Augustinian Eschatology is becoming Insufficient

[spauline]

Augustinian Eschatology is becoming Insufficient

There is a tendency in modern Catholicism, because it is liberal and dismissive, to believe that whereas the OT evolved in stages, nevertheless, Church history is only a random, vague mess that eventually reaches maturity in the two extremes, devil’s children and Catholics, and then, at some point, the darkness overtakes and the world ends.

I don’t agree with this, and as a Catholic, in fact, I don’t HAVE to.

So what if Augustinian eschatology has been the traditional tendency of Catholic thought for 1600 years? Does that mean that Augustine necessarily solved everything?

Behold, many ECFs prophesied that astounding interpretations of the apocalypse shall be attained by certain men toward the latter times.

Clearly, Augustine is not one of them, as he is not in the latter times proper, which is not merely the age of the Church, but that period that lies closer to the end of the world than pagan Rome.

Augustine places on a pedastal the parable of the wheat and the tares as though it trumps all other apocalyptic data. This is becoming inadequate. Augustine didn’t have the data we now have.

Church history is NOT random and aimless.

The last 1700 years prove it. How? Well, the major attacks on Catholic Church doctrinal development are logical and successive:

The greater of the first heresies, culminating with Islam, are attacking the Trinity and Incarnation in some sense.

The next great spiritual plague was the Great Schism, which attacked Peter, who is next in command under God.

The next great disturbance was Protestantism, which attacked ALL the bishops and Oral Trad, which is next in command in terms of authority and reliability.

The next great disturbance was the Enlightenment, which attacked even Scripture and all Divine Revelation, which is next in command, retaining only reason to light man’s path.

Finally, the modern secular apostasy has attacked even reason, and the devil and beast are back in full throttle.

And this is all ordered.

The devil has attacked, in the bigger picture, the sources of God’s Truth from top to bottom, from the most important to the least important.

How? Because, in terms of reliability and importance, the sources of God’s truth are aligned precisely in descending order as the history of their attacks.

The Trinity and Incarnation is the supreme source of truth, God Himself.

Peter, the papacy, is next in command, the infallible guardian of God’s truth.

The General Bishops and Oral Tradition is next in line, far more reliable than Scripture by itself. For the Orthodox, who still retain this, have far less errros in doctrine than the Protestants, that is, the heretics.

The Scriptures are the final supernatural source of truth but the least reliable when taken by themselves. Need we say more about the confusion in Protestantism, which is based on private sola scriptura.

Finally, reason, the last to go, is the least reliable source of God’s truth, for with reason, one can only know the natural truths: God’s unicity and existence, and the moral law.

Further, the bigger ages of ALL Salvation history follow a pattern different from Augustine’s wheat and tare theology.

Salvation history is most certainly NOT a progressive maturation of good and evil side by side, journeying towards a final confrontation.

Rather, salvation history is a repeated alternation between prevalence of evil and prevalence of good, just as the day of creation begins with darkness and ends with light, as in, evening came and morning followed.

The Fall, The Flood [darkness, light]
Babel, Confounding of Languages and Abraham [darkness, light]
Egypt, Exodus [darkness, light]
Jewish Unfaithfulness, Babylonian Exile and Restoration [darkness, light]
OT Antichrist Antiochus, First Coming of Christ [darkness, light]

And the NT is no exception:

Pagan Rome, Catholic Christendom [darkness, light]
The modern Minor Apostasy, the Age of peace [darkness, light]
The Great Apostasy, Second Coming and New Creation [darkness, light]

The last two we know from Catholic prophecy, much of which Augustine didn’t have, namely, the general mystics’ prophecy of an intermediate apostasy followed by the reunion of Christians and an age of peace, all to precede the final apostasy of the end of the world.

Therefore, the parable of the wheat and the tares should more be about the end of the individual’s life, which is his end of the world, in which God waits patiently for maturity, and that the Church will have corruption within rather than that the parable is the be all and tell of eschatology.

This brings us to the final conclusion: If Augustinism is correct, why would Christ leave us with a measly vague parable to be the summation of all apocalyptic theology, to the detriment of the plenitude of Scripture and Tradition that can pulled into the meaning of Salvation history?

Therefore, should not the ultimate voice of Christ for the apocalypse be drawn from the forthcoming statement, rather than this mere parable of the field:

“Amen, amen I say to you, it shall ALL be fulfilled!”?

 

[SHW]

St. Methodius’ of Olympus (311 A.D.) revelation about the End Times:

Read more at:
http://www.catholicrevelations.org/PR/st%20methodius.htm

Excerpt:

“When the Son of Perdition appears, he will be of the tribe of Dan, according to the prophecy of Jacob. This enemy of religion will use a diabolic art to produce many false miracles, such as causing the blind to see, the lame to walk, and the deaf to hear. Those possessed with demons will be exorcised. He will deceive many and, if he could, as our Lord has said, even the faithful elect. “ 11

“Even the Antichrist will enter Jerusalem, where he will enthrone himself in the temple as a god (even though he will be an ordinary man of the tribe of Dan to which Judas Iscariot also belonged).” 12

“In those days, the Antichrist will bring about many tribulation; but God will not allow those redeemed by the divine blood to be deceived. For that reason, he will send his two servants, Enoch and Elias, who will declare the prodigies of the Antichrist to be false, and will denounce him as an impostor. After the death and ruin of many, he will leave the Temple in confusion; and many of his followers will forsake him to join the company of the righteous. The seducer, upon seeing himself reproached and scorned, will become enraged and will put to death those saints of God. It is then that there will appear the sign of the Son of Man, and he will come upon the clouds of heaven.” 13

Nowhere in Scripture does it state that Jesus will have an earthly kingdom. Instead, it states that those left on earth after Antichrist is defeated will meet Jesus in the air and that their bodies will be instantly changed into immortal bodies. After this “meeting Jesus in the air” comes the Final Judgment on this same day which is called the Day of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

These two Scriptures are about the same event and it happens at Jesus’ Second Coming at the end of “time” on Judgment Day at the sound of the trumpet. The trumpet sounds the Day of the Lord which is Judgment Day.

2 Timothy 4:1
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

Jesus returns (appears) only once more and it is “in the clouds” and it is at His Second Coming and it is then that the Christians are caught up in the air to meet Him, and it is then that He judges His kingdom from His throne in heaven.

2 Timothy 4:8
Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Paul is explaining that His “appearing” and “judgment” are both on the same day.

Scripture states that Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36) and that heaven is His throne and earth is but His footstool (Isaiah 66:1, Matthew 5:34-36, Acts 7:49).

On earth, the kingdom of heaven is within us. Jesus’ kingdom is in heaven where He is reigning right now. He will come to get those who are still alive after the Antichrist is defeated and they will meet Him in the clouds. After that is the final judgment.

Luke 17:20-21
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed,** the kingdom of God is within you**.”

Notice that it states that the kingdom of God does not come with observation. We cannot see it because it is in our hearts, minds, and souls. It is not a visible kingdom on earth. God’s/Jesus’ throne is in heaven. There is only one throne for God and it is in heaven and all three Divine Persons sit on this one throne.

Jesus sits at the right hand of God; He sits to the right of both the Father (Majesty) and the Holy Spirit (Power). (cf. Acts 2:33, Luke 22:69, Ephesians 1:16-21, Colossians 3:1) Perhaps the throne is semicircular so that Jesus can sit at the right hand of the Father and so that He can also sit at the right hand of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus never comes to earth to set up and rule an earthly kingdom for 1000 years.

He only appears once more and that is on Judgment Day:

Hebrews 9:27-28
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

He appears a second time for salvation (Judgment Day); He will not come to rule on earth for 1000 years in Jerusalem in Israel. Earth is His footstool, never His throne.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."(cf. Mark 13:25-27)

 

[Robbinson]

St. Methodius’ of Olympus (311 A.D.) revelation about the End Times:

Read more at:
http://www.catholicrevelations.org/PR/st%20methodius.htm

Excerpt:

Nowhere in Scripture does it state that Jesus will have an earthly kingdom. Instead, it states that those left on earth after Antichrist is defeated will meet Jesus in the air and that their bodies will be instantly changed into immortal bodies. After this “meeting Jesus in the air” comes the Final Judgment on this same day which is called the Day of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

These two Scriptures are about the same event and it happens at Jesus’ Second Coming at the end of “time” on Judgment Day at the sound of the trumpet. The trumpet sounds the Day of the Lord which is Judgment Day.

2 Timothy 4:1
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

Jesus returns (appears) only once more and it is “in the clouds” and it is at His Second Coming and it is then that the Christians are caught up in the air to meet Him, and it is then that He judges His kingdom from His throne in heaven.

2 Timothy 4:8
Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Paul is explaining that His “appearing” and “judgment” are both on the same day.

Scripture states that Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36) and that heaven is His throne and earth is but His footstool (Isaiah 66:1, Matthew 5:34-36, Acts 7:49).

On earth, the kingdom of heaven is within us. Jesus’ kingdom is in heaven where He is reigning right now. He will come to get those who are still alive after the Antichrist is defeated and they will meet Him in the clouds. After that is the final judgment.

Luke 17:20-21
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed,** the kingdom of God is within you**.”

Notice that it states that the kingdom of God does not come with observation. We cannot see it because it is in our hearts, minds, and souls. It is not a visible kingdom on earth. God’s/Jesus’ throne is in heaven. There is only one throne for God and it is in heaven and all three Divine Persons sit on this one throne.

Jesus sits at the right hand of God; He sits to the right of both the Father (Majesty) and the Holy Spirit (Power). (cf. Acts 2:33, Luke 22:69, Ephesians 1:16-21, Colossians 3:1) Perhaps the throne is semicircular so that Jesus can sit at the right hand of the Father and so that He can also sit at the right hand of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus never comes to earth to set up and rule an earthly kingdom for 1000 years.

He only appears once more and that is on Judgment Day:

Hebrews 9:27-28
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

He appears a second time for salvation (Judgment Day); He will not come to rule on earth for 1000 years in Jerusalem in Israel. Earth is His footstool, never His throne.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."(cf. Mark 13:25-27)

Isn’t the right answer that we just don’t “know” whether there will be a literal 1,000 rule, or not? There is no, as I understand it, official Catholic doctrine on the eschatology, and there are reasonable interpretations of scripture either way.

For what its worth, there are graphic descriptions in the OT prophets suggesting Jesus will literally be back on earth in the end times and the promises made to Israel (as a nation) which are unconditional, will be fulfilled (albeit, after the full allotment of Gentiles comes in (Romans 11) and after Israel morns for the one whom they have pierced and call on the name of the Lord (Zechariah).

But - we just don’t know - so we should all be careful, I think, in stating “absolutes” when it comes to eschatology (which does not affect salvation and on which the Church does not claim to have taken an official/infallible view).

Blessings,

Brian

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Robbinson:

For what its worth, there are graphic descriptions in the OT prophets suggesting Jesus will literally be back on earth in the end times and the promises made to Israel (as a nation) which are unconditional, will be fulfilled (albeit, after the full allotment of Gentiles comes in (Romans 11) and after Israel morns for the one whom they have pierced and call on the name of the Lord (Zechariah).

For what its worth, the Catholic Church dogmatically teaches that Jesus will return at the end of days for the resurrection of the dead at the Last Judgment, and not an earthly establishment of some millenarian kingdom. That is dogmatic Catholic teaching.

CCC: 988-1001 “I believe in the resurrection of the body”

The millenarian heresy is an old one and was dogmatically rejected and condemned throughout the ages. Today it is strictly an evangelical Protestant belief (particularly fundamentalists) and has no part of Catholic teaching.

 

[Robbinson]

For what its worth, the Catholic Church dogmatically teaches that Jesus will return at the end of days for the resurrection of the dead at the Last Judgment, and not an earthly establishment of some millenarian kingdom. That is dogmatic Catholic teaching.

CCC: 988-1001 “I believe in the resurrection of the body”

The millenarian heresy is an old one and was dogmatically rejected and condemned throughout the ages. Today it is strictly an evangelical Protestant belief (particularly fundamentalists) and has no part of Catholic teaching.

Thank you for the post - I stand corrected on the Catholic Church position and I was mistaken. I guess this is another Church doctrine I’ll need to think about. It looks like this view/millenial kingdom view was held by several of the early Church fathers - but was repudiated later in Church history as you suggest.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Ed_Rand]

I don’t see anybody arguing that Jesus is going to come back before the end of time.

Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven

Since Jesus prayed this first, and since billions of faithful Catholics have prayed this throughout two millenia, then I would bet that God would grant us an earthly kingdom, even on this side of time.

What has been condemned is the idea that Jesus will descend in the flesh and rule on this side of time. This is a dangerous teaching for very obvious reasons.

What has not been ruled out is a triumph of the Church, of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, an age of peace where Jesus rules on earth like the greatest king, yet only spiritually, through his Church. I find it difficult to read Revelation 20 in any other light.

 

[spauline]

I am not advocating chiliasm, people. The age of peace that follows our current apostasy is not a literal reign of Christ on earth. It is a spiritual peace. Christ does not return until the end of time.

I am not, therefore, contesting amillennialism proper, but rather saying a better interp of the Millennium is that it is the age of peace, when Catholicism will be lovingly embraced for a great period of time, the Triumph of Our Lady’s Immaculate heart.

Talk about being misunderstood.

I’m saying, Augustine only speaks of TWO greater darknesses in Church history: pagan Rome and the end of the world AC.

I’m saying, there is a middle darkness, the intermediate apostasy, and in between that one and the final, great one, is a period of peace, and that THAT is the Millennium, but not that Christ will be reigning literally on earth. The Second Coming is not until the very end. I know that.

You completely misunderstood me.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

spauline:

I am not, therefore, contesting amillennialism proper, but rather saying a better interp of the Millennium is that it is the age of peace, when Catholicism will be lovingly embraced for a great period of time, the Triumph of Our Lady’s Immaculate heart.

I believe this already happened in the middle ages from say 400 to 1400.

 

[spauline]

I believe this already happened in the middle ages from say 400 to 1400.

not in my opinion. For that was the time when the woman rested from the serpent, using the wings from Greece, Philosophy and Art. Then the serpent spewed the flood of Protestantism and the Enlightenment, but the Magisterium, the earth, or foundation of truth, swallowed the serpent’s heresies and preserved the Church. So the devil ran off to wage war on the Church (Pope Leo XIII’s locution in the late 1800’s?)

Now the beast and false prophet are alive in well in the secular apostasy. But they will cast into the fire when the Gentiles come back to faith, a spiritual resurrection of faith.

Then there will the Millennium. After the figurative Millennium, the dragon will be loosed by lax man, and the beast and false prophet will come back in the final apostasy, after which will occur the Second Coming.

 

[SHW]

I don’t see anybody arguing that Jesus is going to come back before the end of time.

Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven

Since Jesus prayed this first, and since billions of faithful Catholics have prayed this throughout two millenia, then I would bet that God would grant us an earthly kingdom, even on this side of time.

What has been condemned is the idea that Jesus will descend in the flesh and rule on this side of time. This is a dangerous teaching for very obvious reasons.

What has not been ruled out is a triumph of the Church, of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, an age of peace where Jesus rules on earth like the greatest king, yet only spiritually, through his Church. I find it difficult to read Revelation 20 in any other light.

I agree with you. Jesus “appears” a “second” time only and it is at the end of time. I quoted the relevant Scriptures in my previous post which support this view.

 

[Lev23]

Remove this one word from the prophecy of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and you get something that resmebles these first 10 posts.

That word is-
"Israel"

 

[SHW]

And your point is?

God does not abandon nor suppress His Church in order to include Israel/Jews in His Salvation Plan.

 

[Lev23]

And your point is?

God does not abandon nor suppress His Church in order to include Israel/Jews in His Salvation Plan.

My point is that there are many descriptions in scripture that describes the last days, and always involves Israel, the land and the people, and the Messiah. These are the words of God Himself. But yet, there is no talk here of Israel when it comes to eschatology.

Never does God say he will abandon or suppress His Church in order to include Israel/Jews in His Salvation Plan. That is your erroneus assumption.

 

[SHW]

My point is that there are many descriptions in scripture that describes the last days, and always involves Israel, the land and the people, and the Messiah. These are the words of God Himself. But yet, there is no talk here of Israel when it comes to eschatology.

Never does God say he will abandon or suppress His Church in order to include Israel/Jews in His Salvation Plan. That is your erroneus assumption.

Thank you for clarifying your point. I had no idea what you meant by only posting the one word “Israel.” I was not assuming anything; I was simply clarifying my own belief in case you wanted to comment on it, which you did.

Many people believe that Jesus will come to earth and rule an earthly kingdom in Jerusalem in Israel for one thousand years, but Catholics do not believe this because earth is but His footstool, never His throne; and His kingdom is not of this world.

Many Catholics believe that the Jews will embrace Christianity when Enoch and Elijah preach to them in the last days if this passage in Revelation is to be taken literally and not symbolically. This is the remaining “remnant” of Jews that was prophesied in both the Old and New Testaments and they will embrace Christianity before Jesus returns again.

Christians who are left on earth after the Great Tribulation are caught up in the air to meet Him when He appears this second time and then begins the “Judgment of all persons” as this is the Day of the Lord. No rapture first before the tribulation.

 

[Kasey1]

I agree with you. Jesus “appears” a “second” time only and it is at the end of time. I quoted the relevant Scriptures in my previous post which support this view.

ohhh,thanks for sharing.

http://www.photosnag.com/img/4673/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gif

 

[Kasey1]

I believe this already happened in the middle ages from say 400 to 1400.

I also believe that

http://www.photosnag.com/img/4673/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gif

 

[SHW]

I believe this already happened in the middle ages from say 400 to 1400.

I had not heard this view before.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

I had not heard this view before.

Well, I was answering this from spauline’s post:

I am not, therefore, contesting a millennialism proper, but rather saying a better interp of the Millennium is that it is the age of peace, when Catholicism will be lovingly embraced for a great period of time, the Triumph of Our Lady’s Immaculate heart.

That age, I believe is adequately met within the time frame of 400-1400

It would be hard to deny that Catholicism was embraced by the world then or at least by “Christendom” And the middle ages were certainly a time of great devotion to Our Lady, beginning with the Council of Ephesus.

It’s not without some serious problems however; viz. the rise of Islam.

 

[spauline]

Well, I was answering this from spauline’s post:

That age, I believe is adequately met within the time frame of 400-1400

It would be hard to deny that Catholicism was embraced by the world then or at least by “Christendom” And the middle ages were certainly a time of great devotion to Our Lady, beginning with the Council of Ephesus.

It’s not without some serious problems however; viz. the rise of Islam.

there was neither spiritual peace (Islam, Schism, preliminary Protestant heretics), nor temporal peace in this period. Wars abounded. The Gentiles were kicking and screaming in this period, just like the Jews did relative to the Old Covenant between the Exodus and Exile.

What is to come in the reversion of humanity to the Gospel will make the Middle Ages look like atheism.

 

[spauline]

For if the loss of Christian unity has meant a great loss of faith, what shall the reunion of Christians mean except the fullness of the kingdom of God on earth, the supreme reign of Jesus Christ WITHIN human history, even as the apostle saith, “For if their rejection is the salvation of the Gentiles, what shall their [Jews] acceptance mean except resurrection from the dead!”

I think the same principle applies to Christ’s prayer for unity of His disciples: He prays for unity only because he knows in the first great epoch of Church history, His disciples shall become progressively divided. But if they are “brought to perfection as one”, should that not mean the restoration of the Gospel? So that the world may believe, at least, for a time before the final falling away?

I find that those who say the great apostasy has started are hard hearted, pessimistic, and unforgiving.