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Mrs_Sally
Guest
Truelight, Iām confused, I thought you were already confirmed this past Easter?Yes, I am being confirmed by a bishop.
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w_s_s
Guest
Are you allowed to get confirmed at Easter without going through RCIA?Truelight, Iām confused, I thought you were already confirmed this past Easter?
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dans0622
Guest
In order to be** licit**, the bishop should at least have the āreasonably presumed permissionā of the diocesan bishop of the place (c. 886). I think you can reasonably presume the the confirming bishop has this permission. Even if he didnāt, itās valid.
Dan
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TrueLight
Guest
Thanks.
Sorry, Sally. My life is always complicated. Nothing simple.Truelight, Iām confused, I thought you were already confirmed this past Easter?
The date I joined this website is the date I began to learn the truth about Catholicism, By the first week of Lent, I knew that I wanted to convert. Praise be to God, but it was too late for me to join RCIA.
However later on in my journey, I was able to receive one-on-one instruction from an FSSP priest. I had been already validly baptized as a Baptist. When the priest felt I was ready, I was received in the Church in September 2011 through the traditional rite of reception.
My confirmation will be in a few months, God willing.
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quiet52
Guest
I agree with Bob. I understand Father Davidās concerns, but I suspect that enforcement of the canon law he recited varies from diocese to diocese. In my diocese, there is one area with a growing population of Catholics, and those pastors might need to be more mindful about who is served, but in most of the diocese, Mass attendance and parish memberships have been dropping drastically and pastors certainly wonāt turn anyone away. There is no geographical map (with streets) on the diocesan website, other than a sketch of the vicariates. If this was an important issue the bishop wants Catholics to know about, then the information should be made available. It shouldnāt be incumbent upon an individual to research or beg for the information.
I live halfway between two parish churches and long ago one of the pastors didnāt even know what the boundary is (I never asked the other pastor). I chose a parish, got involved, but eventually decided to join a third parish for the sake of my spiritual health. I got tired of the liturgical abuses and hearing about how the Church should ordain women. I also wanted to share my talents and wasnāt allowed to because of the cliquish nature of the parish. My current parish relies on me in a number of ways. I have no doubt the last rites and a funeral Mass will be available at the parish I offer my services and financial support.
I also think it is unrealistic to expect someone to change parishes simply because they move; especially if it means leaving the parish in a lurch by quitting a ministry or parish outreach.
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BettyBoop416
Guest
I currently attend an ethnic (Italian) parish that is not within the territorial parish where I live. Iāve attend there for years. My question isā¦how āItalianā do I have to be to be considered a real member there? (Iām sure there were some Italians in my background, but they were pretty far back.)
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dochawk
Guest
I grew up in San Jose before that diocese was raised, while it was still ārawā Archdioces of San Francisco. Crossing a parish line for Mass was considered very serious; you better havea good reason (the only time we ever did was for evening Mass when weād been camping).The only exceptions to the above would be what the Church calls āpersonal parishes.ā No, that doesnāt mean āsomeoneās private propertyā despite the name
In San Diego, there was a church up the street and around the corner, until I moved to El Cajon near the gal I was dating (now my wife), still easy.
Here in Las Vegas,the RC church is less than half a mile down the street, again easy.
But then I went to Ames, IA for grad school. One regular parish, and another primarily for the University, but also (I think) established as a parish. We went to the latter at first, until it sunk in that the othe had the school, and our kids were reaching that age. Now thT I ink of it, it seems to me that the university was either excluded or. Included in both; I forget. Still, our kids would be there, so we got involved there.
Then came DuBois, PA.
St. Catherine of Siena literally a block from St. Joseph; you could toss a rock or ball from one to the other (it was the short side of the block). about thre blocks away was St. Michaelās). No more RC churches in any direction for many miles (Nativity of the Mother of God was kind of tucked behind St. Michaelās; I found the East when I was wrong about Mass time at St. Michaelās one Sunday when the kids were sick).
Anyway all three RC churches were ethnic parishes (St. Catherineās was Irish, the first. Built; St. Josephās Lithunian; and St. Michaelās Polish). St. Catherineās had the school, and was closest to us ( by a couple hundred feet
).Now Iām back home, and in an EC parish. I pass my former RC parish, an RC mission (Vietnamese, and functionally a parish)ā andW sometimes another RC church on my way.
Iād love to know our parish bundries, if theyāv even formally defined
.The state of Nevada, perhaps?
Our Eparchy (diocese) is roughly the western half of the US (we have 3 bishops for the easteqrn half, or at least our supposed to; after a two year vacancy, or metropolitan see is being filled by the bishop of Passaic, which will leave it vacant . . .).
While there is another parish in our Eparchy 8 or 10 miles away, it is of a different rite and in our care. Thereās a parish about 350 miles SE in San DWiego, one in Van Nuys about 250 or 300 miles roughly W, our cathedral in Phounex about 300 or so SE, anther past that in Tucson . . ., about 500 miles NW in Sacramento . . .
hawk
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Hopemercy
Guest
An interesting thread.
We live in Ireland where parishes and indeed dioceses are tiny.
ā¦Recently when there was reason to contact the diocesan office, we were shocked to be asked if we are even Catholic as we do not attend the .parish church. Seemingly the local priest has made a complaintā¦ We have met him onlyā¦once when he called as we were moving in. Overe 18 months agoā¦
As I explained to the secrtary, I have a major medical issue; allergies and a damaged immune sytsem, that makes attendance at a crowded Sunday Mass a dangerā¦Also bad heatth. means that any attempted activity is totally unreliableā¦
As I said to the secretary, that is what our fine radio masses are for!As are live massed o
And if I am out midweek eg shopping or a medical appointment etc, I try to get to a quiet .midweek mass, when I stay. outside until time for communion.
Often that is in another diocese.
What made me very sad was that that had been said over a year ago and noone had even tried to find out why; simply accusedā¦;
I do the very best I can in my .situation and spend many hours a day and more when sleep eludes me, at nightā¦
Canon law?
We live in Ireland where parishes and indeed dioceses are tiny.
ā¦Recently when there was reason to contact the diocesan office, we were shocked to be asked if we are even Catholic as we do not attend the .parish church. Seemingly the local priest has made a complaintā¦ We have met him onlyā¦once when he called as we were moving in. Overe 18 months agoā¦
As I explained to the secrtary, I have a major medical issue; allergies and a damaged immune sytsem, that makes attendance at a crowded Sunday Mass a dangerā¦Also bad heatth. means that any attempted activity is totally unreliableā¦
As I said to the secretary, that is what our fine radio masses are for!As are live massed o
And if I am out midweek eg shopping or a medical appointment etc, I try to get to a quiet .midweek mass, when I stay. outside until time for communion.
Often that is in another diocese.
What made me very sad was that that had been said over a year ago and noone had even tried to find out why; simply accusedā¦;
I do the very best I can in my .situation and spend many hours a day and more when sleep eludes me, at nightā¦
Canon law?
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MissRose73
Guest
I asked a similar question of a priest recently, and here is his reply back to me via a social media website:
Which parish should I register as a member at? The one of my childhood and where my parents still go (and sometimes I do)? The one closest to my work and easiest for me to attend on Saturday evenings where I have been going more to lately? The one closest to my home but furthest from work? I have to work on Sundays for my job so Sunday mornings I canāt go but Saturday evening is best for meā¦
*Good question. Not easy at all. Think of them as communities more than places and you might get to a little more clarity.
Which one do you most feel a part of the community of, and which one are you most likely to be able to contribute some of your limited time and treasure to? I think that might be the best question to ask yourself.
Anyway, maybe thatās a good direction to think in, because youāre certainly right that itās a tough call as it is!
God bless you and thanks for writing! Sorry to take FOREVER to respondā¦
Which parish should I register as a member at? The one of my childhood and where my parents still go (and sometimes I do)? The one closest to my work and easiest for me to attend on Saturday evenings where I have been going more to lately? The one closest to my home but furthest from work? I have to work on Sundays for my job so Sunday mornings I canāt go but Saturday evening is best for meā¦
*Good question. Not easy at all. Think of them as communities more than places and you might get to a little more clarity.
Which one do you most feel a part of the community of, and which one are you most likely to be able to contribute some of your limited time and treasure to? I think that might be the best question to ask yourself.
Anyway, maybe thatās a good direction to think in, because youāre certainly right that itās a tough call as it is!
God bless you and thanks for writing! Sorry to take FOREVER to respondā¦
- Father Shane
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TrueLight
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Perfect example of what I was trying to say when my hand was slapped. When is the Canon going to be updated again?
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MelissaCaritas
Guest
The new territorial parish does not have a school. The current parish does. Either way, it might be irrelevant - we might homeschool. If we do, it would most likely be in cooperation with some friends of ours (two couples - the six of us are very close).
I imagine most of my neighbors arenāt Catholic. When we move, I donāt think that would change. My children are more likely to be friends with the Catholic families we know and associate with outside of Mass than with people we see for a few minutes each week.
The advances of the last century have made it possible for Catholics to live great distances apart and still attend the same parish, rather than needing to live within walking distance of their local parish (and therefore each other). The fact that people sometimes live a 45-minute drive from where they work, often have friends scattered across town, plus family in other towns and statesā¦weāre no longer defining our communities by geography. God bless the internet, we donāt have to. Call it a good or a bad thing, but the people who happen to live on your street? You may or may not ever see them, speak to them, or have any part in their lives or you in theirs. (I should note here that it probably matters that my experiences have been drawn from two decades of living in Suburbia, both in TN and TX - other locations have a different culture with regard to neighborly interaction - Iām just speaking to my own experience, since itās my own situation that Iām trying to make a decision about). The people with whom I have formed a community are the people with whom I share interests and beliefs - proximity of residence is hardly on the list of reasons why Iām friends with these people. I do not believe that I have an obligation to become friends with people simply because they live near me.
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TrueLight
Guest
Good post.
Even as a Protestant, I never attended the church in my neighborhood and my family built strong bonds that are in existence today. My church community had always been comprised of the folks at such and such church, not the folks on such and such street.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Does an answer on a social media website take precedence over canon law? Thatās not just a rhetorical question. I mean it. Are you under the impression that his answer takes precedence over the law?
This is a good example of why priests (exactly because weāre trained in this sort of thing, and exactly because people should be able to trust our answers) should be giving the answers found in canon law, and not personal opinion that contradicts canon law.
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MelissaCaritas
Guest
She wasnāt asking which parish counted as her local parish according to Canon Law. She was asking where she should register (which you have said is basically meaningless).
By what youāve pointed to in Canon Law, I would assume that the parish closest to her home is her proper local parish. I think a situation like this one points to the fact that the Law is not fully capable of addressing every individualās situation, and it is therefore necessary to have provisions for exceptions, which the Law seems to have in abundance (because the Church is governed by Christ, Who is a pretty reasonable guy).
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Indyann
Guest
The boundaries of a parish are drawn up by the diocese. The parish closest to your home is not always your āterritorialā parish. When new parishes are founded, those boundaries might change due to increase or decrease of the population. Same if a parish is closed or consolidated.
Honestly, I have never met one Catholic who does not know in which parish they belong. It used to be, and in fact, still is around these parts that people introduce themselves by name and parish if in a group of Catholics.
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FrDavid96
Guest
My point there was not directed at you, but directed at the atmosphere I often see here on CAF.
What happens is that a handful of people post messages here saying things like ājust consider yourself a member wherever you pleaseā or āno one looks at that canon nowadaysā or āmy diocese website doesnāt list parish boundariesā (as if that last one is some indication that canon law isnāt being followed in that dioceseāgo figure) or āin my experience, this has never been an issue.ā Etc. etc.
Readers here (and many just read w/o posting) then come away with the false impression that this is the norm in the Catholic Church. Just because we see a certain pattern here on CAF does not mean that in the real world either canon law isnāt being followed nor that others should expect to have the same experience. Unfortunately, thatās exactly whatās being implied in these posts.
What people just will not accept is the fact that misinformation like this (disregard canon law) has the potential to cause people a lot of problems. When someone is told by the pastor/parish āwe cannot accomodate you here because you arenāt a parishioner of this parish because you donāt live in the parish territoryā¦ā Such a person will not be able to make an appeal to an internet forum. No priest is going to say āwell, gee, if you read it on the internet, that changes things, I suppose Iām obligated to disregard the law and do as you ask because I wouldnāt dare contradict an internet forum.ā That sort of thing is just not going to happen. And where will these people who are suggesting to disregard the law be when such a problem arises? What is one supposed to do? Send a private message to a poster asking that poster to contact the local bishop and explain that because certain advice was given on a forum that the bishop should reverse his policy? Good luck with that.
People just donāt realize that there are consequences involved in telling strangersāwhether itās outright advice, or merely personal anecdotes which imply itāto disregard the canons about parish membership.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Well, allow me to post a question to you. Youāve shared in other threads that youāre a lawyer, so let me ask you for some hypothetical legal advice (just hypothetical, mind you!)I grew up in San Jose before that diocese was raised, while it was still ārawā Archdioces of San Francisco. Crossing a parish line for Mass was considered very serious; you better havea good reason (the only time we ever did was for evening Mass when weād been camping).
In San Diego, there was a church up the street and around the corner, until I moved to El Cajon near the gal I was dating (now my wife), still easy.
Here in Las Vegas,the RC church is less than half a mile down the street, again easy.
But then I went to Ames, IA for grad school. One regular parish, and another primarily for the University, but also (I think) established as a parish. We went to the latter at first, until it sunk in that the othe had the school, and our kids were reaching that age. Now thT I ink of it, it seems to me that the university was either excluded or. Included in both; I forget. Still, our kids would be there, so we got involved there.
Then came DuBois, PA.
St. Catherine of Siena literally a block from St. Joseph; you could toss a rock or ball from one to the other (it was the short side of the block). about thre blocks away was St. Michaelās). No more RC churches in any direction for many miles (Nativity of the Mother of God was kind of tucked behind St. Michaelās; I found the East when I was wrong about Mass time at St. Michaelās one Sunday when the kids were sick).
Anyway all three RC churches were ethnic parishes (St. Catherineās was Irish, the first. Built; St. Josephās Lithunian; and St. Michaelās Polish). St. Catherineās had the school, and was closest to us ( by a couple hundred feet
Now Iām back home, and in an EC parish. I pass my former RC parish, an RC mission (Vietnamese, and functionally a parish)ā andW sometimes another RC church on my way.
Iād love to know our parish bundries, if theyāv even formally defined
The state of Nevada, perhaps?
Our Eparchy (diocese) is roughly the western half of the US (we have 3 bishops for the easteqrn half, or at least our supposed to; after a two year vacancy, or metropolitan see is being filled by the bishop of Passaic, which will leave it vacant . . .).
While there is another parish in our Eparchy 8 or 10 miles away, it is of a different rite and in our care. Thereās a parish about 350 miles SE in San DWiego, one in Van Nuys about 250 or 300 miles roughly W, our cathedral in Phounex about 300 or so SE, anther past that in Tucson . . ., about 500 miles NW in Sacramento . . .
hawk
Letās say that Iām a client.
Hereās my story.
I grew up in California. Iāve always liked California. Iāve always been a good citizen there. Iāve voted in every election since my 18th birthday.
A few years ago, I moved to Nevada, where I now live. Iāve always kept up my practice of voting in California. You see, I live near the state line and itās just a few minutes drive for me to go back home and vote every November in my home precinct.
I went on an internet forum and asked around. At least a dozen people told me that they vote in a state other than where they live, and they tell me theyāve never (never ever) had any problems.
I do my grocery shopping in California every week. I go to movies in California all the time. Most of my family still lives there and I visit constantly. Iāve never, ever had anyone tell me Iām not welcome in California.
The last time I tried to vote in California, the poll worker asked me for an ID and I dutifully showed my Nevada drivers license. I was told that I cannot vote in California because I donāt live there. Can you imagine the nerve of that poll worker? I cannot believe it! How dare anyone tell me that just because of some archaic law and some imaginary line drawn on a map that just happens to put my house on the Nevada side of the state line that means I cannot continue to vote in the place where I consider my home? This is an outrage! A state isnāt some imaginary lines drawn on a map, a state is a community, and I should be able to be part of whatever community I prefer without having to worry about some arbitrary rules about āresidenceā whatever thatās supposed to mean.
Youāre my lawyer. Fix this. Weāre going to court. Donāt worry because I have all the evidence we need. I printed out those internet posts telling me that I donāt have to worry about which side of the state line I live on, because it doesnāt matter. Oh, am I going to show those poll workers how wrong they are!
Now, in this purely hypothetical situation what would your hypothetical legal counsel be to such a person?
Iām not trying to say that youāre ātaking sidesā here because of your post.
But I am curious what your reaction would hypothetically be???
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Phemie
Guest
You forget that just because they say they are from Parish X, they may be territorially members of Parish Z and not even be aware of it.
Itās the same with military personel who live off Base and register at the parish closest to their home. They will tell you they are members of St. Maryās on Queen Street but the pastor responsible for them is actually Padre King at St. Michaelās at 13 Wing. They believe St. Maryās is their parish and nobody has ever told them the difference. In a city with many parishes, some very close together itās not always obvious that your house falls in Parish Yās boundaries.
When I moved to a town Iād look for the closest church and always assumed that that was the parish I was supposed to go to. Itās only in recent years thatās Iāve discovered differently ā and Iām 58 years old. It was much simpler when I lived in a village with one Catholic parish. You knew you belonged there.
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TrueLight
Guest
Good point.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
Oh I understand. I live that life also. But, commuting 45 minutes for work and driving that far for a 5yo play date are two different things.
Even with attending your local parish, I am sure that you wonāt find all your friends on the same street. But you very likely will find that your children will make friends with neighborhood children and it will be much easier for them to be friends with kids who live nearby than with kids they need to commute to see.Of course, that doesnāt necessarily have anything to do with where you attend Mass. I just encourage folks to build community where they are (partly by attending the local parish), then create a scattered web of community across 3 counties.
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