Atlanta Bishop apologizes for building himself lavish home

[punisherthunder]

That is absurd.

Absurd? Please, educate us and tell us why it was justifiable then.

 

[Corki]

Absurd? Please, educate us and tell us why it was justifiable then.

What is absurd is equating the Archbishop’s decision, which he has apologized for with truly excommunicable sins such as heresy or killing the unborn. A bad financial decision is not a grave mortal sin.

 

[MarySB]

I live in the Atlanta Archdiocese, as well. I’ve lived here for six years. The clergy is much more pastoral and compassionate here than in my former parishes/diocese.

I believe AB Gregory has done more than many to demonstrate humility in apologizing and setting up a meeting to sort out what will be done from here.

Please remember, we are all human, make mistakes and, hopefully, grow from them.

That said, depending upon what transpires in the meeting, I may or may not, change the way I contribute my hard-earned $$. There are other institutions to whom I can contribute. Through them, I can make sure that those who are financially needy—through no fault of their own—get their basic food, shelter, medical care, and clothing.

 

[MarySB]

I live in the Atlanta Archdiocese, as well. I’ve lived here for six years. The clergy is much more pastoral and compassionate here than in my former parishes/diocese.

I believe AB Gregory has done more than many to demonstrate humility in apologizing and setting up a meeting to sort out what will be done from here.

Please remember, we are all human, make mistakes and, hopefully, grow from them.

That said, depending upon what transpires in the meeting, I may or may not, change the way I contribute my hard-earned $$. There are other institutions to whom I can contribute. Through them, I can make sure that those who are financially needy—through no fault of their own—get their basic food, shelter, medical care, and clothing.

 

[punisherthunder]

Obviously this thread seems to exist only in a vaccum.

The Bishop was spending all his money and time putting it elsewhere but the Church. Forgiveness, sure. But don’t be so blind to the fact that this behavior was going on for years. The Archbishop in Germany recently had a 43 MILLION DOLLAR home. I suppose I’m being harsh on him too?

Priests don’t have to live like bums, but what these people are doing is reprehensible. If you condone it, then you are just part of the problem.

 

[Corki]

I live in the Atlanta Archdiocese, as well. I’ve lived here for six years. The clergy is much more pastoral and compassionate here than in my former parishes/diocese.

I believe AB Gregory has done more than many to demonstrate humility in apologizing and setting up a meeting to sort out what will be done from here.

Please remember, we are all human, make mistakes and, hopefully, grow from them.

That said, depending upon what transpires in the meeting, I may or may not, change the way I contribute my hard-earned $$. There are other institutions to whom I can contribute. Through them, I can make sure that those who are financially needy—through no fault of their own—get their basic food, shelter, medical care, and clothing.

Maybe this will make you feel better about your Archbishop.

ncregister.com/daily-news/atlanta-archbishop-apologizes-for-2.2-million-residence/

It’s a much more balanced version than the one from the UK.

 

[YoungTradCath]

1. That Archbishop should be knocked down to having the title level of just, priest. Or just excommunicate him.
2. There is ZERO LOGIC in trying to say what he did was right. It was 100% WRONG.
3. As Pope Francis has reiterated, he and other members of the clergy are not “superstars”. They do not need to live these extravagent lifestyles. It sets a bad example for parishoners, the Chruch, and makes us all look weak and dumb to militant atheist media progressives.
4. The vow of poverty ( and probably chastity ) is gone. Satan is in the Church.

Just a few mistakes and infelicities here:

1. You cannot demote someone in Holy Orders. You can laicize him, which means the Church (Pope) takes away permission to act as a priest/bishop/deacon, but a laicized bishop is still a bishop and will be forever. Furthermore, excommunication is a serious matter which is typically only invoked in the gravest of circumstances, like when the soul of the criminal–excommunication is a canonical matter invoked against people convicted of crimes or who simply commit certain crimes even without conviction–is in danger or the criminal is putting the souls of others in danger. I don’t think this is happening here in any sort of direct, provable way, at all. Which is not to say that I disagree with the spirit of what you are saying in this post, by the way.
2. I am not really sure what you’re getting at here. Logic is simply the cogent flow of an argument–ie, “if… then…” sort of thing–and logic is only one aspect of an argument. It’s the framework for right thinking, the scaffold upon which you build, but it is not the substance of an argument. The other aspect of an argument is true premises, which is the meat of the argument (usually), and they’re modulated in some way by the logic. I don’t really see a logical flaw here at all, mostly because I don’t think this is an argument that can be examined with logic because there really isn’t an argument here. You have just put out a list of statements which, while related, do not form an argument. I’m not trying to be overly concerned with semantics here, because 1. I think your statement really doesn’t make sense but 2. it is phrased in such a way that sort of shuts down further conversation on the topic unless we first address your point’s invalidity here because it makes it look as though if someone does write against you, he or she is automatically wrong. Which is not actually true, but your no. 2 makes it look like it. That is, “You can’t possibly be right! I said the opposing point is illogical!”
3. Fair point.
4. Most priests don’t take vows of poverty and chastity. Only religious do that. Secular priests make promises of celibacy and obedience to their bishop/legitimate superior. Furthermore, Canon Law stipulates that clerics should live simply. But simplicity does not equal poverty.

---

To be absolutely clear, it does not really bother me that the Archbishop spent $2 million on his house/entertainment pad. Atlanta is a rapidly growing diocese in all the right ways and there need to be ways of raising money which include, yes, raising money from wealthy Catholic elites (the few there are left lololololololol) and that takes some gravitas.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Jesus got the cross.
The bishop gets a mansion.

 

[MarySB]

Thank you, YoungTradCath.

As a registered parishioner of a Catholic Church in the Atlanta Archdiocese, I received the AB’s entire apology in an email. I did not base my concerns on whatever was reported in the UK.

Our AB is a good man. He tends his flock more responsibly than most. For example, a few weeks ago, all registered Catholics within the Diocese received questionnaires asking for our opinions on what we perceived as strengths and areas needing improvements. I suspect that that is what started the controversy over the “mansion”. It took time to plan and execute its building. None of this came out until the questionnaire came out. Interesting coincidence?

Some of my fellow parishioners and I were discussing the topic, tonight. Something that has never been reported is that the cathedral, built in 1936 on donated land, is in a very exclusive area of Atlanta (Buckhead). I don’t know if it was such an exclusive area in 1936, or not. But, it makes sense to me that the AB should live near the cathedral.

Should the Archdiocese sell the “mansion”? I don’t know, but the AB has been quoted as saying that if that’s what the members want, that’s what will be done.

The jury is still out. I look forward to seeing how it all unfolds. BTW, I think it’s ridiculous to compare our AB who built this building to a bishop who spent $42,000,000 on HIS “mansion”. JMHO.

 

[Corki]

Thank you, YoungTradCath.

As a registered parishioner of a Catholic Church in the Atlanta Archdiocese, I received the AB’s entire apology in an email. I did not base my concerns on whatever was reported in the UK.

Our AB is a good man. He tends his flock more responsibly than most. For example, a few weeks ago, all registered Catholics within the Diocese received questionnaires asking for our opinions on what we perceived as strengths and areas needing improvements. I suspect that that is what started the controversy over the “mansion”. It took time to plan and execute its building. None of this came out until the questionnaire came out. Interesting coincidence?

Some of my fellow parishioners and I were discussing the topic, tonight. Something that has never been reported is that the cathedral, built in 1936 on donated land, is in a very exclusive area of Atlanta (Buckhead). I don’t know if it was such an exclusive area in 1936, or not. **But, it makes sense to me that the AB should live near the cathedral. **

Should the Archdiocese sell the “mansion”? I don’t know, but the AB has been quoted as saying that if that’s what the members want, that’s what will be done.

The jury is still out. I look forward to seeing how it all unfolds. BTW, I think it’s ridiculous to compare our AB who built this building to a bishop who spent $42,000,000 on HIS “mansion”. JMHO.

Just to comment on the bolded. From the article I linked, the Bishop’s current residence was donated to a school (by him). He needs a new residence. Like you said, it needs to be close to the cathedral and other chancery offices. The building in question was a duplicate, in terms of utility, to the one donated to the school. It was a multipurpose building with space for living quarters for the Archbishop, for guests, for entertaining and for offices. It is quite possible that if the diocese needs to get all of those needs met separately, it will ultimately cost more than this single residence. But it might “look” better to have several smaller buildings than a single large one. And that seems to be the driving force - appearances.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Just to comment on the bolded. From the article I linked, the Bishop’s current residence was donated to a school (by him). He needs a new residence. Like you said, it needs to be close to the cathedral and other chancery offices. The building in question was a duplicate, in terms of utility, to the one donated to the school. It was a multipurpose building with space for living quarters for the Archbishop, for guests, for entertaining and for offices. It is quite possible that if the diocese needs to get all of those needs met separately, it will ultimately cost more than this single residence. But it might “look” better to have several smaller buildings than a single large one. And that seems to be the driving force - appearances.

AB Gregory’s new residence is not that close to the cathedral. The reason he left his old house was to allow priests to move in and let them be close to the cathedral. I think the diocese offices are in Smyrna. He is not close to these offices either.

He is close to where professional entertainers, CEO’s, and politicians live. Maybe that’s what he wanted.

I am not buying the rationale that we need extravagant venues to enterntain rich benefactors and attract large donations. Mother Therese probably raised more donations than any bishop ever will, without a mansion and a kitchen big enough to facilitate caterers.

 

[MarySB]

I see most of the posters on this thread are not anywhere near the Archdiocese of Atlanta. So, as a result some are not so well informed. I

I just received The Georgia Bulletin, the newspaper of the Catholic Diocese of Atlanta. There is some information that should help clarify issues. I spent about an hour trying to post it all, but was timed out. So, I guess I need to post it piecemeal.

First, I will provide a breakdown of the budget for the Mitchell family bequest. Then, I will add the advisory committees that recommended the budget.

 

[Pax2u]

The part I find most interesting from the archbishop’s letter is this:

Notice that he admits wrongdoing, yet he’s waiting for the council of priests to rule on the matter.

At my workplace we try to adhere to policies as much as possible. If our boss asks someone, “Did you tell so-and-so customer about such-and-such repair?” and they haven’t, then the employee will respond in one of two ways. 1) “No, I’ll call the customer right now.” 2) “No, should I call the customer?” The former tries to rectify a problem while the latter only admits to the problem. It’s the latter that tend not to stick around as long at my job.

And so with the archbishop it’s telling that his first instinct isn’t to try and get the money back to where it was originally earmarked. Instead he’s waiting and perhaps hoping that he can apologize without giving restitution. It makes one doubt the sincerity of his apology.

This was an interesting thought. I was very disappointed to learn of this whole situation, and he should be very embarrassed…and should definitely be listing this mansion and finding simpler quarters to live in.

 

[MarySB]

Here’s the first part of the Mitchell BEQUEST budget

CATHEDRAL OF CHRIST THE KING—50%
Cathedral Capital/Campaign Building Fund
-AB’s new residence built on DONATED land
-AB’s old residence remodeled for a rectory for the Cathedral’s six priests
-Tearing down the old rectory with the land being used for meeting spaces, multipurpose/
worship for the parish, and/or an improved gymnasium for the parish and
classrooms for the grade school

 

[MarySB]

Here is the rest of the Mitchell BEQUEST budget:

CHARITIES—25%
Catholic Charities Atlanta—general use $1.5 million
Catholic Charities Atlanta—restricted use $2.0 million
Other charities—$250000
Subtotal $3.75 million

ARCHDIOCESAN USE—25%
Disadvantaged Parish Fund $1,000,000
Priests’ Pension Fund $1,000,000
Parish Endowments 100 @$10,000 each $1 million
School Endowments 18 @$10,000 each $180,000
Cristo Rey Atlanta Jesuit School $500,000
Other $70,000
Subtotal $3.75 million

 

[MarySB]

CONSULTATIVE GROUPS WHO HELPED DRAW UP THE BUDGET
-Priests’ Council composed of 30+ priests of the parish. By Canon Law, they represent all of
the priests in the archdiocese
-Archdiocesan Pastoral Council, a multi-cultural group of young, middle-aged, and older
adults, representing small, mid-sized, and large parishes
-Archdiocesan Finance Council composed of some 15 lay people experienced in finance,
civil law, and general business matters as well as six priests.

 

[MarySB]

To me, the bottom line is this:

This money is a BEQUEST.
How much of this came from parishioners’ wallets?
NOTHING, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH.

Who am I to dictate what should be done with a BEQUEST from a very generous and wealthy lay member of the Diocese?

One of the “dictums” I learned from my time in grad school was “Understanding precedes evaluation”.

I now feel I understand, and my evaluation is this: Aren’t we fortunate to have had such a large and generous DONATION? Aren’t we fortunate that we had a group of diversified people that donated their time and talents to help propose a budget to meet the needs of our archdiocese?

I forgot to mention, the total bequest was $15 million.

No more complaints. Not from me, anyway.

 

[Corki]

To me, the bottom line is this:

This money is a BEQUEST.
How much of this came from parishioners’ wallets?
NOTHING, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH.

Who am I to dictate what should be done with a BEQUEST from a very generous and wealthy lay member of the Diocese?

One of the “dictums” I learned from my time in grad school was “Understanding precedes evaluation”.

I now feel I understand, and my evaluation is this: Aren’t we fortunate to have had such a large and generous DONATION? Aren’t we fortunate that we had a group of diversified people that donated their time and talents to help propose a budget to meet the needs of our archdiocese?

No more complaints. Not from me, anyway.

Thank you for taking the time to post all of this.

CONSULTATIVE GROUPS WHO HELPED DRAW UP THE BUDGET
-Priests’ Council composed of 30+ priests of the parish. By Canon Law, they represent all of
the priests in the archdiocese
-Archdiocesan Pastoral Council, a multi-cultural group of young, middle-aged, and older
adults, representing small, mid-sized, and large parishes
-Archdiocesan Finance Council composed of some 15 lay people experienced in finance,
civil law, and general business matters as well as six priests.

And this should silence those who seem to think this was some personal vanity of the Archbishop. It obviously wasn’t.

 

[esieffe]

But, it makes sense to me that the AB should live near the cathedral.

Should the Archdiocese sell the “mansion”? I don’t know, but the AB has been quoted as saying that if that’s what the members want, that’s what will be done.

The jury is still out. I look forward to seeing how it all unfolds. BTW, I think it’s ridiculous to compare our AB who built this building to a bishop who spent $42,000,000 on HIS “mansion”. JMHO.

I couldn’t agree more. There is no comparison.

Seeing how there is nothing within miles Cathedral under 700.000 to a million, I guess they will have to get him something out in the suburbs. It will take him the standard hour and a half Atlanta commute to get to work. .

Yes the mansion may have been a mistake, but it is the cheapest mansion in Buckhead Ive ever heard of. I will admit, I wish I had that problem, right now I am trying to find a 2 bedroom apartment I can afford out in the Atlanta burbs, and I am having NO luck, and time is running out fast.

 

[MarySB]

eiseffe

Where are you looking? Areas north of Atlanta have reasonable rents, right now. Try the areas around Cumming. The commute is horrible, but people do it.

I will pray that you find a place, soon.