Attending Get-Together for Homosexual Couple

[TheLittleLady]

Remember. Scripture tells us “By this shall all men know you are my disciples, by how you shun social interaction with any sinners”. No, wait, that is not quite right.

Let’s say that the man in question were a Catholic who married a woman outside of the Church. Would you go to that party?

What about if the Catholic man in question married a woman who had been twice divorced with no decrees of nullity? Does that mean you are supporting something?

We often see ourselves far more influential than we are. Are you a public speaker and author who has a platform against same-sex marriage? If so, it might be seen by your supporters and followers that you are acting as a hypocrite.

If, on the other hand, you are like me, an average Joe, work on loving even those with whom you find icky sinners.

That being said, if you are going to go to the party and glower at everyone, then, stay home.

 

[Eddie18]

From the Summa Theologica:

“The weak should avoid associating with sinners, on account of the danger in which they stand of being perverted by them. But it is commendable for the perfect, of whose perversion there is no fear, to associate with sinners that they may convert them. For thus did Our Lord eat and drink with sinners as related by Mt. 9:11-13. Yet all should avoid the society of sinners, as regards fellowship in sin; in this sense it is written (2 Cor. 6:17): “Go out from among them . . . and touch not the unclean thing,” i.e. by consenting to sin”

 

[Thorolfr]

I wouldn’t go. I’ve had to break ties with a gay friend which was such a huge relief. I had never told him I disapproved which made it feel like I was lying all the time and made me look like I approved of his lifestyle by being around him.

I find it sad that someone would break off ties with a gay friend because they’re afraid that even “being around” them is going to send the message that they approve. Is that what it means in the Catechism when it says about gay people that, “They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity”?

Yes, that is true. Maybe before breaking ties, I would remind the person that I don’t approve of their lifestyle, and show them where in Scripture it is condemned etc. Then the issue is on their conscience and I did my part. Then if my friend didn’t want to change his lifestyle, I would have no choice but to break ties.

Do you think that families should do this as well? For example, if a parent discovers that their son is gay, should they break off ties with their son if he doesn’t change his “lifestyle”?

 

[RunMan]

My aunt who will be at the event just sent me a picture of a the decorations she set up: rainbow flags and a rainbow cake.

This makes the most sense to me though…

‘If i were to avoid gay couples, I would also have to avoid

people who were living with their heterosexual partners
people who were divorced and remarried (in most cases there’s no way I could possibly know all their personal details of whether they got an annulment or even needed an annulment, so I’d just have to avoid them)
people who were openly engaging in sex outside marriage (i.e. going home with their girlfriend or boyfriend at the end of the night)
people who I saw, or had good reason to believe were, cheating on their spouses
people who I saw, or had good reason to believe were, using drugs or drinking too much’

I will probably go and treat it as a reunion of family friends, but if it turns into a marriage celebration I will leave.

 

[Lara]

I really don’t think you should go. You have a good excuse anyhow. People’s adult kids often don’t go to their parents’ friends’ events.

 

[Eddie18]

Yes, I know of clergy who have recommended people breaking ties even with their own children over such matters. The child needs to know how serious the situation is and that they are going to lose their soul. The parent in such a situation however should make sure it’s clear to their child that they love them and will accept them back should they give up their vice. A parent would do the same for any horrific sins, such as if their child was a murderer or rapist.

 

[Eddie18]

Yes, you would also have to avoid any other situations, such as the ones you just listed, if you feel there is a chance for scandal.

 

[Thorolfr]

Yes, I know of clergy who have recommended people breaking ties even with their own children over such matters. The child needs to know how serious the situation is and that they are going to lose their soul. The parent in such a situation however should make sure it’s clear to their child that they love them and will accept them back should they give up their vice. A parent would do the same for any horrific sins, such as if their child was a murderer or rapist.

So what do you make of “Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message to Parents of Homosexual Children and Suggestions for Pastoral Ministers” when it says:

The purpose of this pastoral message is to reach out to parents trying to cope with the discovery of homosexuality in their adolescent or adult child…

Accepting Your Child
How can you best express your love—itself a reflection of God’s unconditional love—for your child? At least two things are necessary.

First, don’t break off contact; don’t reject your child. A shocking number of homosexual youth end up on the streets because of rejection by their families. This, and other external pressures, can place young people at a greater risk for self-destructive behaviors like substance abuse and suicide.

Your child may need you and the family now more than ever. He or she is still the same person. This child, who has always been God’s gift to you, may now be the cause of another gift: your family becoming more honest, respectful, and supportive. Yes, your love can be tested by this reality, but it can also grow stronger through your struggle to respond lovingly.

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/homosexuality/always-our-children.cfm

 

[Eddie18]

I think this is bad advice. Yes, let your child know you love them and are there for them, once they get away from their vice. This way the child cannot claim that their parents abandoned them. If they choose to go out on the street so they can hold onto their vice, then so be it. In the meantime, pray hard for them and have Masses said for them.

 

[Thorolfr]

I think this is bad advice. Yes, let your child know you love them and are there for them, once they get away from their vice. This way the child cannot claim that their parents abandoned them. If they choose to go out on the street so they can hold onto their vice, then so be it. In the meantime, pray hard for them and have Masses said for them.

So you disagree with this “Statement of the Bishops’ Committee on Marriage and Family” which was issued by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops?

 

[Eddie18]

Absolutely. I know of multiple clergy throughout my life that have given advice to the contrary.

 

[RunMan]

But then I would not be able to ever have dinner with my brothers, uncle, or grandma if I were to avoid situations with people who are actively committing intrinsically disordered sexual acts. Is this true or am I off the mark?

 

[RunMan]

I will admit the main reason I would be going is to keep the peace in the family. My parents would be very upset if I were to go. I am at home from college right now and living at home. They would not be able to drop the subject and when I did wrong, they would bring up how I am judged these people and then am myself sinning.

However, I do acknowledge that yes, it is a refection on my parents if they choose to treat me this way and if they do not respect my decision. I think the difference is that, yes I may be actively sinning each day and have my own disordered ways, but I am actively trying to change these sins and behaviors. These people are not. I for sure feel that going would constitute me supporting them living in mortal sin.

 

[kainosktisis]

Perhaps it would be best to consider the words of St. Paul to the Church in Corinth in 1 Corinthians 5 NABRE (USCCB):

1 Corinthians, CHAPTER 5 | USCCB

9
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people,
10
not at all referring to the immoral of this world or the greedy and robbers or idolaters; for you would then have to leave the world.
11
But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person.
12
For why should I be judging outsiders? Is it not your business to judge those within?
13
God will judge those outside. “Purge the evil person from your midst.”

In the Commentary below Ch. 5, this note is included:

“* [5:9–13] Paul here corrects a misunderstanding of his earlier directives against associating with immoral fellow Christians. He concedes the impossibility of avoiding contact with sinners in society at large but urges the Corinthians to maintain the inner purity of their own community.”

Just some thoughts…

 

[Eddie18]

If I had family members who were committing horrific sins that were public knowledge, I personally would not associate with any of them. I would check with some clergy on the subject.

 

[Theo2]

From the Summa Theologica:

“The weak should avoid associating with sinners, on account of the danger in which they stand of being perverted by them. But it is commendable for the perfect, of whose perversion there is no fear, to associate with sinners that they may convert them. For thus did Our Lord eat and drink with sinners as related by Mt. 9:11-13. Yet all should avoid the society of sinners, as regards fellowship in sin; in this sense it is written (2 Cor. 6:17): “Go out from among them . . . and touch not the unclean thing,” i.e. by consenting to sin”

Eddie,

Thanks.

Yet all should avoid the society of sinners, as regards fellowship in sin; in this sense it is written (2 Cor. 6:17): “Go out from among them . . . and touch not the unclean thing,” i.e. by consenting to sin”

I think we are talking about participation in an orgy or something.
Going to a wedding and praying for the couple to find truth in our Lord, I see no problem with that.

 

[Thorolfr]

If I had family members who were committing horrific sins that were public knowledge, I personally would not associate with any of them. I would check with some clergy on the subject.

So, it’s only bad to associate with people who commit “horrific sins” (I don’t actually believe that homosexual activity is a “horrific sin”) if it’s public knowledge?

 

[EXdrinker]

If i were to avoid gay couples, I would also have to avoid’

“people who were living with their heterosexual partners” Not necessarily, you would need to avoid public celebrations of their relationship like a house warming party for them.

“people who were divorced and remarried (in most cases there’s no way I could possibly know all their personal details of whether they got an annulment or even needed an annulment, so I’d just have to avoid them)” Not necessarily, just celebrations of their union.

“people who were openly engaging in sex outside marriage (i.e. going home with their girlfriend or boyfriend at the end of the night)” You should avoid being with them WHEN this is happening or dropping one of them off at the other’s house for the night, yes.

“people who I saw, or had good reason to believe were, cheating on their spouses” If they are bragging about it or celebrating it, yes, you should avoid that situation.

“people who I saw, or had good reason to believe were, using drugs or drinking too much’” Yes, you should not be socializing with people when they are doing these things.

The difference is in the context of the event. You do not need to avoid a wedding because some of the guests coming may have irregular or objectively sinful relationships but you should avoid a wedding of a couple in an irregular or objectively sinful relationship, or gatherings celebrating these relationships.

None of those statements directly relate to the choice that you need to make. That is a superfiical argument that let’s us make the comfortable choice. We are not made for comfort, we are made for greatness. Love them all, let them know because of this love, you cannot attend something that is not right, something that is damaging to their souls.

 

[Eddie18]

The Church teaches that there are 2 reasons to avoid sinners. The first is that there is danger of you falling into the same sin, and second, if there are others who know about the reputation of the sinner, it may spread scandal for you to be seen with them.

Even if scandal is not a risk, Catholics shouldn’t be keeping bad company either way. Your pastor may provide dispensations based on the situation.

 

[Thorolfr]

TechieGuy:

Well, he’s your dad’s friend, not yours, right?

This is also a good point.
Unless this person was so close to your family he was like an extended relative to you and you had a lot of interaction with him, this really shouldn’t be your issue.

I agree with this. Go if this person has been an important part of your life and you care for them, but don’t go if you haven’t been close to this person and going to this particular event would make you feel uncomfortable. But don’t listen to the people who are suggesting that you should generally shun or avoid being around a person who is gay, even one who is in a same-sex relationship. Although I’m not Catholic, that doesn’t seem to me to be in line with Catholic teaching as expressed either in the Catechism or in documents such as “Always Our Children”.