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ProVobis
Guest
So would leaving voice mail suffice?
Also, I would think receiving communion to fulfill your Easter duty obligation would not have to be at a Sunday Mass or even at any Mass at all.
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Also, I would think receiving communion to fulfill your Easter duty obligation would not have to be at a Sunday Mass or even at any Mass at all.
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TrueLight
Guest
Well, as a result of this thread, I just called my diocese and I now know my geographical parish. I won’t be attending mass there though.
They told me that technically, I should register there, but in reality, I can register at any parish.
They told me that technically, I should register there, but in reality, I can register at any parish.
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TrueLight
Guest
What role do personal parishes play?
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dans0622
Guest
Hello Mr. Aliano,
It seems you are attributing to the Code of Canon Law “archaic” demands which are not present. In an earlier post, you said
There is no norm in Canon Law that says such attendance is “unacceptable.”
The law of the Church wants Catholics to receive the Sacraments/Sacramentals as frequently and easily as possible. Accordingly, the law’s requirements on the faithful as to *where *they do this are very few. I can’t think of any such legal “requirements” at the moment but there might be some. Anyway, if there are any, none relate to attending Mass.
Legal requirements concerning the place of the administration of Sacraments almost always center on the minister, not the recipient; i.e., for certain Sacraments to be valid, the minister has to be in his territory and a parish priest (pastor) is **obligated **to provide for the spiritual welfare of all who are domiciled in his territory. Such a limitation on a priest’s obligations is necessary for the sake of efficient pastoral service, good order and the natural restrictions on any one person’s time, if nothing else. (This might indirectly place some restrictions on the faithful, if the priest is a stickler for domicile details.) That being said, I know of no parish priest who checks the address of those who are in need of immediate Sacramental assistance and denies “foreigners” the Sacraments or prevents “foreigners” from entering his church for Mass. If a priest did this, it would be grave, spiritual malpractice.
There is no legal justification for refusing admittance to Mass solely because of domicile and there is no legal requirement for anyone to attend Mass at the parish church of their domicile. Nevertheless, all things considered, it is best to frequent your territorial parish/priest whenever possible.
Thanks for your time.
Dan
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dans0622
Guest
Hello,
I don’t know. There is no such requirement anymore and I don’t know if there was voice mail when the 1917 Code was in force. I suppose any sort of notification would have gotten the job done.
Dan
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chaunceygardner
Guest
The issue may not be that a different standard applies, but that people are just not aware of the standard. If people who join parishes other than the one that serves their neighborhood or community, it is because the parishes (and the priests in them) allow it. This is another anecdote, or at least a personal observation, but with the merging and closing of parishes, I am seeing this happening more frequently. For example, when the three parishes in my community were merged into one, the remaining church was located at the opposite end of our town. So, some of the people who had belonged to one of those three parishes joined a parish where the church was closer (or perhaps for other reasons). In my immediate neighborhood, there are a few people who belong to the “territorial” merged parish, and there are others who joined the “closer” parish.
Still others chose neither and joined other parishes farther away. One retired couple moved into our neighborhood but remained members of the church they had belonged to for many years, which was about 5 miles away. Others who live near me belong to parishes farther away. And on and on and on. With all that is happening in parish re-alignment, it is difficult to use territorial boundaries anymore.
Even 35 plus years ago, we moved into a neighborhood that was half way between two churches. We asked if we could join the parish outside our territory, and the pastor of the church whose parish we were in said “Go right ahead”. About ten years later when we moved again a similar situation existed and we were able to join the “other” parish without a problem (they had a great religious ed. and youth programs for our kids).
None of the priests I have talked to over the years (and it is quite a large number) have ever said that it was necessary to belong to a “territorial” parish. All they wanted was that Catholics join and become part of a parish community. But none defined that community geographically.
One final point. In my grandparents and parents time, there were many ethnic parishes. The small town where my grandparents lived had four, maybe five, Catholic churches. One was the German Catholic parish, another was the Polish Catholic, another primarily French Catholic. In other places there were Italian and Irish Catholic churches. I recall going to Mass with my grandparents and passing another Catholic church on the way to “their” church, which was 3 blocks to the east of the one we passed. My grandparents belonged to the church that was part of their ethnic heritage, not to the one that was closest to their home.
So despite Canon law, it is apparent that people tend to choose the parish they feel most comfortable in, whether it is due to the priest, the liturgy, parish life, ethnic heritage, or the people of that parish community. Whatever the reason, it should be a parish where they feel they can truly “belong”.
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TrueLight
Guest
How about those who only attend the EF and there is no EF in the area. Is there not an allowance for that?
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dans0622
Guest
Hello,
Canon 518 speaks of personal parishes. Once established, they function just like territorial parishes and have the same purpose as territorial ones. Pastors of personal parishes have the same rights and obligations as territorial ones. The only difference is that a personal parish is established for the sake of *certain *Catholics in a territory instead of *all *Catholics in a territory. Even personal parishes, then, also must have some territorial boundary–the diocesan boundary, if nothing else.
Personal parishes are the only ones where “registration” has any canonical meaning since that is the way to certainly know who is a member and the way for the pastor to actually know who his “subjects” are. This is essential when it comes to the priests at such parishes assisting at marriages. At least one of the parties marrying must be his subject or the marriage is invalid because of a defect of form (c. 1110). Registration is a good way of making it clear who is/is not a subject. So, if I was you (I think you attend an FSSP parish), I’d register there and not at any territorial parish.
When I was in school, I often went to an FSSP parish that was on the border of two dioceses. It was total, territorial and “subjective” chaos. But, they seemed to manage somehow.
Dan
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TrueLight
Guest
I primarily attend a diocesan parish that has a strong TLM community most of the time for daily and Sunday masses. I am registered there. It is not near me, but it is quite accessible.
Once a month, I attend the FSSP parish which is nowhere near me. I would actually love to register there as well, but I would hesitate to make that my official parish, because what if I have an emergency or even if I die? Or even if I were to marry. I can’t expect everyone to travel 2.5 hours.
Are you saying that sacraments in parishes that are not your residential parish are not valid?
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dans0622
Guest
Hello again,
I imagine, then, that the parish you attend is not set up as a personal parish? Whatever the case may be, we are in the same boat as far as our parish registration goes. So, I think you’re in fine shape, canonically speaking. You should only be registered at one (personal) parish at a time.
Regarding validity, no! The only times validity is an issue is for some sacraments (marriage and confirmation and confession), sometimes (because of limitations in his faculties), when a priest is outside of his territory. The exception to this is for the priest at a personal parish who, even though he is in his church but because neither the man or woman getting married is his subject (a member of that personal parish), he would not have the faculty to witness their marriage.
Territory never has anything to do with the validity of Mass or the valid reception of Holy Communion.
Dan
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TrueLight
Guest
That’s what I’m concerned about because I am going to be confirmed soon. I was told I can get confirmed wherever I want.
But that has never be brought up as an issue at either parish.
Maybe to be safe, I’ll ask the Pastor to contact my local parish. My local parish didn’t seem to care if I did it elsewhere based on the phone call I had with them today.
I can understand being assigned to a local parish but I seriously don’t think most churches/pastors care about that these days.
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dans0622
Guest
If you are being confirmed by a bishop, territory does not matter for validity (c. 886). If you are being confirmed by a priest, as long as he is in his territory, he validly confirms anyone (c. 887).That’s what I’m concerned about because I am going to be confirmed soon. I was told I can get confirmed wherever I want.
But that has never be brought up as an issue at either parish.
Maybe to be safe, I’ll ask the Pastor to contact my local parish. My local parish didn’t seem to care if I did it elsewhere based on the phone call I had with them today.
I can understand being assigned to a local parish but I seriously don’t think most churches/pastors care about that these days.
I think we could presume that whoever is confirming you can confirm you.
Dan
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FrDavid96
Guest
That’s because technically, registration means nothing.
If you choose not to attend your own parish (as you’ve just stated) you can certainly do it this way—and I’m not trying to convince you to change that. Just be aware that there might be issues in the future that you’re not anticipating. And you do need to be aware at least that parish membership is defined by territory–what you do with that information is up to you.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Dans0622 already explained that you don’t need to worry about jurisdiction when it comes to your own upcoming confirmation. The bishop has jurisdiction over his entire diocese territory and if there is some matter to be resolved if the priest is confirming, you can be confident that he’s handling that.That’s what I’m concerned about because I am going to be confirmed soon. I was told I can get confirmed wherever I want.
But that has never be brought up as an issue at either parish.
Maybe to be safe, I’ll ask the Pastor to contact my local parish. My local parish didn’t seem to care if I did it elsewhere based on the phone call I had with them today.
I can understand being assigned to a local parish but I seriously don’t think most churches/pastors care about that these days.
The part that does concern me though is the comment at the end: “I seriously don’t think most churches/pastors care about that these days.”
That causes me a lot of concern. Here’s the problem. We have a handful of people here on CAF offering personal opinion and personal experiences and presenting these for anyone with an internet connection to read. What certain people just do not realize (and I don’t mean you when I say this; I’m not trying to make something more out of what you said) or just refuse to admit is that their own personal experiences do not override the Church’s canon law.
It has the potential to cause a lot of very real harm to people when posters come here and to a greater or lesser degree, encourage people to disregard canon law and do as they please. There are posters here who just “don’t get it” that their own personal experiences are just that–personal experiences and nothing more. There could very well (and most likely there are) people who are going through some difficult times now or in the future with regard to parish membership because they choose to listen to the voice of personal anecdotes (“I do it this way and it’s NEVER a problem…”) instead of listening to the voice of the Church as expressed in the canons.
I do with that participants here (and non-posting readers) would realize that when some issue arises and the local priest/parish is indeed following canon law and says “you have to go to your own proper parish for this” there will be no appeal (none whatsoever) to an internet forum to overturn that. No one will be able to go to the priest and say “such-and-such a screen-name on CAF told me that no one follows canon law on this, therefore I expect you to follow suit.” That won’t help one iota, and I just wish that certain people could see this and realize what potential problems they’re causing for others by encouraging them to disregard canon law.
O
odile53
Guest
I just went to the diocesan website and looked for “parish boundaries.”
The first link took me to the abuse prevention program.
The second one took me to a Google Earth map. Not much help, I’m afraid, since the map confirmed my original mileage estimates, and I don’t even know if parish territory boundaries are based on proximity, or may follow some other format (the way congressional districts are.) Also disconcerting was the fact that there were two other parishes identified, which are now closed. The diocesan site was last updated in 2009, and since then we’ve had a spate of church closings and parish consolidations.
If you walk into a church office and announce that you want to register at the parish, nobody tells you that you are supposed to be registering someplace else. That concerns me a little, too. My husband is Lutheran and most of my living family are cafeteria Catholics. If I were to predecease them, and all they knew was that I was registered at St. XYZ, I wouldn’t want them trying to figure out where my funeral Mass could be said if a future pastor said that St. XYZ was not my proper parish.
I’m in good health and not planning to kick the bucket anytime soon, but life itself is uncertain. So I guess I will have to give the diocese a call Monday to find out for sure where I’m supposed to be registered. They’re closed for the weekend now.
The first link took me to the abuse prevention program.
The second one took me to a Google Earth map. Not much help, I’m afraid, since the map confirmed my original mileage estimates, and I don’t even know if parish territory boundaries are based on proximity, or may follow some other format (the way congressional districts are.) Also disconcerting was the fact that there were two other parishes identified, which are now closed. The diocesan site was last updated in 2009, and since then we’ve had a spate of church closings and parish consolidations.
If you walk into a church office and announce that you want to register at the parish, nobody tells you that you are supposed to be registering someplace else. That concerns me a little, too. My husband is Lutheran and most of my living family are cafeteria Catholics. If I were to predecease them, and all they knew was that I was registered at St. XYZ, I wouldn’t want them trying to figure out where my funeral Mass could be said if a future pastor said that St. XYZ was not my proper parish.
I’m in good health and not planning to kick the bucket anytime soon, but life itself is uncertain. So I guess I will have to give the diocese a call Monday to find out for sure where I’m supposed to be registered. They’re closed for the weekend now.
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TrueLight
Guest
Yes, I am being confirmed by a bishop.
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TrueLight
Guest
Okay. My apologies.
I retract that statement and if I did, I certainly didn’t mean to come across as any sort of authority.
I offer this disclaimer: That is just my experience. Those who are concerned, ask your pastor or diocesan office.
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TrueLight
Guest
One more question. Even if I’m being confirmed by the bishop of a different diocese?Yes, I am being confirmed by a bishop.
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w_s_s
Guest
A couple of things came to mind while reading this thread that I don’t believe have been fully addressed. I think i’m correct here, but if not, I guess Fr David will correct me
- You don’t have to register with your territorial parish. You are automatically a member of that parish and have rights with regard to the sacraments, etc, whether you register or not, unless…
- You register at a personal parish which you are qualified to join. In that case, registration changes your legal parish to the personal parish and your proper pastor to the pastor (and his successors) of the personal parish.
- Apart from the above exception, registration at a parish is has no effect in law and is merely a tool for keeping track of who is a regular attendee of the parish, who might expect to receive the sacraments there, and who might be expected to support the parish financially.
- Not everyone can join a personal parish. For example, I know that membership in some personal parishes is restricted to only those who reside in the diocese in which the parish has been erected. I suspect that is true of all personal parishes erected by diocesan bishops. Other persons may “register” in the nonbinding sense mentioned in #3, but not in the canonically meaningful sense in #2.
- A member of a personal parish in the sense of #2, who moves house without losing the qualification for membership in that parish (i.e., moves within the same diocese) remains a member of that parish.
- A member of a personal parish in the sense of #2, who becomes unqualified to be a member of that parish (i.e. by moving out of the diocese), ceases to be a member of that parish and becomes a member of his new territorial parish.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
A Catholic can attend any valid Mass anywhere. So certainly you can attend at a parish that offers the EF. The cannonical issue is that no matter where you attend or where you register, you belong to your territorial parish.
Obviously, as has been shown on this thread by several people, someone can attend and become involved at one parish to the exclusion of their territorial parish for many different reasons.
In the case of the OP however, a young couple just begininng their family, it behooves them to attend their local parish because that is the community they live in. If their children attend the parish church, then their friends will also be neighbors. There are many advantages to having your circle of school, neighborhood, and church friends overlap - for children as well as adults.
The OP also didn’t state any reason like the EF Mass, or Mass in a specific language, as a reason for staying at the farther away parish.
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