Australia bans annoying behaviour for Pope visit

[Eden]

Australians have been warned they face hefty fines if they annoy the crowds gathering to see the Pope during his visit later this month, under new regulations that critics say represent a blow to free speech.

Areas around Sydney’s landmark opera house, train stations and city parks are being set aside for the World Youth Day festival, a six-day Catholic evangelical event in July at which the Pope will conduct mass and lead prayer meetings.

Police and emergency services will have the power to order people to cease behaviour that “causes annoyance or inconvenience to participants in a World Youth Day event” under the regulations. Anyone who fails to comply could be fined A$5,500 (£2,630).

The rest is here:

guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/01/australia.catholicism

 

[Eden]

This part really is annoying:

“We are not anti-religion,” said Rachel Evans, a spokesowman for the No to Pope coalition. “We expect the police will allow us to distribute condoms to the young pilgrims and talk with them about human rights issues.”

 

[LilyM]

And why not, as long as they don’t physically or otherwise harrass the pilgrims in any way? We in Sydney regularly have religious groups protesting at and around the time of the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras parade, if we who find homosexuality repugnant to our values expect them to let US speak up at that time then we must be prepared to allow them to speak too.

Like it or not, there are people out there who think differently to you and I, and who think differently to the Catholic Church. We have to meet and discuss with them and face them head on, and can’t expect police or government to shield us from any speech simply because we disagree with it.

 

[estesbob]

This part really is annoying:

“We are not anti-religion,” said Rachel Evans, a spokesowman for the No to Pope coalition. “We expect the police will allow us to distribute condoms to the young pilgrims and talk with them about human rights issues.”

They should have every right to pass out all the condoms they want. What they will probably find is the majority of youth there will reject the condoms and their message out of hand.

 

[Pondero]

They should have every right to pass out all the condoms they want. What they will probably find is the majority of youth there will reject the condoms and their message out of hand.

No,they don’t it is just done to annoy people who think differently from them. In all probability they hate the Catholic Church and all she stands for. I support this law in Australia, as a wise measure.

 

[estesbob]

No,they don’t it is just done to annoy people who think differently from them. In all probability they hate the Catholic Church and all she stands for. I support this law in Australia, as a wise measure.

So should Catholics be prohibited from protesting at abortion clinics?

 

[LilyM]

So should Catholics be prohibited from protesting at abortion clinics?

Or at the Gay Mardi Gras Parade?

 

[Eden]

And why not, as long as they don’t physically or otherwise harrass the pilgrims in any way?

I agree with that, but I think these protests groups have the potential to cross the line into harassment and it’s good to know that the police will be monitoring them.

 

[BrendanD]

Bad idea. These people are already using this to turn themselves into oppressed martyrs for free speech

 

[KathleenElsie]

They should have every right to pass out all the condoms they want. What they will probably find is the majority of youth there will reject the condoms and their message out of hand.

I heard they make great water balloons.

 

[onetimeposter]

Strange that People don’t have the right to Peaceful assembly in Australia.

I guess Catholics won’t be able to protest outside of Abortion clinics in Australia anymore…this law would also apply to those Catholic Protestors.

Laws prohibiting peaceful assembly work both ways!

 

[LilyM]

Strange that People don’t have the right to Peaceful assembly in Australia.

I guess Catholics won’t be able to protest outside of Abortion clinics in Australia anymore…this law would also apply to those Catholic Protestors.

Laws prohibiting peaceful assembly work both ways!

For us, peaceful assembly would come under our right to free speech, which, while not unrestricted, is certainly protected in regard to political commentary.

So if a Catholic is protesting the legality of abortion and calling for its banning, for example, or a protester at World Youth Day is commenting on how they believe the teachings of the Church amount to violations of human rights, each would equally be protected.

 

[onetimeposter]

For us, peaceful assembly would come under our right to free speech, which, while not unrestricted, is certainly protected in regard to political commentary.

So if a Catholic is protesting the legality of abortion and calling for its banning, for example, or a protester at World Youth Day is commenting on how they believe the teachings of the Church amount to violations of human rights, each would equally be protected.

…but apparently not in Australia?

 

[LilyM]

…but apparently not in Australia?

Of course in Australia. You think I don’t know my own country? Or its laws, being a law student?

The mere peaceful gathering and articulating of such messages in any of these cases does NOT constitute the sort of ‘annoyance or inconvenience’ that would see one prosecuted under these laws. Anyone who attempts to have someone prosecuted for mere peaceful protest would be laughed at both by the police and the courts.

Any violence or other physical or other intimidation, however, will be, as it should be, prosecuted. You, not being Australian, have no idea how tolerant our police force is in terms of non-violent protest. Mainly because Australians never (or as near as counts) DO protest violently or in a harassing or intimidatory manner.

 

[onetimeposter]

Any violence or other physical or other intimidation, however, will be, as it should be, prosecuted. You, not being Australian, have no idea how tolerant our police force is in terms of non-violent protest. Mainly because Australians never (or as near as counts) DO protest violently or in a harassing or intimidatory manner.

So clearly, this is simply a matter of Australia not having had a law on the books to have adequately dealt with such behaviour, otherwise, they would not have had to have created this new law.

**This article is a bit mis-leading then, almost like fear mongering. ** It could very well be the case that Australia simply didn’t have the necessary, essential and common laws would allow for Police to effectively deal with abusive protestors.

In Canada, we have many laws to deal with that exact kind of protestor.

Causing disturbance, indecent exhibition, loitering, etc.
175. (1) Every one who
(a) not being in a dwelling-house, causes a disturbance in or near a public place,
(i) by fighting, screaming, shouting, swearing, singing or using insulting or obscene language,
(ii) by being drunk, or
(iii) by impeding or molesting other persons,
(b) openly exposes or exhibits an indecent exhibition in a public place,
(c) loiters in a public place and in any way obstructs persons who are in that place, or

OR

Arrest for breach of peace
31. (1) Every peace officer who witnesses a breach of the peace and every one who lawfully assists the peace officer is justified in arresting any person whom he finds committing the breach of the peace or who, on reasonable grounds, he believes is about to join in or renew the breach of the peace.

OR

Mischief
430. (1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully

…

(c) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property; or

(d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property.

 

[Eden]

Strange that People don’t have the right to Peaceful assembly in Australia.

I guess Catholics won’t be able to protest outside of Abortion clinics in Australia anymore…this law would also apply to those Catholic Protestors.

Laws prohibiting peaceful assembly work both ways!

It depends though. If it crosses the line from peaceful assembly to shoving condoms aggressively into kids’ hands after they’ve politely refused, then the police* should* step in.

 

[LilyM]

So clearly, this is simply a matter of Australia not having had a law on the books to have adequately dealt with such behaviour, otherwise, they would not have had to have created this new law.

**This article is a bit mis-leading then, almost like fear mongering. ** It could very well be the case that Australia simply didn’t have the necessary, essential and common laws would allow for Police to effectively deal with abusive protestors.

In Canada, we have many laws to deal with that exact kind of protestor.

Causing disturbance, indecent exhibition, loitering, etc.
175. (1) Every one who
(a) not being in a dwelling-house, causes a disturbance in or near a public place,
(i) by fighting, screaming, shouting, swearing, singing or using insulting or obscene language,
(ii) by being drunk, or
(iii) by impeding or molesting other persons,
(b) openly exposes or exhibits an indecent exhibition in a public place,
(c) loiters in a public place and in any way obstructs persons who are in that place, or

OR

Arrest for breach of peace
31. (1) Every peace officer who witnesses a breach of the peace and every one who lawfully assists the peace officer is justified in arresting any person whom he finds committing the breach of the peace or who, on reasonable grounds, he believes is about to join in or renew the breach of the peace.

OR

Mischief
430. (1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully

…

(c) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property; or

(d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property.

No. Our present laws are more than adequate. These ones do toughen up the penalties concerning World Youth Day events in particular. That is to provide a particular deterrent against unruly behaviour at these events, which are being beamed around the world, and where unruly behaviour would make us look particularly bad.

It’s like parents who may set a higher standard on how their children behave in church than they would at home. Not allowing them to eat or run around, for example. This is not because the children behave badly at home at all, but because the nature of church is such that it demands a higher standard of behaviour while there.

 

[Digitonomy]

So what degree of freedom of expression is guaranteed under Australian law, and in what ways is it broader or narrower than American law?

 

[LilyM]

So what degree of freedom of expression is guaranteed under Australian law, and in what ways is it broader or narrower than American law?

You think I care about American law? Sheesh! As to Australian law - it’s been way too many moons since I studied that particular topic, I won’t attempt to give an answer.

 

[onetimeposter]

Australia seems to be using a sledge hammer to swat a fly.