Awful RCIA class -- what's my moral obligation?

[ML561]

I would not presume to advise you on your moral obligations regarding RCIA. I can only speak to my own experience. Almost 30 years ago, I went through RCIA although in that particular diocese it was simply called “instruction.” Only the priest taught the classes. The class members were not encouraged to get to know one another. Confirmation and baptism was not done in the presence of the Catholic congregation, rather, these were private ceremonies with only the priest and the catechumen’s sponsors in attendance. I found this to be a very cold and forbidding way to introduce someone into the Catholic Church.

Years later, I moved to another diocese where the RCIA program was quite different. It was taught mostly by a deacon, but overseen by the parish priest. I sponsored a catechumen who had not yet been baptized, and to my amazement learned probably more about my faith than did the person that I sponsored! Questions were encouraged, and all of those who participated in the program got to know each other well. It was a joyous experience unlike the cold and solemn instructions I went through in the other diocese. When the catechumens were received into the Church, it was a public occasion and the archbishop presided, receptions were held afterwards.

Although many people lectured at the RCIA classes which I attended as a sponsor, no one said anything that could have been interpreted as unorthodox. We had a doctor who spoke on pro-life issues, we had married couples who spoke about family planning, lectors and EMEs who talked about their ministry. All of this, I think, helped those who were interested in entering the church, and it certainly helped educate me!!!
A friend of mine went through RCIA in a different parish, and had a very good experience, very sound in the faith,and JOYFUL.

I get the impression on these posts regarding RCIA that instructions in the Catholic Faith must be forbidding, joyless, and not allowing any questions, nor must anyone but a priest be allowed to teach the classes. This, again, regretfully, is one of the reasons why I am going to unsubscribe to this newsletter as there is no REJOICING here, only a lot of very overscrupulous concerns about rules and regulations. It is with sorrow that I do so.

In fact, most of the posts on Catholic Answers have not provided me with answers but only with more confusion, and I see much judgment and little forgiveness or understanding among the posters here…

 

[Dr_Mal_Cranmer]

You are not forgotten; unfortunately, I’ve been too busy with work obligations. However, I am attending Mass every Sunday and loving it. I meet regularly with my priest and I have attended for the arrangements to commence the RCIA classes from 3rd December. God bless you all. I will try to contribute a little more as things start to calm down. I’ve met many wonderful people and I’m very happy with life! It’s really great to be able to say this.

Malcolm.

 

[fdesales]

I would not presume to advise you on your moral obligations regarding RCIA. I can only speak to my own experience. Almost 30 years ago, I went through RCIA although in that particular diocese it was simply called “instruction.” Only the priest taught the classes. The class members were not encouraged to get to know one another. Confirmation and baptism was not done in the presence of the Catholic congregation, rather, these were private ceremonies with only the priest and the catechumen’s sponsors in attendance. I found this to be a very cold and forbidding way to introduce someone into the Catholic Church.

Years later, I moved to another diocese where the RCIA program was quite different. It was taught mostly by a deacon, but overseen by the parish priest. I sponsored a catechumen who had not yet been baptized, and to my amazement learned probably more about my faith than did the person that I sponsored! Questions were encouraged, and all of those who participated in the program got to know each other well. It was a joyous experience unlike the cold and solemn instructions I went through in the other diocese. When the catechumens were received into the Church, it was a public occasion and the archbishop presided, receptions were held afterwards.

Although many people lectured at the RCIA classes which I attended as a sponsor, no one said anything that could have been interpreted as unorthodox. We had a doctor who spoke on pro-life issues, we had married couples who spoke about family planning, lectors and EMEs who talked about their ministry. All of this, I think, helped those who were interested in entering the church, and it certainly helped educate me!!!
A friend of mine went through RCIA in a different parish, and had a very good experience, very sound in the faith,and JOYFUL.

I get the impression on these posts regarding RCIA that instructions in the Catholic Faith must be forbidding, joyless, and not allowing any questions, nor must anyone but a priest be allowed to teach the classes. This, again, regretfully, is one of the reasons why I am going to unsubscribe to this newsletter as there is no REJOICING here, only a lot of very overscrupulous concerns about rules and regulations. It is with sorrow that I do so.

In fact, most of the posts on Catholic Answers have not provided me with answers but only with more confusion, and I see much judgment and little forgiveness or understanding among the posters here…

I enjoyed your post and empathize with your last comments. I am new to this forum, recently moving away from actively apologizing on Protestant web sites. It is a different mind set, and takes a lot of patience, as people like to re-hash what you just refuted a month ago…

I have been here about a week, and much of what I have seen on the ‘evangelization’ threads are people complaining about how poor RCIA instruction is. When they explain why, I can understand your point of view, I also see it as overly-scrupulous and a lack of the virtue of prudence. Several conversations I have had call for the removal of a teacher or priest from active service based on THEIR interpretations of Catholic teaching - which they have yet to back up with actual citations from universal Catholic sources, as Counciliar documents.

As an RCIA coordinator, I am thankful that I am not subjected to such second-guessing and excessive scrutiny in every word I say from people looking for a mistake (according to them). I guess people here are more trusting of what I say? I don’t know. We are all human, and I am hoping that even those coming into our wonderful faith will remember that.

If you do have any questions, I would gladly try to help you answer them, as clearly as I can.

Regards

fdesales

 

[StandFast]

As both a student in RCIA some years ago, and as the RCIA instructor for my parish now, I’d like to share a few thoughts.

For those of you going through RCIA with less than great instruction, I encourage you to:

1. pray for the RCIA team, your fellow candidates and catechumens, that they will actively seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit at every step in this journey.
2. Regardless of how strong or weak the instruction is, realize that your coming home to the Church is the work of the Holy Spirit, trust that God (who led you here) desires you to come all the way home. (in spite of many obstacles that may be thrown at you). This is a faith journey. Don’t be discouraged. Persevere. You’ll find as you do that your understanding will grow, and the desire to be closer to Christ will grow ever stronger.
3. Don’t come to RCIA as just a “consumer”. We are to be active in our faith. Read the Catechism. Read Scripture. Take advantage of all that is out there, Catholic Answers, EWTN, and the wide variety of good sound Catholic publications. Ask questions. Dig. Challenge. Pray for increased understanding.

For those of you teaching RCIA:

1. Understand who is in your class, and their previous faith journey (or lack of it). Effectively communicating with a Lutheran is different than someone who might have been raised Southern Baptist, or raised without any faith at all. Know enough to understand the basic tenets of those faiths to effectively communicate the fullness of the Catholic faith.
2. Constantly pray for humility and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that the only words that come out of your mouth are the ones that conform to God’s will and the teaching of the Church. While you may have an opinons, chances are they’re irrelevant in this setting. Keep them to your self.
3. God has entrusted you with a great responsibility. Regardless of your knowledge, only teach what you know the magisterium teaches. If you aren’t sure, say you don’t know and bring the answers back at the next session. Look it up. The resources faithful to the Magisterium are accessible. Use them. You don’t have to have a doctorate in theology or apologetics. But you DO have an obligation to teach what the Church holds as truth, and not a watered down version.
4. Remember that those that entrust themselves to your class may have deep hurts and suffering in their lives. They may be dealing with detraction and hostility from family members by considering becoming Catholic. They must sense your kindness, feel welcome and supported, and see an atmosphere of love and acceptance over time in the class. This is something that the RCIA “team” needs to be sensitive to, to be effective.
   You can’t educate, reason, or convince anyone to be Catholic. Only God can. Your role is to be used by Him. Don’t worry about stumbling. Its in God’s hands. Remember the words of Mother Teresa; you’re not called to be “successful”, you’re just called to be “faithful”. God can make a success of and RCIA class in spite of our feeble efforts.

As I read the words of some of you who have come home to the Church, it makes me smile. Of all my weak attempts in life of trying to serve Christ, seeing someone come home to Him is the greatest joy imaginable.

 

[BrMike]

Take the CCC and the Bible along to every class, also- take a recorder. Ask the questions in a charitable way, and record the answers. Know that you may be helping others in the class.

Speak with your Priest and speak with your DRE (Director of Religious Ed) at the Parish level. After that, your Diocise should have a website with contact information - find the Director of Religious Education at that level.

I wouldn’t recommend taping an RCIA class - I think it is important to protect the privacy of the members.

Br. Mike

 

[Geremia]

I wouldn’t recommend taping an RCIA class - I think it is important to protect the privacy of the members.

I do not see how it would do that, unless very personal experiences are discussed, which really do not belong in RCIA classes anyways because there is nothing subjective about our faith and how it is passed on, right? I mean it is a gift from God, has its origins in Him, and in no way depends on us nor on our feelings, ideas, etc., so it should be able to be taught in a purely objective manner, it would seem.

 

[GreatFaith]

I do not see how it would do that, unless very personal experiences are discussed, which really do not belong in RCIA classes anyways because there is nothing subjective about our faith and how it is passed on, right? I mean it is a gift from God, has its origins in Him, and in no way depends on us nor on our feelings, ideas, etc., so it should be able to be taught in a purely objective manner, it would seem.

There is a saying in my husband’s RCIA class- “What happens in RCIA, stays in RCIA” and I couldn’t agree more. Personal stuff does come out in RCIA. Adults coming into the Church come from all walks of life and for all different reasons, and this is shared during RCIA. Lots of personal feelings/ emotions arise on this walk of faith, as well. Personal experiences are shared. I can not imagine a circumstance when it would be acceptable to record an RCIA session.

 

[heathernoel]

I couldn’t agree more. RCIA is very personal.

 

[Geremia]

I couldn’t agree more. RCIA is very personal.

I do not understand that. Our faith is definitely not personal; every Catholic shares it with every other baptized Catholic.

 

[fdesales]

I do not understand that. Our faith is definitely not personal; every Catholic shares it with every other baptized Catholic.

I think “faith is personal” refers to one’s own journey of faith in seeking out the Living God, not that everyone has a different opinion on the articles of the Catholic faith. Our faith is personal because it is MY OWN faith that must be secure in my heart for me to love others and motivate me to be like Christ. The Catholic faith must have meaning to ME personally and I must be the one responding to what the Church teaches. Not because someone else said so, but because I believe it in the depths of my heart…

Regards

 

[PJM]

=aq5335;1505079]I just entered the Church this year after having gone through a pretty bad RCIA program. Luckily, I’d read enough at the time and I’ve read enough since to sort out the errors, but with the next class about to start in a month or so, I’m curious about what my moral obligation is to try to correct some of the errors. Here are some examples of things that we were “taught”:

Almost no one ever commits a mortal sin.
The ordination of women was not only possible, but probable in the next 50 or so years.
The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist can be understood to be similar to the way in which God is present everywhere.

In fact, I had a conversation with a friend that I met in the program and we realized that many of the other people in the program probably wouldn’t be able to give an answer to a question like, “is it a sin to miss Mass on Sunday?”

I’ve been thinking about writing a letter to my priest, but I’m not sure if that’s the right approach. I’ve already challenged the RCIA leader on a couple of smaller points and I can already guess how she’d respond if I confronted her: she’d suggest that we have different needs and that she’s trying to meet people where they are, etc.

What should I do? What am I obliged to do? I don’t want to start a fight or anything, and sister who teaches it is a very nice lady (as you might imagine from someone who’s afraid to teach the truth about sin). Any advice would be helpful.

WOW

By all means take the issue to yor’re pastor. Be prepared, be specific, give very specific examples, and if possible it is best to do so in person and bring at least one other person with you who has th same correct understanding you do. No more than three of you in total.

Stay on topic. Be chairatble, be very specific in you’re examples, if you have any written evidence be sure to provide it. [Like you were in you’re post which was EXCELLENT:thumbsup:

After you’re meeting with the pastor make copious notes of you’re meeting [both you and whom ever goes with you] just in case you have to take this to you’re Bishop. Do not go over you’re pastores head with outout first discussing the issue with him and allowing reasonable time [2-3 weeks] to make corrections.

Yes you do have a moral obligation to know, share and correct error, as we all do. If you need further adcice please PM me.

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[peary]

I just entered the Church this year after having gone through a pretty bad RCIA program. Luckily, I’d read enough at the time and I’ve read enough since to sort out the errors, but with the next class about to start in a month or so, I’m curious about what my moral obligation is to try to correct some of the errors. Here are some examples of things that we were “taught”:

Almost no one ever commits a mortal sin.
The ordination of women was not only possible, but probable in the next 50 or so years.
The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist can be understood to be similar to the way in which God is present everywhere.

Unfortunately, your RCIA director is trying to meet her own needs of what she wants the Church to teach, which means she is openly lying about the Faith to them, which is an unforgiveable sin. She as much as admits this when she tells you that “we have different needs” - her need is to lie about the Faith, and that is of the Devil, not Christ. It doesn’t matter if she is a religious or not. She is knowlingly falsifying the Faith to those who sincerely want to learn about it.

I would meet with your priest (not write a letter) and have your notes ready to share with him what she is teaching. If that is no help, then go find another RCIA, preferably at a less perky parish, and one that proclaims the Truth in all of its glory!

 

[Melissa66]

I went through RCIA in 2000 and had some similar experiences. Our class was taught by deacons and the DRE. I did a lot of studying on my own and respectfully asked questions when I knew the class was heading down the wrong path. At one point I went to the DRE and discussed what a deacon had said in class and she came to the next session and corrected the errors he made. She just said some people were confused by the class and proceeded to lay out in a simple way the correct information. Unfortunately even she was unwilling to undertake the question of birth control. She just said people with questions should go see her. When I went to her she said the pill was one of the more acceptable choices and it was a matter of conscience. Praise God, I had met a wonderful woman at the parish who pointed me to NFP. I searched the catechism for a loophole but the Holy Spirit just wouldn’t let me feel any peace until I went to the NFP classes.

It will be 10 years this Jan. since I had my first communion. I am amazed at how God has worked in my life in that time and how He has supported and guided me through some very hard times.

 

[PJM]

=Geremia;5961440]I do not see how it would do that, unless very personal experiences are discussed, which really do not belong in RCIA classes anyways because there is nothing subjective about our faith and how it is passed on, right? I mean it is a gift from God, has its origins in Him, and in no way depends on us nor on our feelings, ideas, etc., so it should be able to be taught in a purely objective manner, it would seem.

Yes the teaching of our Faith IS Objective and that is the proper foundation. But there is a “lesser” role that can be vital of ones subjective experiences.

***Why Latin in Mass? ***

*** Theologians view the Mass as having two primary emphasis.

" Vertical" focusing on God and Godly things; emphasis Christ Redemptive Sacrifice

“Horizontal” Focusing on “community” the congregation as “THEE church” as the major emphasis of Mass.

The purpose of Latin, is to help maintain the focus on God and Godly things.

Eucharist is From God, Of God and For God, and we as “children of God“ also benefit from the many fold graces emanating from the reception of our God.***

Love and prayers, Pat

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

…Here are some examples of things that we were “taught”:

Almost no one ever commits a mortal sin.
The ordination of women was not only possible, but probable in the next 50 or so years.
The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist can be understood to be similar to the way in which God is present everywhere…

Oh my Lord. Liberalism!! The bane of the Church.

I think I would first approach the priest and inform him of these things. Who knows, maybe you can head off the disaster before it ensues. You could even write to the Bishop. If he’s a good Bishop he may be very interested in this

Other than that, you can either call them out on their nonsense in class, or just not go. Myself, I’m a fighting Irishman and I’d probably call them out in class and make an ugly scene of it to boot. But that’s me - I’m not very diplomatic. That approach might not suit you.

But you DEFINTELY should do SOMETHING.

Or, you could give us all the name of the parish and we could all call in. LOL. That might shake the priest up

 

[fdesales]

Unfortunately even she was unwilling to undertake the question of birth control. She just said people with questions should go see her. When I went to her she said the pill was one of the more acceptable choices and it was a matter of conscience.

Seems some are more concerned about human respect than teaching the truth.

When I approach this subject (or other touchy subjects), I just preface the class with “this is what the Church teaches”. And I present it with as little personal opinion as possible. It is up to them to accept or deny the teachings of the Church. However, they should be given the truth in its glory, rather than being apologetic about birth control, fornication, and other such “touchy” subjects.

“This is what the Church teaches, it is up to you to continue to reject ways of man or of God… We know what man teaches us regarding money and objects and hatred towards others and we know what man teaches us about fornication and birth control. We know what God teaches us on these matters and we are called to accept all that God teaches and reject those things that God does not want for mankind…”

RCIA is a journey of rejection of the ways of the devil and acceptance of the ways of God. This is why RCIA can and should be a longer process. We have been so indoctrinated to accept particular behavior that it takes time to break out of this. Congratulations on your progress in the acceptance of the ways of Jesus Christ and the rejection of sin.

Regards

 

[fdesales]

I went through RCIA in 2000 and had some similar experiences. Our class was taught by deacons and the DRE. I did a lot of studying on my own and respectfully asked questions when I knew the class was heading down the wrong path. At one point I went to the DRE and discussed what a deacon had said in class and she came to the next session and corrected the errors he made. She just said some people were confused by the class and proceeded to lay out in a simple way the correct information. Unfortunately even she was unwilling to undertake the question of birth control. She just said people with questions should go see her. When I went to her she said the pill was one of the more acceptable choices and it was a matter of conscience. Praise God, I had met a wonderful woman at the parish who pointed me to NFP. I searched the catechism for a loophole but the Holy Spirit just wouldn’t let me feel any peace until I went to the NFP classes.

It will be 10 years this Jan. since I had my first communion. I am amazed at how God has worked in my life in that time and how He has supported and guided me through some very hard times.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

Seems some are more concerned about human respect than teaching the truth.

When I approach this subject (or other touchy subjects), I just preface the class with “this is what the Church teaches”. And I present it with as little personal opinion as possible. It is up to them to accept or deny the teachings of the Church. However, they should be given the truth in its glory, rather than being apologetic about birth control, fornication, and other such “touchy” subjects.

“This is what the Church teaches, it is up to you to continue to reject ways of man or of God… We know what man teaches us regarding money and objects and hatred towards others and we know what man teaches us about fornication and birth control. We know what God teaches us on these matters and we are called to accept all that God teaches and reject those things that God does not want for mankind…”

RCIA is a journey of rejection of the ways of the devil and acceptance of the ways of God. This is why RCIA can and should be a longer process. We have been so indoctrinated to accept particular behavior that it takes time to break out of this. Congratulations on your progress in the acceptance of the ways of Jesus Christ and the rejection of sin.

Regards

Mega Dittos

 

[perfectpeach]

I just wanted to drop in and share my frustration. I am currently a sponsor for my sister. The RCIA class is HORRIBLE. It is taught by two deacons and a priest. Our Priest does a wonderful job, but english is his 7th language so there are some communication issues. Of course, it isn’t his fault and if one attends mass every sunday, they should be able to understand him.
The two deacons are perhaps really intelligent, I just don’t think they are “teacher” material. They can never seem to get a point across. They don’t answer questions thorougly and have a terrible time staying on topic.

I understand that EVERYTHING cannot be taught in RCIA, but they seem to miss out on some VERY important topics. For instance, several weeks ago Mary was the topic of the night. Not once was her Immaculate Conception mentioned. Not once did we hear about her assumption into heaven. No once did they teach us about her sinlessness or her remaining a virgin throughout her life. These are extremely important dogmas that everyone considering converting should know about.

Also, we talked about Eucharist tonight. He read from John and mentioned briefly a few other things. The rest of the night was talking about passover and why Catholics still have Christ on the cross (even though this was already covered in another class about the Passion). The Eucharist (in my opinion) is a 2 class series or more and this was squeezed into a 30 minute time frame .

I have thought about volunteering but if the class is being taught by two deacons, why would I be choseN? I am in need of serious prayer because I am having a really tough time going to these sessions with my sister. Everytime I mention something, I get brushed off as if I were wrong. I mentioned (since they failed to) when we were talking about the Nicene Creed that one should genuflect on Christmas and on the Annunciation. Their response was that many cannot because of old age or lack of kneelers. I understand that everyone CAN NOT, but many can so shouldn’t it be taught regardless?

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

I just wanted to drop in and share my frustration. I am currently a sponsor for my sister. The RCIA class is HORRIBLE…

Then find a solid parish and re-enroll her.