Atlas Shrugged, Part 3

[mikekle]

I remember watching the first Atlas movie years ago and found it kind of boring, never saw the second one, but I watched the final one, part 3 earlier tonight. Im still not sure what agenda they are trying to push, seems like a mixture of a few things.

Im also not sure if John Galt and their idea of a super advanced ‘utopia’ where only the most successful, intelligent people are welcome, is good or bad…some of their ideas seem good on the surface, but it seems wrong to just run and hide while the rest of the world goes down the tubes.

Part 3 is what I imagine the time of the anti-christ will be like, Govt acting more like a dictatorship, killing anyone who dares stand against them or get in their way, imposing very strict regulations on society and people, letting certain regions die off if it benefits the larger whole, etc etc.!!

Scary stuff!

Im curious what others think about this movie (any part), did it seem like it was pushing Scientology or something else?

 

[ProVobis]

You may need to read Ayn Rand’s other books for clarification. Fountainhead, Capitalism-An Unknown Ideal, etc. I saw the three parts of Atlas Shrugged and didn’t get much out of them either.

 

[Rhubarb]

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”

 

[GEddie]

I saw only the second part, but I did read the book!

Although some lines in the dialogue are memorable, the sympathy for tycoons who are willing to let everybody go to Hades rather than enjoy slightly less wealth than they think they deserve, is off putting, to say the least.

ICXC NIKA

 

[thecolorsblend]

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”

Somebody should make a Facebook meme out of that.

Oh wait, that’s where you word-for-word took it from.

As to the OP, I guess the message of Atlas Shrugged is that the rich and powerful shouldn’t be “interfered” with and should be allowed to pursue their profit-at-any-cost philosophy, no matter how much damage they do to the environment, how little they pay their employees, how much risk their employees face, etc.

I must’ve left my sympathy in the pocket of my other pants. Profit and success are important. But nothing is more important than people.

 

[philipl]

Somebody should make a Facebook meme out of that.

Oh wait, that’s where you word-for-word took it from.

As to the OP, I guess the message of Atlas Shrugged is that the rich and powerful shouldn’t be “interfered” with and should be allowed to pursue their profit-at-any-cost philosophy, no matter how much damage they do to the environment, how little they pay their employees, how much risk their employees face, etc.

I must’ve left my sympathy in the pocket of my other pants. Profit and success are important. But nothing is more important than people.

I’ll take the Greedy capitalist over the greedy political class, every single time. You see a Greedy Capitalist has to keep being successful to stay greedy. Where as the Greedy political class only has to keep getting reelected. They can be a total failure but as long as they can convince people it someone else fault they are failure, they can get relelcted.

 

[Rhubarb]

Somebody should make a Facebook meme out of that.

Oh wait, that’s where you word-for-word took it from.

That’s the joke. And why it was in quotes.

And speaking of which, it was a quote from John Rogers that I took it word-for-word from. That was then turned into a meme.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Somebody should make a Facebook meme out of that.

Oh wait, that’s where you word-for-word took it from.

As to the OP, I guess the message of Atlas Shrugged is that the rich and powerful shouldn’t be “interfered” with and should be allowed to pursue their profit-at-any-cost philosophy, no matter how much damage they do to the environment, how little they pay their employees, how much risk their employees face, etc.

I must’ve left my sympathy in the pocket of my other pants. Profit and success are important. But nothing is more important than people.

Are they mutually exclusive?

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Somebody should make a Facebook meme out of that.

Oh wait, that’s where you word-for-word took it from.

As to the OP, I guess the message of Atlas Shrugged is that the rich and powerful shouldn’t be “interfered” with and should be allowed to pursue their profit-at-any-cost philosophy, no matter how much damage they do to the environment, how little they pay their employees, how much risk their employees face, etc.

I must’ve left my sympathy in the pocket of my other pants. Profit and success are important. But nothing is more important than people.

Are you speaking of Democrats or Republicans? Because while I don’t believe in the capitalistic altruism of Ayn Rand, all I see in the places where the ideas / policies of the “party that helps the people” is social and economic devastation.

In reality, there is no human salvation for the people, and only when we turn back to God will our situation as a country / world improve.

Thanks for your post.

 

[mikekle]

It is noticeable how much more we are relying on Govt today, and it seems, its always for more and more…people let the Govt impose all this control thru regulations, and thats only going to get worse, Govt LOVES as much control over the people as it can get.

I cannot think of one aspect of daily life, the Govt does not have their paws into (to some degree or another)…awhile ago, it was popular belief we should not let Govt tell our doctors ‘how’ to treat patients, what drugs they can and cannot use, treatments they can and cannot use/ prescribe, etc etc. but increasingly, even this belief is going away, with many people now agreeing Govt should be telling doctors what they can and cannot do…???

Im confused, are they really that good at ‘conditioning/ brainwashing’ the public into believing anything and everything?

 

[Kliska]

Im also not sure if John Galt and their idea of a super advanced ‘utopia’ where only the most successful, intelligent people are welcome, is good or bad…some of their ideas seem good on the surface, but it seems wrong to just run and hide while the rest of the world goes down the tubes.

Ayn’s idea is that society became so corrupt that John Galt felt a moral call to remove his intelligence and his inventions far from that corruption. He set up his Galt’s Gulch to hide from the corruption and invited others to do the same. They were free from Government sanction, taxation, etc… and hence flourished.

Part 3 is what I imagine the time of the anti-christ will be like, Govt acting more like a dictatorship, killing anyone who dares stand against them or get in their way, imposing very strict regulations on society and people, letting certain regions die off if it benefits the larger whole, etc etc.!!

Scary stuff!

Im curious what others think about this movie (any part), did it seem like it was pushing Scientology or something else?

Ayn’s philosophy is labeled Objectivism. It’s interesting, and I agree with some of it, but she mocks the idea of God, altruism, etc… She misses the fact that her philosophy could only work if there is a God who provides true moral framework.

 

[GEddie]

capitalistic altruism of Ayn Rand,

Methinks you need a better term. AR expressly despised altruism, although her characters benefit from the altruism of others at times (i.e., the youth who dies protecting Rearden in the book(.

all I see in the places where the ideas / policies of the “party that helps the people” is social and economic devastation.

And yet Democrats are credited for curing Great Depression I, as well as the best economic years in the current generation (the first Clinton presidency).

Although I believe in capitalism, it does have its limitations and these should be admitted.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Hobbes42]

Anyone want to bring up how Ayn Rand spent her last years? Maybe receiving the public assistance/social insurance from the evil gubmint she despised so much?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I rather enjoyed The Fountainhead, couldn’t put it down. I disagree with a lot of it, and I deeply despise most of the characters, but for some reason I still found it incredibly engaging. Despite enjoying The Fountainhead, I’ve yet to read Atlas Shrugged.

There are aspects of her philosophy that I like, but for the most part, Objectivism is simply a type of nihilistic narcissism, and it’s wide spread adaptation would wound society.

However, I will always thank Ayn Rand for creating the foundation for one of my favorite games ever, Bioshock.

 

[GEddie]

I rather enjoyed The Fountainhead, couldn’t put it down. I disagree with a lot of it, and I deeply despise most of the characters, but for some reason I still found it incredibly engaging. Despite enjoying The Fountainhead, I’ve yet to read Atlas Shrugged.

There are aspects of her philosophy that I like, but for the most part, Objectivism is simply a type of nihilistic narcissism, and it’s wide spread adaptation would wound society.

However, I will always thank Ayn Rand for creating the foundation for one of my favorite games ever, Bioshock.

Heads up. AS is nothing like The Fountainhead.

While Roark in The Fountainhead is, to an extent, an individual triumphing over “the system,” AS is the narrative of how tycoons let the system collapse in order to replace it with their own. It is rather depressing.

ICXC NIKA

 

[styrgwillidar]

Heads up. AS is nothing like The Fountainhead.

While Roark in The Fountainhead is, to an extent, an individual triumphing over “the system,” AS is the narrative of how tycoons let the system collapse in order to replace it with their own. It is rather depressing.

ICXC NIKA

Actually, its an extrapolation of what occurred in the Soviet Union to the US in terms of those in power engaging in cronyism to the extent that good ideas were crushed if they came from ‘the wrong people’ or from folks who refused to engage in cronyism themselves. The whole Galt’s Gulch thing was a fantasy, but Rand was pointing out that in every socialist system, those who produce eventually get tired of the load as they see others shirking their responsibilities.

Haven’t seen the movies, but the book was very interesting and I see a lot of parallels to what is happening in the US. In addition to the cronyism, and the union influence- the virtue signaling of folks who criticize everyone, find offense at everything, and believe they should be able to tell everyone else how to live, what they can enjoy etc.

Reminds me of Heinlein:
“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck.”

Oh, the other thing the SOPO (Society of the Perpetually Offended) industry reminds me of is the conversation between the two firemen in Fahrenheit 451 as they’re burning books.
Where the senior fireman explains that the books are being burned because people are made uncomfortable by the ideas in the books, and would prefer not to be confronted with and have to address them.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Oh, the other thing the SOPO (Society of the Perpetually Offended) industry reminds me of is the conversation between the two firemen in Fahrenheit 451 as they’re burning books.
Where the senior fireman explains that the books are being burned because people are made uncomfortable by the ideas in the books, and would prefer not to be confronted with and have to address them.

It’s crazy how the societies in these books, the very societies the books were created to warn us against, seem to be what we’re becoming. I don’t know if running people down in the streets will ever become sport, but you’re correct that that conversation is incredibly poignant today. Rod Serling’s “The Obsolete Man,” an episode of the Twilight Zone, also seems to reflect the shift our society is undergoing now, or at least it’s potential end.

 

[ProVobis]

Anyone want to bring up how Ayn Rand spent her last years? Maybe receiving the public assistance/social insurance from the evil gubmint she despised so much?

Good point.

Also Alan Greenspan, a staunch Ayn Rand follower, until he was appointed Fed Chair. (Ayn Rand had called repeatedly to abolish the Federal Reserve.)

 

[mikekle]

It’s crazy how the societies in these books, the very societies the books were created to warn us against, seem to be what we’re becoming. I don’t know if running people down in the streets will ever become sport, but you’re correct that that conversation is incredibly poignant today. Rod Serling’s “The Obsolete Man,” an episode of the Twilight Zone, also seems to reflect the shift our society is undergoing now, or at least it’s potential end.

You are exactly right, Ive noticed so many more people today willing to take the Govts side on things instead of their fellow citizen, kind of scary to think that many people can really be ‘conditioned’ to believe the Govt has their best interest at heart!

 

[styrgwillidar]

You are exactly right, Ive noticed so many more people today willing to take the Govts side on things instead of their fellow citizen, kind of scary to think that many people can really be ‘conditioned’ to believe the Govt has their best interest at heart!

Well, in the US we believe the government is the people themselves. I think almost everyone’s motivation is a sincere desire to improve things. Most folks in the government are just doing a specific job and not part of some vast conspiracy. Problem like any bureaucracy is so many rules keep getting imposed (corollary to ‘The Peter Principle’) that get in the way of getting the actual work done. Like the VA, I don’t think anyone wants the system to fail or veterans to be without medical care. Just over the years it becomes a bloated mess of regulation piling on more and more administrative jobs and providing often conflicting direction the folks at the actual point where services are provided.