Attending Protestant "ordination" is sinful?

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Someone I know is being “ordained” (if it can really be called that) a Protestant minister today. My family is planning on going to see her “ordination” today, and I think it might be an interesting experience. Would it be sinful to attend? The “Ask an Apologist” questions regarding this certainly seem to discourage it. I don’t want to embarass myself before my family by refusing to go.

What should I do?
 
McatholicN said:
Someone I know is being “ordained” (if it can really be called that) a Protestant minister today. My family is planning on going to see her “ordination” today, and I think it might be an interesting experience. Would it be sinful to attend? The “Ask an Apologist” questions regarding this certainly seem to discourage it. I don’t want to embarass myself before my family by refusing to go.

What should I do?
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Why on earth would it be sinful?
Of course it isn’t. I am sure God is pleased when women and men enter into ministry to serve Him. The Protestant churches don’t share the Catholic beliefs about a sacrificial priesthood, neither do we believe they have an apostolic ordination that makes them capable of celebrating the Eucharist, and neither do they claim to have that. They have other - coherent within its system - beliefs about what a pastor is.
Eg. they stress the priesthood of all believers and their leaders are worthy of respect as long as they follow their conscience and take the Bible seriously. You should pray for this pastor that she has success in her ministry.
I grew up in Lutheranism, and some pastors there do a heck of a good job serving Christ according to their knowlege. One of the best preachers I met in that church was a female pastor.
I also know a woman who had a near death experience and came back with the certainty that Christ, whom she had met while being clinically dead, had blessed her for her future pastoral ministry. I believe in the testimony of this lutheran lady. She is also very pro-catholic and prays the rosary, and she serves the word of God.
Embarrasment you would indeed cause if you, as a Catholic, did not realise that God is greater than our scisms and he works with all those people who do the best they can to follow His Word in Christ.
Ordinations are beautiful if the person is serious about serving the Lord and the Bible, no matter what Christian Church they take place in.
 
Yes, but it’s not the Pope is it?😉

In some senses an apologist can’t help but say what is said in those links.
 
McatholicN said:
Someone I know is being “ordained” (if it can really be called that) a Protestant minister today. My family is planning on going to see her “ordination” today, and I think it might be an interesting experience. Would it be sinful to attend? The “Ask an Apologist” questions regarding this certainly seem to discourage it. I don’t want to embarass myself before my family by refusing to go.

What should I do?
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Frankly, you should not be concerned about embarrassing your family. Your faith comes first and you definitely should NOT be attending this totally invalid Protestant “ordination”.
 
thistle said:
Frankly, you should not be concerned about embarrassing your family. Your faith comes first and you definitely should NOT be attending this totally invalid Protestant “ordination”.
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Since there is not “protestant ordination” it cannot be invalid. They dont wanna be Catholic priests. They have a different concept of what a church leader is.
 
For me, if this person was brought up Catholic, I would not go because I would feel as though I was supporting them leaving the fullness of Truth on earth. On the other hand, if this person was brought up in the other faith, I don’t see how I can hold them to the standards of our faith. If this is their understanding of their faith, and they have decided to dedicate their life to the service of God, I wouldn’t have a problem going and celebrating with them. I’m no expert, but this is what I would do, depending on some other circumstances.
 
GraceDK said:
Since there is not “protestant ordination” it cannot be invalid. They dont wanna be Catholic priests. They have a different concept of what a church leader is.
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You are missing the point. The OP should NOT be attending.
 
Why spend your time going to an “ordaination” that is a charade at best?

When I was a very young Protestant, I attended an “ordination.” It occurred to me to wonder where the person doing the “ordaining” got the authority to ordain another? I found the answer: they take turns “ordaining” each other with an “authority” they give themselves.

Why waste the time of a Catholic Answers apologist if you don’t value their opinion? Jusrt wondering why you’re still uncertain after they’ve given you the answer.
 
thistle said:
You are missing the point. The OP should NOT be attending.
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Which point am I missing? Your point? Maybe I am, because I certainly dont agree with you, nor do I follow your logic.
Would you say an Evangelical should never join the celebration of the ordination of a Catholic friend, because he didnt share his view on what priesthood is and isnt?

Your world must be narrow.
I have been to ordinations in non-catholic congregations and seen them celebrate rites of passage which we deal with in other ways… I have taken time to understand the inner logic of their thinking.

And I simply have another oppinion than you. If the person is anti-catholic or fallen away Catholic that is another matter, but we hear none of those things.

Ps.I once watched a jewish Bar Mitsvah with joyful curiosity and partook in a Jewish wedding with chanting rabbis and I clapped my hands and danced… Are you scandalized?
 
GraceDK said:
Which point am I missing? Your point? Maybe I am, because I certainly dont agree with you, nor do I follow your logic.
Would you say an Evangelical should never join the celebration of the ordination of a Catholic friend, because he didnt share his view on what priesthood is and isnt?

Your world must be narrow.
I have been to ordinations in non-catholic congregations and seen them celebrate rites of passage which we deal with in other ways… I have taken time to understand the inner logic of their thinking.

And I simply have another oppinion than you. If the person is anti-catholic or fallen away Catholic that is another matter, but we hear none of those things.

Ps.I once watched a jewish Bar Mitsvah with joyful curiosity and partook in a Jewish wedding with chanting rabbis and I clapped my hands and danced… Are you scandalized?
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Its not a matter of personal opinion, its a matter of Church teachings concerning invalid sacraments and that a faithful Catholic should not attend such events. We are certainly allowed to attend weddings and baptisms in the other faiths if they are recognised as valid, but not if they are invalid. A protestant ordination is not a valid sacrament recognized by the Catholic Church and thus we as Catholic should not attend. Either you agree with the Church teachings or you don’t. But its not a matter of personal opinion.
 
PatriceA said:
Its not a matter of personal opinion, its a matter of Church teachings concerning invalid sacraments and that a faithful Catholic should not attend such events. We are certainly allowed to attend weddings and baptisms in the other faiths if they are recognised as valid, but not if they are invalid. A protestant ordination is not a valid sacrament recognized by the Catholic Church and thus we as Catholic should not attend. Either you agree with the Church teachings or you don’t. But its not a matter of personal opinion.
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It’s not an invalid sacrament since its not a sacrament at all.
No ordination in any church has the meaning that the Catholic one does.
I do not believe the Church tells us that we cannot attend an invalid marriage-ceremony, an invalid baptism (rebaptism by choice) or things like that. (You need to give me proof that a presently binding statement that forbids such is existing) The latter two might cause scandal… which in my oppinion is not the truth for an ordination of a person in a tradition that sees is neither as a sacrament of pretends it to have the function of Catholic ordination. They do not even believe in transubstantiation or confession… so how can you even compare the things.
When I entered Catholicism I did not enter a slavery of law. You cannot convince me that it is such a system. Again, the challenge lies with you to give me the evidence that the Church would forbid a follower from being present at an ordination in another church tradition.

Again I say to the OP, go and celebrate with your friend that she steps into ministry the best way she knows how.
 
How can we evangelize unless we are present?

If my friend is getting married, divorced, getting a degree or becoming a rabbi I will be there.

If my friend is becoming a satanist they will no longer be my friend.

If my friend is doing anything that helps them grow as a person into the person that God wants them to be then I will support them.

If I was a priest however, and not just acting as a private person I would ask my bishop if it was OK to attend.
 
GraceDK said:
It’s not an invalid sacrament since its not a sacrament at all.
No ordination in any church has the meaning that the Catholic one does.
I do not believe the Church tells us that we cannot attend an invalid marriage-ceremony, an invalid baptism (rebaptism by choice) or things like that. (You need to give me proof that a presently binding statement that forbids such is existing) The latter two might cause scandal… which in my oppinion is not the truth for an ordination of a person in a tradition that sees is neither as a sacrament of pretends it to have the function of Catholic ordination. They do not even believe in transubstantiation or confession… so how can you even compare the things.
When I entered Catholicism I did not enter a slavery of law. You cannot convince me that it is such a system. Again, the challenge lies with you to give me the evidence that the Church would forbid a follower from being present at an ordination in another church tradition.

Again I say to the OP, go and celebrate with your friend that she steps into ministry the best way she knows how.
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No - attending something that simulates a valid sacrament (and anything calling itself an ‘ordination’ surely does so at least to an extent) causes scandal.

By attending you are giving the impression that you believe it to be the equivalent (not exactly the same, but the equivalent) of the Catholic sacrament of Holy Orders.

In exactly the same manner as by receiving communion in another denomination you are causing scandal by giving the impression that you believe that other denomination’s communion to be the equivalent of ours.

It doesn’t matter that that other denomination only sees a symbolic value to their communion, or has other different beliefs about it, whereas Catholics see much more in ours. The fact is by receiving you are implying an equivalence. So it also doesn’t matter that that other denomination doesn’t hold the same beliefs about their rite of ordination as Catholics do about ours, you shouldn’t attend.

Attending ceremonies of other religions is, at least in some circumstances, a different matter. Christianity really has no similar ceremony to, say, the Bar Mitzvah or the bris of Judaism. So there is less possibility of scandal or of anyone reading an implication of equivalence into your attendance.
 
There is a parallel here to same sex “marriage” especially since the person being ordained is a woman. The woman herself views it as a sacrament so personally I would not attend something that is blatantly against my own faith.
Think of it as a marriage between her and the bride of Christ, the Church.
eeewwwww
 
triumphguy said:
How can we evangelize unless we are present?

If my friend is getting married, divorced, getting a degree or becoming a rabbi I will be there.

If my friend is becoming a satanist they will no longer be my friend.

If my friend is doing anything that helps them grow as a person into the person that God wants them to be then I will support them.

If I was a priest however, and not just acting as a private person I would ask my bishop if it was OK to attend.
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Do you advocate attending and evangelizing? I would think that would hardly be the time or place.
We, as Catholics would freak out if someone came to a Catholic ordination and evangelized.
I think it is popular to say, “Go, be the voice of the Church.” However no one does, it is a false way of justifying a cowardice (offending by not going) with the false bravado of evangelizing which one will obviously not do.

Kind of the same logic as those who say “Jesus ate with sinners so I party with my freinds.” But that person rarely talks about chastity at the college frat party:rolleyes:
 
That’s not what I meant at all - I mean if you have relationships with people, within communities you have to be present to them and not distance yourself. If you discard your relationships how can you evangelize within those relationships?

Within relationships you can evangelize.

My wife and I were invited to a same sex “marriage” of my wife’s “BFF” and another. We told them we could not attend because of our beliefs. They understood and expected that.

However I think a SS marriage is in a whole different order than an ordination of a friend in a mainline church.

Especially if the Church is one which the Catholic Church would recognize as having a valid form of marriage.

And here’s my backup from EWTN!

Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university.
ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur131.htm
Another reader, a priest from Winnipeg, Manitoba, broached another point: “You mentioned recently that ‘one may attend a relative’s ordination as an Episcopal minister.’ I’ve always appreciated the old practice of not attending an invalid marriage because of the witness value of attending. Since an Episcopal ordination does not produce a valid priest, would the attendance of a Catholic imply an approval of some sort? And if not, perhaps if the person submitting to the rite is a lapsed Catholic, it would be better if the Catholic did not attend.”
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I do not believe the two situations are perfectly parallel. Attending a ceremony involving an invalid marriage can signify approval for a couple entering into an objectively sinful state.
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Attending, for a just cause, an Episcopalian ordination or analogous installation ceremonies for Protestant ministers does not imply any recognition of their sacramental validity and is simply a gesture of friendship or family ties.
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I agree, however, that some particular circumstances, such as the ordination of a lapsed Catholic, would make it inadvisable for a Catholic to attend such a ceremony. No matter how much respect we may have for the sincere faith of other Christians, no Catholic could approve or view positively a person’s publicly abandoning the Catholic faith, which we believe to be the fullness of Christ’s Church, by becoming a minister in another Christian community.
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triumphguy said:
That’s not what I meant at all - I mean if you have relationships with people, within communities you have to be present to them and not distance yourself. If you discard your relationships how can you evangelize within those relationships?

Within relationships you can evangelize.

My wife and I were invited to a same sex “marriage” of my wife’s “BFF” and another. We told them we could not attend because of our beliefs. They understood and expected that.

However I think a SS marriage is in a whole different order than an ordination of a friend in a mainline church.

Especially if the Church is one which the Catholic Church would recognize as having a valid form of marriage.

And here’s my backup from EWTN!

Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university.
ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur131.htm
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Indeed, I have just said exactly what Father McNamara says here… Some people will now have to dig up a binding document that states that bother Father M and I are going against church doctrine…
 
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