Athiests: What do you do when....

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The Sunday Christians are closer to atheist than Christian. They go to church to be seen in church, or by force of habit, or to meet some friends and socialize. They may have Christ in their head but not in their heart.

These are the ones most likely to end up leaving the church altogether. If they ever come back, it will be because they have grown up and realized at last that the call to God is real, not manufactured as atheists like to believe.

Many an atheist has come to the same end on his deathbed. In the last analysis, the atheist cannot be absolutely certain there is no God. While he is healthy and hearty, he can spit in God’s face all he likes and think he is a god unto himself.

But the angel of death is another matter altogether. 😉
 
JRKH said:
That being said though, please don’t dismiss the “silent prayer” of the people you mention in your second paragraph. Or the prayer they pray on the way to work asking God for guidance throughout the day. Just because you don’t see them, “go down on their knees and pray to God to enlighten them about a solution”, does not mean they are not relying on God to guide them. Faith can and does function on many levels.
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You may be correct, how would I know? I just cannot visualize a car mechanic invoking a deity to help to mount a tire… On the other hand, I have seen people consulting their Bible even in the office - but they were very few.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
The Sunday Christians are closer to atheist than Christian. They go to church to be seen in church, or by force of habit, or to meet some friends and socialize. They may have Christ in their head but not in their heart.

These are the ones most likely to end up leaving the church altogether. If they ever come back, it will be because they have grown up and realized at last that the call to God is real, not manufactured as atheists like to believe.

Many an atheist has come to the same end on his deathbed. In the last analysis, the atheist cannot be absolutely certain there is no God. While he is healthy and hearty, he can spit in God’s face all he likes and think he is a god unto himself.

But the angel of death is another matter altogether. 😉
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Come on buddy… that is such a strange picture you painted. If someone does not believe in God, how can he “spit into God’s face”? And death bed conversions mean absolutely nothing. Those people are just “hedging their bets”… if I had any faith, I would count on God being fair, and not be offended that I used my God-given abilities to reason, and find the evidence more than lacking. 🙂
 
R_Daneel said:
You may be correct, how would I know? I just cannot visualize a car mechanic invoking a deity to help to mount a tire… On the other hand, I have seen people consulting their Bible even in the office - but they were very few.
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And yet I’ll wager that you can easily “visualize” an atheist invoking a deity that he does not believe exists for the purpose of damning something. 😃

I can even recall hearing the most famous Atheist of the 1960’s invoke God’s name - And I heard this personally. Madeline Murray O’Hare in an interview declared, “I thank God for that!”, in reference so some point that was made.

Peace
James
 
R_Daneel said:
Come on buddy… that is such a strange picture you painted. If someone does not believe in God, how can he “spit into God’s face”? And death bed conversions mean absolutely nothing. Those people are just “hedging their bets”… if I had any faith, I would count on God being fair, and not be offended that I used my God-given abilities to reason, and find the evidence more than lacking. 🙂
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I agree… I hope to have witnesses present when I die so that nobody can claim I converted on my death bed.

I also think it’s a little bit shabby of religious relatives and friends to coerce someone into professing love for God when they’re in the final delerium before death and cannot think straight, making them vulnerable and open to manipulation.

I think Blaise Pascal’s wager is absolutely dreadful to be quite honest. Come into my used car lot and get an eternal warranty, no strings attached!

I’m pretty sure an omnipotent God would be more than capable of seeing through an atheist who sat on his knees making fawning and insincere professions of love to him.

To plagerise a quote, who do you think God would prefer, the man who just couldn’t believe or the man who tried to dupe him? Who is more honest? Who has more humility? Who has more integrity? Who is the more stylish, provokative and sexy out of the two of them?
 
Come on buddy… that is such a strange picture you painted. If someone does not believe in God, how can he “spit into God’s face”?

Did you forget for the moment that you are at a Catholic website? Most of us believe in God. You can deny that you spit in God’s face, but we can hardly deny it.

And death bed conversions mean absolutely nothing.

How do you know this for a fact? Do you know for a fact that there is no God who can forgive, even at the last hour? We can believe it because we saw a sinner saved on the cross right next to Jesus in his last hours.

*Those people are just “hedging their bets”… if I had any faith, I would count on God being fair, and not be offended that I used my God-given abilities to reason, and find the evidence more than lacking. *

Yes, God counts on you to use you God-given abilities to reason. There is nothing irrational about believing in God. There is everything irrational about saying there is no reason for God and not being able to offer one iota of proof for same. 👍

Where is the evidence you must have to prove that God does not exist?

Men of the greatest intellect through all time have believed in some kind of God. Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, DaVinci, Kant, Newton, Voltaire, Jefferson, Lincoln, Einstein. They did not find the evidence more than lacking, as you put it.
 
JRKH said:
And yet I’ll wager that you can easily “visualize” an atheist invoking a deity that he does not believe exists for the purpose of damning something. 😃

I can even recall hearing the most famous Atheist of the 1960’s invoke God’s name - And I heard this personally. Madeline Murray O’Hare in an interview declared, “I thank God for that!”, in reference so some point that was made.
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Well, that is definitely true. 🙂 Now, does it mean something?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Did you forget for the moment that you are at a Catholic website? Most of us believe in God. You can deny that you spit in God’s face, but we can hardly deny it.
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Can’t deny what?
Charlemagne_II said:
How do you know this for a fact? Do you know for a fact that there is no God who can forgive, even at the last hour? We can believe it because we saw a sinner saved on the cross right next to Jesus in his last hours.
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You did not “see” it, unless you have a time machine. Poetic expressions are nice… but they cannot be taken verbatim.
Charlemagne_II said:
Yes, God counts on you to use you God-given abilities to reason. There is nothing irrational about believing in God. There is everything irrational about saying there is no reason for God and not being able to offer one iota of proof for same. 👍
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Your opinion is duly noted. I happen to disgree, but this is not the topic of this thread.
Charlemagne_II said:
Where is the evidence you must have to prove that God does not exist?
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You confuse “evidence” and “proof”.
Charlemagne_II said:
Men of the greatest intellect through all time have believed in some kind of God. Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, DaVinci, Kant, Newton, Voltaire, Jefferson, Lincoln, Einstein. They did not find the evidence more than lacking, as you put it.
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So what? They also did not believe in many other gods. Deists did not believe in any kind of a “personal” god.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Men of the greatest intellect through all time have believed in some kind of God. Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, DaVinci, Kant, Newton, Voltaire, Jefferson, Lincoln, Einstein. They did not find the evidence more than lacking, as you put it.

Crucially, most of these men were born before the Theory of Evolution was formulated.

Einstein did not believe in God…

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

“No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this…”

“For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people.”

– Albert Einstein, January 3 1954.
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R_Daneel said:
Well, that is definitely true. 🙂 Now, does it mean something?
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It only means that what one sees or hears does not mean that one knows what goes on inside a person.

The mechanic you refer to amy be the most ethical, religious, God fearing and Loving person you ever “didn’t” know, because all you ever got to see of him was his changing a tire. You never got to see that miraculous medal around his neck, or the rosary in his pocket that he prays every day on his lunch hour.
All you got so “see” was his silent prayer of efficient service to you and your needs.

That is one viewpoint.

I know that many athiests say they do not believe in God because they have never found a good reason to, or good evidence to. For me I’ve never found good reasons or evidence not to.

Peace
James
 
moonstruck

Crucially, most of these men were born before the Theory of Evolution was formulated.

How does the theory of evolution disprove the existence of God? 😃 This is going to be fun!

Einstein did not believe in God…

He did not believe in a personal god. He also did not believe in atheism.

“The fanatical atheists are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against traditional religion as the ‘opium of the masses’—cannot hear the music of the spheres.” Albert Einstein
 
moonstruck
  • Originally Posted by Charlemagne II View Post
    Einstein did not believe in God…*
You are citing your own words, not mine. Einstein did believe in God and went out of his way to repudiate atheism on several occasions, as did Jefferson, Paine, Lincoln, Voltaire, and many others who found no evidence to support the atheist position, though that has never stopped atheists from parading them as atheists.
 
moonstruck

*Not really. That topic of discussion has been banned by the forum administrators.

We can’t go there I’m afraid. *

I don’t think the ban applies to private messages, does it? I think it applies only to threads. I’m willing to find out why evolution proves there is no God if you’re willing to explain it privately.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
moonstruck
  • Originally Posted by Charlemagne II View Post
    Einstein did not believe in God…*
You are citing your own words, not mine. Einstein did believe in God and went out of his way to repudiate atheism on several occasions, as did Jefferson, Paine, Lincoln, Voltaire, and many others who found no evidence to support the atheist position, though that has never stopped atheists from parading them as atheists.
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Einstein made a lot of quotes that have been taken out of context be religious people. For some reason they seem to erroneously believe that if they can prove by hook or by crook that Einstein was religious that people like myself would have to stand down.

Einstein actually said quite a lot of things that were wrong. For example, he refused to accept Quantum Theory until it was ratified by experiment, proving that even the most towering intellect does not protect a man from being utterly, stupidly wrong…
 
Charlemagne_II said:
I’m willing to find out why evolution proves there is no God if you’re willing to explain it privately.
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Not really.

I actually don’t think it disproves God. It merely offers an alternative that the vast majority of people of a scientific bent seem to find more palatable…
 
JRKH said:
By the grace of God and the efforts of the skilled persons at the hospital, Karol was treated and released. She has never been back in the hospeital for behavioral issues since.

Peace
James
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How does a skilled person treat a progressive, incurable neurological disorder, such that the patient was committed to a geriatric ward, treated and then subsequently released, with no behavioral issues since being released?

Are you suggesting that your wifes Alzheimer’s has been cured or the progression of the disease halted?

alzheimer.ca/english/disease/faqs.htm

’Alzheimer’s disease is a progressive, degenerative disease of the brain where brain cells continue to die over time. There is no cure to stop the progression '
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Many an atheist has come to the same end on his deathbed. In the last analysis, the atheist cannot be absolutely certain there is no God. While he is healthy and hearty, he can spit in God’s face all he likes and think he is a god unto himself.

But the angel of death is another matter altogether. 😉
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If this is the case…indeed, it’s quite the dilemma.

As an Atheist lies waiting for death to take them, the stress of choosing the right God in the last few moments of life, of the thousands to choose from, would be stressful to say the least.
 
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