Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter

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No, no, no, no, no ! Besides the wages, take home pay is a function of one thing and one thing only. That is the withholding amount.
No it is not. Take home pay is one’s net earnings, what one has left after taxes. When one likes at their W2, one sees their take home pay.
But now we see by the smaller refunds that the withholding amount was lowered more than the taxes were lowered. This is for people who made no changes in their exemptions and who earned about the same amount as the previous year. Now they are seeing that their perception of the effect of the tax change is different from the reality .
Your idea would assume that everyone gets a refund. That is nonsense. The refund st the end of the year is irrelevant, other than it being part of one’s take home pay.
Yes. They were called “loop holes” and removed. The law was more complicated than you know.
Which ones?
If refunds are not indicators of taxes, then withholding is also not an indicator of taxes.
Correct. Taxes are based on the marginal tax rate and deductions.
 
We are what would be considered middle class income level. We normally set our withholding to zero out. We get a minimal to no refund.

This year, having kept everything the same, we saw pennies more (less than a dollar)per pay check. But we owe thousands in taxes. For us, the changes to the tax code meant actual higher taxes.
I posted a link which shows the different tax brackets. It lists an instance where this is the case. You may have fallen into that category, but the fact is that most taxpayers are seeing a tax cut.
Still, some taxpayers make out worse under the new rules. The top of the old 28% bracket is $195,450. Under the new rules, there is no 28% bracket. A single filer with that level of taxable income would be in the 32% bracket.
 
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No. It’s not the bracket—it’s the deductions. And you’d have to talk to my CPA—it’s more complicated than I can explain. 😊
 
For one or two exemptions you probably get a lower tax bill, making the same salary without capital gains or IRA rollovers.

But who the heck thought 8 postcard returns were better than the old 2-page 1040 forms?
 
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Sorry it was not you but FOG who posted his salary and I was unable to correct the link after posting.

FOG stated he made $180.000 but only got a small extra return which I would expect at that level of income.
 
No. It’s not the bracket—it’s the deductions. And you’d have to talk to my CPA—it’s more complicated than I can explain. 😊
Good luck. If you’re having to Pay more taxes, that’s too bad. I personally would like to see the income tax repealed.
 
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LeafByNiggle:
No, no, no, no, no ! Besides the wages, take home pay is a function of one thing and one thing only. That is the withholding amount.
No it is not. Take home pay is one’s net earnings, what one has left after taxes. When one likes at their W2, one sees their take home pay.
I see. We are talking about two different kinds of “take home pay.” I am talking about the pay that you see on your paycheck each week or month. That is the only “early evidence” of the tax cut that was available at the time Trump was being praised for his huge tax cut. If you don’t want to call it “take-home pay” then let’s call it “pay check pay”. So the math goes like this:

PayCheckPay = Wages - Withholding

Taxes = Withholding - Refund (if you overpaid)
or
Taxes = Withholding + PaymentWhenYouFile (if you end up owing).

So when Trump claimed his tax law was so great, people saw a slight increase in PayCheckPay and concluded he was right. This is where you should have jumped in to correct them. Because if Wages stayed the same and PayCheckPay went up, that could only be because Withholding went down.

So now let’s look at Taxes = Withholding - Refund.
Withholding went down and Refund went down. Did Taxes go down? That depends on whether Withholding went down more than the Refund or the Refund went down more than the Withholding. From what most people are reporting, it was the later. Therefore Taxes either stayed the same or went up. Math does not lie.
Your idea would assume that everyone gets a refund.
No, it does not. But what happens to people who do get a refund is an indicator of what happens to people who end up owing taxes. If the huge tax cut was absent for those getting a refund it was also missing for those who owe taxes, which by the way is mostly the very rich.
Which ones?
Do your own homework. Isn’t that what you tell your students?
 
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JulianN:
No. It’s not the bracket—it’s the deductions. And you’d have to talk to my CPA—it’s more complicated than I can explain. 😊
Good luck. If you’re having to Pay more taxes, that’s too bad. I personally would like to see the income tax repealed.
Nice deflection from the fact the Trump’s tax cut may not have been much of a tax cut.
 
So now let’s look at Taxes = Withholding - Refund.
Withholding went down and Refund went down. Did Taxes go down? That depends on whether Withholding went down more than the Refund or the Refund went down more than the Withholding. From what most people are reporting, it was the later.
Did the marginal rates go down? Look at the chart I posted.
Did one’s deductions go up, down, or stay the same.
That’s take home pay. In the end, did you pay more or less taxes? By and large, across the brackets, people will pay less unless their income went up.
That’s a good thing.
Do your own homework. Isn’t that what you tell your students?
If they’re the one making the claim. 😉
 
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JonNC:
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JulianN:
No. It’s not the bracket—it’s the deductions. And you’d have to talk to my CPA—it’s more complicated than I can explain. 😊
Good luck. If you’re having to Pay more taxes, that’s too bad. I personally would like to see the income tax repealed.
Nice deflection from the fact the Trump’s tax cut may not have been much of a tax cut.
Then progressives should be happy since they value high taxes.
 
And the Democrats couldn’t lie about the wealthy not paying their fair share.
Perhaps a compromise where those earning less than $100k pay no income tax at all? Or even not filing those stupid postcard returns?
 
Well… anything you read on CAF is true, so expect a wage hike shortly ;).
 
Believe me, we’re not in the upper 10%.
Then, unless you had a major life change, it’s hard to imagine how you’re taxes could have gone up. The standard deduction was doubled, all the tax rates dropped, and the main deductions that were eliminated impact upper income earners in high income tax states. If you’re complaint is that your tax refund was smaller, that’s really on you for not adjusting your exemptions on your W-4. It was well advertised that withholding would change to accommodate the rates and that there could be impacts to refunds, but the size of your refund is not really relevant to the amount of income taxes you have to pay.
 
As I mentioned, we didn’t get refunds. We managed our withholding to eliminate that.
The changes in deductions didn’t help us—as I said, you’d have to ask our CPA for the detailed explanation. But I’m not finding it hard to imagine that our taxes went up-since the bill isn’t very imaginary.
 
If you’re complaint is that your tax refund was smaller, that’s really on you for not adjusting your exemptions on your W-4.
Except that exemptions are no longer part of the tax code. We’re discussing the default situation which appears to have deceived the taxpayer for temporary political gain. I haven’t seen the new W4, though, so I can’t comment further on this.
 
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Here’s the latest W-4. You are still allowed to make a exemptions for yourself and dependents, and others if you itemize. The exemptions only reflect how much in taxes will be withheld from your paycheck. They have no impact on the amount of taxes you owe. That’s dependent on your income as adjusted by any deductions.

Again, the whole point of the article is that refunds are down, not that taxes are up. What’s happening is that due to ignorance of how taxes work people confuse their refund with their taxes. The two are different. You can increase your refund by paying more in taxes than you owe, which you do by changing your allowances and exemptions on your W-4. Most likely, people don’t understand the difference between lines 15 (taxes owed) and 19 (amount overpaid, which is your refund) on the 1040 form. The way to determine if you paid more in taxes is to compare form 1040 line 15 on your 2017 and 2018 forms, not to compare your refund (if you got one) for both years.
 
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