Attending a Tridentine Mass for the first time

[Brandon_Cal]

Ah so that is e big difference, the low mass is more or less quiet with just the kneeling, sitting, standing and priest position on the altar differentiating what is going on from a congregation POV?

Looking at your fellow congregants won’t help much since you spend the vast majority of the Low Mass kneeling. You kneel from the very beginning of the Mass until the Gospel. You stand for the Gospel and Creed, then kneel all the way until the offertory (at which point you sit). You commence kneeling at the Agnus Dei (not after it, but before it), and then remain kneeling for the rest of the Mass (save for getting up to actually receive communion). Your only hope is to gauge where the priest is relative to the altar and what he’s doing (is he on the Gospel side or the Epistle side? Are his index finger and thumb held together or not? Did he mumble something semi-audibly “nobis quoque peccatoribus”]?) and hope that you’re sitting close enough to pick up on what seems like a private conversation between the priest and the altar server.

If this is your very first time to the EF I’d highly recommend waiting until you can assist at a Missa Cantata or Missa Solemnis. Otherwise try to take a seat as close as possible as to hear what little you can, while leaving a parishioner or two in front of you so that you can mimic their gestures as they perform them if “being out of step” is something that bothers you. Ironically enough I’ve noticed that the parishioners at Ordinary Form Masses are far more uniform in their liturgical gestures than those who assist at the EF, the protestations of particular “rad trads” notwithstanding.

You shouldn’t be worried about standing at the wrong time, or failing to stand, etc. I’ve seen piety run the gamut at the EF from those who are crossing themselves every couple minutes, to those who stand as soon as Father stands from his chair to those who wait until he says “Dominus Vobiscum”. It gets even more diversified at a Missa Cantata or Missa Solemnis. Since the choir is not in sync with the part of the Mass the priest is currently at you have about half of the laity making gestured responses to the priest (usually those close enough to actually see/hear what he’s doing/saying) while the other half gesture in response to the choir. Some hedge their bets and respond to both! Point is, there are no rubrics for the laity at the EF so you don’t really need to worry about making any faux pas.

 

[babochka]

You shouldn’t be worried about standing at the wrong time, or failing to stand, etc. I’ve seen piety run the gamut at the EF from those who are crossing themselves every couple minutes, to those who stand as soon as Father stands from his chair to those who wait until he says “Dominus Vobiscum”. It gets even more diversified at a Missa Cantata or Missa Solemnis. Since the choir is not in sync with the part of the Mass the priest is currently at you have about half of the laity making gestured responses to the priest (usually those close enough to actually see/hear what he’s doing/saying) while the other half gesture in response to the choir. Some hedge their bets and respond to both! Point is, there are no rubrics for the laity at the EF so you don’t really need to worry about making any faux pas.

Not to derail the thread, but thank you for this answer! I’ve attended a Latin Mass a handful of times, and had a very difficult time following along, even with a missal. I tried to look at the pictures to see where the priest was in the Mass and listen to what the choir was singing, but it didn’t seem to match up at all. I tried to watch what a couple of families I knew - regular attendees- were doing, and found myself even more confused. They were doing different things! This helps all that confusion fall into place.

 

[Padres1969]

Looking at your fellow congregants won’t help much since you spend the vast majority of the Low Mass kneeling. You kneel from the very beginning of the Mass until the Gospel. You stand for the Gospel and Creed, then kneel all the way until the offertory (at which point you sit). You commence kneeling at the Agnus Dei (not after it, but before it), and then remain kneeling for the rest of the Mass (save for getting up to actually receive communion). Your only hope is to gauge where the priest is relative to the altar and what he’s doing (is he on the Gospel side or the Epistle side? Are his index finger and thumb held together or not? Did he mumble something semi-audibly “nobis quoque peccatoribus”]?) and hope that you’re sitting close enough to pick up on what seems like a private conversation between the priest and the altar server.

If this is your very first time to the EF I’d highly recommend waiting until you can assist at a Missa Cantata or Missa Solemnis. Otherwise try to take a seat as close as possible as to hear what little you can, while leaving a parishioner or two in front of you so that you can mimic their gestures as they perform them if “being out of step” is something that bothers you. Ironically enough I’ve noticed that the parishioners at Ordinary Form Masses are far more uniform in their liturgical gestures than those who assist at the EF, the protestations of particular “rad trads” notwithstanding.

You shouldn’t be worried about standing at the wrong time, or failing to stand, etc. I’ve seen piety run the gamut at the EF from those who are crossing themselves every couple minutes, to those who stand as soon as Father stands from his chair to those who wait until he says “Dominus Vobiscum”. It gets even more diversified at a Missa Cantata or Missa Solemnis. Since the choir is not in sync with the part of the Mass the priest is currently at you have about half of the laity making gestured responses to the priest (usually those close enough to actually see/hear what he’s doing/saying) while the other half gesture in response to the choir. Some hedge their bets and respond to both! Point is, there are no rubrics for the laity at the EF so you don’t really need to worry about making any faux pas.

Thank you for the insight. I might report back after the mass tomorrow to let you know how I get on.

 

[Padres1969]

Ok yeah the Missa Lecta may not have been the best choice for first in person Tridentine Mass. I freely admit I was lost during most of it even sitting relatively close. I mean it was definitely an experience I am glad I had, but it was very different than anything else I’ve been to Protestant, Catholic, or otherwise as well. Far more of a spectator experience for lack of a better term than anything I’ve been a part of previously. Particularly with even the readings/gospel having been in Latin.

That said it was beautiful even if I had little clue what was going on half the time And it was interesting at the very least to pick out the bits of latin I did understand to at least somewhat frame what was happening.

 

[Elizium23]

It can be really remarkable for someone who is used to the continuum of solemnity and the multitude of options in an Ordinary Form liturgy to experience the Extraordinary Form, because of the night/day differences between Missa Lecta and Missa Cantata/Solemnis, as well as the otherwise rigid uniformity that allows you to know exactly what to expect no matter when or where you attend Mass in the EF.

I find that a Low Mass draws me deeply into contemplation and allows me to rest in the Lord. The faithful are not really expected to “do anything” in the way of responses, and though I have my nose in a Missal most of the time, I expect with more experience to be able to just soak in it.

A High Mass, on the other hand, is extremely uplifting and I find my spirits soaring. Actually it is very interesting, because the only two High Masses I have attended in person are both Requiems for All Souls Day, so my spirits were soaring very somberly, but it was exciting to hear the Dies Irae as the Church intended. It is so sad to me that this and other parts of liturgy were just summarily abolished, or relegated to a disused janitor’s closet.

I still have found nothing, and never expect to find anything, to excel above a well-executed Byzantine Rite Divine Liturgy. Every Catholic and every Protestant should know the grand heritage and patrimony of the Eastern Churches, and the Byzantine Rite is the sine qua non of liturgy done right. There is, however, no equivalent to Low Mass for the Byzantines. So in the end, every Rite has its own treasures and uniqueness that makes the Tapestry of Catholicism so much richer.

 

[porthos11]

I still have found nothing, and never expect to find anything, to excel above a well-executed Byzantine Rite Divine Liturgy. Every Catholic and every Protestant should know the grand heritage and patrimony of the Eastern Churches, and the Byzantine Rite is the sine qua non of liturgy done right. There is, however, no equivalent to Low Mass for the Byzantines. So in the end, every Rite has its own treasures and uniqueness that makes the Tapestry of Catholicism so much richer.

I sometimes chuckle when some Catholics enthusiastically call the Roman EF the “most beautiful thing this side of heaven”; I automatically assume they’ve never been to a Byzantine liturgy with all the smells and bells. Even though I’m a Roman Rite Catholic, I think the Byzantines beat us in sheer aesthetics and ceremony and can better claim to be the “most beautiful thing this side of heaven.”

(Yet, of course, the simplicity of the Roman Rite appeals to me, especially in the Divine Office, which I would never substitute for a Byzantine horologion).

The majesty of the Byzantine Rite is the reason Russia and Ukraine are Byzantine.

 

[ProVobis]

The majesty of the Byzantine Rite is the reason Russia and Ukraine are Byzantine.

And that is probably why the US and other Western countries are not.

 

[commenter]

Just a reminder, as some people on the thread used the term “Novus Ordo”. Actually the Mass most commonly used at present in the Roman or Latin Rite is the “Ordinary Form”. This is usually said in the vernacular, but can be said in Latin. The English translation was updated a few years ago, much more God-centered, less mundane or wishy-washy now, in my opinion.

The thread has correctly identified the “Extraordinary Form” which would be said in Latin, but according to the Pre Vatican II format. Of course, the eastern Catholic Churches have their own liturgical rites.

 

[landon13]

I still remember my first latin mass. I just went in a polo and dress slacks. Took my missal along with me, which was surprisingly easy to follow along with, and I also sat closer to the middle or middle front of the church. No worries at all in being able to follow along, especially if you know what to expect from studying the missal or watching videos of it online. It’s not that difficult and really beautiful because it gives you a lot of time to think and contemplate and prayer regarding the mystery happening before your eyes. Enjoy the experience.

God bless

 

[Padres1969]

I sometimes chuckle when some Catholics enthusiastically call the Roman EF the “most beautiful thing this side of heaven”; I automatically assume they’ve never been to a Byzantine liturgy with all the smells and bells. Even though I’m a Roman Rite Catholic, I think the Byzantines beat us in sheer aesthetics and ceremony and can better claim to be the “most beautiful thing this side of heaven.”

(Yet, of course, the simplicity of the Roman Rite appeals to me, especially in the Divine Office, which I would never substitute for a Byzantine horologion).

The majesty of the Byzantine Rite is the reason Russia and Ukraine are Byzantine.

Yeah a Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Rite is next on my list I think either Orthdox or Catholic. I’m somewhat familiar with it and what I have seen of it is nothing less than stunning.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Just a reminder, as some people on the thread used the term “Novus Ordo”. Actually the Mass most commonly used at present in the Roman or Latin Rite is the “Ordinary Form”. This is usually said in the vernacular, but can be said in Latin. The English translation was updated a few years ago, much more God-centered, less mundane or wishy-washy now, in my opinion.

The thread has correctly identified the “Extraordinary Form” which would be said in Latin, but according to the Pre Vatican II format. Of course, the eastern Catholic Churches have their own liturgical rites.

There are a number of descriptive terms, in both Latin and the vernacular, for each; they are synonymous. The vernacular terms I tend to choose depends upon which vernacular I am employing, personally. When I taught this subject, I generally gauged which vocabulary the students seemed most inclined to use and then used the other language in order to better expose them to the diversity of terms and to allow me the variety.

 

[ProVobis]

Just a reminder, as some people on the thread used the term “Novus Ordo”. Actually the Mass most commonly used at present in the Roman or Latin Rite is the “Ordinary Form”.

FWIW, those red booklets that are used at the EF now translate Ordo as “Ordinary” as in “Ordinary of the Mass.” That doesn’t sound derogatory to me. That in fact was on the 1969 document which promulgated the current “ordinary of the Mass.” It’s not the same thing as that which is printed on the US $1 bill. Ordo Missae and Ordo Seclorum are two different things.

 

[smead2942]

Just a reminder, as some people on the thread used the term “Novus Ordo”. Actually the Mass most commonly used at present in the Roman or Latin Rite is the “Ordinary Form”. This is usually said in the vernacular, but can be said in Latin. The English translation was updated a few years ago, much more God-centered, less mundane or wishy-washy now, in my opinion.

The thread has correctly identified the “Extraordinary Form” which would be said in Latin, but according to the Pre Vatican II format. Of course, the eastern Catholic Churches have their own liturgical rites.

“Novus Ordo Missae” or “New Order of the Mass” is not an incorrect term. At 45 years old, the “Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite” is still extremely new. It’s been around for literally 2.3% of the Church’s lifespan. And it is an abridged version of the Tridentine liturgy and theologically different. The 2011 (?) changes were certainly an improvement though, and I hope that such changes continue under Cardinal Sarah’s (future Pope Pius XIII, anyone) guidance.

 

[Elizium23]

FWIW, those red booklets that are used at the EF now translate Ordo as “Ordinary” as in “Ordinary of the Mass.” That doesn’t sound derogatory to me. That in fact was on the 1969 document which promulgated the current “ordinary of the Mass.” It’s not the same thing as that which is printed on the US $1 bill. Ordo Missae and Ordo Seclorum are two different things.

The Order of Mass is an outline of all its parts, while the Ordinary of Mass is composed of the unchanging parts such as Kyrie, Gloria, Agnus Dei.

An EF (or OF) handmissal might provide just the Ordinary parts as a matter of convenience, but I don’t think it is right to translate “[Novus] Ordo Missae” into “Ordinary” rather than “Order”.

 

[LightBound]

“Novus Ordo Missae” or “New Order of the Mass” is not an incorrect term. At 45 years old, the “Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite” is still extremely new. It’s been around for literally 2.3% of the Church’s lifespan. And it is an abridged version of the Tridentine liturgy and theologically different. The 2011 (?) changes were certainly an improvement though, and I hope that such changes continue under Cardinal Sarah’s (future Pope Pius XIII, anyone) guidance.

Incorrect? Condescending and often used in a derogatory manner to denigrate the Mass in Ordinary Form? Yes.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11478809&postcount=47

 

[commenter]

“Novus Ordo Missae” or “New Order of the Mass” is not an incorrect term. At 45 years old, the “Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite” is still extremely new. It’s been around for literally 2.3% of the Church’s lifespan. And it is an abridged version of the Tridentine liturgy and theologically different. The 2011 (?) changes were certainly an improvement though, and I hope that such changes continue under Cardinal Sarah’s (future Pope Pius XIII, anyone) guidance.

The “Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite” is the current term, thus, the most accurate. I didn’t say Novus Ordo is inaccurate, just less accurate. I don’t think the posters on this thread used “Novus Ordo” in a disparaging way. But those other people, those who do want to disparage the current “Ordinary Form”, always call it by that term Novus Ordo.

Just an observation.

 

[ProVobis]

The 2011 (?) changes were certainly an improvement though,

For the record, only the English translation (and the vernaculars based on English) were changed in 2011. The changes since the 1970 Latin typico editio was promulgated have been minimal. For those attending a Spanish Mass the only change they may have heard was muchos in the consecration, though I understand this has not been fully implemented yet.

 

[1crazybusydad]

This is usually said in the vernacular, but can be said in Latin.

While true, it is more accurately said that the Ordinary Form of the Mass is in Latin, but is typically said in the local vernacular, as permitted by the Church with an approved translation.

 

[ProVobis]

The Order of Mass is an outline of all its parts, while the Ordinary of Mass is composed of the unchanging parts such as Kyrie, Gloria, Agnus Dei.

An EF (or OF) handmissal might provide just the Ordinary parts as a matter of convenience, but I don’t think it is right to translate “[Novus] Ordo Missae” into “Ordinary” rather than “Order”.

Okay, okay, but I guess it doesn’t take too long to disparage some rite or form around here. I’m out.

 

[tradcathconvert]

I think this will depend on your familiarity with the Tridentine liturgy in general. My first Tridentine Mass was a Low Mass, and I happened upon it accidentally. I had done zero reading prior to attending. I got lost within minutes despite trying to follow along with those small red missalettes some parishes provide, and I remained confused all the way until the end. My second EF Mass was a Missa Cantata (a sort of hybridized low and high liturgy) and it was much easier to follow along.

The Low Mass has since grown on me, and now that I’m more familiar with the Extraordinary Form generally speaking it’s not difficult to follow along. If I get lost all I have to do is look up at the priest to see which part of the altar he’s facing, what his body is doing, and where the server is at and I can gauge where in the Ordo we are. Without knowing these subtle little differences it’s quite easy to have no idea what the heck is going on. As I mentioned in my previous post, the Low Mass has nearly zero external cues to give you a hint as to where you are in the Ordo. A bell is rung at the beginning, at the end, and when the priest elevates the Eucharistic species. Otherwise, there’s no singing, no chanting, no music, no other bells, no incensing, and the priest nearly whispers the Mass. I very much disagree with the poster who said you should take a seat near the back.

Maybe I am missing something in what you said, but the bell should be run 3 times at the Sanctus and one bell for each Domine non sum dignus that the priest says before receiving communion (3times). Oh, and some places ring the bell once when he removes the veil from the chalice at the Offertory. I have to know these things because I am in charge of the altar boys for the EF Mass I attend.