Attending Mass at a Calvinistic Church

[Lenten_ashes]

Father: I am curious to know how long you have been a priest, your age and if you have a parish. You are a Catholic priest? I have to say I am having a difficult time agreeing with you especially the statement that “this forum gives a very poor impression of Catholicism.”
What I see are faithful Catholics expressing the teachings of the Church. I’m also curious to know “what other ideas and concepts” you feel “have been outdated for decades.”

Yes i am not in agreement with that contention either.

Not everyone here knows the Catechism cover to cover, but as whole this site has a collection of kind and well informed Catholics. It wouldn’t have taken me a whole decade to convert if i had not encountered so many uninformed, nominal Catholics in person. The people on this site are not the problem, imo

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I have been invited to attend a Protestant service indirectly by a notice in the church bulletin.

I feel obligated to attend, but I cannot drive, so I will try my best. It’s actually in walking distance, I will some show find my way.

Have you been to a Calvinistic church before? I’m sure there not much different, All I am expected to do is to act respectfuly.

I came from a Presbyterian background, and Presbyterians are Calvinist based. Mind you there are variations on “how” Calvinistic their pastors and members are likely to be, just as there are right wing and left wing Catholics. Same birds, different feathers.

For a start it won’t be called a “mass” but a “service”. We only had communion quarterly, but it was a solemn affair, and taken seriously. While the Lord would not be present in the “elements”, you can bet your bottom dollar He was looking on with interest. He’d certainly have been present in the church.

I wouldn’t be frightened of going, but that’s partly because I came from a Presbyterian background. I did go to a 75th anniversary service of my old church a couple of years ago, and it was good to catch up with some old faces, and a few more new ones. I even had an amicable discussion about my move to the Catholic Church with someone.

I suppose I could say you need to watch out for ultra hard-line Calvinists who might be present, or those who might think you’re not “saved”, but I suspect that for the notice to even be in your church letter, your priest has allowed that to happen, and is at least on working terms with the pastor of the other church.

So if you’re going to go, participate by all means but don’t take communion. Also bear in mind they take Christ as seriously as you do. If anything, I’d say overall that Protestants tend to be a bit more enthusiastic than Catholics, if not necessarily more sincere.

 

[paperwight66]

Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I think Catholics are permitted to attend non-catholic masses just so long as they do not take communion.

Apart from High Church Anglicans (and I gather, Lutherans - I don’t know personally, because there are very few in the UK) non-Catholics would not call their services ‘Mass’ even if they were Communion services.
In fact, some would be really bothered, and even offended. Hardline non-Catholics misunderstand Mas, and see it as sacrificing Jesus all over again and so a blasphemy.

It’s really not right to refer to non-Catholic services as Mass.

 

[rcwitness]

If Father did not suggest that it does, why did you feel it necessary to bring it up in relation to his post? Another poster had already spoken about attending a UMC service but going to Mass to fulfill the obligation.

Because the references Fr Don provided were about ecumenism, but not specifically about lay Catholics attending Sunday services.

As others have mentioned, I also know of Catholics attending these services both as a substitute for Mass and leaving Catholic Communion all together.

 

[GKC]

Father: I am curious to know how long you have been a priest, your age and if you have a parish. You are a Catholic priest? I have to say I am having a difficult time agreeing with you especially the statement that “this forum gives a very poor impression of Catholicism.”
What I see are faithful Catholics expressing the teachings of the Church. I’m also curious to know “what other ideas and concepts” you feel “have been outdated for decades.”

Fr. Ruggero has posted insight into his curriculum vitae before, and it is a quite impressive one. I’d like to see it again, myself. I find his posts interesting, almost without exception.

 

[Tomyris]

The people on this site are not the problem, imo

Some of the behavior of so-called lay apologists on this site has been a factor in driving me away from the Catholic Church. I asked myself if I wanted to take on the snide, superior attitude of many of the ex-Protestants who spend a lot of time sneering at their old faith and patting themselves on the back for becoming Catholic. While many of them have gotten banned, there are still a few around. And there are cradle Catholics who are hostile to Protestants. There are also many who would give you the impression they know something about Catholicism but know only enough to be dangerous. There is the joke about the Methodist minister who passed out “First Baptist Church” bumper stickers to his congregation. When asked why, he told them he had seen them drive and didn’t want anyone to know they went to his church.

This site would be greatly improved if they required someone to pass a knowledge test before he or she slapped a ‘Catholic’ label on their profile. It is hard for outsiders to know who truly represents a Catholic viewpoint and who is misleading people.

 

[Picky_Picky]

Some of the behavior of so-called lay apologists on this site has been a factor in driving me away from the Catholic Church. I asked myself if I wanted to take on the snide, superior attitude of many of the ex-Protestants who spend a lot of time sneering at their old faith and patting themselves on the back for becoming Catholic. While many of them have gotten banned, there are still a few around. And there are cradle Catholics who are hostile to Protestants. There are also many who would give you the impression they know something about Catholicism but know only enough to be dangerous. There is the joke about the Methodist minister who passed out “First Baptist Church” bumper stickers to his congregation. When asked why, he told them he had seen them drive and didn’t want anyone to know they went to his church.

This site would be greatly improved if they required someone to pass a knowledge test before he or she slapped a ‘Catholic’ label on their profile. It is hard for outsiders to know who truly represents a Catholic viewpoint and who is misleading people.

Not necessarily trying to mislead, though. Isn’t it possible for the Catholic Church to encompass people with differing viewpoints? And would we all have to pass knowledge tests to justify our labels? How would I fare?

 

[Picky_Picky]

Fr. Ruggero has posted insight into his curriculum vitae before, and it is a quite impressive one. I’d like to see it again, myself. I find his posts interesting, almost without exception.

They are, but I have sympathy with some of those he chastises. There is a problem here for Catholics who believe the Church cannot err, and are then told some of its teachings have been superannuated.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Some of the behavior of so-called lay apologists on this site has been a factor in driving me away from the Catholic Church. I asked myself if I wanted to take on the snide, superior attitude of many of the ex-Protestants who spend a lot of time sneering at their old faith and patting themselves on the back for becoming Catholic. While many of them have gotten banned, there are still a few around. And there are cradle Catholics who are hostile to Protestants. There are also many who would give you the impression they know something about Catholicism but know only enough to be dangerous. There is the joke about the Methodist minister who passed out “First Baptist Church” bumper stickers to his congregation. When asked why, he told them he had seen them drive and didn’t want anyone to know they went to his church.

This site would be greatly improved if they required someone to pass a knowledge test before he or she slapped a ‘Catholic’ label on their profile. It is hard for outsiders to know who truly represents a Catholic viewpoint and who is misleading people.

I’m very sorry to hear that.

Have you ever posted on carm.org, “Roman Catholic” forum?? This site is heavenly in comparison to that place. Every thread looks like a Jerry Springer show and the anti-Catholic moderation allows all the mocking and ridicule, in fact, seems to promote it. And if a Catholic responds with even a pinch of snideness to their insults, they get banned.

So I guess witnessing that sort of stuff has desensitized me a bit to whatever goes on here, because it’s so mild in comparison from my experience.

Hopefully you stick around here. Report ugliness when necessary.

God bless

 

[GKC]

They are, but I have sympathy with some of those he chastises. There is a problem here for Catholics who believe the Church cannot err, and are then told some of its teachings have been superannuated.

I know, and well said. And Fr. R is, in some ways, a little more …Je ne sais quoi…rigorous?.. for my conservative tastes. But he knows his stuff, it seems to me.

 

[GKC]

Not necessarily trying to mislead, though. Isn’t it possible for the Catholic Church to encompass people with differing viewpoints? And would we all have to pass knowledge tests to justify our labels? How would I fare?

I forget your label, but if it’s what I suspect, you pass. I don’t have a label, but if I did, I would pass, also. Personal opinion.

 

[rcwitness]

They are, but I have sympathy with some of those he chastises. There is a problem here for Catholics who believe the Church cannot err, and are then told some of its teachings have been superannuated.

That’s a good observation. But I do realize that Church Teaching is sometimes represented in documents that have many levels of Truth, and that some of its applications are subject to change. And that’s why a balanced approach is better than a one sided criticism.

It seems to me, that Catholic Ecumenism should not leave others with the impression that it is good to remain in denominations which deny the Catholic Eucharist and authority of the see of Rome.

We certainly can find common ground and acknowledge unity based on our common faith and Baptism. And we don’t need to beat a horse to death.

 

[rcwitness]

I forget your label, but if it’s what I suspect, you pass. I don’t have a label, but if I did, I would pass, also. Personal opinion.

I have a good feeling that if my label was Protestant, I would receive more approval and flattery from certain posters.

 

[GKC]

I have a good feeling that if my label was Protestant, I would receive more approval and flattery from certain posters.

Could be.

But content of posts rates higher with me than labels.

 

[rcwitness]

But content of posts rates higher with me than labels.

And from seeing your posts over the yrs, I don’t doubt that.

I do think that one’s faith tradition is more than a mere label. It represents what a person believes, and the leadership who provides what they consider accurately bringing Christ to them.

 

[Magdalena59]

I really don’t get this. It seems fearful and unreasonable to me. If the Eucharist is so wonderful, why would people leave it? Why did you leave? If living without the Eucharist was so awful, why didn’t you come back sooner?

It breaks my heart when I hear of Catholics leaving the Church. It’s one of the reasons I’m finally making a serious attempt to enter myself in spite of my remaining heterodoxies. I don’t want to enable people leaving the Catholic Church in any way. (One of my students at my former institution was a Catholic and wound up becoming Episcopalian. I had put out information on my office door about my Episcopal parish, intending it for Protestant students without a strong church affiliation who might be interested in something more liturgical. The one student who saw it and became seriously interested was a Catholic. I tried to talk her out of leaving the Catholic Church, but I recognize that my example probably spoke louder than my words.) But I don’t think slamming the windows shut so they can’t see what is attractive outside is the answer.

Edwin

I am with you. It breaks my heart that I left and it breaks my heart that people are leaving.

Like most others who grew up in the 1970’s I was very poorly catechized and I left because I did not know what the Eucharist was. I did not know that it was the Eucharist I was missing until I happened into a Catholic church and sat there quietly in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist. It seems to me when I speak to or hear of others who are reverts, coming back to the Catholic church, they are very frequently my age and coming from that era.

I left because I did not understand the Mass or Catholicism at all. I came back after much research and study. I, also began turning back to the Catholic church and learning what it truly taught when I realized I could not no longer defend protestant theology with scripture or Christian history. As I look back there are steps all along the way, particular moments of inspiration, that Christ brought me a long to bring me home.

As I have come back I have met others who are like me who are returning but there are still those out there who are in the Catholic church but do not understand or believe what it teaches and so leave. Also, we live in a secular world today and many families reject Christianity all together and so many are growing up without God. Plus the influence of the world through music, tv and internet is turning many youth away from Christianity altogether. If people knew what the Eucharist was they would not leave but unfortunately as I used to not know, they still do not know.

I am very glad to hear you are coming into the Catholic Church. I want to welcome you.
I guess I can just say the same thing a very good Catholic said to me when I came back and that is to remember in the Catholic church there are sinners and problems also. The important thing is coming home.

Being in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is the best place to be in this world.

 

[exnihilo]

Some of the behavior of so-called lay apologists on this site has been a factor in driving me away from the Catholic Church. I asked myself if I wanted to take on the snide, superior attitude of many of the ex-Protestants who spend a lot of time sneering at their old faith and patting themselves on the back for becoming Catholic. While many of them have gotten banned, there are still a few around. And there are cradle Catholics who are hostile to Protestants. There are also many who would give you the impression they know something about Catholicism but know only enough to be dangerous. There is the joke about the Methodist minister who passed out “First Baptist Church” bumper stickers to his congregation. When asked why, he told them he had seen them drive and didn’t want anyone to know they went to his church.

This site would be greatly improved if they required someone to pass a knowledge test before he or she slapped a ‘Catholic’ label on their profile. It is hard for outsiders to know who truly represents a Catholic viewpoint and who is misleading people.

I’m sorry if the behavior of some has driven you away. But if so I think you should reconsider the matter. You specifically mention converts, of which I am one, having a superior attitude. While certainly we should be mindful of how we interact with people anyone who converts to Catholicism, or for that matter converts out of Catholicism, is doing so because they believe they have substituted a less true faith (meaning one with error) for a truer faith. In fact they have converted to what they think is the truest faith. Who converts to the second most true faith? Why would you be surprised that someone is passionate about that conversion? For all the ecumenical talk the Protestant churches all set themselves up as authentic teachers against the Catholic Church. No group is saying we may have the right interpretation and the other guys may as well. It is only natural to have some sense of superiority about the group to which you belong because you must in fact believe it to be superior or else why join it. That Catholics fail to keep pride in check is an obvious enough truth from the contentious fact the Church dogmatically teaches priests can forgive sins in confession.

I don’t disagree there are plenty of Catholics who don’t fully know the faith. I am one of them.
I don’t disagree that you’ll find Catholics who disagree on aspects of the faith. That is why the Church has been calling councils from the earliest days, the Council of Jerusalem, until modern day, Vatican II. I don’t see how lack of knowledge distinguishes Catholics. You’ll find a lack of knowledge in any group of people including in any broad group of members of a religious group. For that matter any group which includes children is necessarily going to have members who don’t know their faith.

 

[Tomyris]

I’m very sorry to hear that.

Have you ever posted on carm.org, “Roman Catholic” forum?? This site is heavenly in comparison to that place. Every thread looks like a Jerry Springer show and the anti-Catholic moderation allows all the mocking and ridicule, in fact, seems to promote it. And if a Catholic responds with even a pinch of snideness to their insults, they get banned.

As a test of whether I had a solid case for converting, I spent 6 months defending the Catholic Church over there. I have not posted over there as Tomyris. I got insulted, and moderated, of course, and my conclusion was that they were disappointingly unhelpful. There are some Catholics over there who are admirably restrained.

It’s been cleaned up since then - a number of Protestant people I interacted with have been banned over there. Sometimes I go read threads there but it is usually stuff I am familiar with, so much so that I have not been over there in a long time.

So I guess witnessing that sort of stuff has desensitized me a bit to whatever goes on here, because it’s so mild in comparison from my experience.

Hopefully you stick around here. Report ugliness when necessary.

God bless

They moderate ugliness here. I wish they would go after misrepresenting the Catholic faith. People are actually getting in the way of the intent of the place.

 

[Magdalena59]

The pontificate of Pius XI is far removed from where the Church is today.

This has been superannuated.

Thanks be to God.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[MichaelP3]

Some of the behavior of so-called lay apologists on this site has been a factor in driving me away from the Catholic Church. I asked myself if I wanted to take on the snide, superior attitude of many of the ex-Protestants who spend a lot of time sneering at their old faith and patting themselves on the back for becoming Catholic. While many of them have gotten banned, there are still a few around. And there are cradle Catholics who are hostile to Protestants. There are also many who would give you the impression they know something about Catholicism but know only enough to be dangerous. There is the joke about the Methodist minister who passed out “First Baptist Church” bumper stickers to his congregation. When asked why, he told them he had seen them drive and didn’t want anyone to know they went to his church.

This site would be greatly improved if they required someone to pass a knowledge test before he or she slapped a ‘Catholic’ label on their profile. It is hard for outsiders to know who truly represents a Catholic viewpoint and who is misleading people.

Could not agree more.

I considered converting to Catholicism when I was dating my Catholic girlfriend a while back (now my wife). I can’t credit CAF for driving me away initially but I can surely say numerous members on CAF are just ensuring more and more the fact that I will never look into it again.

On the other hand, the posters on the non-Catholic threads are quite “nice” if you compare them the the posters I have encountered after naively venturing into the “Apologetic’s” forum.

But back to relating to your post. We all can google Catholic things and don’t need to rely on information from posters here. Its the rather the way they present them here which intrigues me.

Regards