Author exposes gay lifestyle

[gilliam]

Libero:

I am trying to show that I would want the church to attempt to try and expand it’s knowledge in areas that have been unprecedented in church history before, I think we could learn alot about actually studying homosexuality and the human mind, using psychologists, rather than just dismissing it. Homosexual love, does not equal homosexual sex. We may further our understanding of humanity, which I think would be a good thing, and we may even realise that the life for the homosexual does not have to be as hard as it is.

Libero,
The Church knows that people can have deep friendships between each other without having sex. You need to realize that Church is over 2,000 years old and has a great deal of experience with the human condition. Love a gift from God. As is chaste attraction for another human being. An attraction that urges you to get to know that person better. Many volumns have been written by Church leaders, mystics, theologians, prose writers and poets on the subject.

You need to keep that separate in your mind from any lustful attractions you might have towards someone you will not be able to have sex with since you are not married to them… no matter what gender they happen to be.

Again, the sin is homosexual sexual behavior. Not lust (which is a vice, not a sin unless you act upon that vice) and not love. Never love. Love is from God. But the devil (yes I believe in a devil) is the great deceiving spirit (the Native Americans called him Coyote), who is very skilled at taking a gift from God, mixing it with a vice (like lust) and getting us to convince ourselves that sinful behavior is just fine and (utilizing the vice of pride), convincing ourselves that we are the first ones to figure that out Well, we are not.

This is nothing new, by the way. The Church has been dealing with lust, pride and with the devil for a great many centuries now.

The life of any person who tries to deceive himself that a gravely disordered behavior is just fine and dandy will remain a very difficult life.

Your not dealing with Church law here, your dealing with Natural Law. That law that is imbedded in every human being and has been since the dawn of time. It isn’t going way no matter how much you might try to rationalize it away.

 

[goofyjim]

gilliam:

Libero,
The Church knows that people can have deep friendships between each other without having sex. You need to realize that Church is over 2,000 years old and has a great deal of experience with the human condition. Love a gift from God. As is chaste attraction for another human being. An attraction that urges you to get to know that person better. Many volumns have been written by Church leaders, mystics, theologians, prose writers and poets on the subject.

You need to keep that separate in your mind from any lustful attractions you might have towards someone you will not be able to have sex with since you are not married to them… no matter what gender they happen to be.

Again, the sin is homosexual sexual behavior. Not lust (which is a vice, not a sin unless you act upon that vice) and not love. Never love. Love is from God. But the devil (yes I believe in a devil) is the great deceiving spirit (the Native Americans called him Coyote), who is very skilled at taking a gift from God, mixing it with a vice (like lust) and getting us to convince ourselves that sinful behavior is just fine and (utilizing the vice of pride), convincing ourselves that we are the first ones to figure that out Well, we are not.

This is nothing new, by the way. The Church has been dealing with lust, pride and with the devil for a great many centuries now.

The life of any person who tries to deceive himself that a gravely disordered behavior is just fine and dandy will remain a very difficult life.

Your not dealing with Church law here, your dealing with Natural Law. That law that is imbedded in every human being and has been since the dawn of time. It isn’t going way no matter how much you might try to rationalize it away.

Why is lust not a sin? I always thought it was mentioned in the seven deadly sins and am confused when some people say it isn’t.

 

[gilliam]

goofyjim:

Why is lust not a sin? I always thought it was mentioned in the seven deadly sins and am confused when some people say it isn’t.

Good question and very pertanent to this discussion.

Lust is a temptation. A temptation is not a sin unless you yield to it. An easy way to remember is that sins are behaviors.

For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met:

1. You have to do something grave
2. You have to know it is gave
3. You have to do it anyway.

The CCC words it as follows: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1856

 

[Chris_Jacobsen]

As society continues to make illicit and promiscuous sexual activity more attractive, homosexual activity is going to become more attractive.

The approval of society for illicit and promiscuous sexual activity in general, leads to the approval of homosexual activity.

Homosexuals are very promiscuous. So, if someone wants to be promiscuous, his chances of being promiscuous increase if he engages in homosexual activity.

The solution is to make all sexually suggestive pictures, advertisements, magazine and newspaper articles, television and radio programs, and conversation illegal. Furthermore, the laws prohibiting fornication, adultery, and divorce should be put back on the books.

When society as a whole becomes pure and chaste, homosexual activity will come to an end.

 

[goofyjim]

Chris Jacobsen:

As society continues to make illicit and promiscuous sexual activity more attractive, homosexual activity is going to become more attractive.

The approval of society for illicit and promiscuous sexual activity in general, leads to the approval of homosexual activity.

Homosexuals are very promiscuous. So, if someone wants to be promiscuous, his chances of being promiscuous increase if he engages in homosexual activity.

The solution is to make all sexually suggestive pictures, advertisements, magazine and newspaper articles, television and radio programs, and conversation illegal. Furthermore, the laws prohibiting fornication, adultery, and divorce should be put back on the books.

When society as a whole becomes pure and chaste, homosexual activity will come to an end.

Sounds like Farenheit 451. I’m not for that.

 

[Jennifer123]

TheRam:

ok, before i comment, i struggle to understand something…what is SSA? Sorry for my ignorance, and i want to comment based on knowing the terms in your post…thank you!

SSA = same sex attraction

It’s a term used for the homosexual condition given by medical professionals who believe it is a “disordered” condition. The common medical establishment no longer views homosexuality as a disordered condition, so when you hear the term SSA it’s usually referenced by someone who views homosexuality in this way.

Here’s an article that describes development of SSA and has ideas about mentorship with men who are struggling with SSA. May be some good ideas for those who are lonely in their struggle, God be with you!!
narth.com/docs/donaldson.html

 

[MikeinSD]

Chris Jacobsen:

As society continues to make illicit and promiscuous sexual activity more attractive, homosexual activity is going to become more attractive.

The approval of society for illicit and promiscuous sexual activity in general, leads to the approval of homosexual activity.

Homosexuals are very promiscuous. So, if someone wants to be promiscuous, his chances of being promiscuous increase if he engages in homosexual activity.

The solution is to make all sexually suggestive pictures, advertisements, magazine and newspaper articles, television and radio programs, and conversation illegal. Furthermore, the laws prohibiting fornication, adultery, and divorce should be put back on the books.

When society as a whole becomes pure and chaste, homosexual activity will come to an end.

When a society makes something illegal, that means men with guns enforce society’s laws. People either obey society’s laws or go to jail. Or get shot. And their money and property seized. Just want to make sure that is what you mean.

 

[Libero]

Your not dealing with Church law here, your dealing with Natural Law. That law that is imbedded in every human being and has been since the dawn of time. It isn’t going way no matter how much you might try to rationalize it away.

You see, the problem which I have with Natural Law, is that it is so old, it was made centuries ago, and by Saints and important theologians, whose understanding of humans were influenced by scripture. It does not truly show the nature of humans, because it does not have any real modern day understanding of the mind. I think we would really benefit from employing researchers to try and help us update - or build upon our current understanding of the Natural Law.

As society continues to make illicit and promiscuous sexual activity more attractive, homosexual activity is going to become more attractive.

The approval of society for illicit and promiscuous sexual activity in general, leads to the approval of homosexual activity.

Homosexuals are very promiscuous. So, if someone wants to be promiscuous, his chances of being promiscuous increase if he engages in homosexual activity.

The solution is to make all sexually suggestive pictures, advertisements, magazine and newspaper articles, television and radio programs, and conversation illegal. Furthermore, the laws prohibiting fornication, adultery, and divorce should be put back on the books.

When society as a whole becomes pure and chaste, homosexual activity will come to an end.

This all sounds a bit extreme, I was expecting to see sterilisation on the list…

 

[Christus_Rex]

Libero:

This all sounds a bit extreme, I was expecting to see sterilisation on the list…

It should be…

 

[Libero]

It should be…

Did you know, that America sterilised babies that were born blind and deaf etc. up until the 1950’s I was shocked when I found out, but apparently it was quite common, Germany did it until after WWII.

 

[goofyjim]

Christus Rex:

It should be…

Sterilization would not be in accord with Church teaching.:tsktsk:

 

[Christus_Rex]

goofyjim:

Sterilization would not be in accord with Church teaching.:tsktsk:

I know I’m saying its a bad thing!

 

[gilliam]

Libero,
Let’s talk about Natural Law for a bit. Natural Law is what makes us human. It isn’t old or new, but imbedded within the conscious of every human being and put there, we Catholic’s believe, by God. What is true about it is that it is present in the heart of hearts of every human being no matter where they are or how they were raised.
People have been studying Natural Law since philosophy was first invented, many centuries ago. Way before Christ came to the earth. And the consensus of what is Natural Law was pretty well set before Christ came as well. What it does is define a set of moral norms that were with us in the beginning and are still with us today.
Some parts of Natural Law that you probably agree with:
Ø All people are created equal

Ø All people have certain rights they are born with that can only be taken away, temporarily by other people (like freedom of religion, freedom of speech, liberty, and looking for a happy live with people they love, etc.)
There are other parts of Natural Law that you may disagree with, but are there non the less:
Ø Humans are meant to find a single mate, live in a familial unit and have children (yes, we are meant to breed).
Ø Humans are meant to search for God and the meaning of life
As far as what we know about Natural Law being written a long time ago by the Saints, well, that isn’t quite correct. Yes, the Saints wrote about it, but so did the Greek, Chinese, and Indian Philosophers. Philosophers and legal scholars are writing about it today. It is the way they can determine if laws are just or not.
The important thing for this thread is that homosexual sexual behavior goes against natural law and the laws of God. Because of this fact, you will never be truly happy nor truly in sync with what God wants living a life that includes homosexual sexual behavior.

 

[Libero]

But why does Natural Law have to be a closed book? It seems so much more logical if we modify, after we have become so much more intelligent.

 

[gilliam]

Libero:

But why does Natural Law have to be a closed book? It seems so much more logical if we modify, after we have become so much more intelligent.

Natural Law has nothing to do with intelligence. It is the moral law that is engrained in human kind. It doesn’t change. Just as the Church’s teachings on faith and morals have not changed over the millenia. Some things in life are permanent. Like the morality of God’s law engrained in each human being.

 

[Jennifer123]

Libero:

But why does Natural Law have to be a closed book? It seems so much more logical if we modify, after we have become so much more intelligent.

Hi-

God tells us to be more focused on obtaining wisdom rather than knowledge. The wonderful thing about Our Lord is that one only has to be pure of heart to truly understand things about the universe that the most brilliant people in existence, even today, can not even begin to understand.

God uses us all, even the lowly, to share important insights about the human condition that escape the most brilliant thinkers of our time.

THat’s not to say knowledge doesn’t have its place, knowledge can be a wonderful thing, but only if its used for the glory of God. The only way to true knowledge is wisdom.

Today, many intelligent people are using their knowledge to create despicable abominations before God, such as human-animal hybrids and such. IMHO, its knowledge that will be our demise. Wisdom always transcends science.

Psalm 111:10:“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all those who practice it. His praise endures for ever!”

Proverbs 1:7:“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.”

 

[goofyjim]

Jennifer123:

SSA = same sex attraction

It’s a term used for the homosexual condition given by medical professionals who believe it is a “disordered” condition. The common medical establishment no longer views homosexuality as a disordered condition, so when you hear the term SSA it’s usually referenced by someone who views homosexuality in this way.

Here’s an article that describes development of SSA and has ideas about mentorship with men who are struggling with SSA. May be some good ideas for those who are lonely in their struggle, God be with you!!
narth.com/docs/donaldson.html

I have a wonderful relationship with my father and the SSA has not gone away. I have absolutely no deficiency in my masculinity. I know I’m a mature man. SSA by itself does not require change but if one wants the option of doing such it’s fine. I simply keep it in check through my prayer life.

 

[rlee]

Once again, I am the author whose innocent, unassuming article inspired this avalanche of responses. And reading the responses, I am struck by the fact that hope and desire are impossible to refute using mere reason. The desire to find happiness through sex with someone of the same gender is so deep rooted in most homosexuals, that facts don’t mean much. To be honest, I expected as much when I wrote the article. But the power and the resoucefulness of denial are really remarkable, and I have to confess, somewhat amusing. One reader ignores the contents of a long article and simply focuses on the use of the word fag (once) to discredit my argument. Several others allude to heterosexual misconduct, as if it’s existence somehow undermined the case I was trying to make. (Why? Because misery loves company? Because no one will be lonely in hell?) And I am really in no position to cast stones because I refused to face the truth for more than twenty years myself. But would those of you who are still in denial after reading my article please do me a favor? Twenty years from now, would you please write me again, and give me an update on how you are doing? Nothing gives me more satisfaction that being able to say, “I told you so.”

P.S. Given the humorlessness that is pandemic in the gay community, I should probably close by commenting that that last comment was a joke. Really it was. Honest.

 

[Magster]

RLEE - thank you so much for writing the article. I think it will help me and many others better understand the gay culture as well as our gay friends and family members. It can be so difficult to maintain good relations with gay friends and family members who are often very ready to pounce on the Catholic church as being “homophobic.” Do you have any hints on how to relate to people who are openly living a gay lifestyle, of which I don’t approve, although I personally am very fond of the individuals and admire their many traits and talents? I often find myself avoiding situations where I know I am likely to be accused of being a homophobe merely because I am a practicing Catholic.

 

[rlee]

I struggle with that too. But remember this, a phobia is an obsessive fear. It suggests someone foaming at the mouth with rage or cringing in fear of the unknown. Does that describe you? I remember when I was an openly gay man how incongruous it felt to me to call a little blue haired Baptist lady, in whose mouth butter would not melt and who obviously wished me no harm, a “homophobe” when she was simply standing up for what she believed. If you can do that, without being judgmental or condemning, you are implicitly calling into question the whole idea of homophobia, which has evolved into a weapon used by the gay rights establishment to silence their critics. And you might even be planting seeds in the minds of your gay friends that will bear fruit later. At least that is the way it was with me.