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royal_archer
Guest
Have you ever talked to your parrish office? they may be able to tell you what an average offering is or what the average family would have to contribute to make budget.
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Y
YADA
Guest
Yes, you certainly could call and find out the ‘average’ contribution …
Reminds me of the old joke…
Christian: Do we are supposed to tithe 10% … Is that 10% Gross or Net?
Pastor: That depends … When you get to Heaven … Do you want Gross rewards or Net?
R
royal_archer
Guest
Although with our current taxes many people loose a third of their income before it hits the bank. With the likely tax increases over the next few years that will only get worse.
The important thing is to give what you can and then some but it is nice to reverse calculate and figure out what it is. It is also a good metric to motivate yourself to work harder to get the extra money to give.
C
Chuck65
Guest
I know what the average offering per family is. It has been published. I give considerably above that, but I’m still a bit short of a tithe. I’ll keep working on it.
Y
YADA
Guest
And I do not disagree with what you say here … what I have been getting at is that what you give should be a consious decision.
A decision that is purposefully made, one that recognizes that we have nothing without God’s free gift to us … One that recognizes the importance of Eucharist in our daily lives, one that recognizes the gif of Salvation and the cost that Jesus paid on our behalf?
Jesus is our very life, the meaning and the purpose … That should be the foundation where we start the discernment …
Yes, taxes eat up a certain amount of earnings … but we allocate the remainder … Where do we place our priorities?
Look to where you allocate your income and you will find what you value most …
If we allocate what we - [and I am not speaking directly to any poster - but generally to the collective you and me - all of Christianity] have ‘left’ over after paying taxes, the rent/mortgage [this is a decision where we choose the cirteria that establishes the amount of the rent/mortgage], the car payment [again - we deicide how much car to buy], groceries, utilities, entertainment, cell phones, internet [free access somewhere, dial up, high speed, etc], clothes [Sachs, the Bon, Target, Walmart], savings and retirement, …
oh yes … then comes the parish support … uh, well at least on the days I am in town or if I decide to go and if I don’t forget to bring some money and if Father hasnot made me mad …
.And while I do not expect any Poster here to have that attitude [in truth I do not
] … that is exactly the attitude many parishioners do have … along with “What I give is between God and me, it is none of the Priest’s business” … Yes, I have actually had that expressed to me 
However I can tell you from experiece - that God has delegated the creation of and the monitoring of the prish budget to the priest and the finance council
… that whe collections do not support the existence of the parish, tough decisions will be made … staff will be laid off and some parishes closed or consolidated [or changed from parish to mission status - with a reduction in Mass times and no permenantly assigned priest] … then the folks will blame the priest [or Bishop] …
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PaulinVA
Guest
Yada, I know how it is supposed to work, but, sigh,alas, it does not.
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YADA
Guest
:sad_yes: But we can continue to challenge ourselves [and others] … it is our world to change, our Church and our commision to spread the Gospel …
Just an example: We are often challenged. I have been laid off since last December … Each fall we have sponsored a table to support our local seminary for the last four years - attended the dinner every year since its inception …
The Seminary called in March 09 - would we “sponsor a table?” …They needed to begin paying for reservations with down payments etc early … I answered “yes” … but that we could not “pay the $1500 right then” … due to my layoff and extreme costs - supporting my company which needed a huge infusion and other emergencies … however I told them I was sure things would improve. I assured them we would sponsor the table and send payment as soon as we could …
Then comes Sept 2009 … I am still laid off, and things are tight financially. We have had to take more money then we wanted from savings - but thank God we had ‘savings’ to help cover what unemployment does not … Now they wanted to have my list of “Guests” so they could send them the formal invitations.
And though the letter did not say so - I was also sure they wanted the $1500
we promised to pay… I called to speak with them … and though I could probably have gotten out of the promised obligation, due to our circumstances - we did not want to … We made a promise and we are happy to fullfill that promise.I am still positive that God will [and has :yup: thanks be to God ] provide for my family … I am sure that God’s plan is that I will get my company back to work and / or find a position soon. I pray daily that I am cooperating with His plan…
We took that money $1500] from savings with no reservations and sent in our guest list …
Some of my guests know we are struggling financially and wanted to re-imburse us for the cost of their attendance … We said no :blushing:… that they could donate to the Seminary but not to us for the dinner … We have wonderful friends who care for us! Again, thanks to God …
God will provide, His gifts are beyond measure. What little we can offer - God can turn into abundance :yup: …
And we need many more wonderful seminarians to become the priests of tomorrow …
it is our responsibility to support them, the Church and the Seminary …
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rdscheirer
Guest
We have a stewardship Parish that supports the school for the last 11 years- the Parish asks that you give 8% of your PRETAX earnings to help support the Church and school. It has worked very well on the honor system for pledging your gift back to God but in the last several months peolple have dropped off because of the economy.
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royal_archer
Guest
To make another annaolgy: you can golf and try your hardest whether you keep score or not. But many of us like to keep score to monitor our performance. Calculating tything is in many ways like keeping score at golf, just a way of tracking progress.some questions like whether it it net or gross are like asking if a drop off of the cart path counts as a stroke or not. it is a matter of administrative curiosity, not something that impacts the underlying effort.And I do not disagree with what you say here … what I have been getting at is that what you give should be a consious decision.
A decision that is purposefully made, one that recognizes that we have nothing without God’s free gift to us … One that recognizes the importance of Eucharist in our daily lives, one that recognizes the gif of Salvation and the cost that Jesus paid on our behalf?
Jesus is our very life, the meaning and the purpose … That should be the foundation where we start the discernment …
Yes, taxes eat up a certain amount of earnings … but we allocate the remainder … Where do we place our priorities?
Look to where you allocate your income and you will find what you value most …
If we allocate what we - [and I am not speaking directly to any poster - but generally to the collective you and me - all of Christianity] have ‘left’ over after paying taxes, the rent/mortgage [this is a decision where we choose the cirteria that establishes the amount of the rent/mortgage], the car payment [again - we deicide how much car to buy], groceries, utilities, entertainment, cell phones, internet [free access somewhere, dial up, high speed, etc], clothes [Sachs, the Bon, Target, Walmart], savings and retirement, …
oh yes … then comes the parish support … uh, well at least on the days I am in town or if I decide to go and if I don’t forget to bring some money and if Father hasnot made me mad …
And while I do not expect any Poster here to have that attitude [in truth I do not
However I can tell you from experiece - that God has delegated the creation of and the monitoring of the prish budget to the priest and the finance council
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YADA
Guest
The “Net or Gross” is an old joke … spoken here in ‘fun’ … but like many jokes it has an underlying truth …
While I see your point that for some the “numbers” is a score card … I don’t follow the analogy all the way … because you cannot “try yor hardest” at golf unless you have invested something in “golf” initially. Though on some level Golf is a good topic to consider … first of all their is an investent in learning the ‘rules’ of the game, purchasing [or renting] clubs … then there are green fees and all of this thought and investment comes before you swing th club for th efirst time … you can’t egt to your 'trying your hardest whether you keep score or not" without thought, preparation, and a financial committment . Why should our parishes [and their operation] be different?
Similarly, whenn making a home purchase, most of us research neighborhoods, analyze our income, get pre-approved for loans and then look at many, many homes before making an offer … all of that thought and consideration comes before we sign on the 'Bottom line" …
My point is not just whether to keep score or not but to discern our committment to the game itself …
R
royal_archer
Guest
You took the annalogy much deaper than I did. bottome line is the calculation provides a motivation to try harder.
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YADA
Guest
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PaulinVA
Guest
Well, I guess I agree. But also, we need to be good stewards of our money, and not just give it blindly to the Church because we are “supposed” to or are trying to get to a certain percentage.
Should you give money to your parish if it is mismanaged? Should you give money to the Bishop if it is for things you don’t agree with?
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YADA
Guest
Yes, I agree we need to be good stewards … absolutely … And we as a fmily have roughly established a goal of 6% for parish/school support and 4% towards other charitable causes. The actual end of year amounts can vary some - for example we always contibute to parishes wherever we are in addition to the regular parish contribution given to our home parish even when we are physically ‘not present’… so parish ‘support’ can be higher but not necessarily our ‘home’ parish contribution …
Because we set those goals, most years find is exceeding 10% because there are always some unplanned ‘worthy’ causes that present themselves … We do set a priority and have long standing committments and support for several oganizations … Father Taaffe’s Homes for Unwed Mothers, the Seminary, JOIN [they move homeless people from the streets into permanent housing]
We have a criteria in our charitable giving [the monetary giving] … we do not donate to any charitable organization that puts less then 90% of every $ donated to its designated purpose … in other words, fund raising and overhead cannot exceed 10% of gifts … we really like those in the 94 to 96% range …
We also do not donate to charities that support causes that are not in line with Church teachings or perform immoral services [Planned Parenthood is a good example] …
As for parish mismanagement … well you have an obligation to support your parish. Every parish is required by Canon law to have a finance committee that assists the Pastor in the financial administration of the parish. If your parish is mismanaging its funds you should investigate and report that fact to the Bishop. If it is just that you do not care for the “direction” the parish is going or have differences in the goals of the parish, then you should get involved. We are the parish - but as in all orgainaizations, those that participate and are involved seet the ‘agenda’ …
My home parish has a finance council, school advisory council and pastoral council. As you can imagine, the school advisory council deals with the goals and objectives of the school. The pastoral council sets the direction for the ‘pastoral’ aspects of the parish: Adult Education, Religious Education [not all children attend the parish school], RCIA formation, Youth Group and Sacramental Preparations like Baptism &Confirmation, plus our Funeral ministry, ministry to the home bound etc. People can want lots of programs, but those programs need supplies, training for volunteers, staff support - the ‘programs’ have to be funded … I think you can see that - right …
So the finance council supports the pastor and staff in budget preparation [our staff program administrators annually have to report on the previous year and their expectations for the coming year - and propose budgets that reflect reality …
The finance council is charged not with setting the pastoral goals but determining if we can actually support those goals - financially Plus monitoring the ash flow and budget expenses … the salaries, benefits, utilities, supplies, maintenance and repairs - all of that information is accounted for - collections and expenditures … Parishes have to operate in accordance with the laws and regulations of the Fed and States and good accounting principals …
That is why I have never understood those who fight using the envelopes or giving in a manner that is trackable … the its between me and God folks … If you have no idea how much you give and / or no way to prove your contribution - how do you know that the parish is actually using your constribution for parish expenses? If everyone followed that practice … How would you know if some staff members Hawaiian vacation was not ‘paid’ for by money scimmed from the collections? …
Now I have been a member of the pastoral council in the past and I am cyurrently a member of the finance council … I know that my parish adheres strictly to proper proceedures in dealing with money. We have a federal bank auditor, 2 CPA’s and at least 2 lawyers plus several business people on our finance council. One CPA and the auditor meet monthly with the business manager to audit the books - we receive financial reports monthly - and we publish a report annually that is sent to every registered family …
… I firmly believe in financial accountability …
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ServoFides
Guest
I agree with Seatuck and Whatevergirl. It’s consistant with my parish’s guidlines as well.*I agree with this.
royalarcher–I also agree with how you splice it up. I also make a quarterly bonus, my husband makes monthly ones…and we tend to increase our offerings from those earnings. Interesting you do that, also.
J
Jan_Bolbot
Guest
Does the 10% include tuitition you pay to send your children to Catholic school? In the case of our parish we are small but have maintained a school for 70 years. But the school does rely on parishioners to send their kids and support the school through volunteer activities. On the other hand, we are getting something in return for that tuition, so it is not a pure “gift.”
I heard one commentator on EWTN say that tuition could be counted as part of a 1/10 tithe, but that’s the only person I’ve heard raising that point.
jb
I heard one commentator on EWTN say that tuition could be counted as part of a 1/10 tithe, but that’s the only person I’ve heard raising that point.
jb
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newf
Guest
There is no right or wrong answer to this, because we are not, as Catholics, mandated to tithe. Having said that, I would have no problem using the tuition to a Catholic school as part of your giving. You have the choice to spend no money and send your kids to public schools, or to spend the money and send your children to Catholic schools.
As for ‘getting something in return’, we always get blessed when we give. Nothing wrong with that.
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novaslasher
Guest
It’s interesting to see what the “average” tithe is for a Catholic parish (and how awful it generally is). My home parish is located in wealthy Fairfax County (a suburb of DC) that is supposed to have the #1 or #2 highest grossing household income in the country. The Arlington Diocese (which encompasses the DC area), is also a very orthodox and faith filled diocese in general.
Here is the breakdown of average weekly contributions from the parish yearly offertory and budget report sent to parishioners:
Weekly Amount / Percent of Registered Parishoners
No Record of Giving / 52%
Less than $1 / 9%
$1-$5.99 / 11%
$6.00-$9.99 / 6%
$11.00-$20.99 / 9%
$21.00-$30.99 / 6%
$31.00-$40.99 / 3%
$41.00-$60.99 / 2%
$61.00-$325 / 2%
The median gross income in Fairfax County for 2007 is $105,241. Which means that a 10% tithe on gross income is about $202 a week. Even though my parish is a very orthodox suburban church in a nice area, its pretty clear that very, very few people come close to doing a 10% tithe. Few come close to even doing a 10% tithe on net income. Those that do, pretty much carry the parish.
Here is the breakdown of average weekly contributions from the parish yearly offertory and budget report sent to parishioners:
Weekly Amount / Percent of Registered Parishoners
No Record of Giving / 52%
Less than $1 / 9%
$1-$5.99 / 11%
$6.00-$9.99 / 6%
$11.00-$20.99 / 9%
$21.00-$30.99 / 6%
$31.00-$40.99 / 3%
$41.00-$60.99 / 2%
$61.00-$325 / 2%
The median gross income in Fairfax County for 2007 is $105,241. Which means that a 10% tithe on gross income is about $202 a week. Even though my parish is a very orthodox suburban church in a nice area, its pretty clear that very, very few people come close to doing a 10% tithe. Few come close to even doing a 10% tithe on net income. Those that do, pretty much carry the parish.
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YADA
Guest
$10 per week = $520 per year represents 2.5 % of of $10 per hour …
Several years back the average family in our diocese gave $6.00 per week… $6 per week = $312 per year in contributions.
Do you make $10 per hour? What is your take home pay? Do you have a car, cell phone, or high speed internet? Have you patronized any fast food restuarant or other eating establishment, coffee shop, or Big Box Store int he last month? Have you purchased nay pre-packaged or mass produced food product in the grocery stroe? Purchased any presents or attended any events? Bought a halloween costume, candy or dessert [cookies, cakes, etc]? What is your car payment in reation to your income or why do you even have a car payment?
What is your income? What di dyou do the last time you got a raise? How much do you contribute to the glory of God? …
A good rule of thummb for a start is 5-6% to parush support… this is the parish where you recieve the Sacraments … this is your home… and 4-5% for other charistable causes … whatever your passion is … Life Issues … Homelessness, Poverty or the Environment …
C
Catholictrain
Guest
The 10% has to be “after income taxes” since we have no control over how much the local, state and federal government taxes us. In my humble opinion. However, we all need to be trying for the goal!!!
My goal is to get close to 10% by the end of the year for all my donations… church, birthright, priests for life, etc. etc.
My other goal is to work on not judging the professional next to me in the pew, (you know the one… the guy who drives the bmw… yeah, that guy…) who throws in a $5 bill each week. Not judging him is actually much harder than actually giving 10%. lol.
My goal is to get close to 10% by the end of the year for all my donations… church, birthright, priests for life, etc. etc.
My other goal is to work on not judging the professional next to me in the pew, (you know the one… the guy who drives the bmw… yeah, that guy…) who throws in a $5 bill each week. Not judging him is actually much harder than actually giving 10%. lol.
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