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NotWorthy
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I may be mistaken, but I don’t remember the Bible ever telling me this. Where is this found?
No, no, no. I do not see that or understand it.
“Doctrines of Man” or “Traditions of Man” are those that prevent us from being drawn to God, they interfere with our relationship with God. Jesus did not chastise the Pharisees for having authority (he actually told the Jews to obey the Pharisees). Jesus chastised the Pharisees from making it harder to get to heaven.
And then Jesus transfers this authority from the Pharisees to the Apostles and to the Church. Binding and Loosing and all that. And don’t forget the Parable of the Wicked Tenants.
But Jesus never condemns all Traditions, just those that bring us further from God.
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NotWorthy
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I’d say the Bride and the Groom wrote the Bible together. Sort of a joint-venture, if you will.
Although, in retrospect, where is the Holy Spirit in the wedding imagery?
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IronHammer
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AMEN!!!
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Old_Scholar
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So you’re willing to believe something just because someone wrote it long ago? Wouldn’t you rather believe something written in the first century that has run the gambit of the early church leaders who carefully and thoughtfully, as well as prayerfully, believed to be the inspired Word of God? How could anyone be sure of what was said and taught if it wasn’t written down?
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Old_Scholar
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Your request is a little disingenuous. We all know who wrote the Bible and it was not a “church” in the sense you use it. True, as I said before, they, as believers, were members of Christ’s Church but you can’t truthfully say “the Church wrote the Bible.”
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Chaldean_Rite
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You don’t understand what the Church is yet.
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Old_Scholar
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As I mentioned earlier, I covered this, with Scriptures, long ago and I believe I did it on this thread.There is also nothing that you can provide that says that this did not happen. You cannot provide any evidence that it did not, but if you have some I’d love to see it.
I could say the earth was made with two moons because someone wrote it long ago but that doesn’t make it true. Christ tells us quite clearly not to believe the doctrines of men. Paul does the same thing. How could anyone believe something that cannon be proven? Even the early church leaders believed it had to be found in Scripture or it is false.
You can’t prove a negative—no matter how hard you try.
That’s dead wrong Hebrews 11:5 specifically says, “[5] By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God.” So your stated belief is wrong because it contradicts the Word of God. The passage in 2nd Kings 2 reads "[11] And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Eli’jah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
[12] And Eli’sha saw it and he cried, “My father, my father! the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!” And he saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and rent them in two pieces.
[13] And he took up the mantle of Eli’jah that had fallen from him, and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan.
[14] Then he took the mantle of Eli’jah that had fallen from him, and struck the water, saying, “Where is the LORD, the God of Eli’jah?” And when he had struck the water, the water was parted to the one side and to the other; and Eli’sha went over.
[15] Now when the sons of the prophets who were at Jericho saw him over against them, they said, “The spirit of Eli’jah rests on Eli’sha.” And they came to meet him, and bowed to the ground before him.
[16] And they said to him, “Behold now, there are with your servants fifty strong men; pray, let them go, and seek your master; it may be that the Spirit of the LORD has caught him up and cast him upon some mountain or into some valley.” And he said, “You shall not send.”
[17] But when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, “Send.” They sent therefore fifty men; and for three days they sought him but did not find him.
[18] And they came back to him, while he tarried at Jericho, and he said to them, “Did I not say to you, Do not go?” " How is it that you who claim to be an “Old Scholar” of the Bible, can argue against the specific teaching found within the very Bible that you tell us is the sole authority for what you believe?
I don’t understand how you claim all you do and still offer this obvious error.
If Elijah was taken to heaven to be with God, how did he write a letter years later (6) and have it delivered? That is in Scripture as well. If you study Elijah, it was common for God to “take him up” to another place and put him down. He did that several times and all the people knew it. Why do you think 50 people looked for Elijah in the surrounding mountians since they “saw” God take him into heaven? That’s Scripture as well.
If you want to discuss Elijah and Enoch, then start another thread.
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Old_Scholar
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Nope! I do not make that claim. Constantine was the one to declare Christianity a state religion and to make it lawful to worship Jesus Christ.
In the early years, many bishops were called ‘pope’ but it wasn’t until the 6th century that one of them made the claim to have authority over all the others. Once they made all the others believe that, then they were forbidden to call themselves pope. Only the “supreme pope” could make that claim. This is all old history and is in any College level or high school level history book. It isn’t a claim of mine. It is proven history.
I believe it was Gregory who condemned the person who made the first claim of superiority and said that he himself had denied the same title when it was offered to him.
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Old_Scholar
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If you will read the 11th chapter of Hebrews, you will find that all the early believers, including Enoch, Moses, Noah, etc. have not yet received the promise. They are not yet in heaven but will be raised at the resurrection, just as Christ said that David was dead and in the grave.
No One has gone to heaven except Christ who came down from heaven. This is what Scripture tells us. Anything else is mere speculation.
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Old_Scholar
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And you don’t think that believing those ‘doctrines of man’ will take you further away from God?
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Chaldean_Rite
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The ones you preach, yes.
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Old_Scholar
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I can tell you exactly what the Bible says the church is and support it with Scripture. Can you support the fact that you claim the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only church?
If you are a believer, then you and I belong to the same church, the Church of God.
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Old_Scholar
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I have not ‘preached’ anything that I can’t show Scripture for. Can you say the same thing?
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Chaldean_Rite
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Good, I’m glad you offered to show us your theology on the Church. Go ahead.
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Chaldean_Rite
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I don’t preach, I give witness to Christ and His Spouse.
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Old_Scholar
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I can’t double post but check this out
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Chaldean_Rite
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You didn’t use any of the Gospels to support your belief. lol
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Old_Scholar
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Shoops! Dinner time and then the Olympics…U S A
Gosh that white S didn’t come out but it’s there…
Gosh that white S didn’t come out but it’s there…
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Old_Scholar
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I’m sure you are aware that the church came later…Nite!
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