Athiests: Prove that God dosen't exist

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eucharisted
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
How do you use the analogy “treat others as you would want to be treated” in this case?

That is so illogical!😛
Off topic.

Stick to the topic, people! If you can’t prove God dose’t exist, than either just say so or don’t post in this thread.
 
I make the demand because athiests make the same demand on believers.
The burden is always on the claim that it’s true. It can’t be reversed.

There is a stalemate on either side for now.
Yeah, we can’t disprove god and you can’t prove god…but we are not about to convert when it can’t be proven. The burden is always on the one claiming something to be true. Read the UFO analogy above.
Your request is not justified.
 
Offtopic. This thread is about atheists proving God dosen’t exist.
How is this off topic :confused:

Just because you call yourself a Roman Catholic doesn’t mean I know how you best describe the god to be proved or disproved.

Edit: For instance, you claim that one of the ways that you won’t accept is arguing that Jesus isn’t God – but that’s exactly what official RCC doctrine states and some people who call themselves Catholic quietly doubt.

Disproving Jesus is God is as good as proving that the god described by RCC doctrine does not exist, though perhaps some other god may exist.
 
How is this off topic :confused:

Just because you call yourself a Roman Catholic doesn’t mean I know how you best describe the god to be proved or disproved.
I gave you an article on the Catholic belief in God. Jesus is God Incarnate, so proving Jesus isn’t God dose not prove God dosen’t exist. At best, proving Jesus isn’t God would prove Christianity is false. But God existed long before Jesus was born, and, as a Jew, Jesus worshipped God, and Christianity, like Judaism, believes in only one God, who is infinite, eternal, omnipotent, etc. So “God dosen’t exist because Jesus isn’t God” is an emotional argument.
 
The bible says we should cry out to God for understanding of him.

Here goes:

Arrrrrrghhhhhhhhharrrrrrrrrhhhhhh

As usual, no reply.

There is my proof.
 
The bible says we should cry out to God for understanding of him.

Here goes:

Arrrrrrghhhhhhhhharrrrrrrrrhhhhhh

As usual, no reply.

There is my proof.
No emotional answers are allowed. Nine examples of emotional answers:

God dosen’t exist because my prayers aren’t answered.
 
I believe the following applies to this post.

“When an arguer cannot provide the evidence for his claims, he may challenge his opponent to prove it doesn’t exist (e.g., prove God doesn’t exist; prove UFO’s haven’t visited earth, etc.). Although one may prove non-existence in special limitations, such as showing that a box does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence, or non-existence out of ignorance. One cannot prove something that does not exist. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.

Science attempts to apply some of the following criteria:
  1. Skepticism of unsupported claims
  2. Combination of an open mind with critical thinking
  3. Attempts to repeat experimental results.
  4. Requires testability
  5. Seeks out falsifying data that would disprove a hypothesis
  6. Uses descriptive language
  7. Performs controlled experiments
  8. Self-correcting
  9. Relies on evidence and reason
  10. Makes no claim for absolute or certain knowledge
  11. Produces useful knowledge
Pseudoscience and religion relies on some of the following criteria:
  1. Has a negative attitude to skepticism
  2. Does not require critical thinking
  3. Does not require experimental repeatability
  4. Does not require tests
  5. Does not accept falsifying data that would disprove a hypothesis
  6. Uses vague language
  7. Relies on anecdotal evidence
  8. No self-correction
  9. Relies on belief and faith
  10. Makes absolute claims
  11. Produces no useful knowledge
This is interesting. I don’t have the time now, since I’m leaving, but I intend to revisit this and reply. Is this something you just made up, or is this a common set of lists that get used?

I disagree with some in the second list (of course, because I have faith), but I also disagree with some in the first list. Or, let me put it this way - the first 11 seem like lofty goals that science SHOULD reach, but I believe there’s a lot of short cuts going on!

Also, it seems like the second list is the “worst case scenario” or religious stereotype. Like some sort of fundamentalist who believes in a 6 day creation, man and dinosaurs together a la the Flintstones, and God writing the bible himself with a Sharpie:rolleyes:

Keep in mind the some of the world’s greatest thinkers DID have faith and some of them wrote for the Catholic Church.

Also the lists are skewed with charged words: In the first one, science “ATTEMPTS” (you noble scientists you) and the second list (which lumps pseudoscience and religion together, why?) the poor religious sap, “RELIES ON” (you uneducated fool you)

(geez I gotta go) BUT- look at number 1 - negative attitude toward skepticism? come on!

I’m a dad and make sure my kids have a healthy skepticism, even while raising them in the Catholic Faith.

#11 - produces no useful knowledge? What is more useful then the self-knowledge that comes from religious reflection and meditation?
The knowledge that we are indeed our brother’s keeper?
The golden rule?
Far from useless knowledge.

more later
 
You are asking us to provide a logical fallacy through the use of an argument based on negative evidence. We say that since you are the one making an outrageous claim, the existence of something that cannot be seen, heard, or felt (tactilely) that the burden of proof falls firmly on you.

The problem here is that you don’t want to hear that you are asking an illogical question.
 
Me, pretending to be an atheist: I may have no proof to deny God’s existence, but why must God exist? I accept creation exists. It would seem absurd to do otherwise. Now, you have your Bible, and I can look at it, as a piece of literature. This character, Jesus, he claims; when asked, to be a king without a kingdom of this world. Did he kill his father to become heir of the throne? Or did his father die? If Jesus and his father are admitted to being one, then who is God; when Jesus is heir to the throne of a dead God? It may be: God once existed, but Jesus did away with his existence, in the New Testament. Granted: God is defined as infinite and therefore, Lutherans would say, we have a paradox, an apparent contradiction–two kings, and three, when the Holy Ghost is communicated as a matter of a person, to be believed. Lord knows without the Holy Ghost to have an account written about the other two, the whole story of God’s relations to creation, and creatures, it seems self-serving, and less credible among two instead of three witnesses.

The difficulty with evidence, concerning God’s existence-is this point of infinity. God is infinite; yet, Jesus is put forward to have been a man; he is regarded to having made a statement, that he is God–Jews regarded this to be criminal, and used Roman law, to have their “law” upheld and therefore, he was sentenced to death. God is again dead. This seems more feasible as Jesus is man; except, there is an empty tomb: if there was a body snatcher under the noses of Roman legion soldiers; there is not a story rooted in fact, about a theif being caught, but the body is seen–three days later with a man, an Apostle, sticking his fingers through a hole in one hand, an effect of a nail driven through it: evidence of crucifixion. This walking corpse ascends, bodily, into heaven some forty days after the third day of his crucifixion–again enters the Holy Ghost, and the birth of the Roman Rite. Peter was recognized in Jesus’ other, more earthly life, as a foundation, a rock, and a rather small one–given his lack of godhead; nonetheless, a fisherman faces the mother of Jesus, his fellow apostles, and a profound story has unfolded. It was popular to such an extent among Romans, that successive Roman Emperors declared themselves gods. It was humiliating enough to Jews, that they apparently, by-and-large, rid themselves of the whole story, about a coming messiah. Crucifixions continued within the Roman Empire. It has been a costly story. Crucifixions outside the Roman Empire occurred. In Japan, during the 1400’s, Japanese children adhering to Catholic belief–were crucified by the Japanese emperor. Crosses remain standing. The credility of this story, given Roman persecution of Jews, is believable if not in detail, then clearly in purpose, but for the reason: it corrupted the Roman Empire from within, while making it feasible some three or four hundred years later–to live out from under it.

The story seems to change. Somehow the Crucifixion of Jesus, takes on a different meaning: when you as Christians personalize the story–a man who healed; cast out demons, and submitted to his father’s will, that brought about the end of his life, as a consequence more of ignorance–if Jesus’ view is accepted–is accepted as something done for you, and God’s love toward you. You may say, God loves me as well. What evidence have you–except a story, either of literary, or historical value, and the story except for the plot, and the characters, might actually be rather poor as literature goes–this of course, might only be rooted in the point, the Bible seems written to a level of intelligence, appropriate to those who are in modern, US terms, eighth graders, and this among a nation populated by those only able to attend largely failed public educational institutions, and this must be the responsibility of a teacher’s union; one migh suspect. And it seems worthwhile to further as a point, the apparent intended intellectual level of literacy, for whom the Bible is written, is an age or grade, less than the maturity level of a twenty-five year old’s developed, matured, brain. Of course, I have to accept the counter arguement, that parents would teach this to their children, as mature adults, to their children not to exploit their immature development, but of love, and for healthy development of their children; nonetheless, such care is not always seen among those of society, those of religion, ownership of land, and political power–the educated by-and-large, to be concerned about families; except as a means to control labor, the production of their wealth.

It should be God is evidenced by justice, rather than by man’s attempt to foil it.
 
You are asking us to provide a logical fallacy through the use of an argument based on negative evidence. We say that since you are the one making an outrageous claim, the existence of something that cannot be seen, heard, or felt (tactilely) that the burden of proof falls firmly on you.

The problem here is that you don’t want to hear that you are asking an illogical question.
The problem is some atheists don’t want to prove that God dosen’t exist. That’s what this thread is about. Check out cheese’s posts.
 
You are asking us to provide a logical fallacy through the use of an argument based on negative evidence. We say that since you are the one making an outrageous claim, the existence of something that cannot be seen, heard, or felt (tactilely) that the burden of proof falls firmly on you.

The problem here is that you don’t want to hear that you are asking an illogical question.
Well Said!!
 
Me, pretending to be an atheist: I may have no proof to deny God’s existence, but why must God exist? I accept creation exists. It would seem absurd to do otherwise. Now, you have your Bible, and I can look at it, as a piece of literature. This character, Jesus, he claims; when asked, to be a king without a kingdom of this world. Did he kill his father to become heir of the throne? Or did his father die? If Jesus and his father are admitted to being one, then who is God; when Jesus is heir to the throne of a dead God? It may be: God once existed, but Jesus did away with his existence, in the New Testament. Granted: God is defined as infinite and therefore, Lutherans would say, we have a paradox, an apparent contradiction–two kings, and three, when the Holy Ghost is communicated as a matter of a person, to be believed. Lord knows without the Holy Ghost to have an account written about the other two, the whole story of God’s relations to creation, and creatures, it seems self-serving, and less credible among two instead of three witnesses.

The difficulty with evidence, concerning God’s existence-is this point of infinity. God is infinite; yet, Jesus is put forward to have been a man; he is regarded to having made a statement, that he is God–Jews regarded this to be criminal, and used Roman law, to have their “law” upheld and therefore, he was sentenced to death. God is again dead. This seems more feasible as Jesus is man; except, there is an empty tomb: if there was a body snatcher under the noses of Roman legion soldiers; there is not a story rooted in fact, about a theif being caught, but the body is seen–three days later with a man, an Apostle, sticking his fingers through a hole in one hand, an effect of a nail driven through it: evidence of crucifixion. This walking corpse ascends, bodily, into heaven some forty days after the third day of his crucifixion–again enters the Holy Ghost, and the birth of the Roman Rite. Peter was recognized in Jesus’ other, more earthly life, as a foundation, a rock, and a rather small one–given his lack of godhead; nonetheless, a fisherman faces the mother of Jesus, his fellow apostles, and a profound story has unfolded. It was popular to such an extent among Romans, that successive Roman Emperors declared themselves gods. It was humiliating enough to Jews, that they apparently, by-and-large, rid themselves of the whole story, about a coming messiah. Crucifixions continued within the Roman Empire. It has been a costly story. Crucifixions outside the Roman Empire occurred. In Japan, during the 1400’s, Japanese children adhering to Catholic belief–were crucified by the Japanese emperor. Crosses remain standing. The credility of this story, given Roman persecution of Jews, is believable if not in detail, then clearly in purpose, but for the reason: it corrupted the Roman Empire from within, while making it feasible some three or four hundred years later–to live out from under it.

The story seems to change. Somehow the Crucifixion of Jesus, takes on a different meaning: when you as Christians personalize the story–a man who healed; cast out demons, and submitted to his father’s will, that brought about the end of his life, as a consequence more of ignorance–if Jesus’ view is accepted–is accepted as something done for you, and God’s love toward you. You may say, God loves me as well. What evidence have you–except a story, either of literary, or historical value, and the story except for the plot, and the characters, might actually be rather poor as literature goes–this of course, might only be rooted in the point, the Bible seems written to a level of intelligence, appropriate to those who are in modern, US terms, eighth graders, and this among a nation populated by those only able to attend largely failed public educational institutions, and this must be the responsibility of a teacher’s union; one migh suspect. And it seems worthwhile to further as a point, the apparent intended intellectual level of literacy, for whom the Bible is written, is an age or grade, less than the maturity level of a twenty-five year old’s developed, matured, brain. Of course, I have to accept the counter arguement, that parents would teach this to their children, as mature adults, to their children not to exploit their immature development, but of love, and for healthy development of their children; nonetheless, such care is not always seen among those of society, those of religion, ownership of land, and political power–the educated by-and-large, to be concerned about families; except as a means to control labor, the production of their wealth.

It should be God is evidenced by justice, rather than by man’s attempt to foil it.
Off topic.
 
At best, proving Jesus isn’t God would prove Christianity is false. But God existed long before Jesus was born
Do you go to church? Every Sunday you repeat the Nicene Creed.

According to RCC doctrine, Jesus has existed eternally with God and is one with him.
, and, as a Jew, Jesus worshipped God
Be careful here. The RCC doctrine is more nuanced. According to RCC doctrine Jesus had both a human and a divine will. His human will worshiped God.
and Christianity, like Judaism, believes in only one God, who is infinite, eternal, omnipotent, etc.
However, doctrinally Christians believe that Jews worship a triune god, but just don’t know or accept that he’s a triune god.
So “God dosen’t exist because Jesus isn’t God” is an emotional argument.
It would prove that a specific idea of god does not exist. What you are asking then is to disprove that several different ideas of what God could be don’t exist. That’s not something worth pursuing until we first identify them.

However, let me ask you two questions:
  1. Do you accept the validity of well-tested physical theories.
  2. Do you consider God the creator of the entirety of nature?
  3. Do you believe that God would deceive us?
 
[Removed double post… something’s odd with my browser or something]
 
However, let me ask you two questions:
  1. Do you accept the validity of well-tested physical theories.
  2. Do you consider God the creator of the entirety of nature?
  3. Do you believe that God would deceive us?
  1. Yes. Until new theories topple them, so to speak.
  2. Yes. He created all good things.
  3. No. God is the Truth and the Truth cannot deceive.
And there are three different people in the world: Those who can count and those who can’t. :D:D:D (No offense meant)
 
The problem is some atheists don’t want to prove that God dosen’t exist. That’s what this thread is about. Check out cheese’s posts.
The problem is that it is not possible to prove the non-existence of a universal such as god. That goes for the Christian god, Aten, Thor, Bhagavan or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You don’t believe in Thor yet you can’t prove he doesn’t exist.
 
The problem is that it is not possible to prove the non-existence of a universal such as god. That goes for the Christian god, Aten, Thor, Bhagavan or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You don’t believe in Thor yet you can’t prove he doesn’t exist.
Thor is one of many Norse gods.
Only one god exists.
God is the only living god.
Hence, Thor cannot exist.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a parody of God, so of course it dosen’t exist.
 
The problem is that it is not possible to prove the non-existence of a universal such as god. That goes for the Christian god, Aten, Thor, Bhagavan or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You don’t believe in Thor yet you can’t prove he doesn’t exist.
Sorry, I mistyped my first post. It should read, “You can’t prove God’s nonexistence. Just as in the same way that you cannot prove It does exist.”
 
Thor is one of many Norse gods.
Only one god exists.
God is the only living god.
Hence, Thor cannot exist.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a parody of God, so of course it dosen’t exist.
How have you proven God is the only living god?

Just by stating it?

Okay.

Can I do the same? Will it be “proof” you would accept? My say so?
 
Thor is one of many Norse gods.
Only one god exists.
God is the only living god.
Hence, Thor cannot exist.
Sorry, that doesn’t follow. How do you know that there is only one God? And if there is one God, how do you know that your understanding of that Divinity is the one that exists?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top