B.N.P.? They claim to be Catholic ... anyone know?

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I have studied and read Church History even studied dogmatic theology, but I have not come across what you assert here. While papal authority has been invoked many times, this does not say that everytime this authority is invoked, the pope has spoken “ex cathedra”…that is defining infallibly a doctrine as truth which binds all the faithful? When the pope divided the world between Spain and Purtugal was he defining a doctrine as infallible? When he talked few days ago that the use of condoms is sinful, was he defining a doctrine to be infallible?

As far as i know, the pope in all the above circumstances you mentioned had not defined any doctirine as infallible. Has the Church changed her understanding of “Ex Cathedra” now? Let me know your source so that I can update myself.

lefawe:confused:

EX-CATHEDRA literally means from the chair. It means that the Pope has the final say when it comes to anything that involves the Catholic church. This authority is vested in him only. I am beginning to have my doubts that you are even Catholic. The Pope explicitly said that using condoms is a sin and you don’t believe him ??
If it comes from the Pope whether it is spoken or written it is binding on all Catholics .
That is what ex-cathedra means. He is infallible in all and in everything that is related to the Catholic Church .
During the reign of Pope John Paul II , he used his authority to
consecrate Russia , to declare the Virgin Mary as Co-redemptrix , and to declare that we are in the era of the Holy Spirit . all these were done without consultation , using his authority… I can continue but the post will be overly long . I can only conclude that you never knew what ex-cathedra meant. the Church never changed its definition , you just did not understand what it meant.

I will not address the pastor designation anymore , You are free to believe what you will
But at most judging the BNP as non-catholic because we have a pastor in the tax declaration is nit-picking. If it was meant to mislead can you provide examples that it did.
 
CULTS
Banal Na Pag-aaral
“BNP”
If you were to play a stick on someone and pretend you were someone else, wouldn’t you use something to disguise yourself? Do you think Satan is cunning enough to do the same?***
  1. When Jesus left the sight of the apostles, He said, “I will be with you until the ends of the earth. He in no way said that I would come forward as “in-dwelling” or send the “Mahal Na Ingkong.” Why would someone believe the instruction and threats rather than Jesus’ promises to us? Jesus told us that He would be present through the Eucharist. Why would one abandon that and the authority to bind and loose He gave to the apostles? Jesus came to proclaim the Good News of Salvation. He never gave us messages such as threats by “Mahal Na Ingkong.” Those who speak of leaving the BNP live with such threats.
  2. It is common for cults to use the brain-washing technique of “retreats” to fatigue and exhaust people through sleep deprivation, special lighting, and music, into the psychologically emotional frenzy through which the innocent people give up their will. Innocent people, such as those of Jonestown and other cults, are duped in this very way. Cults thrive on the very nature of these events and tactics and the sincere desire to (b???) of innocent people.
  3. The BNP organization is in no way affiliated with the Cursillo movement. It does not teach the Cursillo teachings, which are only of the Catholic Church. Yet, “Cursillo” is a very Catholic spirituality and is attractive to those who are looking for those who want to deepen their Catholic faith. The BNP uses a similar base, calls it “Cursillo,” but moves beyond it away from the teachings of the church by infusing additional teaching of the Mahal Na Ingkong to take the free will of the people. One notices quickly that the names of the retreats change, but the formal does not. Any retreat that infuses beliefs of the Catholic Church with that of another faith is surely deceptive. Any act in stimulation of a sacrament, especially Breaking Bread in the Eucharist of the Church is strictly forbidden. If one was really looking for Catholicism, why would one even entertain these ideas by accepting such imitations? This deceptive technique is also used to convince people of the presence of Catholicism. Dressing as Jesus or levitating in a darkened room does not make one God. It is a trick of an illusionist. It has not been done in broad daylight. Jesus was only betrayed in the dark. The fact that “darkness” rather than light is used immediately raises suspicion. Jesus acted in the light, for He is light. Rejection of the authority of the Holy Father and those bishops in communion with Him is heresy and removes those who practice it from the Catholic Church. Who is the authority over those people? The bishops have told us that the beliefs of the BNP are heretical. When one explains the teaching and instruction of the Church concerning this cult, the authority of the bishop is more than overlooked. It is ignored if not totally rejected by members.
  4. Why would a Catholic organization register itself as a “church” if it is Catholic? This is not a Catholic practice. Do the Knights of Columbus, various Marian movements, etc. register as “churches” for tax benefits? That is the excuse which is used. Why would deception be used? The church adamantly teaches, “No church is to be built without the expressed and written consent of the bishop.” At no time did the Bishop of San Bernardino participate in any way to the building on Riverside Drive, Ontario by explicit or implied consent. Why would it deceive people into thinking it was Catholic? Does it not seem curious that one would speak Tagalog without any Visayan accent? It would seem that one from God would have no difficulty in speaking a language flawlessly when addressing the people. Yet this is not the case for Mahal Na Ingkong.
  5. Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life. Honesty is not the hallmark of BNP. Mrs. Stuart of the BNP was first married to Mr. Delfin Pablo Carreon at St Joseph the Worker Catholic Church in Cloverleaf, Balintawak, Quezon City, Philippines. Her name then became Mrs. Salvacion Pactadona Aguillon Carreon. That particular marriage produced four children. She is often known as “Sister Salve”, but was never a religious sister. Documents were falsified to make it possible to enter this country. She arrived under the name of Remedios Bautista Rios to make her way into this country. She also married Mr. Estanislao Elle Hokson Stuart in Las Vegas outside the Catholic Church. She committed civil fraud, civil bigamy, and adultery in the Catholic Church. Under a new completely new identity, she is a naturalized citizen of the United States.
  6. **On September 18, 1993 **she filed for an annulment from Mr.Carreon through the Archdiocese of Manila. She invalidly married Mr. Stuart through trickery and deceit on June 12 1993. This included the fabrication of church documents still on file in the church. Although the marriage ceremony is recorded at St. Paul the Apostle’s Church, Chino Hills, it was celebrated at St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, Ontario, CA, through deception. These deceptions are verifiable but are supposed to be with the full approval of the Mahal Na Ingkong. Would God use deception?
 
bnp_adorer said:
CULTS
Banal Na Pag-aaral
“BNP”
  1. When Jesus left the sight of the apostles, He said, “I will be with you until the ends of the earth. He in no way said that I would come forward as “in-dwelling” or send the “Mahal Na Ingkong.” Why would someone believe the instruction and threats rather than Jesus’ promises to us? Jesus told us that He would be present through the Eucharist. Why would one abandon that and the authority to bind and loose He gave to the apostles? Jesus came to proclaim the Good News of Salvation. He never gave us messages such as threats by “Mahal Na Ingkong.” Those who speak of leaving the BNP live with such threats.
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*What threats are you talking about? There is no dogma or doctrine published in the Catholic Church that says belief or disbelief in Mahal Na Ingkong is an impediment to your personal salvation. So how can the BNP or any of its members threaten you spiritually. Besides you quoted the passage wrongly , its in Matthew Chapter 26
verses 17 to 20 .

17 When they saw him they fell down before him, though some hesitated.
18 Jesus came up and spoke to them. He said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teach them to observe all the commands I gave you. And look, I am with you always; yes, to the end of time.’
He said he will be with us until the end of time …notice it does not say in what way.*

So you claim that the 120 + men that attended our recent Panawagan ( translation: The Calling) classes in Ontario were all brainwashed in 3 nights and 2 days to believe in Mahal Na Ingkong. The attendees included 2 priests and one deacon. If we could do that , the CIA and other branches of government would be highly interested.

The BNP has not used the word Cursillo or anything else to entice anyone to join its retreats. Before the retreat the retreatants fill up an application form and this form is used for contact information only .
Having been part of the Cursillo movement, there are three basic diffierences between a Cursillo retreat and a BNP retreat .
Firstly. everything ( food and accomodations ) in the BNP retreat is FREE.
the Cursillo movent charges for their retreat.
Secondly , the Cursillo Movement uses paid speakers , The BNP does not pay any of its people to speak in a retreat.
Thirdly, the BNP does not use the curia of a saint , it just says that it is a retreat class.
AS far as I know , no bishop in the USA or anywhere has officially published or orally accused the BNP of heresy, Yes, we have been the subject ban letters and interdicts , but no one of the clergy has accused us of heresy.
  1. *The dioceses of Los Angeles and San Bernardino are registered as churches. It is the only way they can avail of the non-profit status that exist under the current taxation paradigm. So by your definition they are separate and distinct churches and not part of the Roman Catholic Church How we pay our taxes does not define us .What we render to Caesar , is not the same as what we render to GOD.
    The buildings built in Ontario are the House of Prayer and the CAC ( Cultural and Arts Center) The HOP is a retreat house and the CAC is a gym and multi-media complex …
    We never describe them as a church or part of a church complex. The BNP is a lay ministry under the US Constitution First Amendment we are free to practice our religion
    and under that premise we built in Ontario. And besides if you really want to be picky, THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CATHOLIC CATHECHISM AND IN THE 1983 CODE OF CANON THAT GIVES A LOCAL BISHOP AUTHORITY OVER LAY MINISTRIES .
    That is why the Knights of Columbus , the Legion of Mary have their own governing bodies. If any of this organizations want to build their own facilities independently they can and have.*5.
*The " sister" in Sister Salve is direction translation fron the Tagalog word ATE. It is used to designate an elder sister or elder female relative . I have a lot of Ate’s in the Philippines, Since we are in the U.S.A. the word " ATE" got translated to Sister which is the closest English word for it.
I don’t know if I want to laugh or cry when i address this last accusation of fraud and
bigamy.
Ate Salve’s first marriage was offically annulled around 1990 , she married her current husband in 1993 . There was no deceit involved in this , Ate salve has promised to show anyone who is interested her official annulment certificate from the diocese of Manila, its from this diocese because that is where she was originally married …

Anyone who has been married in the Catholic Church , knows that the marriage banns announcing the future marriage have to be filed in the bride’s and groom’s home parishes .
Ate Salve’s official residence was in Chino … therefore that is where the marriage banns were read and that’s were the marriage was approved …
After the proposed marriage was approved , the couple can conduct the marriage ceremony in any Catholic church . This is done every day.
If it wasn’t ,every Catholic bride and groom would have to live in the same parish ,Think about it…

Please remember the 8th commandment about bearing false witness*
 
  1. People often seek cultural identity when in a new land. The technique of preying on this need is how many of the Filipino culture are drawn into the movement. Attractions to the devotion of Our Lady of Fatima and Eucharistic Adoration which are dear to them are used as a ploy to convince people that this is a “Catholic” organization. Again, this is trickery, it dupes people who know little of their faith into thinking that the BNP is a valid Catholic practice and convinces them to financially support the movement in great sacrifice to build their “church,” which many do with a great zeal. Is deception from God?
  2. Priests who have been involved with the movement are either those who have no faculties because they have left the priesthood, or they have been tricked into it because they were not familiar with the organization. No priest who attends these meetings has faculties in this diocese to celebrate Sacraments there. This technique of using “priests” is another form of trickery to “prove” that the organization is “Catholic.” Is this the Jesus you know? If people say that the BNP brought them back to the one holy Catholic and “Apostolic church” of our Creed, why would they ignore the Apostolic authority of the bishops, the successors of the Apostles, or protest it? Yes, those convinced of the legitimacy of BNP have many answers about why the Church “persecutes” it and refuse to research the facts for themselves, even those presented here, as if researching the facts would be an act of disobedience. Does this sound like free will?
  3. Excuses of persecution familiar with Protestantism are actually dimmed by the arguments of BNP members when they are confronted with its legitimacy by the Church. Even Protestantism rebukes any substitution for Christ. “I would die for the BNP” has been heard. Yet, those same people would not give a lesser devotion to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and full communion with the Church that flows from it. When told that they are no longer eligible to receive the sacraments, BNP takes priority over the instruction of the church.
  4. If the Eucharist is so important to people, why would they give priority to a so call “phenomenon”. The “phenomenon” of the Catholic faith is a real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and no other, and it is reserved to those who believe in the teachings of the church. If people believe in the Catholic Church, why would they have their own “pastors” and “ordinations”? Those who believe in the Catholic faith only know of valid orders from the local successor to the Apostles, the bishop. At what time in any of the Christian era was it approved to worship a person because of the “in-dwelling?” Crying, kissing, bowing, genuflecting and prostrating in an emotional frenzy before a human being other than Christ Himself, are not part of any Catholic practice. Many of these postures, according to the Catholic Teaching, are reserved only for the Blessed Sacrament.
  5. We must always remember that Satan is the author of confusion, division, disunity, and disobedience. He uses disguise, deception, forgery, delusion, misconception, illusion, fiction, fabrication, and fantasy. Hoax means that many people are duped by the impressiveness of sensationalism. Does this sound like Jesus? An “in-dwelling” can only mean deception, mental illness, or possession. Nowhere at anytime in the history of God’s people has God “possessed” someone. That would contradict why he gave us free will. Has God become inconsistent with himself? Jesus did not use trickery or illusion. He is the truth, the way, and the life. He unites and heals. He did not create an apostolate so that it might be rejected by so called believers. Our bishops are successors to the Apostles. Jesus protects the Apostolate from error in areas of faith and morals by His promise in the unity of the Holy Spirit. One’s choice is to be a part of the true Catholic Church or less than an imitation in a cult, in this case, one that is opposed to the official church teaching.
 
Instead of answering and refuting my previous answers , you come up with even more wilder accusations . Your writing betrays as someone who either not Catholic or has a very limited understanding of the Catholic Faith

First of all , the cahechism states that we are supposed to be in full communion with mystical body of Christ not the Pope. You did not know about marriage banns , what else are you unfamiliar with that most Catholics take as common knowlege.

Secondly , not all the graduates of the recent classes were Filipino . The two priests were Irish- American , there were 12 men of Latino descent , and some Filipinos were 3rd generation Americans.

I have never claimed that I was persecuted by the Church my posts said some of the interdicts was unfair. That’s it. , The Inquisition was over a long time ago … so no one has been persecuted by the Catholic Church in a long time. And as far as the protestants go, they won the war of Reformation.

The Bible has countless stories about the phenomena that appears when our Lord, Jesus Christ is present.
If you want proof, read about St. Paul , he was blinded by a light , heard voices and
asked why he was persecuting Christ. I chose St. Paul ,because his story occurs not while Jesus was present on Earth , but after he had descended to the Father.
Think about it …

If you think that the priests that celebrate Mass for the BNP have no valid orders ( I can only assume that’s what you meant because your use of the word " faculties" does not make sense) then come to the BNP HOP this Sunday at around 12 noon and ask the
priest yourself.

Shalom
 
**To all my true brother and sister Catholics who are in union with our one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church,

Please, click on the attached files below which are two pages of the letter by the former Archbishop of San Francisco, John R. Quinn, dated October 12, 1989, banning the activities of the BNP movement in any church facility within the diocese of San Francisco.**

**“The catholic community is a community of transparency.” Father Corapi
**
**“The church don’t need intelligent men but pious, holy men.”

“The greatest thing you can give somebody is the truth.”

“God does not want your opinion, He wants the truth.” Mother Angelica

“Don’t accept anything with truth that lacks love, don’t accept anything with love that lacks the truth. It becomes a destructive lie.” St. Augustine**

" I NEVER LIED IN MY LIFE!" excerpt from Ate Salve’s testimony on weekend retreats.
 
believer112 said:
ALL lay ministries go through this process , first the ministry is established , and then scrutinized by the Church as they become more successful , the BNP is just one line in a long list of lay minitries .We call ourselves Catholic , because that’s what we are .
And since the this thread is going back and forth between secular matters and spiritual matters . I can call myself anything under the guarantee of the !st Amendment of the United States that guarantees the free practice of religion.
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I wanted to reply to more on this thread but it is almost impossible to follow without the posters using the quote feature. I can’t tell who is saying what. :eek:

But in response to this one claim… Yes, new ministries and apostolates emerge from time to time. However, the usual process is that they are a local ministry under the oversight of a parish pastor or a bishop. They behave in obedience to that authority. When they have shown to be long-lasting and not devisive, they sometimes seek official approval from the Vatican. Only then do they branch out to other dioceses, let alone other countries. I don’t see that kind of oversight or obedience to authority in the actions of the BNP.

In fact, in none of these posts does it appear that BNP used the legitimate methods and steps to establish itself in any diocese. Even very accepted ministries and orders request permision from the Bishop before beginning activities in the diocese. Has BNP done that? Is BNP acting only where they have permission?

By the way, the Ammendment of the Constitution of the United States regarding religion states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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So, the government can’t stop you from practicing your religion however you want. But that doesn’t mean that the Catholic Church, either locally or more broadly has to accept everything you do and say. It also does not protect you from rebuke when you misrepresent the teaching of the Church.
 
believer112 said:
If you think that the priests that celebrate Mass for the BNP have no valid orders ( I can only assume that’s what you meant because your use of the word " faculties" does not make sense) then come to the BNP HOP this Sunday at around 12 noon and ask the
priest yourself.

Shalom
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Let me clear that up for you too. Holy Orders is a permanent state. Once ordained, as long as the ordination was done according to proper form and intent by a validly ordained bishop, a man remains a valid priest. But being a validly ordained priest is only half of what is needed to say Mass. All priests, even those in religious orders, need the express pemission of the Bishop in order to say Mass anywhere in that Bishop’s geographic responsibility (the diocese). That is what is meant by ‘faculties’. A priest without faculties in a particular diocese still is able to say a valid Mass but is acting in a gravely sinful manner to do so. Those Masses would be valid but illicit. Lay people who attend such Masses may also be acting sinfully if they know the priest in question is offering an illicit Mass.
 
**Mr. Believer, I am your brother in Christ, who graduated in the BNP retreat class, I used to believe, but I received all these letters and statements concerning our movement. Should I reject and ignore them and follow our dear matriarch, Ate Salve who will die for Mahal Na Ingkong? You can tell me I’m a fake BNP adorer which is OK. I will follow the church teachings.

Your quote; “Your writing betrays as someone who either not Catholic or has a very limited understanding of the Catholic Faith.”

The statements or threads I posted previously were all typed by me from the the letters I have received from the church. I’m sorry, I can’t argue with you because they were not my statements. They were the findings reported by the Catholic priests (Commission on Visions and Phenomenon) who did the study group about the BNP movement. You can insult them with your higher intelligence.

I have more statements to follow to share to everyone and you can make your own judgment. I will retype them so everyone can read and understand.

Please, tell us the truth. Let us be free.

Please, provide us the financial reports this coming Tuesday on our weekly ultreya.

May our Lord, Jesus Christ unite us to the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Peace…
**
 
Corki said:
I wanted to reply to more on this thread but it is almost impossible to follow without the posters using the quote feature. I can’t tell who is saying what. :eek:

But in response to this one claim… Yes, new ministries and apostolates emerge from time to time. However, the usual process is that they are a local ministry under the oversight of a parish pastor or a bishop. They behave in obedience to that authority. When they have shown to be long-lasting and not devisive, they sometimes seek official approval from the Vatican. Only then do they branch out to other dioceses, let alone other countries. I don’t see that kind of oversight or obedience to authority in the actions of the BNP.

In fact, in none of these posts does it appear that BNP used the legitimate methods and steps to establish itself in any diocese. Even very accepted ministries and orders request permision from the Bishop before beginning activities in the diocese. Has BNP done that? Is BNP acting only where they have permission?

By the way, the Ammendment of the Constitution of the United States regarding religion states:

So, the government can’t stop you from practicing your religion however you want. But that doesn’t mean that the Catholic Church, either locally or more broadly has to accept everything you do and say. It also does not protect you from rebuke when you misrepresent the teaching of the Church.
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My statement that new ministries emerge everytime in the Catholic was only in response to the statement by BNP Adorer that the Church has remained the same and has not changed in its ministries and organization . In fact with the implementation of the BEC ( of which I was a part ) the Church parishes took a big step towards transparency
in its financial transactions. I was trying to make point that any organization that is growing is also evolving and the titles and responsiblities within the organization change accordingly .

The BNP is a lay ministry , it is accepted in some dioceses and not in others , . Since this is the case , I submit that there has been no final word about the
BNP lay ministry . After all if one Cardinal okays the BNP to operate in his diocese , does that mean that the other Cardinal who bans us is wrong?
With respect to the diocese of San Bernardino , there was never any dialogue held to
tell us that the BNP was in violation , just the interdict letter , still we obeyed the letter we
did not force the issue , we just stoppped going for the Sacraments in the diocese of SB
As to getting permission from the local priests .
The BNP has always asked for permission to operate , the proof of this is that before the interdict letters , we enjoyed full use of the diocesian and parochial facilities in some
churches in LA . To use any of this facilities you had to apply and state your groups’ name . In Fact our application lettrers were later used to identify the BNP and its members

I apologize about the First Amendment statement , it was more out of frustration than
anything. That comes when someone accuses your group of not being catholic because of your tax declaration , that shows a title of pastor . I figured if they were willing to use that I can use the First Amendment. After all both these are secular and therefore material things .

Shalom
 
bnp_adorer said:
**Mr. Believer, I am your brother in Christ, who graduated in the BNP retreat class, I used to believe, but I received all these letters and statements concerning our movement. Should I reject and ignore them and follow our dear matriarch, Ate Salve who will die for Mahal Na Ingkong? You can tell me I’m a fake BNP adorer which is OK. I will follow the church teachings.

Your quote; “Your writing betrays as someone who either not Catholic or has a very limited understanding of the Catholic Faith.”

The statements or threads I posted previously were all typed by me from the the letters I have received from the church. I’m sorry, I can’t argue with you because they were not my statements. They were the findings reported by the Catholic priests (Commission on Visions and Phenomenon) who did the study group about the BNP movement. You can insult them with your higher intelligence.

I have more statements to follow to share to everyone and you can make your own judgment. I will retype them so everyone can read and understand.

Please, tell us the truth. Let us be free.

Please, provide us the financial reports this coming Tuesday on our weekly ultreya.

May our Lord, Jesus Christ unite us to the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Peace…
**
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I HAVE NEVER ACCUSED YOU OF NOT BEING A BNP ADORER IN ANY OF MY POSTS .
The only reason I question you not being a Catholic is your statements ,
  1. You said we have to be in full Communion with the Holy Father , the POPE ,
    the Cathechism says that we are in full communion with the mystical body of Christ.
  2. You said that there was fraud involved because the marriage of Ate Salve was approved in Chino and done in San Bernardino , this proves you that you have no knowlege at all about Catholic matrimonial procedures for someone who claims he or she has studied theology
  3. You misquoted Matthew Chapter 26 , verses 17 to 20
these are little things that show that you are either not Catholic , or you have little
knowlege abouth the Catholic faith , yet you come here to judge our Catholicism.

And like I said if you are interested infinding out about the priests that say Mass and give out the Sacraments at the BNP center , come to the Mass , its held at approx 12 noon every Sunday. You are the one accusing them of not having authority from their bishops , don’t you think its your resposnsibility to disprove my statement .

Shalom
 
***Please note that I copied and typed the following article from the letters from the church’ files. I had problem attaching them at the footnote. Maybe because it’s Sunday, and it has to be reviewed by the administrator before it can be viewed. I will post them later.

For everyone’s information, especially to Mr. Believer, this information came from the Catholic church or priests (Commissions on Vision and Phenomenon) who did the study group about BNP movement. I did not write it, I copied it to be read easily.***

WARNING: About “Banal Na Pag-aaral”
Leader: Mrs. Salvacion (Sister Salve) Aguillon Carreon, alias Mrs. Remedios Rios Stuart
(August 15, 1996, Sixth Revision)

***Information and Explanation Of Terms In The Title: * **“Banal Na Pag-aaral” are Filipino words, meaning “Sacred or Holy Study.” On March 14, 1944 Salvacion Pacradona was born in Dagami, Leyte, Philippines. On *January 16, 1965 *Miss Aguillon married Mr. Delfin Pablo Carreon at St. Joseph The Worker Catholic Church, Cloverleaf, Balintawak, Quezon City, Philippines. Her name became Mrs. Salvacion Pactadona Aguillon Carreon. She had 4 children with Mr. Carreon and later separated from him, but never divorced him civilly in the United States of America. There is no civil divorce in the Philippines. In 1968 she founded the BNP in Novaliches, Quezon City, Philippines. As a sign of respect, some began to call her Sister Salve even though she was never a religious sister. Mrs. Carreon changed her name and identity by tampering with her papers and document, e.g. passport on *August 20, 1984 *and birth certificate on August 21, 1984, to Miss Remedios Bautista Rios in order to come to the United States. On February 4, 1985, under her new name, she married Mr. Estanislao (Nilo) Hokson Stuart at the Candlelight Wedding Chapel in Las Vegas Nevada, outside of the Catholic Church. She committed civil fraud, civil bigamy and adultery in the Catholic Church. Under her total new identity, she is now a Naturalized American Citizen. On September 16, 1993, she filed for an annulment of her marriage to Mr. Carreon at the Metropolitan Tribunal of the Archdiocese of Manila. As of February 23, 1996, her annulment was still pending. Without any annulment, through trickery she invalidly married Mr. Stuart on June 12, 1993 at St. Paul the Apostle Catholic Church, 14085 Peyton Drive, Chino Hills, CA 91709. The couple subtly deceived Fr. Michael Maher. Her new name is Mrs. Remedies Bautista Rios Stuart. She fabricated her church documents to fit her completely new identity. The actual marriage took place at St. Elizabeth Seton Catholic Church, 2713 South Grove Avenue, Ontario, CA 91761, because St. Paul the Apostle Church did not have a church facility yet. The invalid marriage was recorded at St Paul the Apostle Church. These great dishonesties and manipulations are with the full approval of “Mahal Na Ingkong,” a spirit and a god that she and her followers claim to possess her entirely at times. Evidently, Mrs. Carreon deceived the civil authorities of the United States of America, the Catholic Church and God. These data can be picked up at public records.
 
believer112 said:
And like I said if you are interested infinding out about the priests that say Mass and give out the Sacraments at the BNP center , come to the Mass , its held at approx 12 noon every Sunday. You are the one accusing them of not having authority from their bishops , don’t you think its your resposnsibility to disprove my statement .

Shalom
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For Mass to be said anywhere outside of a Church is unusual. People have every right to question that and it is up to the priest and the organizers to show that the priest does indeed have faculties in the diocese and permission to say Mass outside a Church.

Also, it doesn’t matter if they have faculties from thier own bishops. If they are saying Mass, they need faculties from the Bishop in whose diocese the Mass is.
 
**EX-CATHEDRA literally means from the chair. It means that the Pope has the final say when it comes to anything that involves the Catholic church.

This is a distortion of the teaching of the church. Consult your Bishop please… give me your source.

This authority is vested in him only. I am beginning to have my doubts that you are even Catholic. The Pope explicitly said that using condoms is a sin and you don’t believe him ??
If it comes from the Pope whether it is spoken or written it is binding on all Catholics .

Again another distortion,… the Orthodox are also catholics…do you mean they are also bound by the pope’s teaching when in fact they don’t recognize him as their leader?..Are you kidding me?

That is what ex-cathedra means. He is infallible in all and in everything that is related to the Catholic Church .
During the reign of Pope John Paul II , he used his authority to
consecrate Russia , to declare the Virgin Mary as Co-redemptrix , and to declare that we are in the era of the Holy Spirit . all these were done without consultation , using his authority… I can continue but the post will be overly long . I can only conclude that you never knew what ex-cathedra meant. the Church never changed its definition , you just did not understand what it meant**.

HAHAHAHAHAHA… Please consult your parish priest or your bishop what ex-cathedra means. While you are right in its literal meaning, that is not what it means when applied to papal authority to define a dogma…Ask them also when does the pope use “ex-cathedra”… you really have no knowledge on this… Is the pope infallible in all and in everything? I have never come across a pope claiming this… only you my friend… I would like to recommend you to be the pope’s adviser… Was the pope infallible when he divided the world between Spain and Portugal as you said? Do you want me to believe that this is the truth, infallible as it is by your definition of ex-cathedra and papal auhtority? Do you really believe that the World belongs to these two countries?.. are you out of your mind … even the pope doesn’t believe this. Does BNP CHURCH believe that the world belongs only to Spain and Portugal?..your knowledge of the Catholic Church is so distorted… no wonder you belong to a none-catholic BNP CHURCH headed by an impostor pastor…don’t you wonder why this BNP thread is classified by this forum as non-catholic?..because the truth is, IT IS.

lefawe:eek:
 
Continuation of:
WARNING: ABOUT "BANAL NA PAG-AARAL"

**1. BNP BELIEFS AND PRACTICES:
In an Official Statement on January 10, 1990, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles said: “The BNP has sought to legitimize through deceptive relationship with local Roman Catholic parishes. New recruits are told that the BNP is a Roman Catholic organization supported by the hierarchy both in the Philippines and in the United States…In the past, priests have occasionally heard confessions and celebrated mass at Apostolic Mission Classes, believing that the retreat was a “Filipino Cursillo.” Their presence at the retreats has been singled out by BNP leaders as “proof” that the church approves of the BNP.

CATHOLIC BELIEFS AND PRACTICES:
The Archbishop of Manila, in his Official Circular Letter of October 16, 1989, calls Banal Na Pag-aaral (BNP) “under the chairmanship of Mrs. Salve Carreon… (as) not a Catholic association in good standing.” The official Statement of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles on January 10, 1990 warns the faithful: “Roman Catholics should be warned that the BNP is not a Roman Catholic organization in any sense of the word.” And on April 29, 1986 Bishop Norman Mac Farland of the Diocese of Orange declares: ”The Filipino group Banal Na Pag-aaral (BNP) is not affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church nor are its activities approved by the Church.” Remember, it is neither a Roman Catholic association nor organization, the way we accept Cursillo, Marriage Encounter, etc. It is absolutely not approved! The BNP is forbidden in the Philippines through the Bishops’ Conference, due to the leadership of the Archdiocese of Manila on October 16, 1989.
Beside the Archdiocese of Manila, the following dioceses have also banned the “Banal Na Pag-aaral” (BNP):
The Archdiocese of San Francisco on October 12, 1989,
The Archdiocese of Los Angeles on January 10, 1990,
The Diocese of San Jose on February 27, 1990,
The Archdiocese of Chicago on October 17, 1991,
The Diocese of Cleveland on November 2, 1992,
The Diocese of San Diego on February 26, 1993,
The Diocese of Brooklyn on March 2, 1993,
The Diocese of San Bernardino on February 16, 1994,
The Diocese of Orange on April 29, 1996, and other Diocese in the world,
In general, priests and laity are forbidden to support and attend the activities of the BNP, unless they are appointed by the bishops to investigate them. Their practice of deceiving every one continually that they are approved by the Catholic leadership is most disturbing. Deception is based on lying. The teaching and practice of constant lying is from the evil spirit.
  1. BNP BELIEFS AND PRACTICES:
    The BNP claims that it is merely a truly obedient movement and organization within the Catholic Church. It is not a newly founded church.
CATHOLIC BELIEFS AND PRACTICES:
Mr. Estanislao Hokson Stuart**, the current husband of Mrs. Carreon, claims that he is the pastor of the BNP Church in Ontario, California. In fact, on May 1, 1986, in the Superior Court of California, County of Los Angeles at Long Beach, Mr. Stuart declares: ***“I am an individual over the age of majority and am Pastor of the BNP Church located at 1877 East Riverside Drive, Ontario, California 91761…and have held the position of Pastor of the BNP Church since1991 to the present.” ***
Catholic Church Law instructs explicitly that, “No church is to be built without the express and written consent of the Diocesan Bishop.” (Canon 1215, The Code of Canon Law 1983). The BNP did not seek approval from the local bishop because the group was already banned in some dioceses of the world. It deceived the prohibition in the Diocese of San Bernardino on February 16, 1994. Ontario, California is under the jurisdiction of that same diocese.
It is with the utmost probability that the suspicions of many people that the BNP church is truly a “new” Catholic Church, schismatic and heretical, maybe correct.
Schism (schismatic) means rejecting and disobeying the leadership of the pope in the Church and that of the bishops and priests united with him “or of communion with the members of the church subject to him.” “Heresy (heretical) is the obstinate… denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same.”
(Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 2089) The BNP commits the sin of heresy and schism
 
BNP is a bunch of jokes and confused liars…
  1. They don’t take the title “pastor” seriously. They just used it to serve their selfish desire, that is to be considered as non-profit tax-free religious organization. To prove this, they got religious credentials for their “ministers” from the Universal Life Church, since the Catholic Church would never give that to BNP. When this was discovered, IRS cancelled their status as non-profit tax free religious organization in 1997… BNP is lying when it says that Stuart is a pastor, because in truth according to BELIEVER 112, Stuart is not a pastor and doesn’t act as a pastor. But why introduced as a Pastor?..go to hell you bunch of liars…
  2. BNP claims it is NOT a church, but it registered as a CHURCH headed by a pastor. You shameless confused bunch of liars…Satan’s disciples, who are you kidding?
  3. They claim they are catholic… but INGKONG is their God. NEVER once in the history of the Catholic Church that INGKONG is taught as God… BNP a Catholic??? Go to hell you bunch of confused disciples of Satan, the FATHER of all lies.
lefawe:rolleyes:
 
:rolleyes:Believer 112 says:

"What threats are you talking about? There is no dogma or doctrine published in the Catholic Church that says belief or disbelief in Mahal Na Ingkong is an impediment to your personal salvation. So how can the BNP or any of its members threaten you spiritually."

You must be kidding here…you are out of reality. I just talked yesterday to four ex-BNP members and they told me that they were threatened that something bad will happen to them if they will not dissiminate the e-mail from BNP. It’s time to have a reality check Mr. Believer112.

Of course the Catholic Church does not say belief or disbelief in Ingkong is an impediment to your personal salvation. The Catholic Church respects the conscience of everyone. Otherwise the muslims who call their God Allah or the Jehovah’s witnesses Jehovah have no chance of Salvation. You are free to believe in Ingkong, may be your salvation is in Ingkong, but don’t ever claim that Ingkong is what the Catholic Church is teaching as God.

lefawe:D
 
Believer112 says:

“Ate Salve’s first marriage was offically annulled around 1990 , she married her current husband in 1993 . There was no deceit involved in this , Ate salve has promised to show anyone who is interested her official annulment certificate from the diocese of Manila, its from this diocese because that is where she was originally married …”

The document I have stated that: ( I got this document from a Catholic Bishop)

“Mrs. Salvacion (Salve) Aguillon Carreon, once married in the Catholic Church in the Philippines to Mr. Delfin Carreon, had 4 children with him, separated from him, but never divorced him civilly in the United States of America. She changed her identity and name, by tempering with her papers and documents, e.g. passport, to Miss Remedios Bautista Rios and married Mr. Estanislao (Nilo) Hokson Stuart at the Candlelight Wedding Chapel in Las Vegas, Nevada, outside of the Catholic Church, on February 4, 1985, under her new name: hence, committing fraud, civil bigamy and adultery in the Church. Without annulment, the process still pending in the Metropolitan Tribunal of the Archdiocese of Manila by January 5, 1996, through trickery she invalidly married Mr. Stuart on June 12, 1993 at St. Paul The Apostle Church, 14085 Peyton Drive, Chino Hills, California 91709. The actual marriage took place at St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Catholic Church, 2713 South Grove Avenue, Ontario, California 9161 because St. Paul the Apostle Church did not have a church facility yet. The invalid marriage is recorded at St. Paul The Apostle Church. These great dishonesty and manipulation are with the full approval of Mahal Na Ingkong, a spirit and a god that she and her followers claim to possess her totally at times. Her new name is Mrs. Remedios Rios Stuart, though possibly changing it to Mrs-. Salvacion (Salve) Aguillon Stuart. These can be checked in public records.”

What Believer112 says contradicts what the above document says. He says that the first marriage of Salve was declared null in around 1990 which means that her second marriage in 1993 to Stuart is valid.

But if the process of annulment was still pending in the Metropolitan Tribunal of the Archdiocese of Manila by January 5, 1996, then Salve’s second marriage is invalid. And this could ony be done by fraud… Evidence for this is the fact that Salve changed her name to Remedios Rios.

I have checked in one of the BNP registered corporate entities here in the USA. I found out that one corporate entity has Remedios Rios Stuart as member together with Estanislao Stuart.

On the nullity of Salve’s frist marriage, I still have to re-check it though in Manila. My friend is going back to the Philippines and I ask him to check the record of Salve in The Marriage Tribunal in Manila, and the status of BNP there.

lefawe:thumbsup:
 
TO MR. BELIEVER112, I asked you for your source of your understanding of “Ex Cathedra” and “Papal Infallibilty”, but you never gave me.

I am very impressed by your excessive zeal to act as an apologist for the Catholic Church, to the extent that you have added so many things to the authentic church understanding of these terms.

Your zeal to be more catholic than others is really impressive. Your undefended pretention to be expert on Catholic teaching is admirable…BUT My friend little knowledge is dangerous…

Here is the real understanding of the Catholic Church on “Ex-Cathedra and Papal Infallibility” to add to your myopic knowledge…

"In Catholic theology, the Latin phrase ex cathedra, literally meaning “from the chair”, refers to a teaching by the pope that is considered to be made with the intention of invoking infallibility.

The “chair” referred to is not a literal chair, but refers metaphorically to the pope’s position, or office, as the official teacher of Catholic doctrine: the chair was the symbol of the teacher in the ancient world, and bishops to this day have a cathedra, a seat or throne, as a symbol of their teaching and governing authority. The pope is said to occupy the “chair of Peter”, as Catholics hold that among the apostles Peter had a special role as the preserver of unity, so the pope as successor of Peter holds the role of spokesman for the whole church among the bishops, the successors as a group of the apostles."

"Papal infallibility is the dogma in Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error[1] **when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals **, (not just on anything the pope likes, as you claimed Mr. Believe112) as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. It is also taught that the Holy Spirit works in the body of the Church, as sensus fidei, to ensure that dogmatic teachings proclaimed to be infallible will be received by all Catholics. This dogma, however, does not state that the Pope cannot commit sin in his own personal life.

This doctrine was defined dogmatically in the First Vatican Council of 1870. According to Catholic theology, there are several concepts important to the understanding of infallible, divine revelation: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Sacred Magisterium. The infallible teachings of the pope are part of the Sacred Magisterium, which also consists of ecumenical councils and the “ordinary and universal magisterium”. In Catholic theology, papal infallibility is one of the channels of the infallibility of the Church. The infallible teachings of the pope must be based on, or at least not contradict, Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture. Papal infallibility does not signify that the pope is impeccable, i.e., that he is specially exempt from liability to sin. (Remember this Mr. Believer112)

In practice, popes seldom use their power of infallibility, but rely on the notion that the Church allows the office of the pope to be the ruling agent in deciding what will be accepted as formal beliefs in the church."[2] Since the solemn declaration of Papal Infallibility by Vatican I on July 18, 1870, this power has been used only once ex cathedra: in 1950 when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as being an article of faith for Roman Catholics. Prior to the solemn definition of 1870, Pope Pius IX, with the support of the overwhelming majority of Roman Catholic bishops, had proclaimed Immaculate Conception an ex cathedra dogma in December 1854."

Who says that everytime the pope opens his mouth to teach he does it ex cathedra and infallibly?..There you are Mr. Believer112. May be BNP has new teachings on these? which is not abnormal of course…

lefawe:thumbsup:
 
Mr. Believer112

You are absolutely right when you claimed that the Catholic Church does not change her teachings…YOU ONLY CHANGE THEM, mr.erpert. You are more popish than the pope himself. You put yourself consciously or unconsciously above the Catholic Church Magisterium…you extend ex cathedra and pappal infallibilty beyond what is intended by the Catholic Church…You have real bulls… Congrats…It even took a council (attended by many Catholic bishops) to define papal infallibilty and ex cathedra and here you are defining them by yourself…wow unbelievable…

lefawe:thumbsup:
 
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