Attending Lent/Easter services or not

[Mike_O]

scared:

First to go to another parish is over an hour’s drive away.

Big matters call for big sacrifices.

If your child needed chemotherapy and the hospital was an hour away, I suspect you’d dispense with the inconvenience.

And yet, if someone dies of cancer in the state of grace, so much the better. If someone insists that the local parish is damaging to the faith life but won’t seek the alternative…you can fill in the blank.

He hasn’t barred me, he has just told me not to come. Yes, that meant, not to mass. Just me, not my family. It is because of things that happened years ago. None involving him.

Feel free not to answer, but what exactly happened “years ago” and why let it deter you?

I am pretty much at the end. I am pretty sure God doesn’t exist. Not totally convinced yet, but 95 percent sure, he doesn’t. I can’t open my heart if I don’t believe.

How sad, particularly after you seemed to positively respond to the many wishes of encouragement that all the people extended towards you on this thread.

If you don’t mind–and, considering you’re “at the end,” it seems you shouldn’t–what about the existence of God strikes you as impossible? People have posted the metaphysical discussions by St. Thomas Aquinas and Peter Kreeft about rational proofs for the existence of God. Have you read this? You say that you are “95% sure” God does not exist. I imagine you must not have read about these very logical proofs of His existence.

But it seems your trouble is more of an emotional nature. The faith life is not about one’s emotions, not about one’s “feelings.” This is a big mistake in American especially. I know a number of family members who left the Church because they wanted to seek self-actualization in Eastern meditation techniques and other “feel good” mechanisms to bolster emotional distresses.

In short, it was about them, not about God. Throughout your posts you have given this indication; there is some trouble in your life, you are angry at Mass, you don’t like the priest, there is some dark incident in the past involving you and the parish…in essence, none of this has anything whatsoever to do with God. You are allowing your negative emotional state to encroach upon objective reality.

God exists. Believing or denying this changes nothing. It is objective reality. Therefore the next key is to separate your emotional state from concrete truths about the temporal universe.

If I could find a way to fix things with him, I would, but for now it isn’t going to happen. We simply can not talk to one another. His choice not mine.

Again, this is not anyone’s choice but your own. You have chosen to allow this priest to determine the course of your faith life, perhaps through no conscious fault of your own. But this is a mistake.

There are other priests. If they are 15, 60, or 900 minutes away, it does not matter. “For what can you exchange your soul?” asked Jesus. Find a new priest. This is all. It is not hard, even in a time of declining vocations, to find a new priest. If you need help and truly cannot physically meet with a priest, there are priests who give spiritual direction by e-mail as well.

With Ash Wednesday a week away, chances are I am not going to go.

You must know that this is a fatal mistake. Why would you knowingly and willingly renounce what you have previously indicated you know to be true? You are angry when you go to Mass, and so you won’t go anymore? What is the real problem here? You have mixed your dislike of the priest with your anger at Mass with your professed uncertainty of God’s existence so that it is impossible to distinguish the three.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Mike O:

Big matters call for big sacrifices.

If your child needed chemotherapy and the hospital was an hour away, I suspect you’d dispense with the inconvenience.

And yet, if someone dies of cancer in the state of grace, so much the better. If someone insists that the local parish is damaging to the faith life but won’t seek the alternative…you can fill in the blank.Feel free not to answer, but what exactly happened “years ago” and why let it deter you?How sad, particularly after you seemed to positively respond to the many wishes of encouragement that all the people extended towards you on this thread.

If you don’t mind–and, considering you’re “at the end,” it seems you shouldn’t–what about the existence of God strikes you as impossible? People have posted the metaphysical discussions by St. Thomas Aquinas and Peter Kreeft about rational proofs for the existence of God. Have you read this? You say that you are “95% sure” God does not exist. I imagine you must not have read about these very logical proofs of His existence.

But it seems your trouble is more of an emotional nature. The faith life is not about one’s emotions, not about one’s “feelings.” This is a big mistake in American especially. I know a number of family members who left the Church because they wanted to seek self-actualization in Eastern meditation techniques and other “feel good” mechanisms to bolster emotional distresses.

In short, it was about them, not about God. Throughout your posts you have given this indication; there is some trouble in your life, you are angry at Mass, you don’t like the priest, there is some dark incident in the past involving you and the parish…in essence, none of this has anything whatsoever to do with God. You are allowing your negative emotional state to encroach upon objective reality.

God exists. Believing or denying this changes nothing. It is objective reality. Therefore the next key is to separate your emotional state from concrete truths about the temporal universe.Again, this is not anyone’s choice but your own. You have chosen to allow this priest to determine the course of your faith life, perhaps through no conscious fault of your own. But this is a mistake.

There are other priests. If they are 15, 60, or 900 minutes away, it does not matter. “For what can you exchange your soul?” asked Jesus. Find a new priest. This is all. It is not hard, even in a time of declining vocations, to find a new priest. If you need help and truly cannot physically meet with a priest, there are priests who give spiritual direction by e-mail as well.You must know that this is a fatal mistake. Why would you knowingly and willingly renounce what you have previously indicated you know to be true? You are angry when you go to Mass, and so you won’t go anymore? What is the real problem here? You have mixed your dislike of the priest with your anger at Mass with your professed uncertainty of God’s existence so that it is impossible to distinguish the three.

Good post…insightful with sound advice.

 

[scared]

Ok, Mike O and Barbara:

Here it goes.

You are very right I would go to the ends of the earth for my children. I would die to let them live. They are my life, my hope and my dreams.

As for seeking the alternative parish, the problem is my child is extremely involved in the parish. She deserves to stay in the parish, I can’t and will not take that from her. I will drive her to every mass, even if I don’t attend.

As for what happened years ago, I will tell you it had nothing to do with the current parish or this priest. It happened as a child, before I was ever catholic. It is something that I will not discuss on a public form. It deters me because I have to heal from it as an adult and it will question everything about God and the church that I know.

I do sincerely appreciate all that has been said. I know many want me to stay and fight. I know that God never promised it would be easy to follow him.

I can give you no scriptural passages to prove he doesn’t exist. Yes, there are arguements that he does exist. In order for them to hold true, one must also believe. That is where my problem is I don’t believe anymore. At one time, I could prove God’s existance and believe it. Now I can’t, what is it based on? Experience. This didn’t just happen, I have questioned my faith for awhile. I have fought that question. However, after awhile it wears on you. It started with the no need to go to mass, but I did anyway. Then a deadened state entering any church. But I still went. To finally not being able to say the apostle’s creed.

I did speak with another priest about it. I was told I was in a crisis of faith, a very serious one. As it has been explained to me, once in that crisis it will take a lot of time to get out of. I will need the help of a priest and preferably my parish priest. Given my situation, which the other priest knows he strongly encouraged me not to parish hop. To do so would first take me out of a community, second I would not be physically part of the second community only on Sunday and as he stated that is NOT what parish life is about. Third I would have no close support to help deal with the crisis of faith. Not only that our Bishop can require us to stay in our geographical parish. So this is not that easy.

You seem to think my issues are more emotional. Are they emotional, Yes, but not in the sense that you are thinking. I am upset about what has and is happening. It is tearing me apart to loose the battle. There is one thing about faith, you must have blind trust. Right now I can’t have blind trust, because my trust in the church and clergy has been shattered. That trust must be repaired first. It isn’t about feeling good, I went years without feeling good about the church, but I always believed in God, until now.

So you talk about objective reality. Ok, well, objective reality is that the church is for all. Objective reality is that as catholics we are to have open arms and accept all no matter what. Objectively we are to trust. Now objectively can you answer that those things happen in all parishes with all catholics through out the world?

Again I will state that what happened in the past has nothing to do with this priest or this parish. However, it does have to do with God. Because if he exists, then everthing has to do with him. If he exists he knows all. No he will not stop someone from exercising their free will, but he if we believe he exists is there. If he exists than yes, all of this has to do with him. Why, because he sent his son to die on the cross for us, to forgive our sins.

I do realize that this is my battle. I realize that if God exists I am openly foresakeing him. I do realize that if he exists I am damning myself to hell. I also realize that priests are human and make mistakes. I am not saying this is all the priest’s fault. He is a good man, just not good for me. All I went looking for was peace for a very tormented soul. The torment is what is driving me away. I say I am 95 percent sure, why not 100 percent, because I hope that I am wrong, totally wrong and that someone can help me see that. Reading about the metaphysical discussions still require belief.

You see I know the teachings of the church, I know what the commanments are, I understand what the graces and scaraments are. Logically I know those things, what I lack is the belief in them. That is what faith is a belief.

Without, trust, belief, there is no faith. Without faith it is hard to continue to accept God. I wish I were wrong, maybe I am. I had hoped I could struggle and continue on to fight the battle, but I don’t have the strength to do it for much longer. I am tired. I can’t fight anymore, I have to give up.

scared

 

[wjp984]

well I hope the best for your children. My mom lost her faith in God years ago and while it may have had a negative impact on the family or perhaps me as well, it certainly didn’t cause me to lose my faith. It is about half and half in my family with agnostics and believers. So while I encourage you to stay in the church, your children hopefually and probably will remain with their faith even if you renounce it. Then they can pray for you to one day come back to it.

 

[jebojora]

Scared…

It is so painful to read your posts. I wish that I had something amazing to say that would help you.

I had horrible things happen in my childhood, and then something horrible happened to my child. Talk about amazing guilt!! I asked…where is God in this? How can He allow this. But I realized that God does not operate as a human being. He doesn’t do what we would, He does what is divinely right, and that is not something we can always understand.

I began to practice “offering it up.” I didn’t necessarily feel like it, I just did it. I prayed a lot for my family and myself, I cried a lot. Then I began to realize that God is what really matters. All of this will pass away one day…but He is forever. He sits in the judgement seat and all will be made right one day.

It’s small but when I feel seperated from God, or have doubts that He exists I say the Creed.

I’ve read the responses, and I have nothing to add but my prayers. I will pray for you and for your family.

 

[Mike_O]

scared:

As for seeking the alternative parish, the problem is my child is extremely involved in the parish

I’m sure your child would rather sacrifice some of the comforts of the home parish if he/she understood the attendant effects on his/her mother’s soul.

As for what happened years ago, I will tell you it had nothing to do with the current parish or this priest. It happened as a child, before I was ever catholic. It is something that I will not discuss on a public form. It deters me because I have to heal from it as an adult and it will question everything about God and the church that I know.

I have a guess as to what you refer to, but obviously it is better not to bring it up here.

Suffice it to say that, whatever heinous things people may do, even people who are ostensibly servants of God, no evil human action can possibly reflect God or any of His aspects. The questions of theodicy and the ever-present question, “How can a good, loving God allow x, y, and z evil?” seem to exceed the scope of this thread. They may be valid questions, but they are not excuses to abandon faith. In fact, the greatest saints are forged precisely out of awful trials.

I can give you no scriptural passages to prove he doesn’t exist. Yes, there are arguements that he does exist. In order for them to hold true, one must also believe. That is where my problem is I don’t believe anymore. At one time, I could prove God’s existance and believe it.

This is the logical fallacy.

If you are “100%”–or, in effect, sure–certain that God does not exist, the burden of proof falls upon you to disprove His existence, because you are expressing certainty. You cannot, as you said, “once prove God’s existence” and then later be unable to do so. Existence of supernatural realities is a constant. What changes is the emotional state of the subject.

However, after awhile it wears on you. It started with the no need to go to mass, but I did anyway. Then a deadened state entering any church. But I still went. To finally not being able to say the apostle’s creed.

With all due respect, some of the reasons given here do not make valid support for leaving the faith.

You are quite clearly referencing emotions: a “deadened state,” e.g. This has nothing to do with objective states of faith and everything to do with emotion. Do not confuse the two.

Also, what do you mean when you say that you “cannot say the Apostle’s Creed”? Are you physically unable to do so? If this is the case, it seems an exorcism is in order. But I suspect that, instead, you are letting sorrow prevent you from doing so. Once more, emotion, not faith.

There is one thing about faith, you must have blind trust. Right now I can’t have blind trust, because my trust in the church and clergy has been shattered.

Once more, with all due respect, this is incorrect.

Your faith in the clergy is meaningless as it relates to your faith in God. Whatever happened was clearly terrible; however, and this is the important point, God exists apart from clergy. God has alwasy existed, has always been all-loving, has always retained the nature of perfect goodness in all good qualities. The actions of human beings are something separate.

If, as a child, your teacher slapped you with a ruler, would you have forsworn education as too emotionally damaging? Would you dismiss your faith in the value of learning because of several bad episodes of imparting that learning?

Faith is NOT “blind trust.” Faith is knowledge. It is not emotion. You have confused the two consistently. If you are angry at the Church, angry at past episodes, doubting the existence of God…this is not a matter of faith.

Faith is, like love, an act of will. We choose to exercise our faith, to go to Mass. It is not dependent on emotional states and intellectual doubts of God’s existence. I think if you understood this your problems would begin to fade.

The torment is what is driving me away.

Yes, this is clear. You are emotionally troubled, but you cannot see that this should not bear upon your faith. They are separate realms.

Reading about the metaphysical discussions still require belief.

Not at all. They require a basic understanding of logic.

but I don’t have the strength to do it for much longer. I am tired. I can’t fight anymore, I have to give up.

You must know that this is a copout.

You spoke about love for your children. If you were hanging onto your child as he or she was petrified over a deep precipice, and the only thing that kept him or her from falling was your grip, would you, after a time, give up because “you’re tired”?

I think not. The faith and the destination of the soul is more important, if you can accept it, even than our familial relations. I highly recommend that you do indeed continue to fight. Life quite literally depends upon it.

 

[scared]

Hello Mike O:

I will try to answer some of your questions and comments.

Right now my child can’t leave the parish as this child represents the parish on a team. If we move then we could change parishes, however, I am not moving.

I have often questioned why God would allow anyone to have to endure horrid acts. Of coure the answer is free will of humans not God. Is this a valid reason to leave the faith, well that depends on what happened to the individual.

What is a valid reason for leaving the faith?

I did not say I was 100% sure God didn’t exist. I have a small amount of uncertainty left. If I was a 100% sure, I would be gone and not asking questions.

Now Mike O with all due respect I am not confusing emotions and objective states of faith. I can’t confuse the two, they are intertwined.

How can a person who is an athesist, believes in big bang, scientific evidence of how the world began and so on, suddenly believe in God? Similar how does a God fearing devote Catholic suddenly disbelieve in God?

What is keeping me from saying the apostle’s creed? Well, I am not sure why one would need an exorsim if they couldn’t physically say it. I can’t say it, because I don’t believe what I would be saying would be true. I would be a hipocrite standing in the church, that in itself would be very wrong. I don’t have faith, when it is gone it is gone. The question should be how do you get it back?

Yes, if God exists, he could easily exist without clergy, however, we differ on this point. Blind trust = Faith. I have to respectfully disagree with you. I have possed this question to a very noted clergy, there is only one thing you need to believe in God and that is faith and trust. Without them it is hard to believe God exists.

As for the teacher with the ruler, and equating it with education as being too emotional damageing. Ask the kids that dropped out of school, because of the scorn and redicule of teachers, they believe education wasn’t worth the pain and anquish they went through.

Mike O faith is not knowledge, it is quite the opposite. Take the bible for instance, it is a highly touted book of the Catholic Church. However, it is full of inconsitance and contridiction. If I use my knowledge to accept the faith in the bible, I would from an intellectual standpoint say it is a poorly written book full of contradiction. Therefore it is not to be given too much weight. However, Catholics give much weight to the bible. No faith is not knowledge it is a deep seated belief an emotion.

Now logic is a problem. You see logic is seen by most one way. For others another way. Logic is much like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder. My logic may be different for yours. Neither is wrong as it is what one can understand.

As for continueing to fight, well my letter to the Bishop has not been sent yet. I do know that for now I can’t attend mass. I also know that many want me to stay and fight. You asked if I would tire if my child was hanging onto me and the only thing stopping the fall was my grip, would I tire. I would hold on for as long as physically possible. If I tired and something happened I would never forgive myself for what happened. Can this be equated to me hanging on to God and then suddenly becoming too tired to hang on any longer? If I believed in God I would accept that while I had fallen God as in footprints was carrying me. But for me the single set of footprints are mine, am I walking away from God, maybe, maybe he has walked away. Either way he is gone.

I guess one the questions I should ask is for those who have left the church or struggled with leaving the church. What did you do to keep you here, or made you come back?

Mike O I am still very much struggling. I suppose as long as I continue to struggle it is still that 5% chance that is there. It is when I stop struggling and either accept God completely or lose that 5% and then it won’t matter, because I will be gone.

scared

 

[Mike_O]

scared:

If I was a 100% sure, I would be gone and not asking questions.

But you can never be 100% sure of what is untrue. Atheists will try to convince themselves that this is possible, but the “best” (re: worst) state an atheist can ever reach is 99%, i.e., agnosticism. As Chesterton said, if God did not exist, atheists would not exist.

I am not confusing emotions and objective states of faith

But you cannot see this situation objectively because you are far too involved. Those reading from an objective perspective can indeed see that this is precisely what has happened. Something bad has happened to you emotionally, and you have let this affect your faith. If faith were as tied to emotions as you suggest, we would have no saints. Consider St. Maximilian Kolbe sitting in the dungeon in Auschwitz watching men starving around him, lying in their own waste. As he prayed he heard the horrific screams of the dying. If faith were about emotions, most normal people would have some sort of psychotic episode and convert to nihilism in this case. But the spiritual realm, the soul of a human being, is simply something apart from the emotions. If you could recognize this, it would help.

When you are sad, for instance, do you altogether stop eating, sleeping, and breathing? In a sense, this is what you have done with your faith; the soul’s food and rest and breath is the faith, but when your emotional state is troubled, you let it go.

The question should be how do you get it back?

Keep practicing the faith. You are not a hypocrite for saying the Creed if you struggle with belief. Remember that the man from whose son Jesus cast out the devil said “I believe; help thou my unbelief.” Say this prayer with him, all the time, every day, throughout the day. That guy had Jesus standing right in front of him ready to perform a miracle, and still he doubted. So doubting is natural; the human mind is fragile. Giving up, though, is not excusable.

there is only one thing you need to believe in God and that is faith and trust

I am speaking about faith as one of two ways by which we know God. The other is reason. You seem to consider faith as some emotion, something to “regain” such as happiness or cheerfulness. This is the problem, and this is where you might be able to notice how you have made faith into an emotional rather than a spiritual principle. You do not “get back” faith; you continue practicing the faith, going to Mass, and praying.

This is an act of WILL, NOT an emotion. If, at Mass, you feel miserable, have doubts running through your mind all the time, be consoled. The greatest saints were also afflicted with the same. Space constraints do not allow me to name all the saints, who are now gazing upon the face of God, who have had this problem.

Take the bible for instance, it is a highly touted book of the Catholic Church. However, it is full of inconsitance and contridiction.

This is simply untrue. There have been numerous threads littering this board since its inception about such and such obscure Biblical “contradiction.” All of them are always ably answered. A Biblical “contradiction” is no more than one person’s misunderstanding. Try this website for some clearing up of common objections: bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm

I guess one the questions I should ask is for those who have left the church or struggled with leaving the church. What did you do to keep you here, or made you come back?

I think people have tried to help with this, and I can answer as well, because the same thing happening to you has happened to numerous members of my family. As we noted before, you have spoken of faith as something to “possess,” something that you can lose. These descriptions are too passive. It is not God who gives us faith. If you are doubting it will not “magically” reappear.

There are some who only turn to God in times of stress or trouble, preferring to ignore religion when things are going well. This is the common mistake of the emotions, as we have mentioned. So the answer to your question is the same: Continue to practice the faith, even if there is terrible desolation and struggle. Giving up can never be an option. I like to remember what St. Josemaria Escriva said. I paraphrase: “There are 25, or 50, or 75 years perhaps, in this life. And then, eternity. What, then, is even 75 years of suffering compared to eternity?”

So, you see, keep praying, and others will pray for you. It will improve if you accept that suffering and struggle is a part of the Catholic life.

 

[scared]

Hello All:

Mike O

I have started to reply to this about 5 different times, everytime I started and reread it was wrong.

So after much thought and discernment and a fairly hard push from a Priest, not my pp, but someone else. I have decided that I will attend Ash Wednesday services. I will then take it day by day. I am still not convinced that it is the right thing to do and I am still not sure God exists.

As far as being emotional and seeing things objectively, well I will give you that I am too involved, of course because it is to do with me I have to be involved. As far as prayer and participating in mass, well for now I simply can’t. As it was put to me, just being there and receiving the Body of Christ is enough. So with great reluctance I will go.

Thank you for everyones help and (name removed by moderator)ut. I know this will be a long difficult struggle. I am sure I will take one step forward and three back. But, then if God does exist, he never promised me a rose garden.

scared

 

[BarbaraTherese]

scared:

Hello All:

Mike O

I have started to reply to this about 5 different times, everytime I started and reread it was wrong.

So after much thought and discernment and a fairly hard push from a Priest, not my pp, but someone else. I have decided that I will attend Ash Wednesday services. I will then take it day by day. I am still not convinced that it is the right thing to do and I am still not sure God exists.

As far as being emotional and seeing things objectively, well I will give you that I am too involved, of course because it is to do with me I have to be involved. As far as prayer and participating in mass, well for now I simply can’t. As it was put to me, just being there and receiving the Body of Christ is enough. So with great reluctance I will go.

Thank you for everyones help and (name removed by moderator)ut. I know this will be a long difficult struggle. I am sure I will take one step forward and three back. But, then if God does exist, he never promised me a rose garden.

scared

All credit to you Scared…and I think the priest you mentioned has given you wise, insightful and jolly good advice to attend Mass Ash Wednesday and then to with simplicity take things day by day after that…Lent is the place of the desert - we are thirsting from all kinds of needs but no water seems in sight…the desert. In a desert we seem alone and with only ourselves…our own selfhood stripped of all support and decoration, and in the desert this can be a most unwelcome sight…our real sinful self.

I hope the priest you have mentioned will be in a position to continually support you through a very difficult journey, and if so that you will keep in touch with him.

I am and I think probably a lot are on that road that is one step forward, and then three back, then two forward, one back, five forward etc. etc. … often the rhythym of life and the spiritual life I think. Read somewhere that saints are sinners who dont give up. Dont give up!

I know my response is a little late - I have been absent from CAF but have kept you in my mind, heart and prayers…and will continue to do so…the only place where there is no hope is when I choose to give up on hope itself…
I have decided to keep a list here of my special intentions and spend time with them daily…

Barb

 

[scared]

Hello :BarbaraTherese

Well, I did go to the service, but it was not good. I had to fight to stay and it took every ounce of strength not to burst into tears.
I left deflated and not ever wanting to go back to the church. It is the absolute worst I have ever felt. The word that best describes it is I felt discarded.

As for the priest that encouraged me to go, I will not be having anymore contact with him. Long story.

I do however have a different person who is going to intervine between myself and my pp. What will become of it, I don’t know. I am trying to keep an open mind.

This by far is the toughest journey I have ever been on. But like you said one step forward many back. I don’t know if I will ever reach a conclussion where I will find God, but for now I will take it day by day. That’s all I can do.

scared

 

[BarbaraTherese]

scared:

Hello :BarbaraTherese

Well, I did go to the service, but it was not good. I had to fight to stay and it took every ounce of strength not to burst into tears.
I left deflated and not ever wanting to go back to the church. It is the absolute worst I have ever felt. The word that best describes it is I felt discarded.

As for the priest that encouraged me to go, I will not be having anymore contact with him. Long story.

I do however have a different person who is going to intervine between myself and my pp. What will become of it, I don’t know. I am trying to keep an open mind.

This by far is the toughest journey I have ever been on. But like you said one step forward many back. I don’t know if I will ever reach a conclussion where I will find God, but for now I will take it day by day. That’s all I can do.

scared

…and hello to you too, Scared…thank you for replying.

I have been through something like what you describe…well I can recall the hell it was to get to Mass and the hell I went through to just stay there. My own problems in those directions have passed, along with the fear God did not exist at all…this is a feeling and fear in you, which cannot alter the reality of matters, that God does exist which is a matter of an act of will that feeling does not feel at all - quite and strongly to the contrary. Can you rest in that, although I know that ‘rest’ is completely the wrong word. If you can exercise your willpower over your feelings…this is an Act of Faith unsupported by any supports at all…a pure Act of Faith that is extremely painful to make I know. Humans are made to have feelings and it is terribly hard to act in anyway against them.
We are creatures of feelings…but love in essence is in the will…it is that committment when even feelings are absent or pulling against entirely the act of will, that commits anyway.

I hope you will be able to sort out matters with your pp…I tend to think this is at the heart of your problems. I still hve problems with my pp and do my best to avoid him. No courage to try to find out what his problem with me could be. He cannot be bothered hiding that he dislikes me intensely, although I have no idea at all why.

It sure sounds as if you are having a very rough time indeed and all credit to you for trying to hang in there…and if you can step my step daily as simply as possible is the way to go.
I have just now finished printing my personal intentions list and I have included you …I will spend time with that list daily.

May The Lord please bring you speedily relief from your sufferings.

Barb

 

[dave2]

I always attend lent/Easter services becouse is very important to me it is time for one to amend his or her life as journing on road life. So pls. want reach out to all of forum to complete their estter duty.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

dave2:

I always attend lent/Easter services becouse is very important to me it is time for one to amend his or her life as journing on road life. So pls. want reach out to all of forum to complete their estter duty.

Hi Dave2…important thoughts!

…and being a South Australian, wonderful to be talking to someone from Nigeria and a fellow Catholic…

Barb:wave:

 

[dave2]

pls.Dear Bars.if there is any in the journying of life in our catholic faih is to attend Lent/Easter service is important in the sence that one has to seek forgiveness of sins. Also in time to help the needy within your community by giving them food clothing and to encourage them not loose hope.so try as much as you to attend all lent/ ester services.Always work hard remain a good girl and stay bless. As me is previlage talking you. THANKS TO CATHOLIC ANSWERS FORUM. DAVE2 ABUJA NIG.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

dave2:

pls.Dear Bars.if there is any in the journying of life in our catholic faih is to attend Lent/Easter service is important in the sence that one has to seek forgiveness of sins. Also in time to help the needy within your community by giving them food clothing and to encourage them not loose hope.so try as much as you to attend all lent/ ester services.Always work hard remain a good girl and stay bless. As me is previlage talking you. THANKS TO CATHOLIC ANSWERS FORUM. DAVE2 ABUJA NIG.

Hi again Dave2…thank you for the sensitive Post and the important words of wisdom and encouragement in this time of Lent…and yes, thank you to Catholic Answers Forums too! I hope your own Lent will be rewarding and your Easter most joyous…

God’s Blessings on you, Dave…Barb, South Australia.

 

[scared]

Hello All:

I just thought I would give you an update.

For my families sake I continue to go to mass. However, I derive no pleasure or happiness from it. I don’t participate except to recieve the body of christ and that is only on the recommendation of a very learnied priest ( not my pp) and no I can’t go to him for pastoral care.

As for the diffiulties with my pp another person has informed him of what should be expected of him as a priest. It didn’t help, so I am not expecting any help or support from him with regards to spiritual care. I am on my own. If it wasn’t for my family I would inform our bishop of my intent and leave the catholic church and all it stands for.

So far no good has come from me staying.

scared

 

[dave2]

Well whatever the case may be, pls. for the sake of kingdom of God dont leave the it would do know good. becouse we are runing race for our enternity so be patient introduce yourself to yoursaef, put salf together once more and beyourself. The good lord would see you thruogh whatever the may be, and i personally would keep praying for all the time. it happens once in a while in the church.Finally pls you have to easy, the lord is your strenth

 

[Mike_O]

scared:

However, I derive no pleasure or happiness from it.

But the Mass is not about pleasure and happiness. It is about worshipping God. To be miserable but at Mass is far better for the soul then to happily miss Mass, disobey the obligation knowingly, and sin mortally. Take comfort in that knowledge, if nothing else.

If it wasn’t for my family I would inform our bishop of my intent and leave the catholic church and all it stands for.

Why is it that you excoriate “what the Church stands for” because you have a personal problem? What about your personal difficulties makes the Church’s teaching worthy of your scorn?

It seems as though the best thing you could do is find a spiritual director. You have seemed to dismiss that suggestion a number of times, to the point that one would think that this priest you have such trouble with is the only living Catholic director in a 300 mile radius.

Without knowing where you live, I would advise trying this website, where, with Internet connections, any excuse of being unable to drive to a meeting point vanishes:

catholicspiritualdirection.org/

So far no good has come from me staying.

Is the salvation of your immortal soul “no good” at all, or was this last spoken in unthinking discouragement?

If you do not mind the question, have you attempted to cultivate a deeper spirituality during this Lent?

Do you pray? Do you read the lives of the saints or other devotional books? Attend Stations of the Cross? Attend Adoration?

Obviously you have an Internet connection, so, for the part about spiritual reading, consider beginning to read some books. Here are a few in their entirety:

The Little Flowers of St. Francis

St. Josemaria Escriva’s “The Way”

Thomas a Kempis’s “The Imitation of Christ”

Excerpts from St. Faustina’s Revelations from Christ

St. Francis de Sales’ “Introduction to the Devout Life”

That should get you started.

Please do not interpret this as anything nasty, but your saying “Nothing good has come of it…only my family keeps me from leaving the Church and all it stands for…I derive no happiness from the Mass” contains a notable element of self-pity. Sometimes, for lack of a better phrase, one must “suck it up” and deal with the difficulty. It would be better not to elaborate your motivation for attending Mass merely as something for the good of your family and rather as something for the good of your own soul and for the love of God.

Go, pray, listen to the readings carefully, cultivate a desire to serve God, consider the holy blessing of the Blessed Sacrament…all of these things need not involve some profound, dramatic ecstasy of emotional well-being, nor do they even require a sense of happiness. Remember, love is an act of WILL. If you are there, you are making the act of will.

 

[scared]

Hello Mike O and Dave2:

dave2 if the lord is my strength then I am really really in trouble, he is no where to be found in my life.

MikeO said
But the Mass is not about pleasure and happiness. It is about worshipping God. To be miserable but at Mass is far better for the soul then to happily miss Mass, disobey the obligation knowingly, and sin mortally. Take comfort in that knowledge, if nothing else

Yes, Mike it is about worshipping God, however, you should have some sort inkling God is there. If you are angry and resentful at mass, it is better for you to be there. I have asked this very question of a very learned priest, his answer is if you come to mass angry and hard hearted what are you gaining? Nothing. The hardened heart will not allow the light of christ to enter. You only become more angry for having to be there, God doesn’t want to force anyone to enter his house, he wants them to come willingly.

Mike O said:Why is it that you excoriate “what the Church stands for” because you have a personal problem? What about your personal difficulties makes the Church’s teaching worthy of your scorn?

Well, Mike lets turn that around what makes my difficulties worthy of the Church’s scorn? And yes, being told to leave is the churh’s scorn.

MikeO I have looked into the option of a spiritual director. However, when I enquired I was told that my circumstances warrant a priest as a director further more it should be my pp. He is not willing to do that. I was even willing to see a lay spiritual director, I was told however, that they would not be helpful they simply don’t have what I need. In my situation I need to have the sacraments often. With a priest as a spiritual director I could attain that. But first I have to find the priest that is willing to invest his time and patience and so far that isn’t happening.

I did look at your link. It was interesting, however, not what I have been told I need.

You asked about the immortal soul. The state of my soul is already in deep jeopardy. Not going to mass isn’t going to make it and deeper in jeopardy.

MikeO said:
If you do not mind the question, have you attempted to cultivate a deeper spirituality during this Lent?

Do you pray? Do you read the lives of the saints or other devotional books? Attend Stations of the Cross? Attend Adoration?

How does one cultivate a deeper spirtuallity when there is nothing to cultivate? You asked if I pray, No I haven’t been able to do that for some time now. Which is very normal give the circumstances I am in. I have read many books some of the lives of the saints, some Lewis books. Attending Stations of the Cross and Adoration is not something I can do at present.

MikeO you can call it whatyou think it is self pitty. However, I will call it what I see and know it to be, a terrifying place for me to be. I have sucked it up for far to long. Now is the time to deal with it.
I go for the good of my families souls, they believe, love and adore God. I accept that for their sakes. I don’t have the right to say we arn’t going because I am scared. They have the right to go and worship.

If God is real and exists he then knows what I am going through, he knows the dark parts of my soul, he knows the terror I feel. Therefore he would understand, he is suppose to be all loving and ever powerful, if that is so why would he condemn me to eternal hell for trying over come my situation? I have taken steps to get help from the church, it doesn’t want to help, it doesn’t want to take the time to help me foster my doubts and possilby find God. Scripture says something about the shepard leaves his 99 to find the one lost sheep. That isn’t always the case, sometimes the one lost sheep stays lost and is consummed by other predators.Why because the shepard didn’t go out to find them. How often do you see a priest go an seek those who left and attempt to bring them home. I would think not often, for they are to busy tening to the 99 that are coming.

For now if I can only manage to go to mass for the sake of my family that is what I must do. I will attain no grace for going as I go with hardened heart.

scared