Atheists:

  • Thread starter Thread starter bradwill911
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I That Jesus Camp documentary was annoying and definitely contributed to my discomfort in this supernatural stuff.
Jesus Camp. I felt so sorry for those poor kids. Some of that stuff was bordering on child abuse.

Some scenes, especially that kid, telling that big lady that when he was 5 years year, he felt something was missing from his life, so he turned to Jesus.

What freaking 5 year sits there and ponders how he could turn his life over to Jesus, unless his parents are cramming it down his throat!

Jesus camp, very, very , very disturbing and I watched those scenes when I was a practicing Catholic and I found it very unsettling.
 
It is dishonest. People only act out, the way they believe they are supposed to act out. If it were all true, and it’s not, people would be speaking in tougnes constantly, all day, at any particular time.

Hmmm… yet it only happens in Church, and not while your sitting in the middle of a job interview or while your writing an exam.

The Holy Spirit seems to only fill the believes when they are around like minded individuals.
Prove that it is dishonest. If it is truly a gift of the Holy Spirit, then it would seem reasonable that it would only work when He gives it to us, not whenever we want it.
If that were the case, it could not be called a gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
Jesus Camp. I felt so sorry for those poor kids. Some of that stuff was bordering on child abuse.

Some scenes, especially that kid, telling that big lady that when he was 5 years year, he felt something was missing from his life, so he turned to Jesus.

What freaking 5 year sits there and ponders how he could turn his life over to Jesus, unless his parents are cramming it down his throat!

Jesus camp, very, very , very disturbing and I watched those scenes when I was a practicing Catholic and I found it very unsettling.
Jesus Camp isn’t Catholic, it is radical Protestantism. I don’t approve of it myself much either.
 
***Originally Posted by Veritas248
Well, they must not have been obeying the teachings of the faith. Sad indeed.

Nah, I’ll mention it here.

I was about 12, maybe 13, and my grandmother took me to a charismatic mass. We were asked to go up to the altar and be touched by the priest. When he touched my head, I blacked out, losing control of my body. I was conscious, but unable to do anything. I couldn’t even see. It was a remarkable experience, and its all the proof of God I need.***

This is proof of the supernatural and there are many stories like this but the Church has ***never approved of"Charismatic Masses" until after Vatican Two and even then Rome frowned on them. *** why–The Devil was in the doings–proof of evil–but still supernatural.

What was the reason for your inability to do anything. Stories such as this are a dime a dozen and they prove nothing except that the supernatural exists. I have read many, and so what? You were in disobedience with your Grandmother by attending such a “service.” Those masses are condemned—look it up. Before Vatican Two–they never existed, no one ever heard of them-- Many like that were called Satanic Masses–where possessed people cavorted!!

That’s what’s it probably was and yes, I have friends and real priests who would agree with me…

Maybe you could not do anything because you should not have been doing what you were doing–attending a false Mass! Sacrilegious too–shame on your grandmother–she should have know better. Emotionalism–that’s what she was after!:sad_yes: the thrill of and for what comes with the “signs and wonders…”

-mhpierce-
 
More like indifference.

We can continue this tomorrow. Night, people. 🙂
Well you did say that you wouldn’t comfortable writhing around on the floor- could it be that you are just uncomfortable being under the influence of something greater than you?
 
At the time, I wasn’t sure what the purpose of the mass was. I kept asking my grandmother and she told me just to wait and experience it. So, no, I wasn’t expecting it. I didn’t even find out it was called being slain in the spirit until later.
You mean to tell me, that you didn’t even have an inkling that something was different about that mass, or you didn’t see the charismatic faces of the believers all around you or you didn’t see anyone else go up to the priest.

Man, I’d love that opportunity, I’d just stand there and stare at the priest with a blank look on my face while I’m being slayed in the spirit.
 
More like indifference.

We can continue this tomorrow. Night, people. 🙂
Well you did say that you wouldn’t comfortable writhing around on the floor- could it be that you are just uncomfortable being under the influence of something greater than you?

Night. I’m fixing to head off myself.
 
This is proof of the supernatural
This is proof of nothing.

If I tell you that I was abducted by aliens, by your logic, you absolutely have to say;

’ That is proof of Alien abduction’

It is not proof of anything, nor is Veritas’s story.
 
You mean to tell me, that you didn’t even have an inkling that something was different about that mass, or you didn’t see the charismatic faces of the believers all around you or you didn’t see anyone else go up to the priest.

Man, I’d love that opportunity, I’d just stand there and stare at the priest with a blank look on my face while I’m being slayed in the spirit.
No, I just didn’t expect to go limp when the priest touched me beforehand… In fact, after I saw what was happening, I tried to see if I could fight it, to not fall victim to it. It did not work.

You give way too much credit to hypnosis.
 
This is proof of nothing.

If I tell you that I was abducted by aliens, by your logic, you absolutely have to say;

’ That is proof of Alien abduction’

It is not proof of anything, nor is Veritas’s story.
Well, I’m not going to say what happened to me is going to convince anyone, but I’m also not going to sit back and let you say it didn’t happen.
If it doesn’t convince you then fine, but don’t tell me what I did or did not experience when you weren’t there.
 
More like indifference.

We can continue this tomorrow. Night, people. 🙂
Well you did say that you wouldn’t comfortable writhing around on the floor- could it be that you are just uncomfortable being under the influence of something greater than you?

Night. I’m fixing to head off myself.🙂
 
Sacrilegious too–shame on your grandmother–she should have know better.
That’s not a very nice thing to say about the guy’s grandma, come on man, lighten up. It’s the same God, ain’t it?

Or did Vatican II swap the God with a new God?
 
***Originally Posted by Veritas248
Well, they must not have been obeying the teachings of the faith. Sad indeed.

Nah, I’ll mention it here.

I was about 12, maybe 13, and my grandmother took me to a charismatic mass. We were asked to go up to the altar and be touched by the priest. When he touched my head, I blacked out, losing control of my body. I was conscious, but unable to do anything. I couldn’t even see. It was a remarkable experience, and its all the proof of God I need.***

This is proof of the supernatural and there are many stories like this but the Church has ***never approved of"Charismatic Masses" until after Vatican Two and even then Rome frowned on them. *** why–The Devil was in the doings–proof of evil–but still supernatural.

What was the reason for your inability to do anything. Stories such as this are a dime a dozen and they prove nothing except that the supernatural exists. I have read many, and so what? You were in disobedience with your Grandmother by attending such a “service.” Those masses are condemned—look it up. Before Vatican Two–they never existed, no one ever heard of them-- Many like that were called Satanic Masses–where possessed people cavorted!!

That’s what’s it probably was and yes, I have friends and real priests who would agree with me…

Maybe you could not do anything because you should not have been doing what you were doing–attending a false Mass! Sacrilegious too–shame on your grandmother–she should have know better. Emotionalism–that’s what she was after!:sad_yes: the thrill of and for what comes with the “signs and wonders…”

-mhpierce-
Ah, so you’re a Traditionalist Catholic, eh.
Well I’m afraid that there is an impenetrable wall between the two of us.
I have faith that the Holy Spirit protected the Church during Vatican 2.
You aren’t limiting the power of the Spirit, are you?
 
I’m starting to get the impression that everyone here is out to kill me.:ehh:
 
That’s not a very nice thing to say about the guy’s grandma, come on man, lighten up. It’s the same God, ain’t it?

Or did Vatican II swap the God with a new God?
Phantasm:

They swapped the truth for lies and new sacraments that are not sacraments. A very serious affront to God and His Church–founded by His Son.

Their New God Stuff is Lies, As is their Mass and NEWCHURCH ideas. Vatican II is and was a travesty… Y

ou have said more than you realize and I stick to what I said about his grandmother-spare me Greandmothers who are like that—there are many!

God is not a joke–and God’s Church is not the same founded by His Son, not any more, not sine 1969.

I cannot lighten up about such serious affronts and about institutions that lie and yet call themselves authentic… Too many souls are at stake…

What I said is the truth and many such as myself have ample proof… of those weird Masses and the experiences many boast about, as if they were positive–they are not!

–mhpierce–
 
Ah, so you’re a Traditionalist Catholic, eh.
Well I’m afraid that there is an impenetrable wall between the two of us.
I have faith that the Holy Spirit protected the Church during Vatican 2.
You aren’t limiting the power of the Spirit, are you?
Veritas:

You should change your name–truth belies you!

The Holy Spirit can only protect the traditional truth He has already delineated. No traditional truths were promulgated, as before, at that horrid Council.

Vatican II was not a dogmatic council and the aftermath and it’s fruits are horrible. Its documents contain 202 heresies–and can be proven and have been by many real Catholic scholars.

I eschew the word Traditionalist. I am an Orthodox Roman Catholic.

This period of time now is unprescendted in the Church. The Holy Spirt cannot “change His mind,” which is really what you are saying. You too are confused as are millions–diabolic disorientation–

-How can the Holy Spirit go along with lies–He is the arbitor of all revelaed Truth-and Traditions, and dogmas, as Truth does not CHANGE. You are really confused, are you not? You may believe anything about Vatican II you have been taught–but that does not mean that it is correct or true.

-mhpierce–
 
Veritas:

You should change your name–truth belies you!

**The Holy Spirit can only protect the traditional truth He has already delineated. No traditional truths were promulgated, as before, at that horrid Council. **

Vatican II was not a dogmatic council and the aftermath and it’s fruits are horrible. Its documents contain 202 heresies–and can be proven and have been by many real Catholic scholars.

I eschew the word Traditionalist. I am an Orthodox Roman Catholic.

This period of time now is unprescendted in the Church. The Holy Spirt cannot “change His mind,” which is really what you are saying. You too are confused as are millions–diabolic disorientation–

-How can the Holy Spirit go along with lies–He is the arbitor of all revelaed Truth-and Traditions, and dogmas, as Truth does not CHANGE. You are really confused, are you not? You may believe anything about Vatican II you have been taught–but that does not mean that it is correct or true.

-mhpierce–
That bolded part is what I do not agree with. Who are we to say “the Holy Spirit can only…”?
The Spirit can do what He wants, and nothing we say or do can stop Him.
I do agree that a lot of people have misinterpreted the teachings of Vatican II, but that doesn’t mean that the Council itself is wrong.
Jesus said that the gates of hell would never prevail over his Church. I am more inclined to believe Jesus than you. To believe that the Church went wrong would require me to think Jesus a liar and question the Omnipotence of the Spirit. I’m sorry, I just can’t do that.

Now I really AM going to bed.
 
I honestly don’t get it either. If you have a choice between hope and no hope…why would you choose no hope. Absolutely mind boggling!
Can you honestly choose to decide that your remote control is a blueberry? I can think up ways to lie to rationalize it, but my brain won’t let me honestly think it is anything other than a remote, since any other way doesn’t make sense to me. It is the same with me and Catholicism. I have never wanted to leave Catholicism, but it does not make sense to me anymore, so much so that for me to continue to call myself Catholic would be a lie, therefore, I am unable to have belief. I grew up in a religious family, so me not being religious is cause for pain for them, and assuredly problems in the future with them, that I am not looking forward to. I would love to have that hope but it is on a path that does not seem accurate to me, therefore my brain won’t let me believe it. We can do actions to try to influence belief, but belief itself is not a choice.

I would rather have the thought that I will have complete happiness after death and see my deceased loved ones, than to think of life/death as finality and pointlessness. I do what I can to keep myself positive, even with these thoughts in my head.
If man were to create a fictional Being and call it God - wouldnt that man - let alone men of different eras - create a God that allowed adultery, homo relations, hate - revenge - and whatever else our little hearts really do think we want?
The social contract is what makes for an efficient society with consistent benefits. It’s the simple golden rule. I don’t want my spouse to cheat on me, so why think it is OK that I do it to him? Short term enjoyment is far inferior to stable long term enjoyment. Besides, there are many religions out there which espouse mostly good values.
Animals eat their young. They eat their own defecation. They drink blood and tear into raw muscles of other creatures. They have intercourse with whoever is nearby. They do not have permanent relationships and faithfulness. They do not build homes or do commerce or create wealth.
Sure this applies to a lot of animals, but not all. Animals that form lifelong pair bonds include ‘beavers, otters, wolves, some bats and foxes ‘ (livescience.com/animals/061120_monogamous_animals.html)
Can’t forget that humans have a disheartening adultery rate themselves too, and many of the aforementioned behaviors can be found in human history.
40.png
Veritas248:
The problem is trying to comprehend how one could not be given over to despair when they believe and or know that there will be a point in time when they will not exist at all. The more and more I think about it, the more and more distressed I become. Its like sitting there and thinking: I exist now, but one of these days I wont. I will completely fade away. All my thoughts, wants, likes, and interests will be nothing at all. Everything I have ever done will amount to nothing, and even if it does, I won’t be around to see it.
Yes, it is very depressing, and takes a long time to wrap one’s head around it. I’m still in the process of doing that. The circle of life gives me a little bit of comfort. I work in healthcare, and when a baby is born, a lullaby is played overhead. Sometimes this plays not too long after a code blue is called.

You didn’t feel pain or loss before you were born, and neither shall you after death. Sure the prospect of dying is scary, but being dead isn’t. What is the root of fear for you? I thought about this, and the root of all fear that I could come up with is pain, whether it be physical or emotional. The main fear surrounding death for me is pain when dying, emotional pain of things undone and pain of potential meaninglessness of it all, and the pain my loved ones will go through. It still seems strange that I won’t wake up, can’t reload/restart, but that’s just how it is. I have to focus on the fact that hopefully there is some meaning to my life in the sense that I have influenced others, done good works, and will have raised good kids. We all offer our own little piece to the story of humanity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top