M
MusherMaggie
Guest
Is the Aztec dancing done in conjunction with the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe permissible in Church, as part of the Mass? After Mass?
- Status
L
Loud-living-dogma
Guest
Why, do you think there is something amiss with that? 
Seriously, though, it must be okay with your bishop, and it’s probably fine with the usccb. If you don’t care for that, and in fact you think it seems wrong somehow, then get yourself to the nearest Latin Mass and don’t look back. That’s the path with the least heartache and aggravation.
Good luck!
Seriously, though, it must be okay with your bishop, and it’s probably fine with the usccb. If you don’t care for that, and in fact you think it seems wrong somehow, then get yourself to the nearest Latin Mass and don’t look back. That’s the path with the least heartache and aggravation.
Good luck!
Last edited:
M
Maximilian75
Guest
From EWTN
Theoretically, it could be deduced from that passage that certain forms of dancing and certain dance patterns could be introduced into Catholic worship.
Nevertheless, two condition could not be prescinded from.The first: to the extent in which the body is a reflection of the soul, dancing, with all its manifestations, would have to express sentiments of faith and adoration in order to become a prayer.
The second condition: just as all the gestures and movements found in the liturgy are regulated by the competent ecclesiastical authority, so also dancing as a gestre would have to be under its discipline.
Concretely: there are cultures in which this is possible insofar as dancing is still reflective of religious values and becomes a clear manifestation of them. Such is the case of the Ethiopians. In their culture, even today, there is the religious ritulalized dance, cleary distinct from the martial dance and from the amorous dance. The ritual dance is performed by priests and levites before beginning a ceremony and in the open are in front of the church. The dance accompanies the chanting of psalms during the procession. When the procession enters the church, then the chanting of the psalms is carried out with and accompanied by bodily movement.
https://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwdance.htm
Theoretically, it could be deduced from that passage that certain forms of dancing and certain dance patterns could be introduced into Catholic worship.
Nevertheless, two condition could not be prescinded from.The first: to the extent in which the body is a reflection of the soul, dancing, with all its manifestations, would have to express sentiments of faith and adoration in order to become a prayer.
The second condition: just as all the gestures and movements found in the liturgy are regulated by the competent ecclesiastical authority, so also dancing as a gestre would have to be under its discipline.
Concretely: there are cultures in which this is possible insofar as dancing is still reflective of religious values and becomes a clear manifestation of them. Such is the case of the Ethiopians. In their culture, even today, there is the religious ritulalized dance, cleary distinct from the martial dance and from the amorous dance. The ritual dance is performed by priests and levites before beginning a ceremony and in the open are in front of the church. The dance accompanies the chanting of psalms during the procession. When the procession enters the church, then the chanting of the psalms is carried out with and accompanied by bodily movement.
https://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwdance.htm
Tis_Bearself
Patron
At the parish I attend, it is done after the Mass, and the dancers further wear beaded and sequinned costumes that contain images of Our Lady and various saints such as a large portrait in sequins of St. Pope John Paul II.
After they have danced for a while, up and down the aisles of the church, they all kneel at the altar and are blessed by the priest.
After they have danced for a while, up and down the aisles of the church, they all kneel at the altar and are blessed by the priest.
Last edited:
L
Loud-living-dogma
Guest
Is the Mass the public worship of the Catholic Church, or is it a talent show for a few lucky groups who get to do a cultural performance? If some other ethnic group wanted to do a cultural show or dance (let’s say a Polish group), would they be allowed to get up and do some Polish folk dancing in their folk costumes? During Mass? Maybe that happens somewhere. I know some places have a “polka Mass” but does that include full-fledged folk dancers in folk dress? I don’t get the purpose of these kinds of things at Mass. It just seems improper.
Last edited:
1
1ke
Guest
The matachines and mariachis are a traditional element of the celebration of Our Lady of Guadalupe. The matachines do not dance during mass.
And the pastor is the one you should talk to if you have concerns.
And the pastor is the one you should talk to if you have concerns.
Last edited:
M
mVitus
Guest
I’d guess because your culture has a different take on dancing. I too would be off put by dancing. But the Catholic Church is across many cultures and in some, you’ll have a different view of dancing. Such that it is a form of reverences. (Tis_bearself mentioned the Ethiopians for example.) And in those cultures, it would make sense to have some dancing.
I’m no expert on Mexican culture, especially on a finer detail like dancing on the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, but if the dance is a cultural form of reverence, it makes sense to include it.
Last edited:
E
EricF
Guest
We attended the 5 am Our Lady of Guadalupe mass last year. Entirely in Spanish. My wife and I speak no Spanish, but the feast day is her birthday. It was the most joyous celebratory Mass I have ever been to.
L
Loud-living-dogma
Guest
What is the Catholic culture’s take on dancing? Is there a Catholic culture? Anymore?
Last edited:
M
mrsdizzyd
Guest
Can you rephrase those questions so that they are a bit more specific?
The church is universal. It contains many different pious practices from many different cultures. Not to mention the 24 different churches that make up the Catholic Church as a whole.
M
mVitus
Guest
I’ll second mrsdizzyd’s ask for more specificity.
And for my part, I’d say that Catholic Culture isn’t so much the case as cultures with Catholicism. Yes there are some things we’ll all share, but some things around the culture are going to be different.
To use a rather simplistic example, if a priest in America is speaking during the homily and makes this gesture with his hand (
) it would probably be to emphasize something is okay.But if a priest were to make that same gesture during a homily in Australia where it’s used to refer to a certain orifice, it’d be offensive.
Even though the same thing takes place in a Catholic place, the way it’s received is much different due to cultural reasons that aren’t inherently tied to the Catholic portion of the culture.
To bring that back to dance, the culture in the US I’m used to would see dance most likely as irreverent. And it’d be out of place in the Masses I go to. But in a different cultural setting where dance is seen as reverential, it would be much more fitting and be culturally appropriate.
R
runningdude
Guest
Aztec is a nationality, not a religion.
The Virgin Mary appeared as a mix Indian-Spanish women, signalling to Juan Diego to evangelize the Aztec and other native nations, leading directly to the modern mixed-race Mexican nation.
It would be strange not to honor the good parts of Aztec culture during the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
The Virgin Mary appeared as a mix Indian-Spanish women, signalling to Juan Diego to evangelize the Aztec and other native nations, leading directly to the modern mixed-race Mexican nation.
It would be strange not to honor the good parts of Aztec culture during the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
Last edited:
1
13pollitos
Guest
My husband is from a Mayan tribe in Mexico and they do traditional Mayan dances at various times in the year at the Church and during processions. It is an important part of their way of honoring Mary, other Saints, and the Trinity. It is in no way disrespectful and actually shows the highest amount of respect. It isn’t a “talent show” or a “performance” at all. There is no greater show of honor possible in their culture. Imagine what genuflecting meant to European knights to their King and that is what these specific dances mean to the indigenous.
P
Peaceable
Guest
I could be wrong, but I’m fairly sure there was Aztec dancing and music at the canonization of San Juan Diego. I found it deeply moving, how ancient and more modern music were incorporated. If you’ve never seen it before it’s findable on YouTube and quite moving.
P
poche
Guest
This predates the coming of Christianity to the new world. They had it in some form during the time of the Latin Mass.
P
poche
Guest
I understand that there are many Polish and other ethnic oriented parishes in various cities throughout the United States where they are free to express themselves in whatever way they see fit under the authority of the Church.
Z
Zaccheus
Guest
Dancing during Mass is a liturgical abuse. It should never happen.
Dancing at other times is fine.
Dancing at other times is fine.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Once again, the dancing in the case of the matachines (Aztec dancers) in the parish where I’ve seen it annually is not during the Mass. It is AFTER the Mass. The priest says “The Mass is Ended.” The closing hymn is played by the mariachi band, while the priest leaves the altar.
Then and only then does the dancing start up and down the aisles of the church. It goes on for several minutes while some people watch and take pictures, other people go up and pray at the shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and still other people gather up their families and leave the church.
Last edited:
L
Loud-living-dogma
Guest
Wait - they had Aztec dancing in Latin Mass? I would love to read about this! If you have any sources please share!
Last edited:
G
goout
Guest
Matachines are culturally authentic expressions in a Catholic faith context. That’s the key. They are not new age ribbon dancers. They are culturally authentic and appropriate for those Catholic peoples.
We have a strong Hispanic presence in our parish. On OLG they process down Main Street in full regalia, gather on the steps outside Church in full ceremonial dance for about 15 minutes, then lead the procession into Mass.
It is the most vibrant and powerful worship I’ve ever witnessed. The drums shake the Church. They will also do the same at the presentation of the gifts.
These are very ardent and devout Catholics we are talking about. And they key is, the whole family is involved here. This is not a bunch of stuffy old people, there are young children to old worshiping with all their heart.
This is the family structure and culture that will save Catholicism in the Americas, ironically. Some things come full circle. We should appreciate and encourage it. It is vibrant, fertile, and living the Catholic life that westerns have abdicated.
We have a strong Hispanic presence in our parish. On OLG they process down Main Street in full regalia, gather on the steps outside Church in full ceremonial dance for about 15 minutes, then lead the procession into Mass.
It is the most vibrant and powerful worship I’ve ever witnessed. The drums shake the Church. They will also do the same at the presentation of the gifts.
These are very ardent and devout Catholics we are talking about. And they key is, the whole family is involved here. This is not a bunch of stuffy old people, there are young children to old worshiping with all their heart.
This is the family structure and culture that will save Catholicism in the Americas, ironically. Some things come full circle. We should appreciate and encourage it. It is vibrant, fertile, and living the Catholic life that westerns have abdicated.
Last edited:
- Status