Athiests can go to heaven?

  • Thread starter Thread starter imadesomanymist
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I

imadesomanymist

Guest
What makes the pope think that athiests can go to heaven when scripture says

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

they wont and they will go to the lake of fire
 
What makes the pope think that athiests can go to heaven when scripture says

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

they wont and they will go to the lake of fire
God knows far better than you or I why a person is an atheist. If he chooses to judge them according to what they knew and did not know, that is His decision.

Paul wrote:

Romans 2:13-15
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Even though Paul speaks of judgment according to the gospel and writes this after the Law of Christ was already in force, it is clear that he was talking about their standing before the coming of Christ. When they did what was right (according to the law of God that governed them before Christ) they were a “law unto themselves.”

So, Paul suggests that Gentiles may be saved, and you should not judge the Pope who understands Paul’s meaning.
 
God knows far better than you or I why a person is an atheist. If he chooses to judge them according to what they knew and did not know, that is His decision.

Paul wrote:

Romans 2:13-15
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Even though Paul speaks of judgment according to the gospel and writes this after the Law of Christ was already in force, it is clear that he was talking about their standing before the coming of Christ. When they did what was right (according to the law of God that governed them before Christ) they were a “law unto themselves.”

So, Paul suggests that Gentiles may be saved, and you should not judge the Pope who understands Paul’s meaning.
👍

I believe that God will finally connect with our atheist and agnostic brothers and sisters on the other side. We don’t know why they didn’t or couldn’t recognize their relationship with God while on Earth, and we shouldn’t judge them for something we really cannot understand. Thus, we shouldn’t assume we know what lies ahead for them. That’s God’s job, not ours. We are called to love.
 
first thing’s first, the pope did not say that. if i remember correctly, he said to theists to start by doing good and we would meet there.
 
Yes, but when they’re there, they won’t believe it.
 
I think the Pope is referring to the reality that folks who appear atheist to the end, can have a ‘Damascus Moment’ {conversion/conciliation/reconciliation] even at their last breath, by dint of the Divine Mercy and God taking into account any good works on behalf of ‘their neighbour’ they may have made, and also not forgetting the prayers and biddings of righteous folks that do indeed ‘move’ God’s forgiveness and love.
 
What makes the pope think that athiests can go to heaven when scripture says

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

they wont and they will go to the lake of fire
First, to avoid the sin of rash judgment, shouldn’t you, as a good Christian, at least know the context in which Pope Francis was speaking?
 
What makes the pope think that athiests can go to heaven when scripture says

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

they wont and they will go to the lake of fire
He did not say that plain and simple.

He said we should meet atheists in acts of charity and work with them there. Maybe a little Christianity will rub off on them.

I hope you can agree with that.

He said Christ died for the redemption of everyone even atheists, This is true, Christ died for all his gift is available to all, and he will give it to anyone who accepts his gift.
 
👍

I believe that God will finally connect with our atheist and agnostic brothers and sisters on the other side. We don’t know why they didn’t or couldn’t recognize their relationship with God while on Earth, and we shouldn’t judge them for something we really cannot understand. Thus, we shouldn’t assume we know what lies ahead for them. That’s God’s job, not ours. We are called to love.
Yes we are called to love and minister to atheists and all non Christians. The only hope for salvation is found within the church. Any salvation outside the church (for example untouched people groups) is speculative and a hope in God’s mercy and justice.

The church is very clear that there are not any “connection aha moments” on the other side. There are no second chances. WE have this life to make our choice and it has eternal significance.
**It is necessary to explain that the state of purification is not a prolungation of the earthly condition, almost as if after death one were given another possibility to change one’s destiny. The Church’s teaching in this regard is unequivocal **and was reaffirmed by the Second Vatican Council which teaches: "Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed (cf. Heb 9: 27), we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where “men will weep and gnash their teeth’ (Mt 22: 13 and 25: 30)” (Lumen gentium, n. 48).
 
If they repent they can. And we never know. The thief on the cross next to Jesus repented and went to heaven at the last few hours of his life. God is merciful.
 
What makes the pope think that athiests can go to heaven when scripture says

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

they wont and they will go to the lake of fire
Why do you assume that atheist are any or all of these things? There are plenty of theists who fit into any number of the above category’s.
 
Yes we are called to love and minister to atheists and all non Christians. The only hope for salvation is found within the church. Any salvation outside the church (for example untouched people groups) is speculative and a hope in God’s mercy and justice.

The church is very clear that there are not any “connection aha moments” on the other side. There are no second chances. WE have this life to make our choice and it has eternal significance.
Your quote doesn’t necessarily apply to atheists or agnostics, but people who do know that they should be better. To be wicked and slothful, you kind of have to choose wickedness and slothfulness. There are many, many good and kindhearted atheists and agnostics in the world. I think they just don’t yet recognize a relationship with God.

I remain hopeful in God’s mercy and justice.
 
Your quote doesn’t necessarily apply to atheists or agnostics, but people who do know that they should be better. To be wicked and slothful, you kind of have to choose wickedness and slothfulness. There are many, many good and kindhearted atheists and agnostics in the world. I think they just don’t yet recognize a relationship with God.

I remain hopeful in God’s mercy and justice.
If after death we see and hear God and have it all revealed to us and then decide, why bother now. May as well live your life however you want and if the big man is real you will find out when you die and say sorry. Right ?

Perhaps these quotes will be more clear on the Church’s unequivocal position. It is best to hope and pray for Gods mercy on the living and that they convert their hearts to him.
1021 **Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ **.592 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded **immediately after death **in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul–a destiny which can be different for some and for others.593
1022** Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death,** in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 – or immediate and everlasting damnation.596
At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.597
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. ** Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, **where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618
 
What makes the pope think that athiests can go to heaven when scripture says

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

they wont and they will go to the lake of fire
Objectively speaking, if one dies in the state described, it’s the lake of fire for them. That’s true.

Do you have the **quote properly referenced, **from the pope where he contradicts that?
 
Objectively speaking, if one dies in the state described, it’s the lake of fire for them. That’s true.

Do you have the quote properly referenced, from the pope where he contradicts that?
Atheists can’t go Heaven because they haven’t accepted Christ’s blood to have their sins forgiven. It is impossible for an atheist to go to Heaven.
 
Atheists can’t go Heaven because they haven’t accepted Christ’s blood to have their sins forgiven. It is impossible for an atheist to go to Heaven.
The question was

" What makes the pope think that athiests can go to heaven"

and I’m asking for the quote properly referenced.
 
They can’t.

It’s really that simple.
I’m asking that person to provide the actual quote from the pope that he said what he is alleged to have said. I want to see the actual quote properly referenced.
 
What makes the pope think that athiests can go to heaven when scripture says

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

they wont and they will go to the lake of fire
Not all atheists are unbelievers in the more essential sense of the word, and so not all of them are necessarily abominable in God’s sight because they don’t believe in His existence. Surely, most of them aren’t murderers, whoremongers, and liars because they choose not to believe in the existence of God or explicitly profess faith in Jesus Christ. The truth is that even atheists or “non-believers” can please God and attain eternal life by performing acts of faith by the influence and assistance of divine grace, regardless of whether they acknowledge God’s providential care; although getting to heaven is much harder for anyone without their participation in the sacramental life of the Church and without prayer. St. Paul assures us that everyone who obeys the Mosaic moral law shall be declared righteous and just before God, including those who are unacquainted with the Torah or sacred Scripture. The requirements of the spirit of the law are written in the hearts of all human beings, and thus they are a law unto themselves. Indeed, their conscience bears witness to their moral standing with God. It’s grave voice either defends or condemns our acts from the moment they are contemplated to the time they are completed. So the secret thoughts of many shall be revealed at the final judgment in accord with the Gospel truths (Rom 2:12-16). St. John concurs: “If our hearts do not condemn us, we have boldness before God … because we obey his commandments and do whatever he asks” (1 Jn 3:22-23).

God does in fact speak to all people through their conscience which, therefore, judges whether they are assenting to a divine truth. If in a state of correctness - unimpaired by the errors of human reasoning and rationalizations - conscience acts as a judge besides as a medium of divine truth. This God given faculty which holds the divine law lies at the core of our being. It enjoins us at the appropriate moment to do good and avoid doing evil. As judge, conscience approves of our intentions and acts if they are good and denounces them if they are wicked. Meanwhile it acts as a reliable witness to the authority of truth in light of the Supreme Good towards which all human beings are drawn. Thus when we listen to the voice of our conscience, we do in fact hear God speaking to us. John H Cardinal Newman has said, “Conscience is a messenger of Him, who both in nature and grace speaks to us behind a veil, and teaches and rules us by his representative. Conscience is the aboriginal Vicar of Christ.” Hence, it is by the judgment of their conscience that even atheists may perceive and acknowledge the moral prescriptions of the divine law, making them morally accountable, just as we Christians are, for their deeds. "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself " (Ezekiel 18:20).

Conscience naturally is the fundamental source of all moral obligation for all human beings in their relations with one another. Atheists as well can assent to a divine truth which is contained in the spirit of the law without having to open the New Testament or be a member of a Christian church. An atheist with a well-formed conscience should know just as much as a well-versed Christian does that we should love our enemies and do good to those who hate us (cf. Mt 5:44). Their conscience would certainly admonish them if they thought about doing something wicked towards their enemies or refused to act charitably towards them at the appropriate opportunity. By obeying the law written in their hearts and choosing good over evil, atheists are in fact acting in faith. Those who choose to do good to those who hate them are indeed collaborating with the Holy Spirit, who inspires and assists them with His grace. In the framework of faith, the material object of their act would be, in this case, the essential meaning and importance of the words of Christ spoken by our Lord in the Gospel in the form of a command, which would naturally thus belong to the law written in their hearts; the formal object is its character of being a divinely revealed truth which must be assented to in order to please God and remain in His grace, without which nobody can be saved. “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him” (Jn 14:23). By keeping Christ’s word as it is written in their hearts, atheists really love the Lord despite the fact they aren’t aware of it; at least they do objectively by any act of faith of theirs.

PAX
🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top