Attend Baby Shower or Not?

[Angelstar]

Adoption as bad as abortion? Good grief. Dismembering and slaughtering the child is equated the same as placing it in a loving family?

As an adopted, now adult child you realize blood has very little to do with loving families. I think people who don’t experience adoption can’t really understand that. I value family very highly as well and just because my parents (sister, aunts, uncles, cousins etc) don’t share my genes doesn’t make them any less family to me than yours is to you.

Now I do not think someone outside the family should be discussing such a personal decision, and I absolutely do not endorse pressuring mothers into placing their child for adoption if the don’t want to. This is a decision the biological parents must make.

Excuse me, but I was stating my PERSONAL position on adoption for ME. Not for everyone else. Adoption may be an excellent decision for other people and an even more wonderful decision for the parents blessed enough to become the child’s adoptive parents. For me PERSONALLY I could never in a million years even dream of giving up one of my babies to adoption, even if I were horribly raped… that child would still be mine and however difficult to get past the trauma I’d do all that I could to heal AND keep that child. Like I said its just me. The reason I equate the two (FOR MY OWN PERSONAL POSITION ON THE MATTER) is because I would feel the same level of loss… to not raise my own child who I conceived (even by horrible traumatic event) and gave birth to, I would feel as if that child died.

 

[rayne89]

Excuse me, but I was stating my PERSONAL position on adoption for ME. Not for everyone else. Adoption may be an excellent decision for other people and an even more wonderful decision for the parents blessed enough to become the child’s adoptive parents. For me PERSONALLY I could never in a million years even dream of giving up one of my babies to adoption, even if I were horribly raped… that child would still be mine and however difficult to get past the trauma I’d do all that I could to heal AND keep that child. Like I said its just me. The reason I equate the two (FOR MY OWN PERSONAL POSITION ON THE MATTER) is because I would feel the same level of loss… to not raise my own child who I conceived (even by horrible traumatic event) and gave birth to, I would feel as if that child died.

Fine. You’ll have to excuse my personal position on the matter as an adopted child that I find it offensive that someone would equate what my biological mother did by placing me in a two parent family who loved and raised me as the same as abortion.

 

[SourGrape]

I don’t know why people assume that you are punishing or judging the mom if you disapprove of baby showers for unwed moms. I think that society and more importantly childen suffer in single parent homes. I’ve watched my nephew (my sister’s son) and my brother’s three children grow up in these situations. And, our society’s acceptance of single motherhood has contributed to more unwed births. There’s all kind of data that links poverty, crime, and unstable relationships to single parenthood.

And, yes, I’m very happy that the mom has chosen life. I just think that it would have been better if the mom had waited until marriage. It’s a tragedy for everyone involved that the child doesn’t have the benefit of the graces given in holy matrimony for mom and dad. I don’t think that not having baby showers for unwed moms will increase the rate of abortions.

I agree with this post, although I must admit, I have attended a shower for an unwed mother (a cousin). I was torn about attending, though, for similar reasons as the OP. I whole heartedly believe we should do our best to support the mother and her baby by helping out with clothes, etc. but I do think we need to witness to the fact that having a baby out of wedlock is not a moral good. Seriously, in this day and age, more and more children are being born out of wedlock and it’s becoming acceptable and the norm to do so, which scares me: it’s as if people don’t realize it’s a sin to have premarital sex anymore. Same goes with having a bridal shower for someone who has been living with her future husband for months or even years. While I’m happy they are finally marrying each other, I’m annoyed that it’s becoming more acceptable for couples to live together first and even have one or two kids together first before marrying! The usual reply of my older relatives: “This is the new generation. Marriage and vows are irrelevant nowadays.” Very sad…

 

[Angelstar]

Fine. You’ll have to excuse my personal position on the matter as an adopted child that I find it offensive that someone would equate what my biological mother did by placing me in a two parent family who loved and raised me as the same as abortion.

I’m not criticizing your biological mother’s decision or anyone else who chooses that for themselves and their baby. Like I said, it is my own PERSONAL position on the matter. That means I, personally, could not do it… it simply is against the way my own mind works. For other people who decide that it’s the right thing for them and their baby, well… all the more power to them! I commend them for it (commend NOT condemn). I thought I made it pretty clear that I’m not against adoption, in general… I’m just making the point that it isn’t something that would ever be an option for me. I think your bias may be getting in the way of your understanding me correctly and causing you to jump straight into being offended because of that misunderstanding.

 

[BiologyBrain]

I’ve actually been through this myself as a child/teen, so maybe I can give a child’s perspective on it.

My aunt (mom’s sister) lived w/ her boyfriend prior to getting married. They had a baby prior to their wedding. They’re both Catholic (and were at the time as well). I was 15, so not entirely a child, but definitely at an impressionable age. My mom is the oldest of 6 children. She was torn between attending the baby shower (not to mention the bridal shower) b/c of the immorality that it represented (obviously there can’t be a baby morally prior to marriage). She was also concerned about what her kids (my older brother was 18, I was 15, and my little brother was 7) would think about pre-marital sex, out-of-wedlock children, living together, etc. My mom went & brought me as well. If I remember correctly, one of us children (probably me or my little brother) actually asked her why they weren’t married yet, but had a baby together. Of course that was kind of rough, so my mom spoke to all three of us (separately) about the morality and the need for support for the family. We then attended the shower (actually even the bridal shower). We were supportive, but I’m pretty sure my mom had a talk w/ her sister (their mom has been dead for a while) about the influence, but emphasized that she (my mom) wanted to be supportive.

Obviously, you can’t have a talk w/ a friend of a friend’s daughter or even a friend’s daughter. However, you can and should have an explanatory discussion with your children on the morality and the support necessary for unwed mothers. That IMO is the best way to be unequivocally pro-life and pro-morality.

 

[dominicandinah]

Excuse me, but I was stating my PERSONAL position on adoption for ME. Not for everyone else. Adoption may be an excellent decision for other people and an even more wonderful decision for the parents blessed enough to become the child’s adoptive parents. For me PERSONALLY I could never in a million years even dream of giving up one of my babies to adoption, even if I were horribly raped… that child would still be mine and however difficult to get past the trauma I’d do all that I could to heal AND keep that child. Like I said its just me. The reason I equate the two (FOR MY OWN PERSONAL POSITION ON THE MATTER) is because I would feel the same level of loss… to not raise my own child who I conceived (even by horrible traumatic event) and gave birth to, I would feel as if that child died.

No matter how nicely you’ve tried to defend your position, it is very offensive to anyone who is adopted or placed a child for adoption. Please think long and hard before putting something like that on here. That may be your personal opinon, but it’s one that should have remained unsaid. Your comment has caused quite a bit of hurt feelings .

 

[sanctamaria17]

Well, I guess the Christian, NFP-teaching, abstinence-education CPC I volunteer at is supporting sin when they allow us to have baby showers them. Most of the women are unmarried…

Showers are to provide for a mom and baby’s needs and to celebrate new life. If we are pro-life, we better celebrate that baby. He or she is just as much a gift from God as any baby conceived in valid/sacramental marriage. I’m pretty sure that if this lady is your best friend, she knows your stance on pre-marital sex. Going to a shower doesn’t imply support for her sexual decisions. It implies support for her and her child…

As for “support” of single motherhood, I find that more with the groups that support pre-marital sex and other choices. I don’t find that among Christian, pro-life circles, who instead provide support to women and children, while emphasizing the need to be chaste and doing what they can to make sure the baby’s daddy is involved. Also, women become single moms when pregnant by circumstances well outside of their control. I know several friends whose fathers have passed away or whose fathers walked out on their moms…and yes, we all make mistakes too…That doesn’t mean a child should have to suffer because they don’t come from an ideal circumstance…

 

[VivienneJ]

Also, I do not believe I would be teaching my own daughters good values by attending an unwed baby shower, right?

Bjj, I’m coming into this rather late, busy time of year, but it was your last sentence that struck me.

When my daughters were pre-teens the daughter of friends of ours rented the cottage on our property. This young girl had messed up big time, as the expression goes. Excellent qualification as a secretary, with a top job lined up, she fell pregnant by a married man, had the baby (ironically a few months after the birth of my first child); later married a guy with a substance abuse problem; she became the financial supporter of the family: son and two daughters. I didn’t want to go into too many of the negatives of her life with my young daughers, until the day my elder one passed some comment on the mothering she observed compared to mine (and this young girl was doing a good job raising her children, so it wasn’t criticism). That gave me the opportunity to talk to them about the consequences of teen pregnancies, illicit relationships, substance abuse; it also gave me the chance to assure them that, like my friends, I would love them if something similar happened, but I hoped they would do things in the proper order. Through their growing up years, when kids at school fell pregnant, or there were substance abuse cases, they would say something like “Shame, its just like -----'s case”.

I hope I haven’t offended any single moms out there, or those who know single moms, but I truly believe that this one case helped my daughters to see what is very difficult to explain fully.

 

[Angelstar]

No matter how nicely you’ve tried to defend your position, it is very offensive to anyone who is adopted or placed a child for adoption. Please think long and hard before putting something like that on here. That may be your personal opinon, but it’s one that should have remained unsaid. Your comment has caused quite a bit of hurt feelings .

Well then, be offended. Be very offended, for all I care! Go ahead, darlin’! Understand what I said whatever way you want to.

Have a nice day!

 

[sanctamaria17]

Wow…lack of charity much?

I would think giving a baby to a loving family would be much different than having them ripped to shreds in a suction machine…

No one is advocating forced adoption, but that it should be considered a viable option…

The difference between adoption and abortion is that the baby is ALIVE…I guess my aunt shouldn’t have adopted my Chinese cousin…My cousin should have been treated like a second class citizen because she’s a girl and an orphan instead of being brought to the U.S., raised by a loving mother and father (father unfortunately passed, may he RIP), brought to the Church, and given all sorts of educational opportunities she would not have otherwise had, had she remained in a Chinese orphanage…I, for one, am glad my spunky cousin, who just made her First Holy Communion, WAS adopted, instead of aborted, like so many Chinese baby girls…

Yes, there can be trauma and no one is saying this is an easy decision. But to equate placing a child with a different family with MURDER…That’s a pretty hefty statement…

 

[Catholic90]

Well then, be offended. Be very offended, for all I care! Go ahead, darlin’! Understand what I said whatever way you want to.

Have a nice day!

You need to take a big step back and THINK about what and how you say things. You come bouncing onto these forums, insult both adoptive parents AND women who have had to struggle with reproductive issues, and then respond like you did?!?!? Where is your charity, your compassion?

You stated that giving up a child for adoption is as bad as adoption…Hmmmmm, in one the child is very dead. In the other, the child has a chance at LIFE, an adoptive family can be made whole with a baby, and the birth mom can make something very good come from a trying time in her life! Very different…Now that is not to say it is easy for the birth mom to give up her baby, but sometimes it is the best situation for everyone involved. Try having a little compassion next time before you speak.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

You need to take a big step back and THINK about what and how you say things. You come bouncing onto these forums, insult both adoptive parents AND women who have had to struggle with reproductive issues, and then respond like you did?!?!? Where is your charity, your compassion?

You stated that giving up a child for adoption is as bad as adoption…Hmmmmm, in one the child is very dead. In the other, the child has a chance at LIFE, an adoptive family can be made whole with a baby, and the birth mom can make something very good come from a trying time in her life! Very different…Now that is not to say it is easy for the birth mom to give up her baby, but sometimes it is the best situation for everyone involved. Try having a little compassion next time before you speak.

That’s completey over the top. She made it very clear in her first post in your argument that “for her adoption would be as bad as abortion.” IF she were pregnant the idea of giving her baby away would be as traumatizing to her as aborting it. She said in that post it was “fine for a select few.”

You are just bludgeoning her with an emotional rant based on your interpretation of what she said, which is not what she meant.

 

[Catholic90]

Well then, be offended. Be very offended, for all I care! Go ahead, darlin’! Understand what I said whatever way you want to.

Have a nice day!

That’s completey over the top. She made it very clear in her first post in your argument that “for her adoption would be as bad as abortion.” IF she were pregnant the idea of giving her baby away would be as traumatizing to her as aborting it. She said in that post it was “fine for a select few.”

You are just bludgeoning her with an emotional rant based on your interpretation of what she said, which is not what she meant.

There are NICE ways of saying things and not so nice ways, especially about a very sensitive topic for many.
What is wrong with being nice? If she can’t be nice, she shouldn’t say anything.

 

[Angelstar]

That’s completey over the top. She made it very clear in her first post in your argument that “for her adoption would be as bad as abortion.” IF she were pregnant the idea of giving her baby away would be as traumatizing to her as aborting it. She said in that post it was “fine for a select few.”

You are just bludgeoning her with an emotional rant based on your interpretation of what she said, which is not what she meant.

Thank you.

I find it funny that I’m being stoned to death (so to speak) when these people don’t even know my own life history. They don’t know if I was adopted or if one my parents were adopted, how many friends or family members I’ve had who were adopted, how many people I’ve known who gave their child up for adoption or if I plan to adopt in the future… basically they don’t know how close to the topic of adoption I may be or if adoption has even touched my life in the slightest of ways. I stated my own personal feelings regarding the question of finding myself in a sticky situation and facing that as a possibility, that is all.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

There are NICE ways of saying things and not so nice ways, especially about a very sensitive topic for many.
What is wrong with being nice? If she can’t be nice, she shouldn’t say anything.

Based on my reading of your argument with Angelstar, I think the person who needs to “be nice” here is you.

You seem to be attacking her on the basis of a very twisted interpretation of what she actually said. I seriously doubt there are any rational, pro-life people who hold the belief that it is better to kill a child than to give a child to a loving adoptive family. Angelstar certainly never said that. She just said she could not do either.

 

[dominicandinah]

Thank you.

I find it funny that I’m being stoned to death (so to speak) when these people don’t even know my own life history. They don’t know if I was adopted or if one my parents were adopted, how many friends or family members I’ve had who were adopted, how many people I’ve known who gave their child up for adoption or if I plan to adopt in the future… basically they don’t know how close to the topic of adoption I may be or if adoption has even touched my life in the slightest of ways. I stated my own personal feelings regarding the question of finding myself in a sticky situation and facing that as a possibility, that is all.

As previoulsy stated, there are some things that should remain unsaid. Your personal opinion on adoption is one of them!

Have yourself a nice day,as well, “darlin”!

 

[Angelstar]

On the other side, let me just make it very clear to those who took what I said out of context.

I in NO WAY advocate abortion over adoption!

NO WHERE DID I SAY THAT ABORTION IS BETTER THAN ADOPTION!

I was relating that, for me, they both would hold the same traumatic feeling of loss.

Let’s put it this way if we must: Putting up my own child for adoption would be the same, for me, as if I had lost that child in birth. Does that somehow offend less? Previously, I had made the comparison (for my own hypothetical situation, NOT for everyone’s situation) that giving up my (I will emphasize, MY) unwanted/inconvenient baby to adoption would impact me the same as if I had given up my (I emphasize again, MY) unwanted/inconvenient baby to abortion. I made the comparison because both involves the baby being unwanted by or inconvenient to its biological mother (that would be me). Additionally, losing the baby spontaneously in a miscarriage or still birth would be an act of God, not the mother’s choice and unfortunately more often happens to those who want and are not inconvenienced by the baby (of course if I had said anything about losing the baby in birth I’d probably get my head lobbed off by other people who would be offended by that… you just can’t please everybody). Now to clarify even more, if I may, I make the comparison (for my own hypothetical situation, NOT for everyone’s situation) precisely because abortion is such a grievous and traumatic act (for this I am reffering to its effect on the mother… who would be me, hypothetically) and how putting up my own child for adoption would effect me in the same way. To clarify EVEN FURTHER… non of this has anything to do with my opinion of those who do give their children up for adoption. For those people, I can understand being in a spot in life where it just isn’t going to work and to have to make that painful (as I imagine it would be) decision. I commend them for giving their children better opportunity and for allowing a family to take them in as their own.

As for saying things in a “nice” way… I am not a bleeding heart liberal, I do not speak “politically correct”, I do consider what I say before I say it but after that, if people want to misinterpret what I say and take it out of context then that is their business and they’ll just have to deal with hearing what they want to hear.

 

[violeta7]

I say…I come to this site for loving support, what’s wrong with you guys?

 

[Zelie_Louis]

Due to the appalling lack of charity on this thread, it is now closed.

Be kind to one another.