Authoritative statement on communion while kneeling?

[MarkThompson]

Certainly. Here you are.

Nov 28, '10, 2:57 pm
paperwight66
Regular Member Join Date: August 29, 2010
Location: Liverpool UK
Posts: 525
Religion: Catholic

Pope Benedict and CITH

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An interesting quote from ‘Light of the World’, the book-length interview published this week, and highlighted in The Tablet (www.thetablet.co.uk)

His Holiness said,

'I am not opposed in principle to Communion in the hand; I have both administered and received Communion this way myself…

The idea behind my current practice of having people kneel and receive Communion on the tongue was to send a signal and to underscore the Real Presence with an exclamation point. One very important reason is that there is a great danger of superficiality precisely in the kinds of mass events we hold in St. Peter’s. …I have heard of people who, after receiving Communion, stick the host in their wallet to take home as a kind of souvenir’.’.

The Tablet also reported that Queen Sophia of Spain did not kneel when it was her turn to receive from him during his recent visit to Spain, and that she also stretched out her hands. The Pope gave her CITH without comment (although the cleric standing by nearly had a fit).

The Pope saying he was ‘not opposed in principle to Communion in the hand’ will come as a surprise to some, I think.

Good, find, Paperwight. You can see a bit more of the context from the Holy Father’s book at this SSPX site here, and some additional discussion about this passage here from CNS. Looks like the Tablet, a 171-year-old publication which has published works by authors as diverse as Graham Greene and Joseph Ratzinger, got it right on this one.

 

[drforjc]

Very well put. Those obstinate in the demand to kneel seem to forget about the accompanying language on catchesis outside of Mass.

That seems to have disappeared from the new GIRM. No mention of catechesis.

 

[benedictgal]

Very well put. Those obstinate in the demand to kneel seem to forget about the accompanying language on catchesis outside of Mass.

This is a rather rude comment, considering the following citation from the 2011 GIRM:

1. The Priest then takes the paten or ciborium and approaches the communicants, who usually come up in procession.

It is not permitted for the faithful to take the consecrated Bread or the sacred chalice by themselves and, still less, to hand them on from one to another among themselves. The norm established for the Dioceses of the United States of America is that Holy Communion is to be received standing, unless an individual member of the faithful wishes to receive Communion while kneeling (Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction, Redemptionis Sacramentum, March 25, 2004, no. 91).

Thus, the “catechesis” section has been stricken. By the way, the GIRM is now in force.

 

[nice2000]

paperwight66;8304731:

He receives CITH because he is ordained. Concelebrants do employ CITH. Would you please cite the direct quote from the Holy Father?

I did cite the information. I gave you the link. The Holy Father said it. I believe him.

 

[benedictgal]

benedictgal;8304742:

I did cite the information. I gave you the link. The Holy Father said it. I believe him.

What the person quoted was actually a snippet from the Tablet, which is not always, as I have found, a reliable source. What I requested was a direct quote from the book itself, not a publication’s taking the quote and writing a story around it (and possibly putting a spin on what the Holy Father said).

When I get home this evening, I will post it from my copy of the book.

 

[nice2000]

nice2000;8305210:

What the person quoted was actually a snippet from the Tablet, which is not always, as I have found, a reliable source. What I requested was a direct quote from the book itself, not a publication’s taking the quote and writing a story around it (and possibly putting a spin on what the Holy Father said).

When I get home this evening, I will post it from my copy of the book.

I will continue to kneel for the King Jesus. You do you and I will do me. smile

 

[benedictgal]

benedictgal;8305230:

I will continue to kneel for the King Jesus. You do you and I will do me. smile

Somehow, I think that our posts and quotes are getting lost. I support the rights of those who wish to kneel. I do not know where you are getting that I do not. My reply was to the poster from the UK.

 

[paperwight66]

paperwight66;8304772:

The Tablet, as I have read it, is not necessarily the most reliable source. Maybe it used to be, but, now, it is the UK’s version of the National Catholic Reporter. It would be better to quote the actual book instead of reading a writer or magazine’s particular spin on it.

If the post is read more closely, it’s possible to see that the words were those of the Pope.

If you want further corroboration, please see the CNS link given by Mark Thompson.

The words are not a ‘writer’s or magazine’s particular spin’. They are the words used by the Pope himself.

I am surprised you compare The Tablet with the NCR.

 

[benedictgal]

If the post is read more closely, it’s possible to see that the words were those of the Pope.

If you want further corroboration, please see the CNS link given by Mark Thompson.

The words are not a ‘writer’s or magazine’s particular spin’. They are the words used by the Pope himself.

I have to say, comparing The Tablet to the NCR is hilarious.

But, it is not the complete quote. I would rather have the quote in its entirety taken directly from the book as opposed to something from the Tablet.

 

[paperwight66]

But, it is not the complete quote. I would rather have the quote in its entirety taken directly from the book as opposed to something from the Tablet.

Fair enough. As you say you have a copy, I would be interested to see all of the words of the Pope, incorporating those quoted of course. I’m afraid I can’t give you a page reference number, so I hope it won’t be difficult for you to find.

I look forward to reading it.

 

[danielswong]

This is what the 2011 GIRM states:

The norm established for the Dioceses of the United States of America is that Holy Communion is to be received standing,** unless an individual member of the faithful wishes to receive Communion while kneeling** (Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction, Redemptionis Sacramentum, March 25, 2004, no. 91).

The Referenced document states:

[91.] In distributing Holy Communion it is to be remembered that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who seek them in a reasonable manner, are rightly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them”.[177] Hence any baptized Catholic who is not prevented by law must be admitted to Holy Communion. Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing.

Kneeling “fits” within the guidelines, I understand it, and I’m not even a canon lawyer…

You are well within your rights as a Catholic to receive your Lord and God on your knees!

Thanks for this explanation. But I have another aspect to this question. In my diocese the Bishop has recently called for more reverence when receiving. Would it be valid to genuflect and then receive whilst standing for both kinds?

 

[YoungTradCath]

Thanks for this explanation. But I have another aspect to this question. In my diocese the Bishop has recently called for more reverence when receiving. Would it be valid to genuflect and then receive whilst standing for both kinds?

I believe the correct reverential posture before receiving is to do a bow of the head when you are second in line, the next to receive. Not a genuflection. Although I don’t think you’d be denied if you genuflected.

 

[nice2000]

nice2000;8305369:

Somehow, I think that our posts and quotes are getting lost. I support the rights of those who wish to kneel. I do not know where you are getting that I do not. My reply was to the poster from the UK.

My apologies. blushing

 

[zab]

If every seminarian accepted everything he was told by every formator in seminary they would be lost and the Church would be in very bad shape. Seminaries may be better now than they were 20 years ago but there are still many problems. The problems today are not so much from malice of formators but of ignorance due to their poor formation.

The correct procedure seems to be to obey those things that do not seem objectibly wrong while seeking confirmation if there appears to be a dispute.

That is what I am doing and the purpose of my first post. I was asking who and where to write for clarification.

People have provided documentation on this and other threads showing that a person is allowed to kneel for reception of Communion. But there is more to it that just what is the acceptable posture for the lay person to receive Communion. As others have pointed out, there is the matter of you being in the seminary and learning the importance of obedience. There is nothing wrong or irreverent with the reception of Communion while standing particularly when standing is the norm in the United States. The documents do mention the importance of keeping a uniformity of posture. While you are in training it is best to follow the request of your superiors in this matter and not to be confrontational. If one cannot be trusted to obey in small things then how can he be trusted to obey in greater things?

 

[paperwight66]

But, it is not the complete quote. I would rather have the quote in its entirety taken directly from the book as opposed to something from the Tablet.

Disappointingly, there doesn’t seem to be an online copy, but it is possible to download it as a free e-book, which is impressive.

Unfortunately, I don’t have a e-reader (yet) so we are still relying on your research in your real book, Benedictgal.

How’s it going? Please do let us have the complete quote when you can, although i know you are busy.

It’s such an important topic, and comes up so often. There’s yet another claim that the Pope is against CITH in the Poll about methods of receiving, so it needs clearing up with a recent statement from the Pope himself, not quoting a Cardinal.

 

[Ter1]

It’s such an important topic, and comes up so often. There’s yet another claim that the Pope is against CITH in the Poll about methods of receiving, so it needs clearing up with a recent statement from the Pope himself, not quoting a Cardinal.

Hi, I’m not the person who brought it up, but I’ve found the relevant quote for those who are interested. I apologise for the length - I quoted his entire answer to the question so that it would be clear for everyone.
From Chapter 15 of Light of the World “How is the Church renewed”; pg 158 (CTS/Ignatius Hardback publication)

Q = … As Pope, you have begun to administer communion on the tongue, while the communicants receive the sacrament on their knees. Do you regard this as the appropriate posture?
***A = ***The first point that needs to be made is that time has a structure that is common for all believers. The Old Testament prescribes this structure already in light of the creation account, presenting the Sabbath as the day when God rests and men rest with him. For Christians, time gets this structure from Sunday, the day of the Resurrection, when he encounters us and we encounter him. Once again, the most important act here is, as it were, the moment when he unites himself to us through his self-gift.

***I am not opposed in principle to communion in the hand; I have both administered and received communion in this way myself. *** The idea behind my current practice of having people kneel to receive on the tongue was to send a signal and to underscore the real presence with an exclamation point. One very importan reason is that there is a great danger of superficiality precisely in the kinds of mass events we hold at Saint Peter’s, both in the Basilica and in the Square. I have heard of people who, after recieving communion, stick the Host in their wallet to take home as a kind of souvenir. In this context, where people think that everyone is just automatically supposed to receive communion - everyone else is going up, so I will, too - I wanted to send a clear signal. I wanted it to be clear: Something quite special is going on here. He is here, the One before whom we fall on our knees! Pay attention! This is not just some social ritual in which we can take part if we want to.

As you can see he says that he has administered communion in the hand to laypeople (the whole question implies this - the discussion isn’t about how priests receive). He is saying that he introduced kneeling to respond to a need specific to such “mass events” to try and ensure all comers are aware that “something quite special is going on”; he is not mandating it for those regular mass goers who are aware of what is happening (who, however, can chose to kneel if they so wish).

Hope this helps,
Ter

 

[paperwight66]

Thank you, Ter!! That’s brilliantly quick, and very helpful.

That passage confirms my impression that quoting the Pope as wanting COTT always and everywhere is plain wrong, and also that the brief quotes I provided from The Tablet, and those which Mark Thompson found in other sources, are indeed a truthful summary.

I hope that fact, i.e. the trustworthiness of The Tablet and other sources, is acknowledged by those who expressed doubt.