Attending Lent/Easter services or not

[scared]

Hi:

As many of you know I am struggling. With the approaching Ash Wednesday and lent, I am seriously considering not attending anything. If I went I am not sure I wouldn’t be doing more harm than good, my only draw back is my children who really want to go, they can’t if I don’t. So I am torn, any suggestions.

scared

 

[Mike_O]

Do not deny your children the faith. That would be an awful thing to do.

There is no reason not to go. Everyone suffers. The greatest saints had periods of terrible suffering, times when they doubted the existence of God. Go, practice your faith as normal. To not go would be to commit grave sin (as far as the Sunday obligation is concerned).

In what way, specifically, are you “torn”? Is there a religious order in the area that offers spiritual direction? Try contacting an Opus Dei priest for spiritual direction.

I recommend for you the books The Imitation of Christ and Introduction to the Devout Life. Read these books and try the meditations to bring you back around.

 

[puzzleannie]

since one well known tactic of the Enemy is to make spiritual exercises, worship, prayer etc. repugnant or seem worthless, refusing to attend Mass and other rites of Lent and Easter would of course be cooperating with this tactic. the reason for worshipping with the community is obedience to Christ’s clear command, not to feel good, “be fed”, satisfy an urge, feel comfortable and affirmed, or even the satisfaction of knowing you have fulfilled a duty, no matter how unpleasant. The reason is to be faithful and obedient, no matter what.

 

[wjp984]

I am really not sure about this or am in no way placing any blame on anyone in my family. However, at least for the first years of my parent’s marriage both my parents went to church and naturally we went with them. Then my mom, who was aganostic anyways jsut got tired of going so she stopped and naturally all of us learned of her actual opinions of God. After that the marriage just went downhill and although my dad still went to church, it was no longer a necesity for me and my brother and sister to go so sometimes we went with him but if there was any other thing we felt like doing instead, naturally since my mom didn’t go anymore we just didn’'t go. Well as I said the marriage while still continuing a few more years came to an end and the family never really was close after that with everyone doing things on their own and it would be an inconvneience for everyone to be home at the same time since no one got along. Again, the events that led to the end of the amrriage very well may have happened anyways. However, my mom stopping to go to church and therefore creatinga situaton where the family didn’t go to church aymore or at least not together certainly dind’t help. So just be careful.

 

[scared]

wjp984:

It is one of my concerns, as it has happened when we left before, different reasons that then no one goes.

Puzzleannie:

My biggest problem is I am not sure God exists so how can I be faithful and obedient if he doesn’t exist?

Mike O:
My children are the one thing that is making this difficult. If they didn’t want to go and were not so involved I would simply walk away, but to do that to them I know is very wrong. I could take them drop them off and sit in the car and wait.

What am I torn about? I can’t just go and practice my faith like normal, I don’t have faith.I am not sure God exists. I am very close to renouncing my faith, I have written, but not sent a letter to the Bishop. I have even asked my priest to dispense me from Sunday/Holy days of obligation until I can inform the Bishop. He hasn’t responded, but earlier he told me to leave the church so dispensation shouldn’t be a problem. We only have one religious order anywhere close, but for now I can’t go there, long story, just not an option. My children and dh firmly believe in the church and God. However, if I don’t go they don’t go. That’s why I am so torn.

It isn’t getting any better either, although I have continued to go to mass, I am increasingly becoming more angry and resentful when I am there, how can this be healthy for my kids to see, at first it was easy to hide, not so much anymore, of course my priest and I are at odds so that doesn’t help the hiding aspect.

scared

 

[Mike_O]

scared:

My biggest problem is I am not sure God exists so how can I be faithful and obedient if he doesn’t exist?

Read this:peterkreeft.com/topics/first-cause.htm

Then consider the following: Jesus exists. There is absolutely no doubt about this, despite certain recent “controversies” in the courtrooms of Italy.

Now Jesus said He was the Son of God, one with God (“I and the Father are one”).

There are two, and only two possibilities:

1. Jesus is who He says he is, namely, God, ergo, God exists.
2. Jesus spent 3 years of His public ministry duping people and lying for no apparent reason, then, to really convince them of these “lies,” He underwent a gruesome Passion which consisted of Roman soldiers peeling the flesh off His bones with horseflesh whips, pressing thorns into His head, and then driving rusted iron nails through His hands and feet before leaving Him to hang on a piece of wood for three hours. To advance this theory, one must also accept that all the foregoing saints that followed Christ and His Church are all liars or manaical idiots who also allowed themselves to be martyred, killed, and persecuted while devoting their lives to the grand conspiratorial lie of a fairy tale.

Consider #1. Consider #2. I think you can figure out which is the right one.

I could take them drop them off and sit in the car and wait.

Rather than sitting in the car, why not go in with them? Even non-Catholics attend Mass. Attendance will not kill you. You give the impression that some sort of evil will happen when you set foot inside a building of worship.

What am I torn about? I can’t just go and practice my faith like normal, I don’t have faith.I am not sure God exists.

This is faith.

Being unsure but living a life as though He is there is perhaps the essence of faith. Some of the people who saw Jesus do His great miracles even struggled to believe, hence the prayer, “I believe’ help thou my unbelief.”

C.S Lewis said that there are moments when the believer is assaulted with thoughts of how there cannot possibly be a world after this one, that this is all, we will die and there will be nothing. But he urged constancy. Practice your faith and it will come back to you.

Giving up is inexcusable. Practicing your faith (Mass, the sacraments, prayer, etc.) is the way of having God give it back to you.

The struggle is some of what Jesus referenced when He said “Take up your cross and follow Me.”

I am very close to renouncing my faith, I have written, but not sent a letter to the Bishop. I have even asked my priest to dispense me from Sunday/Holy days of obligation until I can inform the Bishop. He hasn’t responded, but earlier he told me to leave the church

Why would you do this? What good would it accomplish to leave the Church? Consider once more a logical proposition:

1. Even if you are unsure, you must recognize the possibility that staying in the Church and trying to regain your faith will mean your salvation.
2. Leaving the Church will never merit you salvation.

So in #1, even for a doubter, salvation is possible. In #2 it is not.

I find it hard to believe that a Catholic priest told you to “leave the Church.” Is that really true? If so, he should perhaps consider finding another occupation. Understand that this was a terrible thing to say.

Why not contact one of the apologists or priests at Catholic Answers by phone or e-mail? I can tell you this: they certainly won’t tell you to leave the Church, and they may well be God’s instrument to helping you regain your faith.

However, if I don’t go they don’t go. That’s why I am so torn.

There is no reason to be torn. By beginning this thread it is clear that you know what the right answer is. If you thought not going was a good option, you would not have asked the question.

You already know you must go. What is it that makes you resistant to continuing the effort? Why are you tempted to “renounce your faith” without a struggle? You don’t need to visit a religious order–as mentioned, there are people on this very website who can be of help.

It isn’t getting any better either, although I have continued to go to mass, I am increasingly becoming more angry and resentful when I am there, how can this be healthy for my kids to see, at first it was easy to hide, not so much anymore,

What about the Mass makes you angry? Unless you are quite literally standing in the pew seething with visible anger, in what way would this be harmful to your children?

I think some suggestions have been made to you here. It is up to you to use them and begin.

 

[Mike_D30]

Just go for your kids, it’s an hour of your time

 

[wjp984]

why can’t your husband take them? If it is because he has to work which is a valid excuse since Ash Wednesday to my knowledge is not an obligatory thing, then you should bring them. Even my non believing mom would take us if we wanted to go and no one else could bring us. But although I think you got the point from my earler message I wanrn you again. Nothing good can come from you leaving the church and it may very well lead to the destruction of your family.

 

[m134e5]

Leaving the Church will only make things worse- both for you and for your family.

Since you are posting on this board, I trust you care enough about the faith to ask for advice on this issue- I must say that’s a step above many people- they just leave without asking for advice or even looking back whenever they aren’t happy.

I encourage you to spend a lot of time in prayer this Lent. Ask God to strengthen your faith. Many parishes give parish missions or retreats or have prayer services. I encourage you to look around your area, and see if there is something like that going on.

 

[kage_ar]

So, if I die and find out there is nothing after death, no heaven, no hell – just nothing – or if I find out that we keep going back in other lives, still – what have I lost by practicing my Catholic faith? Nothing.

If on the other hand I turn from my faith – and I die and find out that I rejected eternal life for eternal death, then I find out that my rejection of Faith caused others to stumble and lose their faith, that I may have even caused my own precious child to lose Heaven – that would be the very worst eternal punishment.

I have read your posts, and if it is that much of an ordeal for you, go for your children. Do not let them see your anger or frustration, just do what mom’s have done forever and go out of love for those children. Would you walk into a burning building to save your children? Would you jump in front of a savage dog to save that child? Sure you would – then sit serenely through Mass for an hour for them.

The priest with whom there are “issues” will not be assigned to your parish forever.

Remember, the Bible tells us when you have done all you can to stand – just stand. Stand til you can again walk, and walk til you can again run.

 

[scared]

kage_ar

Yes, I am well aware that to leave and not practice my religion if I die, I would be damned to hell, but I am living in hell now so there isn’t much difference.

As it sits now the only reason I go is for my kids, but they are aware that something is going on between myself and the priest, that can’t be good. If it wasn’t for the kids I would have been gone in August.

As for the priest not being here forever, our last parish priest was here for 28 years until he retired. To me that could be forever.

m134e5

I don’t want to make things worse, but the struggling has become worse. I have left once before because someone said I did something that could never be forgiven. They were wrong, I did nothing wrong, except not seek help. This time I sought help, if I leave this time the Bishop is going to know and he can deal with the issues, I can’t.

Our church is small and doesn’t have retreats, missions, or prayer services. I live quite a distance from any major centre that would offer these.

wjp984
My dh has knows what is going on. He has decided to support me through this whole thing. Basically if I don’t go no one goes.
I don’t think it will lead to the distruction of my family, but perhaps the families faith distruction. Which is not a good thing either.

Mike_D30
For now that is who I do it for. But once the priest is back that is likely to change.

Mike O

I read your link. The best I can come up with is that something created something. Was it God, I have no way of knowing. People believe, I don’t take that from them, I just don’t know.

No. Mike no evil will come to me if I enter the church, what will happen is that I will become very angry, I know I am not wanted there, I do have a sense of frustration, unworthyness and even a sense of fear I look around as people worship, pray things I no longer can do. Why does this happen I don’t know, I just know it isn’t a place I should be.

I am working on a couple of C.S.Lewis books.

I guess what I am doing is inexcussable then.

Why would I renounce my faith and leave the church. Well, first I have tried to stay inspite of being told to leave, yes, Mike not once but three times. I was told to leave until I am done counselling that maybe years away, what would be the chance of ever returning after being gone that long? Could it happen, yes, but I get the message that is being sent loud and clear, get out, we don’t want you, I am just finally doing what I have been told. The only thing is if I leave, and that is why I asked for dispensation incase, someone was able to convience me not to, the Bishop is going to know what is going on, everything, I am not innocent in what happened, I accept the blame, so I will tell him everything. From start to finish, he can clean up what is left.

I did contact a priest from the forum. They are very busy, so I am not surprised there was no response.

It’s not like I haven’t tried to fight this. It has been going on for 6 months, turmoil, pain, hurt, anger, resentment, and now finally removal. I don’t have anything left to fight with. It is my kids I am worried about. I already know I am going to hell, that isn’t the problem, I don’t want my kids to have to endure what I am. They are innocent, they have done nothing, but they are directly affected by the problems between myself and the priest. I don’t know how to stop that problem except not to be there, then they can’t be hurt. They are old enough to understand that I am having problems, although they primarily think it is health related, which to some extent it is. The priest doesn’t mind them or my dh coming it is me that he has the problem with, so if I leave the problem is solved. I don’t see any other options. This will only get worse, if I stay.

I am truly scared of what is happening.

scared

 

[Mike_O]

scared:

I read your link. The best I can come up with is that something created something. Was it God, I have no way of knowing. People believe, I don’t take that from them, I just don’t know.

The link was designed to give a rational, irrefutable proof for the existence of God. Sometimes knowing intellectually is not enough. You must trust: “Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”

I know I am not wanted there, I do have a sense of frustration, unworthyness and even a sense of fear I look around as people worship, pray things I no longer can do. Why does this happen I don’t know, I just know it isn’t a place I should be.

The above is not true. How can you say you are not wanted? It is clear enough from this thread that every respondent wants you to remain in the Church. So to say you are not wanted is untrue.

Forget about the others. Go to the early morning Mass. Only the elderly usually go to those; it is quiet, not a lot of people, so you will not be pressed to look around at big crowds praying. Shut your eyes if it helps. Don’t pay attention to the others.

Well, first I have tried to stay inspite of being told to leave, yes, Mike not once but three times. I was told to leave until I am done counselling that maybe years away, what would be the chance of ever returning after being gone that long? Could it happen, yes, but I get the message that is being sent loud and clear, get out, we don’t want you, I am just finally doing what I have been told. The only thing is if I leave, and that is why I asked for dispensation incase, someone was able to convience me not to, the Bishop is going to know what is going on, everything, I am not innocent in what happened, I accept the blame, so I will tell him everything. From start to finish, he can clean up what is left.

Please do not take the following in the wrong way; I do not mean it as insult. But given your replies so far on this and other threads, I simply cannot believe that Catholic priests are explicitly telling you to LEAVE the Church. This is simply not something a priest can do unless he is the worst of the worst in terms of compassion-less people. Perhaps you could have misinterpreted, taken some of his comments in too sensitive a manner? I guarantee you if you spoke or wrote your bishop, and your bishop has a shred of orthodoxy, he would whole-heartedly encourage you to stay.

I did contact a priest from the forum. They are very busy, so I am not surprised there was no response.

Constancy. Persistence. Contact again. Flood the mailboxes. Father Serpa is a staff apologist. Contact him. If you get no reply, reply to this thread. There is a number for Catholic Answers for the staff apologists. The staff apologists have no CHOICE but to speak with you; you’ll have them live on the phone. This is worth fighting for like nothing else in your life; do not give in.

I already know I am going to hell, that isn’t the problem,

Now, again, why do you say this? We can never be sure of the state of our souls, whether we go to Heaven or hell; this depends upon the mercy of God. You are defeating yourself here already. Nothing can improve if you consider yourself damned while you are still on Earth with a chance.

Come on now. Give it a try. E-mail or telephone the people mentioned and you will have an answer.

 

[Balance]

Hi scared,
just a little note, for what it’s worth, to encourage you to stick with it.
Know that there is hope, and that God is with you in your turmoil. Know that things can, and will, get better, ebven if it seems, right now, that htey never will. Don’t let anyone else’s judgement on you, or opinion of you, or actions towards you, make you doubt God’s love for and the mercy and forgiveness he offers you. These are real and tangible things, if you seek God with honesty and humility.

Don’t let things go round and round in your head, confusing you and mixing you up - talk it over with someone. Get it out into the light, don’t let it fester in the dark.

You’re in my prayers.
Peace be with you and your heart.

 

[scared]

Hello Mike O

Ok, let me rephrase this, those in my parish do not want me there. I do realize that many here have encouraged me to stay.

If I go to early morning mass, yes it is mostly elderly people who do welcome me, however, it is the same priest.

Unfortunately, it is very true. I have it in writing. He told me to take a time out, until counselling is done, I even questioned it, and had him clarify what he meant, he said he meant leave the church. We have a new bishop and from what I am hearing he is pretty tough. He booted two priests already, with very just cause.
I have been informed that if he gains knowledge of what is going on he will act. I am fighting a losing battle with my parish priest, perhaps the bishop should be intervining.

Being damned to hell, well you are right, if God exists he is the one who gets to make the decision, but if I don’t beleive in him and walk away from the church then according to the catholic church I am damned to hell. So unless I do a big 180 and start walking toward the church instead of away from it well, you get the picture.

So what am I suppose to say to those you want me to contact? Hey I am going to leave the church, what should I do? As you indicated they will tell me to stay in the church.

I appreciate your words Mike O, I don’t mean to offend you, this is just something I don’t know what to do about.

HI Balance:
Thanks for the encouragement. I am in counselling, the counsellor is aware of what is going on. But right now is on holiday. So I am on my own for awhile.

scared
scared

 

[otm]

So go to another parish.

 

[wjp984]

Well I hope it all works out for you.

 

[jc-servant]

Don’t let this priest run you off even if you are confused or doubting or scared! I had a priest tell me at my 2nd confession “is that all?” I almost cried, but I just did not go to him for confession again. I drove 45 minutes to another priest.

We don’t know all of your background story with the parish and this priest, but unless you are doing something scandalous or disruptive during mass I really don’t think he can bar you from coming. Maybe he meant don’t receive communion if you doubt the teachings instead of don’t come to mass at all?

Please don’t give up just because some people in your parish don’t seem to want you there. Who knows what their lives are like or why they act like they do. They don’t own the parish and your parish is not the entire church. We are more than a billion people all over the world and you’ve heard from lots of us who want you to stay and keep trying! I understand that some people live in small towns or otherwise cannot get to another parish. I hurt for you because I wish you could experience my parish or another welcoming place and feel the love of Christ like it should be.

Maybe you could open your heart in private and ask God to grant you peace over and over again. It is really a leap of faith when we don’t know what to think or cannot figure things out logically. One of my favorite prayers is “I believe. Help my unbelief.”

God promises us that we will not be given more than we can bear with His help. However, without truly being open to His help life can seem overwhelming! He never promised it would be easy, just that we can make it with His help.

I will pray for you and your family!!!

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quoting Scared…

I have even asked my priest to dispense me from Sunday/Holy days of obligation until I can inform the Bishop. He hasn’t responded, but earlier he told me to leave the church so dispensation shouldn’t be a problem.

I dont think a priest should advise any person at all to leave Catholicism…that is very wrong! You have spiritual difficulties and a baptized Catholic. But I tend to think that your spiritual difficulties may be not strictly spiritual in origin but connected with your parish priest and what seems to be some sort of antagonism between you.

It isn’t getting any better either, although I have continued to go to mass, I am increasingly becoming more angry and resentful when I am there, how can this be healthy for my kids to see, at first it was easy to hide, not so much anymore, of course my priest and I are at odds so that doesn’t help the hiding aspect.

Are you sure that your crisis of Faith is not brought about by the fact that you are at loggerheads with your parish priest…hence the anger and resentment you feel?

I cant help but feel that there is more to your crisis than you have related and perhaps connected with your parish priest and your strained relationship with him.

You have mentioned your pp a couple of times - is there more to the strained relationship - I mean causes of it - than you have stated?

Certainly you have every right even duty to approach your Diocesan Bishop if the relationship between you and your parish priest is troubling you to the extent it seems to be…not only are you in a crisis of Faith but your children may suffer and in their own Faith and Catholicism because of what is happening between two adults after all who do not seem to be able to come to an amicable relationship which is having a detrimental effect on the children too.

My parish has real problems about me because I suffer mental illness, when it became disturbing enough to me, I simply changed parishes since the parish refuses to address the issue of mental illness and parishioners who may suffer with it.

Barb

 

[scared]

Hello All and thank you for your responses.

First to go to another parish is over an hour’s drive away.

He hasn’t barred me, he has just told me not to come. Yes, that meant, not to mass. Just me, not my family. It is because of things that happened years ago. None involving him.

I am pretty much at the end. I am pretty sure God doesn’t exist. Not totally convinced yet, but 95 percent sure, he doesn’t. I can’t open my heart if I don’t believe.

Barb: Yes, telling someone to even temporarially to leave the church is not a good idea. My problems with the priest manafested after I went to him for help. He hasn’t helped the situation as far as the crisis of faith, but he is in no way responsible for it. It was happening before I went to see him.

There are other reasons I am having trouble, but they are not related to the pp.

I do realize that this could have a negative impact on my children. I try to keep it from them. Right now all they know is that it is temporarily not a good idea for me to go to mass. Although my old is aware there is tension between the two of us.

It is not all in my parish that wish me to not be there. But like many parishes there are clicks and many times they run things. Such is the case in our parish. My family doesn’t fit in the click. We don’t play hockey or socialize with those in the click, thus we are not in the inner circle and how things are run. Sad to say, small town politics seeps into the church and rule the church in some cases.

Bottom line, my priest and I don’t get along, he is not a bad man. He is good to other parishioners, he doesn’t have ill will toward the rest of my family. If I could find a way to fix things with him, I would, but for now it isn’t going to happen. We simply can not talk to one another. His choice not mine.

With Ash Wednesday a week away, chances are I am not going to go.

scared

 

[Toni]

puzzleannie:

since one well known tactic of the Enemy is to make spiritual exercises, worship, prayer etc. repugnant or seem worthless, refusing to attend Mass and other rites of Lent and Easter would of course be cooperating with this tactic. the reason for worshipping with the community is obedience to Christ’s clear command, not to feel good, “be fed”, satisfy an urge, feel comfortable and affirmed, or even the satisfaction of knowing you have fulfilled a duty, no matter how unpleasant. The reason is to be faithful and obedient, no matter what.

This all has so much meaning please attend and take your children. The great education of the Lord’s life, death and Ressurection. Especially the triduum. There is so much beauty in these three days and I believe it is the most beautiful and meaningful time in a Catholic’s life.