Australian Traditional Anglicans vote to become Catholic [CN-USA]

[gurneyhalleck1]

Game, this post is harsh to put it mildly. Shame on him? He had every right to get up and walk out with that type of “prayer” going on, butchering the Holy Trinity and speaking with pagan lingo like that. I laud what he did and think the shame should go on anyone who buys into or is willing to sit through that tripe. The guy obviously has a conscience and the Holy Spirit is actively working in his life.

As for the other post comparing the Catholic Church being in a collapse compared to the Anglican Church, you’ve got to be kidding right? There are Anglican splinter groups right and left, the REC, TEC, TCA, AMIA, CANA, enough acronyms to kill a herd of rhinos! The TEC is in total full-on heresy mode, their attendance numbers have plummeted, TEC is suing the pants off of ACNA, ACNA has an archbishop who ordains women and is getting under Jack Iker’s skin, ACNA is ordaining these Calvary Chapel guys who have no notion of the priesthood, the Anglican Church in Sydney, Australia allows lay people to “consecrate” the Eucharist, Katharine Schiori is spending money like she’s printing it in the basement to sue the heck out of every conservative ACNA parish/diocese she can, Lambeth is poorly-attended, the CofE won’t recognize ACNA but many Anglican provinces will, some dioceses like San Joaquin in my area are members of not only ACNA but Southern Cone having bizaare dual-citizenship, guys like JI Packer are being given the boot, there is hate, venom, dissention, gossip, slandar, lawsuits, wasted funds, defections, pure chaos. And you actually think this total nuclear meltdown is any bit whatsoever even remotely in the realm of any Catholic issues?

Considering what you and the other 10 did, I don’t blame him. That was uncalled for; you could have remained silent and discreetly left at an appropriate time, but you and the others obviously chose to make a statement. Shame on you!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

As always, you’re a class act, Father Mark, and a credit to the collar. We can hardly wait to have you presiding over Mass as a priest in the Catholic Church. You’re a blessing to the Church. Your posts are always spot-on. God bless you this Lent!

There will be more news like this in the near future. Those Anglican who wish to come into commuion with the Church are having their Synods this month and in March. The plan is to present the official reply to the Holy Father by Easter.

From my sources, the Ordinariates are planned to be set up by the end of June 2010. There are many former Anglican priests and Bishops already in the Church that can be used to head the ordinariates. The Anglican Use parishes of the Catholic Church are being released into the Ordinariate to help give a foundation and I do believe guidance for incoming Anglicans.

In the States, the Bishops’ Synod is to be in March (latest) and the plan is for the Bishops to go Rome to present themselves to the Holy Father. They have already submitted to the Catholic Catechism.

All this said, do not expect a huge flood of Anglicans. Most are very protestant in theology and mindset. There has also be a great deal of misinformation floating around that has confused clergy and laity. Lastestly, Anglicanism has been in confusion since the mid
20th century and has been splintering since 1873. Many Anglicans have heard before that this action or that action or Bishop will fix things. Only to see it get worse. Many have developed a bunker mentality and to just be honest…Anglicans are use to fighting, clawing, calling names and not working together for at least 40 years. Authority is out the window. Don’t like your Bishop, just vote to leave and join another one. Just go to Anglican web boards.

Once this is seen to work, you will start seeing those who are tired of the fighting, drama, etc looking seriously at the Church. Those who are protestant, the vast majority, not so much.

Also, how much of the liturgy and praxis will the Anglicans retain. Tradition and liturgy are very important to the types of Anglicans the Holy Father is attracting.

All in all, the foundation is being laid. Let us pray for the Holy Father and the Anglicans coming into communion. The evil one and his minnions are working overtime to derail this reunion. Let us also pray for the Anglican clergy who will be leaving salary, pensions (if their church controls it)and possibly house to follow the will of Christ and to be one with the Church. Anglicans who are coming are stepping out in faith of the Lord and faith in the Church. They will be leaving much, if not everything behind. Many will lose long friendships and some family. Let us not forget the personal aspects of this faith walk.

Fr.Mark

(Hey, I don’t have to swim, the Holy Father has built a bridge!)

 

[GKC]

Game, this post is harsh to put it mildly. Shame on him? He had every right to get up and walk out with that type of “prayer” going on, butchering the Holy Trinity and speaking with pagan lingo like that. I laud what he did and think the shame should go on anyone who buys into or is willing to sit through that tripe. The guy obviously has a conscience and the Holy Spirit is actively working in his life.

As for the other post comparing the Catholic Church being in a collapse compared to the Anglican Church, you’ve got to be kidding right? There are Anglican splinter groups right and left, the REC, TEC, TCA, AMIA, CANA, enough acronyms to kill a herd of rhinos! The TEC is in total full-on heresy mode, their attendance numbers have plummeted, TEC is suing the pants off of ACNA, ACNA has an archbishop who ordains women and is getting under Jack Iker’s skin, ACNA is ordaining these Calvary Chapel guys who have no notion of the priesthood, the Anglican Church in Sydney, Australia allows lay people to “consecrate” the Eucharist, Katharine Schiori is spending money like she’s printing it in the basement to sue the heck out of every conservative ACNA parish/diocese she can, Lambeth is poorly-attended, the CofE won’t recognize ACNA but many Anglican provinces will, some dioceses like San Joaquin in my area are members of not only ACNA but Southern Cone having bizaare dual-citizenship, guys like JI Packer are being given the boot, there is hate, venom, dissention, gossip, slandar, lawsuits, wasted funds, defections, pure chaos. And you actually think this total nuclear meltdown is any bit whatsoever even remotely in the realm of any Catholic issues?

Not to forget us Continuers.

And the gracious Katherine has begun to stretch forth her hand, toward the Episcopal diocese of South Carolina.

*The Shadow of that Hyddeous Strength

Sax Myle and More it is of Length.*

GKC

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

O flower of warriors, beware of that trap.
Choose, dear Beowulf, the better part,
eternal rewards. Do not give way to pride.
For a brief while your strength is in bloom
but it fades quickly; and soon there will follow
illness or the sword to lay you low,
or a sudden fire or surge of water
or jabbing blade or javelin from the air
or repellent age. Your piercing eye
will dim and darken; and death will arrive,
dear warrior, to sweep you away
You’re not the only one who can quote! LOL

Not to forget us Continuers.

And the gracious Katherine has begun to stretch forth her hand, toward the Episcopal diocese of South Carolina.

*The Shadow of that Hyddeous Strength

Sax Myle and More it is of Length.*

GKC

 

[gamewell45]

Game, this post is harsh to put it mildly. Shame on him? He had every right to get up and walk out with that type of “prayer” going on, butchering the Holy Trinity and speaking with pagan lingo like that. I laud what he did and think the shame should go on anyone who buys into or is willing to sit through that tripe. The guy obviously has a conscience and the Holy Spirit is actively working in his life.

As for the other post comparing the Catholic Church being in a collapse compared to the Anglican Church, you’ve got to be kidding right? There are Anglican splinter groups right and left, the REC, TEC, TCA, AMIA, CANA, enough acronyms to kill a herd of rhinos! The TEC is in total full-on heresy mode, their attendance numbers have plummeted, TEC is suing the pants off of ACNA, ACNA has an archbishop who ordains women and is getting under Jack Iker’s skin, ACNA is ordaining these Calvary Chapel guys who have no notion of the priesthood, the Anglican Church in Sydney, Australia allows lay people to “consecrate” the Eucharist, Katharine Schiori is spending money like she’s printing it in the basement to sue the heck out of every conservative ACNA parish/diocese she can, Lambeth is poorly-attended, the CofE won’t recognize ACNA but many Anglican provinces will, some dioceses like San Joaquin in my area are members of not only ACNA but Southern Cone having bizaare dual-citizenship, guys like JI Packer are being given the boot, there is hate, venom, dissention, gossip, slandar, lawsuits, wasted funds, defections, pure chaos. And you actually think this total nuclear meltdown is any bit whatsoever even remotely in the realm of any Catholic issues?

I appreciate your thoughts on this but i have to tell you I think its right on line and not too harsh. I f was a parishioner in the church when that happened i’d be totally offended. It would be the same thing if I went into a Catholic Church and didn’t like what i was hearing and got up in the middle of the prayer or homily and walked out with other like minded people; I think the Priest would be highly irritated with me and the others. And you know what? He’d be justified in being upset.

The other items you mentioned in there about Schiori and others is strictly political foder and i have no desire to debate that with you as we will not agree nor compromise on the issues.

 

[GKC]

O flower of warriors, beware of that trap.
Choose, dear Beowulf, the better part,
eternal rewards. Do not give way to pride.
For a brief while your strength is in bloom
but it fades quickly; and soon there will follow
illness or the sword to lay you low,
or a sudden fire or surge of water
or jabbing blade or javelin from the air
or repellent age. Your piercing eye
will dim and darken; and death will arrive,
dear warrior, to sweep you away
You’re not the only one who can quote! LOL

True. There’s that little button down there.,. and voila.

GKC

 

[chris_molter]

I appreciate your thoughts on this but i have to tell you I think its right on line and not too harsh. I f was a parishioner in the church when that happened i’d be totally offended.

Except that when one walks into an Episcopal Church, you expect to see Rite 1 or Rite 2, generally, as written. You have to understand that to many Christians, hearing the Lord’s Prayer altered to include things like “mother and father” is little different than adding “Hera, Kali, and the Crone”. Neither have any place in Christian worship and to hear such a thing at an Episcopal altar would be taken as an insulting blasphemy. As a lifelong Episcopalian, I would have walked out as well.

I can understand that others have a different point of view, but from ours, can you understand the unwillingness to remain, and that it’s not intended as a personal insult or rudeness?

If the departing parishoners had done something to further disrupt the service (shouting… overturning the table of honey-raisin cakes… I don’t know) then I would condemn such behavior.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Considering what you and the other 10 did, I don’t blame him. That was uncalled for; you could have remained silent and discreetly left at an appropriate time, but you and the others obviously chose to make a statement. Shame on you!

To be fair, I don’t think he mentioned getting out and causing a ruckus. He may have left quietly throughout the service, which I think he is implying.

What pronouncement by the priest was disgraceful, intolerable.

 

[tonyh12]

Before returning to the True Church (i was Christened but never attended with my parents) i mistakingly tried out several denominations : the local Baptists did a similar thing which i found quite shocking , they put the Lords Prayer up on OHP but it had been doctored to a modern version (the Pastor was suggesting we commit to memory this version!!! i think the reasoning was it was more in tune with today’s modern language)

I am pleased / greatly relieved to have found the Catholic Church can be depended on in such matters (i think the word is “constancy”), i feel being guided otherwise is disrespectful / irrelevant at the very least

 

[tonyh12]

(Just to add as i cannot edit)

… I think the minister’s intentions were wellto simplify or bring in line with modern language, but i feel more comfortable with the New Jerusalem interpretation (the one i was taught as a Child).

I did not walk out but i can understand any one for doing this, but i also pray for Unity of the Body of Christ , ideally all the denominations would lock up their doors and convert! But unless they do this i see the need to still shake hands and wish Peace on my Baptist /Anglican/Methodist etc friends

(This is just one of quite a few reasons why i am relieved to have found the Catholic Church )

 

[GKC]

Except that when one walks into an Episcopal Church, you expect to see Rite 1 or Rite 2, generally, as written. You have to understand that to many Christians, hearing the Lord’s Prayer altered to include things like “mother and father” is little different than adding “Hera, Kali, and the Crone”. Neither have any place in Christian worship and to hear such a thing at an Episcopal altar would be taken as an insulting blasphemy. As a lifelong Episcopalian, I would have walked out as well.

I can understand that others have a different point of view, but from ours, can you understand the unwillingness to remain, and that it’s not intended as a personal insult or rudeness?

If the departing parishoners had done something to further disrupt the service (shouting… overturning the table of honey-raisin cakes… I don’t know) then I would condemn such behavior.

Or, if they are lucky, a 1928 service might be seen. Our bishop and priest attended a near-by Episcopal special service, which was from the 1928 BCP. The Episcopal parish where it was held was unfamiliar with the Book. And, as our acoylte who served as thurifer discovered, unfamilar with incense, too.

GKC

 

[anode]

Many have developed a bunker mentality and to just be honest…Anglicans are use to fighting, clawing, calling names and not working together for at least 40 years. Authority is out the window. Don’t like your Bishop, just vote to leave and join another one. Just go to Anglican web boards.

The same could be said for the Roman Catholic Church in the US.

 

[GKC]

Many have developed a bunker mentality and to just be honest…Anglicans are use to fighting, clawing, calling names and not working together for at least 40 years. Authority is out the window. Don’t like your Bishop, just vote to leave and join another one. Just go to Anglican web boards.

The same could be said for the Roman Catholic Church in the US.

Expand on that thought.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Your original statement to which I was replying in my second paragraph, was that the Catholic Church was collapsing and falling apart as much as the Anglican. From even a neutral point of view, I couldn’t disagree more and that’s why I mention the “fodder” you reference. It’s not meant to be debated endlessly, I’m just pointing out that the Catholic Church has some areas of needed improvement like cleaning up the liturgy, getting rid of some innovations during Mass by some folks, getting our universities to be more in line with the Church and true to orthodoxy, and we do need to continue to strive to keep a safe environment for kids in light of the scandals and obvious shortcomings in the Church with children in recent years. We also need to give more respect and access to traditional Catholics who want the Tridentine Latin liturgy. But, to compare these areas with the vast myriad disfunction, chaos, civil war, venom, law suits, attacks, splintering, and debacles Anglicanism has gone through since 2000 or so is, in my opinion, more than comparing apples and oranges, it’s like comparing a watermelon to a chick pea. That was my point. God bless, Game.

I appreciate your thoughts on this but i have to tell you I think its right on line and not too harsh. I f was a parishioner in the church when that happened i’d be totally offended. It would be the same thing if I went into a Catholic Church and didn’t like what i was hearing and got up in the middle of the prayer or homily and walked out with other like minded people; I think the Priest would be highly irritated with me and the others. And you know what? He’d be justified in being upset.

The other items you mentioned in there about Schiori and others is strictly political foder and i have no desire to debate that with you as we will not agree nor compromise on the issues.

 

[chris_molter]

Many have developed a bunker mentality and to just be honest…Anglicans are use to fighting, clawing, calling names and not working together for at least 40 years. Authority is out the window. Don’t like your Bishop, just vote to leave and join another one. Just go to Anglican web boards.

The same could be said for the Roman Catholic Church in the US.

This is very true, with one particular exception:

“Leaving the Bishop”: Catholic ecclesiology doesn’t lend itself to the denomination-hopping phenomenon that Protestants are used to. When Catholics fight, disagree, and parish-hop, normally, they stay in communion with each other (the SSPX/SSPV and Wymynpryst/CTA/Newchurch types excepted). When Protestants do the same, they either splinter (Continuum), denomination hop (heading to LCMS, EO, RCC), or take over by majority vote (TEC).

Funny how the mentality and behavior is alike in many ways, but because of our differing understandings of how “church” works, we take widely varied actions.

 

[elgar]

This is very true, with one particular exception:

“Leaving the Bishop”: Catholic ecclesiology doesn’t lend itself to the denomination-hopping phenomenon that Protestants are used to. When Catholics fight, disagree, and parish-hop, normally, they stay in communion with each other (the SSPX/SSPV and Wymynpryst/CTA/Newchurch types excepted). When Protestants do the same, they either splinter (Continuum), denomination hop (heading to LCMS, EO, RCC), or take over by majority vote (TEC).

Funny how the mentality and behavior is alike in many ways, but because of our differing understandings of how “church” works, we take widely varied actions.

My experience is that Catholics church shop just as do Protestants. They just find a more liberal or conservative parish within their denomination. Liberal Catholics are really no different in their beliefs than liberal Protestants. They either ignore the teachings of the Church, are ignorant to the teachings or are in denial. Some really do think the Church will eventually come around to their way of thinking. I’ve heard RC priests say that women’s ordination will eventually happen. I really think they believe this to be true and they are telling their congregations this.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Just out of curiosity, elgar, are you located in Michigan?

My experience is that Catholics church shop just as do Protestants. They just find a more liberal or conservative parish within their denomination. Liberal Catholics are really no different in their beliefs than liberal Protestants. They either ignore the teachings of the Church, are ignorant to the teachings or are in denial. Some really do think the Church will eventually come around to their way of thinking. I’ve heard RC priests say that women’s ordination will eventually happen. I really think they believe this to be true and they are telling their congregations this.

 

[gamewell45]

Your original statement to which I was replying in my second paragraph, was that the Catholic Church was collapsing and falling apart as much as the Anglican. From even a neutral point of view, I couldn’t disagree more and that’s why I mention the “fodder” you reference. It’s not meant to be debated endlessly, I’m just pointing out that the Catholic Church has some areas of needed improvement like cleaning up the liturgy, getting rid of some innovations during Mass by some folks, getting our universities to be more in line with the Church and true to orthodoxy, and we do need to continue to strive to keep a safe environment for kids in light of the scandals and obvious shortcomings in the Church with children in recent years. We also need to give more respect and access to traditional Catholics who want the Tridentine Latin liturgy. But, to compare these areas with the vast myriad disfunction, chaos, civil war, venom, law suits, attacks, splintering, and debacles Anglicanism has gone through since 2000 or so is, in my opinion, more than comparing apples and oranges, it’s like comparing a watermelon to a chick pea. That was my point. God bless, Game.

I see where the confusion is; I didn’t explain myself properly; what I meant was in the second paragraph where said that the Episcopal Church was no more falling apart then the Catholic Church was falling apart; in other words I meant that niether church was falling apart. I should have explained it better then i had.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Or, if they are lucky, a 1928 service might be seen. Our bishop and priest attended a near-by Episcopal special service, which was from the 1928 BCP. The Episcopal parish where it was held was unfamiliar with the Book. And, as our acoylte who served as thurifer discovered, unfamilar with incense, too.

GKC

Our ECUSA parish in ultra-trendy-liberal tree-hugging Berkeley uses the 1928 Prayerbook for most of its services, including once-a month Morning Prayer. Our building isn’t very big, so we are, sadly, non-smoking. Apparently we have a thurible somewhere, and we had a high church rector in the distant past, but our rafters aren’t exactly as high as Amiens, so we foreswear the incense.

What is good is that we are quite close to the provincial seminary, and thus our seminary interns get a dose of 1928, something they would ordinarily not know at all.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Gotcha…I agree that the Episcopal Church isn’t exactly “falling apart” but financially, attendance-wise, morally, and in relationship with the rest of the Anglican Communion, it’s in a heap of trouble and corroded.

I see where the confusion is; I didn’t explain myself properly; what I meant was in the second paragraph where said that the Episcopal Church was no more falling apart then the Catholic Church was falling apart; in other words I meant that niether church was falling apart. I should have explained it better then i had.