it and give you the credit if I have your permission.

Thanks for listening… I will be leaving this Thread tomorrow… It has been a pleasure, as i met some interesting and they had some very insightful comments to make about atheism and the Church, and God’s revelations and existence.
mhpierce

 

[mhpierce]

I had already predicted in one of my first posts after phantasm appeared here on these forums “see where that gets you”. I was alluding to the fact that eventually they would be banned.

I know that posting attacks on these forums with the intent of driving the faithful away is not allowed, perhaps that was why? However, I started to see a human side to phantasm that revealed where all this hatred came from.

It is unfortunate that he/she was banned, however.

Gotta run, will be late for work…

God Bless,
Snert

Hi Snert:
I thought you might appear; interesting prescience.

I am sorry that the Phantam, as I called him, was banned. He was interestingly challenging, as you can see by his posts. Sorry it happened. His style seemed a little over tthe top (look who is talkin!), but he was guilty of not looking at the facts and concerned only with being “right” at the risk of the truth. It showed…

God bless You
mhpierce

 

[mhpierce]

Hi Snert:
I thought you might appear; interesting prescience.

I am sorry that the Phantam, as I called him, was banned. He was interestingly challenging, as you can see by his posts. Sorry it happened. His style seemed a little over the top (look who is talkin!), but he was guilty of not looking at the facts and concerned only with being “right” at the risk of the truth. It showed…

God bless You
mhpierce

It is my concerted opinion that the Phantam akahantasm, was banned as he denigrated and calumineated a real bishop, who was truly consecrated and who consecrated, apostolically, another one, but the Phantam offered no proof for what he stated, which was that they were not real bishops.

I said in one of my posts that Bishop Louis and Bishop Giles and their apostolic succession can be traced back centuries.

The Phantam rejected this, but it an easy provable fact. This may not have caused a good deal of consternation with the moderators or it may have. there are other reasons, for sure. He spent hours on this thread and wrote many posts as I checked his bio…

Phantasm was once a Catholic–and if he is bitter, I am sorry and I will be praying for his eventual return.

mhpierce

 

[WarriorAngel]

Oh, and Pascal’s Wager? Really? I expected way better from you. Pascal’s Wager is probably the cheapest, dirtiest, last-resort of a trick you could ever commit! :banghead: It is indecent and very childish. :nope:

But, if you want a challenge, I’ll level with you and your childish ways and counter it:

Suppose we grant that there is some chance that God actually exists. Regardless, it could be said that you will lead a better, fuller life if you bet on his not existing, than if you bet on his existing and therefore waste your precious time on worshipping him, sacrificing to him, fighting and dying for him.

Eternity may be a long time, but a finite Life of conciousness is oh-so short.

In no way is that wager infantile. Eternal life isn’t something to poke fun at.
What have you lost if you lived a moral life and treated others in the purest Christian terms?

If anything - your life is fuller when you do for others.
I am sure you know exactly what I mean. I am sure helping [example] an elderly lady cross the road who is confused, and slumped over from the years that wracked her health and she smiles at you and thanks you - and maybe wants to talk to you about anything in the world because she is lonely and you take those 10 minutes to listen…to slow down and find the jewel in her experiences…and her.
Do you feel like you did something - even small - to improve this world?
Yes - you did. You just made a lonely person’s day and gave her a reason to smile.

IF ppl were more selfless and more centered around giving for the sake of love - and that love beget more love - what an interesting world this would be.

But according to your own terms - you think we should be self seeking and self serving to find our own happiness. Without God present - it will never be happy. I wager you feel an emptiness deep inside - you are seeking to fill something you dont even realise you lost. Looking inside yourself asking - whats the point?

Well, i will give you a small hint. We find more joy loving others and in doing so love will come back to us. IF all of us stopped - helped - and loved - the domino effect would occur.

The principles of this - is Divine inspiration.
For the scriptures say
"We love - because God loved us first.’

And then can we share that love.

Its a pity to want to have everything good in this life for oneself and by oneself without wanting to give or to please others - in doing so - brings us closer to the unity God desires for us.

Truly making this earth - like Heaven.

The hardest principles to follow are the ones God wishes for us. LOVE. It sounds simple - but it is hard. Which is why mankind didnt write it. For mankind wants what they want - now. Not later - but now.

However; the Good Book says God will Bless His creatures. Whether we receive our blessings on this short period of life - or if it becomes eternal and everlasting.

Personally I prefer long term. So God helps us thru the struggles - and for those who deny Him - He blesses them now and only now. He is a fair and generous God… always giving everything we want [which is holy] and then some according to our needs.

I ask - how full is your life if no one shows you love or compassion? If you show no love and compassion?
Love and compassion stem from God - these are not somethings we are naturally inclined to.

Remove God - and you have nothing but an empty and meaningless life. WHY? Because life has no other meaning. It ends - and nothing we have done or do will be remembered. We will be forgotten.
Ever wonder why we have gravestones? Markings of our names ?
This stemmed from the Catholic Church - so we would pray for those we see m,arked who otherwise would be remembered no more.
Thats what we become - nothing important ever more on this earth. We cannot return, and so what is here now and what we do has one point - giving ourselves to God for the sake of eternity.
We are something past and will be remembered no more.

So whats the point?

Tomorrow a better invention - a smarter human - a more improved item - a closer in depth understanding of how science prooves God [over and again BTW] will only cause the souls bitterness in the netherworld when they will see it wasn’t worth being ‘self’ involved forgetting our mortality and letting life pass by without a time to repent.
May God give you a wonderful passing and the time in which to call Him back in your heart.

Sadly - I have been seeing so many young souls dying instantly in these times.
So many who were not prepared. He comes like a thief - be always ready.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Just because somebody lives without a belief in God doesn’t mean they are horrible people. Their are many nonbelievers who are good people; who do kind things; who are honest; and so on.

I don’t expect you to see my view because–really, who wins these types of debates and convinces the other? Now, I’ve been on your side; the Catholic side, and even though I’m not you and could not have the same exact opinions as you have, I do know what it’s like to believe these things–to try to challenge an Atheist/Agnostic and get them on the Catholic side. An Atheist or Agnostic way of thinking is only a frightening state of mind when you have not been there.

Therefore, I understand your inability to understand.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Just because somebody lives without a belief in God doesn’t mean they are horrible people. Their are many nonbelievers who are good people; who do kind things; who are honest; and so on.

I don’t expect you to see my view because–really, who wins these types of debates and convinces the other? Now, I’ve been on your side; the Catholic side, and even though I’m not you and could not have the same exact opinions as you have, I do know what it’s like to believe these things–to try to challenge an Atheist/Agnostic and get them on the Catholic side. An Atheist or Agnostic way of thinking is only a frightening state of mind when you have not been there.

Therefore, I understand your inability to understand.

Lacking grace is frightening.

Accepting that lack of grace may not be frightening to some, but that’s because without grace - they dont see the issue.

Whether or not someone believes in God and is nice or not - isnt the issue.
Everyone has a good and bad side.

If you truly tasted grace - and turned away and accepted turning away - you have choosen to refuse grace.

But just as we do not see air - we need it to live.
Just because we do not see God - doesnt mean we do not need His Spirit to give us life.

And lastly i was up til 1 am reading the reports by athiests and Catholics on the evolution theories.

Here is my catch - and has always been my position.
Just because we see the slow process of God’s work - and believe me I accept that anything was possible prior to the actual creation of modern man and world since the Bible itself doesnt discount it when the beginning of the Bible shows the earth was already existing and the Spirit was stirring over the waters.
Which imho - is probably melting the ice age.
The ice age the ancients could not have known existed.

Furthermore; God is outside of time and as such without time - billions of years could have passed as He created the earth prior to the beginning of Creation.

And as the Catholic stance on that is - how God created was with His thots. Because nothing can never create anything more than nothing.
And so Someone created.

God’s thots created the earth - what He did prior to setting the mountains and giving vegetation and so forth will not be known.

Surely the ancients didnt make a story about a creation which inadvertently could have included an ice age - and none whatsoever claim to know the age of the earth prior to God’s hands making what we know now.

After all - science prooved the sun is younger than the earth.
Without time as a factor - God had ‘all day’ to do what He wanted. Basically - He is eternal without a beginning - so what was the rush?

Time only entered when sin entered.

Also - the Catholic stance is - the way God created and how long it took is of no concern.
The concern is the immediate creation of a soul.

God breathed life into the man…

And if the universe created us from nothing - an impossibility to say the least - then why would it have created us to die and what exactly gives us mobility and life if not our soul - our spirit?

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

And if the universe created us from nothing - an impossibility to say the least - then why would it have created us to die and what exactly gives us mobility and life if not our soul - our spirit?

Well, why not? Everything that breathes and grows reproduces and dies: Plants, animals, etc. Anything that has a beginning has an end. As far as our mobility and life go, it’s all in evolution… and us as humankind. It all begins with observations and curiosity. Furthermore, there may be a higher force out there that you mistakenly call God. It’s called [SIGN]TIME[/SIGN]. No one knows how it began or how it may end (if it even ends); in the short run, it is infinite; in the long run, it might die; the only difference between Time and your God: Time doesn’t have human qualities like anger, mercy, love, hate, etc–it simply doesn’t care about us; it continues to move on, and if you don’t keep up, you may not make it; Time is the keeper of Death. And, for us–the living-- Time is short.

 

[WarriorAngel]

No one knows how it began - but there is not a single scientist ready to back up the theory that nothing created something.

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing.

Nothing cannot produce anything more than nothing.

And until you see nothing create something - you have no proof.
Seeing the Universe itself is proof of a Higher Intelligence that created it with order.