Available in English: The Final Report of the Synod of Bishops to the Holy Father, Pope Francis
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S
St_Francis
Guest
I am so glad to see the clarity in the paragraphs about the divorced and remarried coming through.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
I couldn’t find it. where was it?
S
St_Francis
Guest
I think it was paragraph 84 and on. The print was so tiny on my iPod, it was hard for me to read the numbers! It started off saying the Church must not ever solve the problem in a way that might give scandal (in the Catholic sense), and discussed other ways to include D&R.
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Peebo
Guest
It probably was a waste of ink to say nothing new…divorced and remarried Catholics still can’t participate in the Eucharist…why would any Catholic want to be in a church that basically stills calls them adulterers and denies them centrally the most important event in the life of a Catholic…the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ…there may be some who will continue to accept that…but I doubt it will cause any who have left the church because of that reason to return…nothing has changed…of course I’m not saying it should change …just that there is nothing new to welcome them back…the thing that has changed is a streamlining of the annulment process by Pope Francis which may encourage some who feel marginalized…and I think Pope Francis still has final say over the report…
C
catholictiger
Guest
no this is pretty spot on. What the Gender ideology groups want to do is reduce gender identity to choice alone. Biologically you may be a male, but if you think you are a female then you are a female. That qoute sounds pretty spot on. Those people want your gender to be the same thing as what team you call yourself a fan of. We can’t identify someone as something they can choose it themselves.
S
St_Francis
Guest
There may be some who value truth and want to be as close to Christ as they can get. There is value in obedience as well.
U
Used2beSherryG
Guest
I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I have just begun to read this document and am ever more grateful to be a Catholic and have the magisterium of the Church for guidance in these times of obfuscation and word twisting.
U
Used2beSherryG
Guest
The paragraph on families who have a civil marriage union (Para 53- 57 or so) that is not recognized by the church are encouraged to avail themselves of avenues available within the Church through the Tribunal to examine each case individually. Each parish has a Marriage advocate ideally, or if not, the parish priest can provide the proper forms and give guidance to each couple. I recently spoke about this at the end of Mass, and immediately after the recessional, I was approached by several people who are interested in pursuing the avenue available. Knowledge is the first step toward reconciliation.
J
Justin_Swanton
Guest
Looking at 84 again, divorced and remarried Catholics are living in a proximate occasion of sin, as they are in a situation where they will regularly have sex outside sacramental marriage. This means they are not in a state of grace for as long as they have no intention of doing anything real to fix their situation, either by separation or by living as brother and sister (and this paragraph does not address the brother and sister cases).
The question then this can possible be squared with the bolded parts of the paragraph:
The question then this can possible be squared with the bolded parts of the paragraph:
- The baptized who are divorced and civilly remarried need to be more integrated into Christian communities in a variety of possible ways, while avoiding any chance of scandal. The logic of integration is the key to their pastoral care, a care which might allow them not only to realize that they belong to the Church as the Body of Christ, but also to know that they can have a joyful and fruitful experience in it. They are baptized; they are brothers and sisters; the Holy Spirit pours into their hearts gifts and talents for the good of all. Their participation can be expressed in different ecclesial services which necessarily requires discerning which of the various forms of exclusion, currently practiced in the liturgical, pastoral, educational and institutional framework, can be surpassed. Such persons need to feel not as excommunicated members of the Church, but instead as living members, able to live and grow in the Church and experience her as a mother, who welcomes them always, who takes care of them with affection and encourages them along the path of life and the Gospel.
L
Louie1983
Guest
"The increasing duties of women working outside the home has not been suitably compensated by a greater commitment by the man in the home. Today, a man is increasingly losing sight of his role in protecting his wife and children from all forms of violence and degradation."
This stood out at me, I was actually a little offended when I read it…
This stood out at me, I was actually a little offended when I read it…
T
TCEL
Guest
May I ask how so?
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ARSpade
Guest
Yeah.
The RCC has a man and manhood crisis. Hence why we have organizations and blogs starting up dedicated to fixing that. I’m actually happy the church is calling us out about something in that area.
P
Prodigal_40s
Guest
Excellent news. Needs an investigation as to why New Ways Ministry were allowed into media conferences and the role Father Rosica played in the Synod including his aims and objectives and the amount of time he spent discussing the family.
L
LongingSoul
Guest
Nobody was expecting that the general rules regarding divorce/remarried were going to change because Pope Francis explicitly said that from the outset.
There are areas highlighted for deeper discernment though, that pull back from the basic position that they are adulterers being called to end the current union. This demonstrates a language more in line with charity and mercy than judgement.
They are baptized; they are brothers and sisters; the Holy Spirit pours into their hearts gifts and talents for the good of all. Their participation can be expressed in different ecclesial services which necessarily requires discerning which of the various forms of exclusion, currently practiced in the liturgical, pastoral, educational and institutional framework, can be surpassed. Such persons need to feel not as excommunicated members of the Church, but instead as living members, able to live and grow in the Church and experience her as a mother, who welcomes them always, who takes care of them with affection and encourages them along the path of life and the Gospel.
The language of the document also represents more emphasis on personal culpability in addressing these remarrieds suggesting a greater dynamic of pastor and ‘penitent’ than is currently permitted.
“Pastors must know that, for the sake of truth, they are obliged to exercise careful discernment of situations. There is in fact a difference between those who have sincerely tried to save their first marriage and have been unjustly abandoned, and those who through their own grave fault have destroyed a canonically valid marriage” (FC, 84). It is therefore the duty of priests to accompany such people in helping them understand their situation according to the teaching of the Church and the guidelines of the Bishop. Useful in the process is an examination of conscience through moments of reflection and penance.The divorced and remarried should ask themselves: how they have acted towards their children, when the conjugal union entered into crisis; if they made attempts at reconciliation; what is the situation of the abandoned party; what effect does the new relationship have on the rest of the family and the community of the faithful; and what example is being set for young people, who are preparing for marriage. A sincere reflection can strengthen trust in the mercy of God which is not denied anyone.
And this paragraph seems to explicity consider a deeper role than advisory by a pastor.
Therefore, while supporting a general rule, it is necessary to recognize that responsibility with respect to certain actions or decisions is not the same in all cases. Pastoral discernment, while taking into account a person’s properly formed conscience, must take responsibility for these situations. Even the consequences of actions taken are not necessarily the same in all cases.
And the internal forum as some kind of pathway albeit not a path directly to Communion, may be possible in the presence of certain conditions in the person…
The path of accompaniment and discernment guides the faithful to an awareness of their situation before God. Conversation with the priest, in the internal forum, contributes to the formation of a correct judgment on what hinders the possibility of a fuller participation in the life of Church and Church practice which can foster it and make it grow. Given that gradualness is not in the law itself (cf. FC 34), this discernment can never prescind from the Gospel demands of truth and charity as proposed by the Church. This occurs when the following conditions are present: humility, discretion and love for the Church and her teaching, in a sincere search for God’s will and a desire to make a more perfect response to it.
The document reflects a move away from a judgemental stance ie. basically adulterers in ‘semi’ excommunication… to a leaving of judgement out of it.
There are areas highlighted for deeper discernment though, that pull back from the basic position that they are adulterers being called to end the current union. This demonstrates a language more in line with charity and mercy than judgement.
They are baptized; they are brothers and sisters; the Holy Spirit pours into their hearts gifts and talents for the good of all. Their participation can be expressed in different ecclesial services which necessarily requires discerning which of the various forms of exclusion, currently practiced in the liturgical, pastoral, educational and institutional framework, can be surpassed. Such persons need to feel not as excommunicated members of the Church, but instead as living members, able to live and grow in the Church and experience her as a mother, who welcomes them always, who takes care of them with affection and encourages them along the path of life and the Gospel.
The language of the document also represents more emphasis on personal culpability in addressing these remarrieds suggesting a greater dynamic of pastor and ‘penitent’ than is currently permitted.
“Pastors must know that, for the sake of truth, they are obliged to exercise careful discernment of situations. There is in fact a difference between those who have sincerely tried to save their first marriage and have been unjustly abandoned, and those who through their own grave fault have destroyed a canonically valid marriage” (FC, 84). It is therefore the duty of priests to accompany such people in helping them understand their situation according to the teaching of the Church and the guidelines of the Bishop. Useful in the process is an examination of conscience through moments of reflection and penance.The divorced and remarried should ask themselves: how they have acted towards their children, when the conjugal union entered into crisis; if they made attempts at reconciliation; what is the situation of the abandoned party; what effect does the new relationship have on the rest of the family and the community of the faithful; and what example is being set for young people, who are preparing for marriage. A sincere reflection can strengthen trust in the mercy of God which is not denied anyone.
And this paragraph seems to explicity consider a deeper role than advisory by a pastor.
Therefore, while supporting a general rule, it is necessary to recognize that responsibility with respect to certain actions or decisions is not the same in all cases. Pastoral discernment, while taking into account a person’s properly formed conscience, must take responsibility for these situations. Even the consequences of actions taken are not necessarily the same in all cases.
And the internal forum as some kind of pathway albeit not a path directly to Communion, may be possible in the presence of certain conditions in the person…
The path of accompaniment and discernment guides the faithful to an awareness of their situation before God. Conversation with the priest, in the internal forum, contributes to the formation of a correct judgment on what hinders the possibility of a fuller participation in the life of Church and Church practice which can foster it and make it grow. Given that gradualness is not in the law itself (cf. FC 34), this discernment can never prescind from the Gospel demands of truth and charity as proposed by the Church. This occurs when the following conditions are present: humility, discretion and love for the Church and her teaching, in a sincere search for God’s will and a desire to make a more perfect response to it.
The document reflects a move away from a judgemental stance ie. basically adulterers in ‘semi’ excommunication… to a leaving of judgement out of it.
P
Prodigal_40s
Guest
The last post proves that progressive liberals believe they’re always correct and will never accept anything which goes against their agenda.
The Pope cannot change Church teaching. Accept it
The Pope cannot change Church teaching. Accept it
L
LongingSoul
Guest
I explicitly said in my very first sentence that there was going to be no change in the general rule. I went on to show through the words of the documents that it was more than just a reiteration of the same position held before and represented a openness to a less judgemental stance against remarrieds, an invitation to look at rethinking the current exclusions they experience and a stronger case for reflection and penance between Priest and a person in the internal forum.
As was the whole point of the synod discussion, while the teaching of the Church was repeated, the pastoral response to people in this situation has been revisited and new ideas for addressing the current exclusions have been aired with hope of healing the wounds present in the situation.
If you want to address what I said, fine… but you make a fool of yourself and the Church by the sort of snide attack.
A
Alan55
Guest
I agree with your assessment. I’m not sure why you were attacked as a “progressive liberal” for quoting the report itself with minimal commentary. As in most Church documents, tone matters a great deal, and here the tone was decidedly less judgmental, less black and white, and more welcoming of the divorced and remarried.
A
alphawoman
Guest
Yes, dogma can remain unchanged while pastoral tone evolves, without morally compromising any parties involved. How a message is communicated can dramatically influence how it is received and what subsequent actions the listener takes. Pope Francis is wise to introduce a pastoral standard that is predicated, ex ante, on reuniting with estranged Catholics…the Prodigals of the world, as it were.
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Prodigal_40s
Guest
The Church teaching is very simple. There are ancient Commandments and explicit moral laws.
The “welcoming” Church since the 1960’s has seen parish numbers decline and left the faithful alienated and confused. Let’s just keep things simple and when we have “FAMILY” synods let’s talk about the family.
One man, one woman married in the Church with children and encourage divorced and civilly remarried people to seek the sacrament of reconciliation and marry into the Church.
Again. Very. Simple as outlined in this document.
The poster who accused me of saying another poster was a progressive liberal. I think any hint at changing the “tone” and “dialog” of the Church are steps toward this and so far it’s been disastrous
The “welcoming” Church since the 1960’s has seen parish numbers decline and left the faithful alienated and confused. Let’s just keep things simple and when we have “FAMILY” synods let’s talk about the family.
One man, one woman married in the Church with children and encourage divorced and civilly remarried people to seek the sacrament of reconciliation and marry into the Church.
Again. Very. Simple as outlined in this document.
The poster who accused me of saying another poster was a progressive liberal. I think any hint at changing the “tone” and “dialog” of the Church are steps toward this and so far it’s been disastrous
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