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Old_Scholar
Guest
You can celebrate all you want. There is nothing to show that it was an actual event. It never happened.
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O
Old_Scholar
Guest
I have posted what Scripture says about Enoch and Elijah several times already on this forum. Do a search and you will find it. I don’t want to have to repeat it again. But in short, Enoch and Elijah never left earth and are dead and buried here.
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elvisman
Guest
Revelation 12:1-2
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.
Revelation 12:5
She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and his throne.
While we’re at it, show me in the bible where the fall of Jerusalem happened.
Show me in the bible where it says that Paul died.
Show me in the bible where the Reformation happened - Because the Reformation is what your church was born from.
**It isn’t found in Scripture and didn’t happen… right?
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Chaldean_Rite
Guest
There is the testimony of the one true Church, the Catholic Church and her Children.
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Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Why should I read what you have to say? What sort of credentials do you have? You have no authority my friend. Sorry.
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Chaldean_Rite
Guest
You won’t even listen to a St. Ignatius, so give me on reason why anyone on earth should care to hear what you have to say? Were you taught by St. John the Apostle? No.
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IronHammer
Guest
Can you answer this question please, Old Scholar? From what authority do you get this directive?
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Old_Scholar
Guest
Because God gave us the Bible in order to tell us of Him and His plan for us. Everything we need to know for His history, Him, Faith and morals is included in that book. Al else is simply something ‘man’ invented. That’s why, if it isn’t the book, then it didn’t happen.
For anyone to believe something as important as this subject would be to humanity would not be included in the Bible is simply ridiculous. That’s what God meant by ‘doctrines of man.’ How one cannot see and understand that is a mystery.
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Chaldean_Rite
Guest
The Church wrote the bible. Did you forget that?
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Old_Scholar
Guest
Attempting to interpret Revelation is not a good practice unless you have scholarly credential. For example, everyone should be able to see that the verses you quoted are speaking of Israel and the church.
Your other statements of ‘show me’ are too ludicrous to answer.
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Old_Scholar
Guest
And that’s the cause of the problem…
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Old_Scholar
Guest
What makes you think anyone on these forums have any authority?
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Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Prove its a problem. Where are your people that say its a problem. Surely, you wouldn’t be the only people 1500 years after Christ to say its a problem. Produce your evidence that EVER suggested it “was a problem”.
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Chaldean_Rite
Guest
You are providing doctrine that you claim we should follow! So put 2 and 2 together!
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Old_Scholar
Guest
Well see…that’s where you are wrong. Members of the church wrote the Bible. The church, as you refer to it, had nothing to do with it.
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IronHammer
Guest
Who says everything we need to know is “in that book”? For someone who bases everything he believes on scripture that sure doesn’t sound very scriptural at all. It doesn’t even make sense. Multiple people wrote that book over centuries!
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Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Prove it.
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Church_Militant
Guest
There is also nothing that you can provide that says that this did not happen. You cannot provide any evidence that it did not, but if you have some I’d love to see it.
That’s dead wrong Hebrews 11:5 specifically says, “[5] By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God.” So your stated belief is wrong because it contradicts the Word of God. The passage in 2nd Kings 2 reads "[11] And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Eli’jah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
[12] And Eli’sha saw it and he cried, “My father, my father! the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!” And he saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and rent them in two pieces.
[13] And he took up the mantle of Eli’jah that had fallen from him, and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan.
[14] Then he took the mantle of Eli’jah that had fallen from him, and struck the water, saying, “Where is the LORD, the God of Eli’jah?” And when he had struck the water, the water was parted to the one side and to the other; and Eli’sha went over.
[15] Now when the sons of the prophets who were at Jericho saw him over against them, they said, “The spirit of Eli’jah rests on Eli’sha.” And they came to meet him, and bowed to the ground before him.
[16] And they said to him, “Behold now, there are with your servants fifty strong men; pray, let them go, and seek your master; it may be that the Spirit of the LORD has caught him up and cast him upon some mountain or into some valley.” And he said, “You shall not send.”
[17] But when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, “Send.” They sent therefore fifty men; and for three days they sought him but did not find him.
[18] And they came back to him, while he tarried at Jericho, and he said to them, “Did I not say to you, Do not go?” " How is it that you who claim to be an “Old Scholar” of the Bible, can argue against the specific teaching found within the very Bible that you tell us is the sole authority for what you believe?
I don’t understand how you claim all you do and still offer this obvious error.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Yeah, sure. I suppose now you tell me that Constantine started the Catholic Church in 317 or so and was the first pope?
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elvisman
Guest
**An authoritative credential is even better. **
**For 1500 years, this was the view of the Church - these passages were refering to Israel, Mary and the Church (i.e., the labor pains=birth of the church). **
It was only after, that rebellious men chose to re-interpret what the Holy Spirit had already led the Church to interpret.
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