Average $ Offering?

[Mrs_Sally]

Any thoughts on these?

Also, what if one spouse wants to give but the other does not? Should it be 10% of the 50% of income?

You asked about how to compute a tithe based on the various amounts in the paycheck. We came up with a complicated system for figuring it out. Here was our thought process:

We did not tithe on the gross originally because not all the money was really “ours”. The amount going to taxes is a debt to the government and the fact that we don’t always like how it is spent has nothing to do with our tithe. However, amounts going for our 401k and health and life insurance were our money (used directly to our benefit) and so we thought we should include them. We worked out the math and rounded to come up with a reasonable number to write a check for.

This is simply our own family’s idea a thought process. Everyone’s decision will be different. We also support only a very few charitable organizations because we wanted to be involved in where our money went. If you decide to just give from your net, that is fine too. The Church does not demand a certain percentage, but God tells us to be cheerful in our giving not anxious.

As for your situation where you and your wife do not agree on an amount, I would recommend that you come up with a compromise amount for now. If 5% (10% of half your income) is agreeable, start there. Be faithful in paying that amount. After a year you can reasses. Your wife may be open to giving more or perhaps giving an additional amount to another charity that she favors. In the meantime, continue to pray for her and for your parish.

 

[YADA]

You must be of by a decimal point on that cup of coffee. At work I pay a dollar a week and that even includes the sugar!

Yes, well I do not regularly go to the “coffee” places - just for that cost factor reason … and Starbucks is not my idea of a great placce … Pete’s Coffee participates in our “Script” program for the parish school [in full discloser so does Starbucks … but Pete’s % is higher then Starbucks and the coffee is better IMHO] so I buy an occassional gift card to use when our parish Respect Life Group decides to have an informal planning session over coffee or similar event … and the coffee really costs that amount … like buying bottled water [while complaining about the cost of a gallon of gas] …

And I personally know people who go to the Coffee Shops every day [Mon - Fri] - they go right after dropping the kids off at school …

And one person I know goes more then once a day a few times a week - they drop the kids off at school and then come back to meet someone in the afternoon before picking them up …and 5 X $3.80 = $19 per week or $988 per year …

 

[dashso40]

We give 600$/year…our kids go to school at our parish so we get a discount on tuition when we pay 600$/year…If they didn’t go to school there, we’d probably be able to afford to give more…we struggle to pay tuition…

 

[YADA]

On a side note, any opinions of how the 10% is calculated in today complex paychecks?
Does money going to welfare through taxes count?
Is it 10% of take home pay or 10% of total pay?
Do the number of children play a factor? (personal pay vs family pay)

You know I would really start the process a little different … Stewardship is more then just the money - it is an acceptance of responsibility - an attitude - a position one holds …

Perform a family [or personal] reflection around these four question areas:

1] Are you living out your Christian Vocation and how can you improve your spiritual Life? … What is you relationship with Jesus/God and how woud you characterize it? Close or Distant? How is your prayer life, what would you like to change? Do you truly belong to and have a relationship with a faith community.

2] What do I do with my time? List by hours the amount time you spend in all the various ongoing and regular activities of your life … We begin with a fixed 24 hour day and alocate [prioritize] the ‘things’ we do …

For example: each day I spend 45 minutes commuting to work, my work day is 9 hours, I spend 1 hour per week volunteering with Boy Scouts … We begin with a fixed 24 hour day and alocate [prioritize] the ‘things’ we do …

Stuff like that … the focus is to get a full and concrete idea of where you spend your time in an average week - [you might have to take notes for a period of time] … Couples can do this together - afterall how you spend your time impacts your family and family time and family relationships …

3] Where do you spend your money? You begin with what you earn … then alocate [prioritize] the expenditures … Rent/Mortgage, utilities, food, auto, insurance …

Again - the focus is to get a full and concrete idea of where you spend your resources in an average week - [you might have to take notes for a period of time] … And Couples absolutely should do this together … not just for stewardship but also for your relationship - much marital strife is focused on finances …

4] Where in Question numbers 2 and 3 do you see your Christian Vocation [as identified in Question 1] being lived out or working towards improvement?

As my spiritual director told me … if you cannot find your relationship with God expressed in Numbers 2 and 3 … you have not established a foundation to build on …

If it is there … but you percieve a need for improvement - you can identify where changes need to be made …
.
Remember - the Eucharist is our 'Community Meal" … we come together to celebrate this great mystery and be fed on the Words of Christ [Litugey of the Word] and the Body and Blood of Christ [Eucharist] … it is not a private devotion but a communal action …

If a Pizza Dinner out on Friday nights costs your family $30 and even the cost eficient Costco package of Tri-tips BBQ at home with friends … Then how much more valuable is the sacrifice of the Mass? …

 

[royal_archer]

You know I would really start the process a little different … Stewardship is more then just the money - it is an acceptance of responsibility - an attitude - a position one holds …

Perform a family [or personal] reflection around these four question areas:

1] Are you living out your Christian Vocation and how can you improve your spiritual Life? … What is you relationship with Jesus/God and how woud you characterize it? Close or Distant? How is your prayer life, what would you like to change? Do you truly belong to and have a relationship with a faith community.

2] What do I do with my time? List by hours the amount time you spend in all the various ongoing and regular activities of your life … We begin with a fixed 24 hour day and alocate [prioritize] the ‘things’ we do …

For example: each day I spend 45 minutes commuting to work, my work day is 9 hours, I spend 1 hour per week volunteering with Boy Scouts … We begin with a fixed 24 hour day and alocate [prioritize] the ‘things’ we do …

Stuff like that … the focus is to get a full and concrete idea of where you spend your time in an average week - [you might have to take notes for a period of time] … Couples can do this together - afterall how you spend your time impacts your family and family time and family relationships …

3] Where do you spend your money? You begin with what you earn … then alocate [prioritize] the expenditures … Rent/Mortgage, utilities, food, auto, insurance …

Again - the focus is to get a full and concrete idea of where you spend your resources in an average week - [you might have to take notes for a period of time] … And Couples absolutely should do this together … not just for stewardship but also for your relationship - much marital strife is focused on finances …

4] Where in Question numbers 2 and 3 do you see your Christian Vocation [as identified in Question 1] being lived out or working towards improvement?

As my spiritual director told me … if you cannot find your relationship with God expressed in Numbers 2 and 3 … you have not established a foundation to build on …

If it is there … but you percieve a need for improvement - you can identify where changes need to be made …
.
Remember - the Eucharist is our 'Community Meal" … we come together to celebrate this great mystery and be fed on the Words of Christ [Litugey of the Word] and the Body and Blood of Christ [Eucharist] … it is not a private devotion but a communal action …

If a Pizza Dinner out on Friday nights costs your family $30 and even the cost eficient Costco package of Tri-tips BBQ at home with friends … Then how much more valuable is the sacrifice of the Mass? …

I’ve been blessed (or according to my wife cursed) with an analytical mind.I am not looking for a way to calculate my donation, I am just figuring out how what I give translates to a percentage. Sort of like calculating gas milage it doesn’t mean much but provides comfort.

 

[Et_Cetera]

I don’t adhere to a particular organized religion, but my parents are Catholics, and I sometimes go to church with them. I think my dad gives around 15 or 20 per week. At this point, he’s doing decently well financially, so I guess that’s something to take into consideration. He also donates a decent amount to the local Catholic schools, even though I think they’re going to close soon.

 

[noclevername]

I think everyone’s given good advice but I would stress that we should all strive for the 10% goal. I’m not saying that there are people out there who truly can’t give more than a few dollars a week, and that is perfectly fine. I have to admit that when I look around and see people drop $1 or $5 then go out for breakfast after it bothers me.

All I’m saying is just be honest with yourself about your finances and how you spend your money.

Really? You look at what people give? Why? That’s not right. How do you know that some members aren’t giving electronically? I use to write one big check at the beginning of the month and not give the rest of the month. I never knew people were looking at what I put in the plate and then following me afterwards to see if I go out to eat or not. Wow, I can’t believer you do that.

 

[dashso40]

Really? You look at what people give? Why? That’s not right. How do you know that some members aren’t giving electronically? I use to write one big check at the beginning of the month and not give the rest of the month. I never knew people were looking at what I put in the plate and then following me afterwards to see if I go out to eat or not. Wow, I can’t believer you do that.

You know it’s true, I don’t give that much weekly b/c I give a big check at the end of the year…

 

[iluvmybabies]

That doesn’t make any sense at all. You really shouldn’t talk about things you aren’t sure of. Offerings go to pay the light bill and the water bill and the staff’s salary. It buys books and snacks and Bibles, etc. Yes, churches have to be cleaned and upkept too. And I have seen Catholic churchs hire the help and at the same time I have seen Protestant churches clean and up keep done by members. So your statement doesn’t make any sense.

The Bible suggests a 10% tithe of your income.

I have always been wondering about this, can you please let me know where in the Bible it states that? I would appreciate it…Because we usually give what we can, even if it’s a few bucks but we are a very low income family and besides we aren’t really supposed to be talkin bout this but I was just trying to find out where it states that in the Bible…thanks for your help!

 

[noclevername]

I have always been wondering about this, can you please let me know where in the Bible it states that? I would appreciate it…Because we usually give what we can, even if it’s a few bucks but we are a very low income family and besides we aren’t really supposed to be talkin bout this but I was just trying to find out where it states that in the Bible…thanks for your help!

*Leviticus 27:32
The entire tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the LORD.

Numbers 18:26
"Speak to the Levites and say to them: 'When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD’s offering.

Deuteronomy 14:22
Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.

Deuteronomy 26:12
When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.

Nehemiah 10:38
A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury.*

 

[PaulinVA]

noclevername - this might sound flip, but I’m serious. Please explain how the mosaic law applies to Christians.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Give 10% of your income to the work of Christ in the world! (Not all of it has to go to your local church.)

Why? Because your life comes from God, and you need to give it back to Him.

 

[YADA]

noclevername - this might sound flip, but I’m serious. Please explain how the mosaic law applies to Christians.

All we are and all we have comes from our Creator …

So to the hebrew people God revealed Himself. He chose them to be a people set apart, a Light to the Nations. He enetered into a covenant [an excange of persons - more then a contract; a family - a people of God]

…and in addition to CHOOSING THEM …God gave them: Moses, the Law and the Prophets … and He required a 10th be given as an offering back to Himself … and more besides … He required fair treatment in the freeing slaves and foregiving debts for just a few examples - and how about the Sabbath for man and beast and land … this too is a part of the idea of a tithe … a recognition of God as the Creator and we as His Bride …

So then we come to the Christians [remember Jesus stated that he came not to change the Law and the Promises but to Fullfil them] … we are heirs to the Judeo Covenant and heirs of Christ … We possess all of the promises made to the HEbrew peoples … we to have MOses, the Law and the Prophets, we too are a Poeple Set Apart, we too share in the Covenant … in addition we have Jesus, the God-Man, Incarnate Diety … We have the Good News of Salvation [Gospel] in Jesus, we have the Cross and the Ressurrection, the Church establishd by Jesus, the Apostles, New Testament, the Eucharist [a partaking in the very Body and Blood of Christ] … We are the Bride of Christ … We have the promise of Life Everlasting …

And so we [as Christians] begin our discern [our decision] to give to our Creator in accordance to all we have received from Him at … ??? …

1] What we have in our pockets at any given time …

2] What we have left over and otherwise not spent … [and after we have purchased all our necessities and pleasures] …

3] The minimum 10% [and is that Gross or Net] … and to that one could ask “In heaven do you want God’s Gross rewards or Net?”

4] We prayerfully discern what we value in our lives. We prayerfully consider our relationship with God and His generous love and care for us. Where is that relationship with God in the hierarchy of things valued? How is that relationship expressed, lived out and measured in our daily life? …

I believe it is Number 4 … and it has its Genesis [so to speak] in Number 3 because in the Mosaic Law we have our ancestry …

Then we can joyfully and with thankful hearts give back to our Creator in a meaningful manner … and we should be giving from our need and not just our excesses … because a gift that has no ‘cost’ is not a true gift of self …

Think of your spouse [or dear friend, parent, sibling] … when they give you a gift what has the greatest meaning to you? … Is it the gift that comes with little thought about you and your meaning in their life, the gift for which they had no real concern for what it took to acquire and give - … OR is it that gift for which they lovingly sacrificed … the gift which they laboured in love to give, the gift that shows you how much they love and cherish you …

Similarly, when you give a gift, do you do so with no thought or care for the person?

Does a parent not sacrifice to give to their children? Giving is an act of love …

 

[YADA]

You know it’s true, I don’t give that much weekly b/c I give a big check at the end of the year…

This is a good practice if you communicate the amount and date of the gift …

Parishes though do not pay the operating costs ‘once a year’ … Utilities have to be paid monthly, Salaries for staff are paid on a set payroll schedule [monhtly, bi-weekly] etc … Payroll taxes have to be paid according to the law, insurance premiums are paid regularly [monthly for employee insurance, liability can be various schedules: annual, quarterly etc] …

Flowers, sacramental wince, hosts, candles and other comnumables, - even the toilet paper for the restrooms have to be purchased on an ongoing basis …

You parish finance committee [adminsitrative council - whatever its name in you parish] is require by Canon Law and meets to assist your priest in administering the parish finances … Accountability and oversight …

Many pairshes [mine included] had to make some very drastic cuts due to this reccession and a reduction in parish collections … a large urban parish [over 2000 familis] with a school … the administrative council had to recommend employee layoffs … the school lost 4 positions and the parish office lost 3.5 positions. The remaining staff is having furlough days [like California] and the parish off was closed one day a week during the summer - that is a reduction in salary …

Those are hard decisions to make … I know this because I own a business and I too have had to lay off employees this last year … and I am looking for a job myself … it is not just my employees who lack work …

Many people feel like they do not need to support their parishes financially … I hear comments like “All Father ever talks about is money” … or “I don;t have to use envelopes or make pledges … what I give is between me and God - its none of Father’s business” …

Well operating a parish is on a very basic level - a business … the utility companies do not ‘donate’ the electricity, natural gas or water and sewer services for free. Staples and Office Depot do not supply copiers, paper and ink pens for free. Costco does not supply toilet paper, paper cups and plates and coffee filters for free. Liturgical Supply stores do not provide hosts, wine, missals, candles, etc for free. The answering service and phone company do not offer their services for free …

The lights and toilets have to work whether you are on vacation or not … the Masses are offered whether you attend or not …

The lawn needs mowed and the facilities need maintenance … all of that costs something - eeven when - as in smaller parishes- volunteers provide labour …

For planning purposes the parish needs to know what you are planning on and going to give [even if your circumstances change and you have to modify this committment] in order to set priorities and operate programs …

Thisnk of it this way … the parish belongs to you … take a similar interest in its operation as you do your household …

 

[PaulinVA]

Yada, thank you for taking the time to answer, but you didn’t actually answer the question.

Which part of the Mosaic law, if any, are Christians obligated to follow?

I can eat shellfish. Actually, I’m encouraged to eat shellfish or other fish on Fridays.

I can wear garments woven from two different materials.

I believe in supporting the parish. I do. But the 10% tithe. I’m not so sure, if the old testament is the justification.

Thisnk of it this way … the parish belongs to you … take a similar interest in its operation as you do your household …

Uhm, no. The parish does not belong to me. It belongs to the Bishop. He sends whomever he wants to be the Pastor, and the pastor spends the money any way he wants. As a parish we can have a building fund drive and the Bishop can take the money and loan it to another parish to build their Church.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Yada, thank you for taking the time to answer, but you didn’t actually answer the question.

Which part of the Mosaic law, if any, are Christians obligated to follow?

I can eat shellfish. Actually, I’m encouraged to eat shellfish or other fish on Fridays.

I can wear garments woven from two different materials.

I believe in supporting the parish. I do. But the 10% tithe. I’m not so sure, if the old testament is the justification.

Uhm, no. The parish does not belong to me. It belongs to the Bishop. He sends whomever he wants to be the Pastor, and the pastor spends the money any way he wants. As a parish we can have a building fund drive and the Bishop can take the money and loan it to another parish to build their Church.

We are definitely obliged to follow the ten commandements…but you knew that. The Catholic church does not teach that 10% tithe is required, but she does teach that we are obligated to support the church. Like many Catholic teaching that means we need to be big people and figure out what that means for us. The 10% figure is familiar from OT teaching, we can read a lot about it in protestant teaching, so it is an easy number for people to work with–either to use as a goal or a starting point. I think Yada was speaking more to the folks who seem to think that the parish and all it offers just drop from the sky without any sacrifice or effort at all on our part.

 

[William_Pitts]

*I grew up in a Baptist church, and yes tithing was emphasized. Now I believe that we are responsible for all of blessings we receive not just following a rule of giving a tenth of our income. Some may need to give much more. Here’s an interesting passage of scripture:

“The point is this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
And God is able to provide you with every blessing in abundance, so that you may always have enough of everything and may provide in abundance for every good work.
As it is written, “He scatters abroad, he gives to the poor; his righteousness endures for ever.”
He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your resources and increase the harvest of your righteousness.
You will be enriched in every way for great generosity, which through us will produce thanksgiving to God;
for the rendering of this service not only supplies the wants of the saints but also overflows in many thanksgivings to God.
Under the test of this service, you will glorify God by your obedience in acknowledging the gospel of Christ, and by the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others;
while they long for you and pray for you, because of the surpassing grace of God in you.
Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift!” 2 Cor 9:6-15

It is important for us to give, but not so we can receive but as a sign of thanksgiving. As God has blessed you, give back to build His kingdom.

William*

 

[YADA]

Yada, thank you for taking the time to answer, but you didn’t actually answer the question.

Which part of the Mosaic law, if any, are Christians obligated to follow?

I can eat shellfish. Actually, I’m encouraged to eat shellfish or other fish on Fridays.

I can wear garments woven from two different materials.

I believe in supporting the parish. I do. But the 10% tithe. I’m not so sure, if the old testament is the justification.

I think you missed the point of my post … We are heirs to all that God had promised the Hebrew people PLUS more … We have Jesus, The Church, the Sacraments - especially the Eucharist …

Look at it through the story Jesus told about 2 Rich Men and a Widow … they gave th amount prescribd by the Law and she gave 2 mites - Jesus praised the Widow’s gift becaause it came from her need a sacraficial gift, one that easily she coud have been forgiven for not making t all … while the 2 Rich Men met the ‘letter’ of the Law but not the spirit of the Law …

So which are you? … Do you give from your need? Do you feel the amount of your charitable gifts? And I am not jjust speaking about ‘money’ either. If you only give an hour of your time when its convenient and something you want to do - but never if it is inconvenient, a task you would rather not do - then you have not truly given of your time …

Uhm, no. The parish does not belong to me. It belongs to the Bishop. He sends whomever he wants to be the Pastor, and the pastor spends the money any way he wants. As a parish we can have a building fund drive and the Bishop can take the money and loan it to another parish to build their Church.

Again, I think you miss the theology of membership in your parish … We are the Church, and while technically th "local church’ is the [arch]diocese … your home parih is where you come together with your “Christian” family and share a family Meal [Eucharist] …

Also, I think you also misunderstand how funds are handled in the Church … Every parish is required to have a Financil [Administrative] Council by Canon Law. Every parish must account for all the funds that are given. Funds that are given for a specific puprose are called “Restricted” funds - building funds [Capital Campaigns] are one of those types of funds.

Parishes also pay the diocese for services recieved [The list of services can vary but the Tribunal, training catechists, Human Resources and associated programs like retirement, Insurance, recruitemnt etc, Training and discernment of seminarians, diaconal training and formation, funding Newman Centers on public colleges, etc]. This is sometimes called a tax - and depending on the [arch]dioces can be rather high or low - … mostly depepnding upon how well “Endowed” the diocese has been funded …

Also Parishes bank funds with the diocese … Parish and Parish School Endowments are handled [invested] by the Diocesan office … Parish savings, restricted funds and capital/building campaigns and similar funds are alos managed. The parish gets the gains from those funds. Similarly, parishes also pay into a fund that is availble to loan moneys to parishes specifically to fund capital campaigns … think of it like this … your parish may have started a campaign [gathering donations] but not yet broken ground … that collected money is ‘banked’ and another parish is further along in the process, they have collected moneys and started construction … their construction costs are grater then their receipts [but they have ‘pledges’ to back the loan] … so they borrow at a reduced rate of interest to keep their project on schedule … It like a Credit Union - owned by the members … your parish is a 'member"

 

[YADA]

So how do Catholics who don;t look to the “Tithe” as a starting place discern what your level of parish and other charitable contributions should be?

Where do you begin to decide the amount you place in the contribution plate?

How accountable do you feel to meet that decision?

What is the process you use?

 

[Chuck65]

So how do Catholics who don;t look to the “Tithe” as a starting place discern what your level of parish and other charitable contributions should be?

Where do you begin to decide the amount you place in the contribution plate?

How accountable do you feel to meet that decision?

What is the process you use?

I do not tithe. I’d like to be able to, but right now my income vs. obligations to my children won’t allow it. To be honest, I have no formula for what I give. This may sound strange, but I always try to give enough so that it is more than is comfortable. It works for me. It’s something everyone has to decide for themselves.