Aztec Dancers at Mass, in church?

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An honestly, what we as Western European descent think about this does not matter one little bit. Our opinions on what’s culturally appropriate will be forgotten within about 50 years.

We are contracepting ourselves our of existence, and Catholic culture will change with the peoples who are living it. As it always does. Those who live a vibrant Catholic culture should live it, and we should respect them.
 
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No problem. I just wanted to be clear.

I apologize if I sounded frustrated with you. It seems that every year someone finds out about matachines on Our Lady of Guadalupe feast day and is all shocked when actually this practice is cultural and has been going on for many, many, many, many decades under many, many, many bishops. It’s pretty normal in parishes that are heavily Mexican. The Vatican clearly doesn’t have an issue with it and as someone else said, the people whose culture it is don’t much care what people from a European culture think of it. Given that most of the parishes around here kind of ignore the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, it’s nice that the Hispanic national parish has a multi-day celebration for her with all kinds of processions and prayers and Masses leading up to the big day and finishing with the Matachines.
 
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That’s what they do here as well. And it’s not just on the feast day itself, but for the nine days (novena) leading up to it, every day after the evening Mass. It’s quite impressive. One year, the group that did it on the day that my husband and I went danced up and down the aisle, and then to finish, each person approached the altar on their knees, with the two “elder” dancers dancing behind them to sort of encourage and motivate them. Even the guy who was beating the big heavy drum approached the altar on his knees! That was an image that struck me - it seems out of place to many people, but the reverence was there without a doubt.
 
This year I want to try to go to “Night of the Caballeros” a few days before the feast, where they reportedly process the statue of Our Lady across a field to the church (it’s out in the country on a big piece of land).
 
As long as it is Aztec’s doing this and its reverent, I have no objection at all. It belongs to their cultural tradition, and they can use it to honour God.

If anyone but them starts imitating them, especially western Europeans, I’ll condemn them as cultural appropriators.
 
Why? My husband is Mayan and he participates since in the US there aren’t any groups we have found that are Mayan instead. Our adopted children are Bolivian like me and they also participate. We have had people of other nationalities and races as well and never seen that as a negative, rather as a positive. All nations united in venerating the Queen of Heaven is a beautiful thing.
 
13pollitos said:
Why? My husband is Mayan and he participates since in the US there aren’t any groups we have found that are Mayan instead. Our adopted children are Bolivian like me and they also participate. We have had people of other nationalities and races as well and never seen that as a negative, rather as a positive. All nations united in venerating the Queen of Heaven is a beautiful thing.
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If its part of your cultural heritage too, I see nothing wrong with it, nor do I see anything wrong with members of other cultures being invited to participate in this practice.
 
Does Cajun dancing have an accepted religious function within Cajun culture? For instance, is Cajun dancing used in traditional Cajun worship practices and considered the amongst the highest forms of worship within traditional Cajun religious practice?

(I’m being a bit facetious. I think you understand what I’m getting at though.)
 
It’s not a concert or a performance. It’s a genuine act of worship and reverence.

next time you go to Mass, look to the back of the Church. You will see a procession of people walking up, with the priest at the end of the line. That is an act of worship and reverence.
 
It’s important to realize that “Aztec dancing” actually is a form of worship. It’s not a “performance”.

There are many other cultures that have dance as an actual form of worship, ingrained in their culture, not some new performance art or self-expression or whatever like it is in the West.
 
It is very much an act of worship. Also it is a sign of submission. It isn’t done to entertain or to be rewarded. If anything, the reward is being given by the dancers.

I understand some cultures and people have a hard time understanding the depth of veneration these dances portray. It is very similar to the way others don’t grasp the meaning of bowing or genuflecting. Even amongst many Catholics, bowing, and genuflecting have lost their meaning. It used to mean MUCH more to people. These dances are the same thing—non-European style.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
It’s important to realize that “Aztec dancing” actually is a form of worship. It’s not a “performance”.

There are many other cultures that have dance as an actual form of worship, ingrained in their culture, not some new performance art or self-expression or whatever like it is in the West.
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Its precisely this reason which is why I support it. We don’t have a tradition of worshipful dance in the west. Any attempt at creating that is artificial and foreign to us, and the attempts I’ve seen have been entirely graceless.

I have no doubt that this kind of dance is an act of worship. I might even see it myself one day, though I won’t participate in it. 😃
 
leonhardprintz said:
I have no doubt that this kind of dance is an act of worship. I might even see it myself one day, though I won’t participate in it. 😃
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You sound just like the type of person we would love to have join us! You are respectful and understand the deep meaning to what we do.

It isn’t just something somebody can jump into. It takes a lot of practice. There is a purpose to each dance and each step holds meaning. But we would be happy to have anyone that understands that it isn’t just for fun and isn’t just a show to join us.
 
leonhardprintz said:
As long as it is Aztec’s doing this and its reverent, I have no objection at all. It belongs to their cultural tradition, and they can use it to honour God.

If anyone but them starts imitating them, especially western Europeans, I’ll condemn them as cultural appropriators.
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It isn’t just Aztecs. The heritage of the matichines dance belongs to all all of the Spanish colonies of the new world.

The Spanish missionaries actually introduced the dance to the natives. The original dance commemorated the expulsion of the Moors from
Spain in 1492 and was a religious dance.

It was then adapted over time by the various indigenous peoples. The dance in the area of Mexico where the apparition happened became a dance in honor of OL of Guadalupe.
 
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Why do so many on this website seem to have a problem with everything?

Bokbok
 
It isn’t just Dec. 12 that this is done. And it isn’t a made up thing either.

This is in my husband’s hometown where my in-laws still live. This is for Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, the patron saint of their town.


The day started VERY early with Las Mañanitas and a procession


They have a HUGE weeklong festival with parties after several Masses (the bishop comes for Confirmation and First Communion during this time) with fireworks and carnival rides each July for Her feastday.

Each town in Mexico does this, and in the cities it is broken down by neighborhoods.
 
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