Awful RCIA class -- what's my moral obligation?

[distracted]

We know what Jesus would say, we all heard it at Mass on Sunday. It would be better for this person to be cast into the sea wearing a millstone necklace

this is a good point because when people are taught error, they can fall into sin… and usually do…

teaching that the Eucharist is something less than what it (HE) is… is a serious SIN in my opinion… (excepting for the excuse of ignorance but if someone teaching RCIA is that ignorant, s/he doesn’t need to be teaching it… Gee, you would htink that would go without saying)

that nonsense about women being ordained some day… For one thing, that would indicate that previous popes errored in their teaching… which is probably the most egregious violation of Catholic teaching (consequence of doing so) concerning this issue. If the popes erroed in the past there is no reason to trust that the Church is infallible and if the Church is NOT infallible…

guess what? We have no Church…

and this world is sorry enough even WITH the existence of the Church…

 

[Texas_Roofer]

i don’t entirely agree… i think just about everything that has been mentioned as a course of action on this thread should be done… go to the priest, if you don’t get anywhere, go to the bishop… AND join the class…

our Church is being destroyed slowly but surely… There will always be at least a small remnant of good and true Cahtolics… but it is SO wrong to let the teaching of ERROR continue…

if that is not a serious sin of ommission i don’t know what is.

??? Lets put you in the priest and bishop’s spot. "We have one volunteer working RCIA she is overworked, gets no help, gets no money, and is poorly catechized. Our objective is to remove her " see any problems?

I note you wrote “AND join the class” what class would that be(?), and what will this person do there?

 

[PJM]

=fabricdragon;5752855]may i suggest “the Rosary: a little Summa” as a good foundation?
its a bit dated, and may be over the head of a compleat newbie… but it would be good for you at least.

also, if you need rosaries to hand to the class, let me (or any of the Rosary Army folks) know. we hand knot them and give them away
kirsten at fabricdragon dot com and my computer eats emails sometimes…

Hi friend,

A couple of suggestions.

It’s important to understand completely that God is in charge and will make “pottery” out of your “clay.” Prayer and prepartion are key.

If the classes are “getting out of hand” at the start of cleass, pass out paper and pencils and ask them to hold questions until after the presenation . They can write their questions down, so they don’t forget them.

Next to God, you my friend have to be in charge. Allow sufficient time to adress all concerns.

When I was teaching, I always made the effort to attend daily Mass and Holy Communion the day of class, which I offered up for all of the staff and candidates. It is a GREAT idea if you can do it:thumbsup:

My computer crashed Thursday and today is my first day back. If tere are specific issues, please share them. With 15 years experiece, I might be able to be of some assistance?

Remember God put you there for His reason, so don’t be too quick to back out.

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[ctkrcia]

I am a de facto RCIA director. That means I volunteered to help with the class and ended up with the whole shebang!

In my third year of teaching the class, I am constantly looking for people to join the RCIA team. I have found that most of the people who volunteer are those who just went through the class. This is gratifying in that they enjoyed the class well enough to repeat it and they recognize they couldn’t get everything the first time through. One of the attributes I look for in adding people to the team is a willingness to teach 100% in conformity with the church. If someone has a problem with this doctrine or that discipline and were very vocal on their position, I would decline their offer to join the RCIA team. It is that important that the teachers and leaders in the classroom line up 100% with the church - even if only in appearance. They may have a hard time accepting a discipline of the church, but they need to keep that outside the class.

We use handouts we get from a Catholic publishing house for the class curriculum. With these, the Bible, and the good ol’ CCC, students have a good start on Catholicism.

Please, PLEASE, get in touch with your priest. It is paramount that all RCIA classes teach 100% pure Catholic teachings. All personal opinion must be left outside the room or qualified when stated. Most of the students are seeking souls and they deserve to know exactly the teachings of the church AND the basis for those teachings. Understanding the “what” without the “why” may work for children, but not adults. Besides, some of these people will be confronted during their catechesis, so they need to have a little ammunition to defend their position.

IMHO, it is the responsibility of all Catholics to correct others when incorrect information about Holy Mother Church is being spread - especially by people inside the church and in authoritative positions. Please take up this cross and follow your heart!

Vivat Jesus,
Jeff

 

[fabricdragon]

of course you can also help the RCIA financially…

i make Rosaries for the RCIA every year, since i graduated two years ago… that means less expense for the parish (and they often dont buy Rosaries for the class anyway)

 

[Lucyabe]

I am afraid that MANY, MANY RCIA Classes are “Awful”. Christianity it stressed, but NOT Catholicism! I do wish the USA Bishops would unite and develop a strict program to be used by all in teaching the Catholic Faith to Adults AND Children! It is all to “iffy” in today’s world - and I pray that it will get better not worse.

 

[otjm]

I am afraid that MANY, MANY RCIA Classes are “Awful”. Christianity it stressed, but NOT Catholicism! I do wish the USA Bishops would unite and develop a strict program to be used by all in teaching the Catholic Faith to Adults AND Children! It is all to “iffy” in today’s world - and I pray that it will get better not worse.

We might all wish that.

However, there is a “strict program” for the Mass; it is called the General Instructions of the Roman Missal, and while we have many, many parishes following it, the ones which don’t get the most press. The point being, if we can’t get the priests to follow what Rome has written for the Mass, why should we presume that a “strict program” would be followed in those parishes instead?

 

[Lucyabe]

We might all wish that.

However, there is a “strict program” for the Mass; it is called the General Instructions of the Roman Missal, and while we have many, many parishes following it, the ones which don’t get the most press. The point being, if we can’t get the priests to follow what Rome has written for the Mass, why should we presume that a “strict program” would be followed in those parishes instead?

OH, how I KNOW that the GIRM is not followed by many priests – but at least it is being followed by most, I hope and pray. Therefore, if we had a structured, exact RCIA program to follow - a Book(s) that all MUST use, I think there would be “many, many” priests and DREs following it too, and we would have more converts learning what it really means to be Roman Catholic. I know many who just think it is a longer process to join our church - it was much simpler switching from Baptist to Lutheran, to Methodist…

 

[tinap]

I feel so blessed to have a great RCIA class right now after reading this thread. Mine is being taught by our parish priest and he is fantastic. I am sorry for everyone else that has had a terrible experience.

 

[chain]

Hard to expect a good RCIA when the priests do not believe in the Catholicism of the Church themselves. I had to sit through a homely a few months ago when the priest said “Jesus is present in the Eucharist like Grandma is present in the cookies she bakes”

I was attending mass at a nearby Parrish due to time constraints - will try to ensure I never attend there again. Funny part but with a week or two I listed to mass from that Parrish on a conservative national catholic radio network - so perhaps that priests opinions are not indicative of the Parrish - or perhaps the Diocese that allowed it to happen was just clueless of what happened before their alter.

 

[Lucyabe]

Hard to expect a good RCIA when the priests do not believe in the Catholicism of the Church themselves. I had to sit through a homely a few months ago when the priest said “Jesus is present in the Eucharist like Grandma is present in the cookies she bakes”

I was attending mass at a nearby Parrish due to time constraints - will try to ensure I never attend there again. Funny part but with a week or two I listed to mass from that Parrish on a conservative national catholic radio network - so perhaps that priests opinions are not indicative of the Parrish - or perhaps the Diocese that allowed it to happen was just clueless of what happened before their alter.

I would report that priest’s homily to his bishop. Of course many bishops make no efforts to correct their priests - possibly because of their own beliefs, or because of the shortage of priests in their dioceses.

 

[joandarc2008]

My RCIA class was “iffy.” The teaching was good, but we never did things like the rosary or the Hail Mary’s or the things that you would associate with Traditional Catholicism. My teacher also took an opportunity to “pick” at a few of us that were military - she consistently went after the war in Iraq which I had served in directing her comments at us. When we countered with information about the kinds of things that were really going on she would tell us we didn’t know even though we were there. She also was implying it was a sin to serve there. It got pretty heated and had nothing to do with our conversion and if anything just divided the class.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

… My teacher also took an opportunity to “pick” at a few of us that were military - she consistently went after the war in Iraq which I had served in directing her comments at us. When we countered with information about the kinds of things that were really going on she would tell us we didn’t know even though we were there. She also was implying it was a sin to serve there. It got pretty heated and had nothing to do with our conversion and if anything just divided the class.

That is terrible and I am sorry to hear this happened, her job was to teach catholicism not give personal opinions.

 

[otjm]

My RCIA class was “iffy.” The teaching was good, but we never did things like the rosary or the Hail Mary’s or the things that you would associate with Traditional Catholicism. My teacher also took an opportunity to “pick” at a few of us that were military - she consistently went after the war in Iraq which I had served in directing her comments at us. When we countered with information about the kinds of things that were really going on she would tell us we didn’t know even though we were there. She also was implying it was a sin to serve there. It got pretty heated and had nothing to do with our conversion and if anything just divided the class.

George Weigel did a very thorough and interesting study of the Just War Theory; people who should be well trained in the area didn’t get it and went off half-cocked. It should come as no surprise that your instructor was not well versed in the issue. I am sorry you had to put up with that. Sadly, the whole discussion becomes emotionally based instead of staying at a factual level.

Thank you for serving - my duty was from '68 - '71, which should say enough.

As a different point, it should be understood that the RCIA program as currently practiced is not meant to go over all of the Faith. It is designed to present you with enough of the Faith that you can intelligently make a decision as to whether or not you will enter the Church. As such, it should cover the Creed, the Sacraments, the Mass, morality and not necessarily a whole lot more. If it can get to other issues, that is great; but Traditional Catholicism is not about the peripheral matters, but about the central matters. The peripheral matters support the central matters, but it is the central matters one needs to give assent to. It is expected that one will continue to learn more of the Faith after entering.

In the RCIA program I assist with, we cover the Rosary one night along with other prayer formats; because time is limited, none of the topics are treated in depth. To cover more information, the program would have to go two to three years in length; and there would immediately be objections that this would be too long.

 

[fabricdragon]

as a (stateside only) military Veteran…
My RCIA class often prayed for the safety of the soldiers… it wasnt “official” but early on we were given the example of community prayer for other people. and someone had a family member serving. so we used that as a discussion example.

in a discussion outside the RCIA, but it was mostly us RCIA folks and the nun…
the nun (teacher) made it very clear that this had nothing to do with whether we approved of the war, or not… but praying for the safety and soul of the soldiers, many of whom are our families and/or fellow Catholics. was a moral duty… even if we were praying for the war to end, which was also a moral duty (to pray for peace)

and if your RCIA director was singling you out and arguing your views on *what happened during the war) you should report them

 

[joandarc2008]

George Weigel did a very thorough and interesting study of the Just War Theory; people who should be well trained in the area didn’t get it and went off half-cocked. It should come as no surprise that your instructor was not well versed in the issue. I am sorry you had to put up with that. Sadly, the whole discussion becomes emotionally based instead of staying at a factual level.

Thank you for serving - my duty was from '68 - '71, which should say enough.

As a different point, it should be understood that the RCIA program as currently practiced is not meant to go over all of the Faith. It is designed to present you with enough of the Faith that you can intelligently make a decision as to whether or not you will enter the Church. As such, it should cover the Creed, the Sacraments, the Mass, morality and not necessarily a whole lot more. If it can get to other issues, that is great; but Traditional Catholicism is not about the peripheral matters, but about the central matters. The peripheral matters support the central matters, but it is the central matters one needs to give assent to. It is expected that one will continue to learn more of the Faith after entering.

In the RCIA program I assist with, we cover the Rosary one night along with other prayer formats; because time is limited, none of the topics are treated in depth. To cover more information, the program would have to go two to three years in length; and there would immediately be objections that this would be too long.

Welcome home, brother.

 

[joandarc2008]

as a (stateside only) military Veteran…
My RCIA class often prayed for the safety of the soldiers… it wasnt “official” but early on we were given the example of community prayer for other people. and someone had a family member serving. so we used that as a discussion example.

in a discussion outside the RCIA, but it was mostly us RCIA folks and the nun…
the nun (teacher) made it very clear that this had nothing to do with whether we approved of the war, or not… but praying for the safety and soul of the soldiers, many of whom are our families and/or fellow Catholics. was a moral duty… even if we were praying for the war to end, which was also a moral duty (to pray for peace)

and if your RCIA director was singling you out and arguing your views on *what happened during the war) you should report them

The group of us did. He was there for one of the times and he tried to stop it and ended up in the middle of it on our side. His point was that he had no one else to teach the class. As it was her husband got a terminal diagnosis the next year and she was forced to resign which was a sad way for her to go. I don’t know who is teaching it now - but better for someone to have to travel for a quality class, than get one like that.

She also told me once that she thought I was only there so I could get married in the Church. To me it showed how little she knew considering I was already baptized and did not need anything else to receive the Sacrament of Marriage. I was there for me and my relationship with God and Christ and the Holy Spirit. She had admitted many times to having been a hippy and I think enough is said about that.

 

[otjm]

The group of us did. He was there for one of the times and he tried to stop it and ended up in the middle of it on our side. His point was that he had no one else to teach the class.

I can understand his desire that the class go on; if someone wants to join, putting them off isn’t going to make them more anxious to do so. But I would have been inclined to tell him that his dilemma of not having someone might have been better to face than having someone who easily could end up poisoning the well. We have all too many people who join and then drift away.

She had admitted many times to having been a hippy and I think enough is said about that.

Well, God loves even hippies.

Although I have heard a rumor that He thinks they should all be sheep-dipped and sheared…:extrahappy:

 

[ccolley2]

I just entered the Church this year after having gone through a pretty bad RCIA program. Luckily, I’d read enough at the time and I’ve read enough since to sort out the errors, but with the next class about to start in a month or so, I’m curious about what my moral obligation is to try to correct some of the errors. Here are some examples of things that we were “taught”:

Almost no one ever commits a mortal sin.
The ordination of women was not only possible, but probable in the next 50 or so years.
The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist can be understood to be similar to the way in which God is present everywhere.

If she is trying to meet people where they are…then why is she teaching erroneous doctrines? How nice can she be if she uses an RCIA class to educate people to become Apostates and Schismatics??? Sounds like she has her own agenda. The Church is NOT a democracy. Sisters don’t get to decide how the Church runs. Nor do they get to decide what they can and can’t teach in RCIA.

Almost no one ever commits a mortal sin.>> HUH??? So prostitution and murder are okay now? so lying is okay, too?? How about taking the Lord’s name in vain? I guess in sister’s world it is okay , cause we are meeting people where they are?? hmmmm.

The ordination of women was not only possible, but probable in the next 50 or so years.>>I certainly hope that Sister is not holding her breath…this will only happen when donkeys learn to fly.

The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist can be understood to be similar to the way in which God is present everywhere<<What does THAT mean?

Do cause trouble…you absolutely must not let this continue. Evil can win, if good men stand by and do nothing. In causing trouble, you have all the martyrs and saints behind you, you have the Apostles behind you, they all caused trouble…and last, PRAY for Sister’s conversion back to the fullness of the faith.
CC

 

[otjm]

The ordination of women was not only possible, but probable in the next 50 or so years.>>I certainly hope that Sister is not holding her breath…this will only happen when donkeys learn to fly.

I think the term is, When pigs learn to fly" Thre are already a lot of “donkeys” flying; Pelosi has a pretty big apirplane…