Australia- About the course of action being taken on the recommendation to remove the seal of confession

[Roseeurekacross]

That is also the case within confession. Because a child is not confessing what he or she did. Even though they might believe its their fault. Archbishop Hart said this.

We must pray their discussions are fruitful.

 

[Arkansan]

Canon law is crystal clear. Information divulged in confession cannot be disclosed without the penitent’s consent in any way.

 

[mVitus]

That is also the case within confession. Because a child is not cobfessibg what he or she did. Even though they might believe its their fault. Archbishop Hart said this.

We must pray their discussions are fruitful.

I’ll heartily agree with that it’s not the child’s fault. But it was my understanding that the Seal applied even to non-sins.

 

[Bradskii]

Can a priest refuse to hear a confession?

If someone confessed that he or she had abused a child, then the pennance must be: Confess to the authorities.

What happens if that person doesn’t? Can the priest refuse to hear further confessions - and make that fact known?

 

[Cruciferi]

Can a priest refuse to hear a confession?

If there’s reason to believe that they’re not contrite.

If someone confessed that he or she had abused a child, then the pennance must be: Confess to the authorities.

Nope. God’s forgiveness doesn’t equal civil law. The Priest can refuse absolution or make a suggestion for restitution. However, forgiveness can’t be contingent upon turning themselves in.

Can the priest refuse to hear further confessions - and make that fact known?

He can refuse but he can’t go blabbing about it.

 

[Bradskii]

Bradskii:

Can a priest refuse to hear a confession?

If there’s reason to believe that they’re not contrite.

If someone confessed that he or she had abused a child, then the pennance must be: Confess to the authorities.

Nope. God’s forgiveness doesn’t equal civil law. The Priest can refuse absolution or make a suggestion for restitution. However, forgiveness can’t be contingent upon turning themselves in.

Can the priest refuse to hear further confessions - and make that fact known?

He can refuse but he can’t go blabbing about it.

So can restitution involve confessing sins to those who have been harmed? Admittedly from wiki, but…

…and performance of some act to repair the damage caused by sin…

This is something about which I have no knowledge. But it seems that saying a few hail marys doesn’t cover the more serious crimes. So what are the more serious pennaces given? And again, what happens if they are not undertaken?

 

[Arkansan]

Confessors can never impose a public penance for private sins (however terrible). That principle is undisputed among moral theologians.

 

[Bradskii]

The sin is hardly private. It’s not like the guy was masturbating himself in his bedroom. It involves at least one other person.

I’m just looking for loopholes. But to be honest, I have a tendency to support the anonymity of the confessional.

 

[Arkansan]

The pertinent point is that it’s not publicly known.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

The Sacrament of Reconcilliation is less about penance these days . It’s more about God’s mercy and walking back into God’s love. When we sin , we remove ourselves from that lov of God.

The Sacrament has changed significantly over the centuries. At one stage penance was a big focus. At another stage guilt was a big focus.

In answer to your question though, restitution would and should be both financial and judicial.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

And it can change if need be. But that’s up to the Magisterium. As I said, Pope Francis is staying very close to this.

Pray

 

[Cruciferi]

That would make a mockery of the Sacrament and it would do more harm than good. Once penitents have to incriminate themselves, nobody will go.

 

[JimG]

What exactly would a priest be required to report to the government from what he heard in confession? That a person unknown to him confessed a non-specific sexual sin? Or only report it if the penitent was specific enough to identify the sin as a criminal offense? There is no requirement that a penitent only confess to a priest who knows him. And wouldn’t whatever is said in confession by an unknown person be legally an instance of hearsay, which might not be legally admissible? But this, I think, is all hypothetical. People who abuse children simply do not go to confession, any more than do serial killers go to onfession between killings.

 

[Cruciferi]

I’m sure they’re gonna say that the Priest must alert the authorities if a victim confesses or mentions abuse. In their hypothetical situation, some kid will mention it in Confession and the Priest must report it.

 

[Bradskii]

Not that I am a fan of slippery slope arguments, but this matter seems to require it being mentioned.

What if you confess to speeding? Does the priest ring the local boys in blue then?

 

[Cruciferi]

Penitent: Father, I drove home buzzed…

Priest: It’s alright my son, we all fall time to time.

Penitent: (Long Pause) Uh, do I get absolution?

Priest: Shhh! I’m on the phone with the Police

 

[Roseeurekacross]

What exactly would a priest be required to report to the government from what he heard in confession? That a person unknown to him confessed a non-specific sexual sin? Or only report it if the penitent was specific enough to identify the sin as a criminal offense? There is no requirement that a penitent only confess to a priest who knows him. And wouldn’t whatever is said in confession by an unknown person be legally an instance of hearsay, which might not be legally admissible? But this, I think, is all hypothetical. People who abuse children simply do not go to confession, any more than do serial killers go to onfession between killings.

Well as explained it would be a specific statement by either a perp or victim. And mandatory reporting has legally written protocol already in place.

Again, children who come forward we’re dismissed as hearsay. That,why the Catholic Church is in this mess.

What’s more important to you Jim, protecting children or the perps. No contest in my book.
If a child uses the Sacrament of Reconcilliation to discuss this, that child needs immediate urgent help.
If a perp confesses, he or she needs immediately help.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

I think crimes like murder and domestic violence and general violence, yes.

 

[Cruciferi]

Confession isn’t the place for this. Discuss it outside of the Sacrament or withhold Absolution if there’s no sincerity.

 

[JimG]

If children were not being believed before when reporting abuse to authorities, that is the fault of the authorities for not investigating. And if a child discusses this in confession, the child should be instructed to tell someone outside of confession. In fact, children should be so advised as a matter of course. Because a priest cannot discuss outside of confession anything that is said in confession or even whether a confession was heard.

I suggest that if the government insists on interfering with the seal of confession, a prominent sign should be placed outside the confessional with a warning something like this: “Anything you say to the priest may, in accordance with government regulation, be disclosed to police authorities and may be used against you in a court of law. By entering the confessional you understand and agree with this.”

I obviously want to protect children. I also want to preserve the rights of the accused, who in the U.S. must be presumed innocent until proven guilty, but that may not be the case in Australia.

I also want to preserve that integrity of the sacrament of confession. I can guarantee that if the seal of confession is eliminated, there will be no more penitents. And if the government attempts to violate the sacrament by entrapment using phony confessions, every priest ought to go to jail rather than cooperate.