Babies At Mass

[netmilsmom]

If you are having problems hearing Mass due to a child, cell phone, people talking behind you, the sound system not being loud enough etc. so be it. If you want to be sure you will hear make sure you get to Mass early enough to sit in the front.

If you’re blind, get unblind.
If you are a child with Autism, get over it.
If you are a child with Aspergers, get over it.
If you are hard of hearing, you better buy some good hearing aids and pick a seat away from loud children who make your hearing aid feedback.
So as I see it, anyone with problem, easily solved with the courtesy of parents, should adjust for them. Is that correct?

Do you see? The eas

Except for the readings of the day, the homily, and the announcements you already know what they are saying. If it is a problem hearing the readings, bring the Magnificat or look at the Missal if there is one provided. At my church one of the priests has a VERY thick accent so many people need to read in order to “hear”.

I would venture to say in at least 90% of the cases with parents, they are more worried about how noisy their kid is then you are. Yes the other 10% give everyone with kids a bad name, but this is a church that supports life. We need to support it in all its forms. Even the 10% that may appear not worried about their kids, who knows what is going on in their life.

At Mass worry about the things you should be worrying about (your personal worship of God) don’t worry about the other things. If the problem is a reoccuring thing that can be dealt with (i.e. bad sound system) talk things over with the pastor.

This weekend I saw several people upset at church over the fact that someone kept on receiving cell phone calls at church. Little did they realize that the “cell phone calls” was actually an alarm on a person’s resperator.

Stop worrying yourself about the actions of others, worry about the plank in your own eye.

 

[netmilsmom]

If you are having problems hearing Mass due to a child, cell phone, people talking behind you, the sound system not being loud enough etc. so be it. If you want to be sure you will hear make sure you get to Mass early enough to sit in the front.

If you’re blind, get unblind.
If you are a child with Autism, get over it.
If you are a child with Aspergers, get over it.
If you are hard of hearing, you better buy some good hearing aids and pick a seat away from loud children who make your hearing aid feedback.
So as I see it, anyone with a problem, easily solved with the courtesy of parents, should adjust for them. Is that correct?

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

As for my family, we do quite well without you as our judge and jury. There are far more offensive things done by adults, then children, yet I do not sit in judgment of this people.

I don’t think I am seeing anyone here who is being judgmental…although YOU are coming close. When I say that parents should take their nosiy and unruly children to the cry room I am not judging them as parents. But, it seems like they are making bad decisions. When you see parents whose children are misbehaving…crying…wailing and the parents are sitting their in blissful ignorance…it makes me think they don’t care to do any better and we must all suffer for their lackadaisaical attitude. If they don’t want to at least try to teach their children proper behavior in Mass where will they do it and under what circumstances…or will they?

:heart:Blyss

 

[Marauder]

If you’re blind, get unblind.
If you are a child with Autism, get over it.
If you are a child with Aspergers, get over it.
If you are hard of hearing, you better buy some good hearing aids and pick a seat away from loud children who make your hearing aid feedback.
So as I see it, anyone with a problem, easily solved with the courtesy of parents, should adjust for them. Is that correct?

And why are you worried about these people? Are you one of those people? Let those people worry about any accomidations that should be made. Should all the kids be thrown out of Mass to accomidate the person with Autism? If a person is having problems, let them or their caregiver bring it up with the proper people.

What right do you have to judge the people at Mass?
Keep you mind on worshipping God, not the other people at Mass.

 

[Tom317]

If you’re blind, get unblind.
If you are a child with Autism, get over it.
If you are a child with Aspergers, get over it.
If you are hard of hearing, you better buy some good hearing aids and pick a seat away from loud children who make your hearing aid feedback.
So as I see it, anyone with problem, easily solved with the courtesy of parents, should adjust for them. Is that correct?

Do you see? The eas

Except for the readings of the day, the homily, and the announcements you already know what they are saying. If it is a problem hearing the readings, bring the Magnificat or look at the Missal if there is one provided. At my church one of the priests has a VERY thick accent so many people need to read in order to “hear”.

I would venture to say in at least 90% of the cases with parents, they are more worried about how noisy their kid is then you are. Yes the other 10% give everyone with kids a bad name, but this is a church that supports life. We need to support it in all its forms. Even the 10% that may appear not worried about their kids, who knows what is going on in their life.

At Mass worry about the things you should be worrying about (your personal worship of God) don’t worry about the other things. If the problem is a reoccuring thing that can be dealt with (i.e. bad sound system) talk things over with the pastor.

This weekend I saw several people upset at church over the fact that someone kept on receiving cell phone calls at church. Little did they realize that the “cell phone calls” was actually an alarm on a person’s resperator.

Stop worrying yourself about the actions of others, worry about the plank in your own eye.

Good for you that you are the perfect parent that has raised perfect children who never scream and never cry and never misbehave. Good for you that you never felt exhausted in Church and never delayed intervening with your children instantly every single time. Good for you that each and every time your children even displayed some restlessness you were able to whisk them out of the main body before anyone even noticed. Good for you that you are able to instantly discern a good parent from a bad parent. You, by far, win the best Catholic parent of all time award.

Yet, if I may humbly request, please understand the rest of us are still a work in progress and have not yet reached perfection as you have. We still get tired, we still get frustrated, we still get mortified when our kids act-up in Church, we still try, try, try to teach and train our kids to behave in all places including Church. Yet, apparently, the rest of us have not been given the parenting gifts you received…I am truly sorry that the presence of my children might bother you, perhaps I should leave them at home. Or perhaps they do not belong in Church at all.

 

[Tom317]

I don’t think I am seeing anyone here who is being judgmental…When you see parents whose children are misbehaving…crying…wailing and the parents are sitting their in blissful ignorance…it makes me think they **don’t care **to do any better and we must all suffer for their lackadaisaical attitude. :heart:Blyss

Sure glad to know you are not judging.

 

[djrakowski]

And why are you worried about these people? Are you one of those people? Let those people worry about any accomidations that should be made. Should all the kids be thrown out of Mass to accomidate the person with Autism? If a person is having problems, let them or their caregiver bring it up with the proper people.

Why is she worried about such people? Because some of her friends (that is, my family) are affected by many of the challenges that she listed. Going to church has been exceptionally difficult for us because we have a child with autism and hearing impairment, and another child with Asperger syndrome, anxiety disorder and ADHD. She’s worried about such people because we, her friends in the faith, are such people, and she wants us to be able to go to church without a wrestling match every week. She’s worried about us and others like us because of her love for us. Believe me - I know how much netmil(name removed by moderator) loves our family because she demonstrates it constantly in her actions toward us, and I can’t even begin to express how thankful I am to have her and the rest of her family as some of our closest friends in the faith.

I don’t recall anyone (except for perhaps the OP), especially not netmil(name removed by moderator), suggesting that all children be thrown out of Mass, but rather, that the parents responsible for them exert some effort in teaching the children proper behavior in Mass.

 

[Marauder]

Why is she worried about such people? Because some of her friends (that is, my family) are affected by many of the challenges that she listed. Going to church has been exceptionally difficult for us because we have a child with autism and hearing impairment, and another child with Asperger syndrome, anxiety disorder and ADHD. She’s worried about such people because we, her friends in the faith, are such people, and she wants us to be able to go to church without a wrestling match every week. She’s worried about us and others like us because of her love for us. Believe me - I know how much netmil(name removed by moderator) loves our family because she demonstrates it constantly in her actions toward us, and I can’t even begin to express how thankful I am to have her and the rest of her family as some of our closest friends in the faith.

I don’t recall anyone (except for perhaps the OP), especially not netmil(name removed by moderator), suggesting that all children be thrown out of Mass, but rather, that the parents responsible for them exert some effort in teaching the children proper behavior in Mass.

My point is, unless she is at your church dealing with your family directly, it isn’t her place to be judging others. It isn’t even your right to judge others. The 2 year old at Mass has just as much right as your kids to be at Mass. Just like you wouldn’t expect people to be upset if your autistic kid made an unusual sound or outburst, you should expect the same regard for the 2 year old that may do the same. If you are having problems, talk things over with the pastor. It still does not give you the right to judge the parenting abilities of ANYONE. Just like you don’t want people judging you or your kids, you should not be judging others.

 

[netmilsmom]

And why are you worried about these people? Are you one of those people? Let those people worry about any accomidations that should be made. Should all the kids be thrown out of Mass to accomidate the person with Autism? If a person is having problems, let them or their caregiver bring it up with the proper people.

What right do you have to judge the people at Mass?
Keep you mind on worshipping God, not the other people at Mass.

Why as a matter of fact, while I may not personally have these disorders accept the hearing problems, I love some of the very people you speak of.
Why are you so hostile to the handicapped?
(that looks just as unreasonable as "Anti-child, doesn’t it?)

 

[Marauder]

Why as a matter of fact, while I may not personally have these disorders accept the hearing problems, I love some of the very people you speak of.
Why are you so hostile to the handicapped?
(that looks just as unreasonable as "Anti-child, doesn’t it?)

Interesting that you say that, I use to be a Scoutmaster to an entire troop of people that dealt with the disorder you are talking about and many more issues. I am far from being hostile. But just because you may be dealing with “issues” does not give you any more right at Mass then anyone else. If you want people to understand that your autistic child may make occasional outbursts or even prolonged outbursts, you have to understand when the same thing can happen to a 2 year old. Nobody at Mass should be judging anyone’s parenting skills. Leave that to the parents and the proper authorities.

You are there to worship God, pure and simple. If someone can not hear, big deal, continue worshipping God.

 

[Tom317]

I don’t recall anyone (except for perhaps the OP), especially not netmil(name removed by moderator), suggesting that all children be thrown out of Mass, but rather, that the parents responsible for them exert some effort in teaching the children proper behavior in Mass.

Yes, and no-one can judge the efforts unless they are in that parent’s shoes…period! Unless you and others here walk in another person’s shoes, you have no business passing judgment on their parenting skills…none!

 

[marci]

OK, this is my last post because obviously no one is going to take anyone elses opinion into account. The conversation has gotten WAY to personal for some.

I would like to add one thing, however, about the not judging comments. The Lord told us that we are not to judge whether or not someone’s soul is going to heaven or hell. Only God knows this. This is not the kind of judging that people on this thread are being accused of. We are talking about behavior

We all judge behavior. Governments judge which behaviors are lawful, Religions judge which behaviors are sinful, schools judge which behaviors are against the rules, and parents judge which behaviors are acceptable in their children.

All I am saying is, bad behavior may be acceptable to certain parents, but does that mean that society at large must just sit back and say “well, little Johnny enjoys making a nuisance of himself, his parents don’t seem to mind, so I guess I should just grin and bear it?”

I realize that I have no power to physically correct the bad behavior of children in mass that are not mine, but it used to be that parents, and people in general, through fear of embarasement, placed restraints on themselves and their children. Apparently some parents no longer feel the need to do this.

Once again, I am not anti-children. I have four of my own and I remember what going to mass was like when they were toddlers and babies. I know how hard it is and I feel for those parents who are struggling to keep a young child quiet at mass. All I am saying is, the polite thing to do is to remove the child while the screaming, crying, whatever is taking place, then come back in when it’s over. That is what I did. What’s the big deal?

 

[Tom317]

I would like someone to point me to the Scripture in which Jesus says:

“Let only the perfectly well behaved children come to me.”

Please me that Scripture and I will concede the point and leave the thread.

 

[Marauder]

I would like to add one thing, however, about the not judging comments. The Lord told us that we are not to judge whether or not someone’s soul is going to heaven or hell. Only God knows this. This is not the kind of judging that people on this thread are being accused of. We are talking about behavior

Sorry but that is not the only type of judging that is addressed in the Bible. The Bible also talks about not judging others less they judge you and also about addressing the plank in your own eye before addressing the spec in anothers eye.

Mass is for worshipping God pure and simple. Yes, parents should be taking out a screaming child. But no matter what you shouldn’t be judging them. You should continue worshipping God. Yes it may be harder to keep you mind on things, but God never said everything is easy.

 

[Tom317]

OK, this is my last post because obviously no one is going to take anyone elses opinion into account. The conversation has gotten WAY to personal for some.

I would like to add one thing, however, about the not judging comments. The Lord told us that we are not to judge whether or not someone’s soul is going to heaven or hell. Only God knows this. This is not the kind of judging that people on this thread are being accused of. We are talking about behavior

We all judge behavior. Governments judge which behaviors are lawful, Religions judge which behaviors are sinful, schools judge which behaviors are against the rules, and parents judge which behaviors are acceptable in their children.

All I am saying is, bad behavior may be acceptable to certain parents, but does that mean that society at large must just sit back and say “well, little Johnny enjoys making a nuisance of himself, his parents don’t seem to mind, so I guess I should just grin and bear it?”

I realize that I have no power to physically correct the bad behavior of children in mass that are not mine, but it used to be that parents, and people in general, through fear of embarasement, placed restraints on themselves and their children. Apparently some parents no longer feel the need to do this.

Once again, I am not anti-children. I have four of my own and I remember what going to mass was like when they were toddlers and babies. I know how hard it is and I feel for those parents who are struggling to keep a young child quiet at mass. All I am saying is, the polite thing to do is to remove the child while the screaming, crying, whatever is taking place, then come back in when it’s over. That is what I did. What’s the big deal?

Like it or not, we live in a differrent world then even just ten years ago. Many kids come from broken homes, a huge percentage actually. Many kids have parents that both work, causing less time for the required training each kid should get. Many kids are victims of a home in which parents are rarely present and have no time for their kids when they are present. The days of moms being able to stay home are long gone, and for many parents (moms and dads) it is a moral vitory just to be able to get their kids to Church, much less have time to train and discipline them properly.

I am not giving excuses because parents still need to step-up and be parents…yet if we are Catholics, and if we have love in us, then we must try to understand why things are different today then they were 10, 20, 30 years ago. IMO, I’d rather see those mis-behaving kids in Church, then not at all because those children and their parents still receive Graces for being there.

Yes, it would be nice and pleasant if things were perfect during Mass, yet our culture has strayed so far that we cannot expect the same things to happen in Church that happened in days gone by. We can only try our best to help bring the true faith to all people, to help adults and children be formed properly, to help encourage vocations and stay-at-home parenting…yet none of that will come easily and in the meantime we must hold a loving attitude towards all those around us and stop judging even their actions—the very fact they are at Mass is a GOOD THING in this culture and world.

Open your heart to the trials of everyday life that is different today, especially for moms, then it has ever been.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Sure glad to know you are not judging.

I am not judging Tom…to do that I would be saying “Look at the lousy parents…they can’t keep their kids quiet.” What I am saying *if you can understand the difference *is commenting about their behavior…or lack of concern. It is merely an observation based on what is before my eyes.

:heart:Blyss

 

[Jennifer_J]

If you’re blind, get unblind.
If you are a child with Autism, get over it.
If you are a child with Aspergers, get over it.
If you are hard of hearing, you better buy some good hearing aids and pick a seat away from loud children who make your hearing aid feedback.
So as I see it, anyone with a problem, easily solved with the courtesy of parents, should adjust for them. Is that correct?

This is COMPLETLY unfair to the poster and to the rest of us on this board. NO ONE has said anything like that! Everyone is welcome at Mass–EVERYONE. However, am I supposed to know what kind of problem everyone in the parish might have so I, personally, can accomodate them? I don’t think so. If I see someone needing help, I help. If I see someone in distress, I help. If my children are misbehaving, I take care of it. If other people’s children are misbehaving, I ignore them.I can’t possible pick our family seat at Mass because I might disturb someone I don’t know anything about. At some point, the caregiver or the person themself must take into account whatever their disablity is and either do what they must to cope, seek help from the Priest or from the community. I’m not clarvoyant (it would be against Church teaching anyway ) so there is no way of knowing. Are there inconsiderate people out there in the pews, of course–‘Hopital of sinners, not house of Saints’ is the saying, right???

Here’s an example maybe not 100% accurate, but close, I think: Let’s say I’m scared of heights and the ushers ask me to sit in the balcony because of crowding. I can either accept and be terrified and have an episode or inform the usher of my problem and be seated elsewhere. I take my limitations into account and let whoever needs to know the problem so that my needs can be met.

I apologize to anyone at my church who may have been offended/distracted when I was trying to pray and my children turned around in the pew, stood up and smiled at them, or waved, or whatever, before I could correct them, because I took a selfish moment to pray. Shame on me

Jennifer

 

[Tom317]

We need to 100% encourage parents and their children to attend Mass. Bashing their lapses or mistakes is not building them up, it is tearing them down. Parents need Mass even more then others because the family and children in general have been under attack for many years and families and kids need the Graces they receive at Mass so very much. That is not to say others do not need the Graces too (there are no absolutes with this), it is just that satan is quite busy trying to give parents every possible excuse to not go to Mass, to not train their kids in the faith, to not even take the faith seriously…every child and every parent at Mass is a victory for Christ, even if they are not very well behaved! Likewise, every person who attends Mass also is a victory for Christ because in this world satan is so very busy trying to tear everything good down.

If you do not like the behaivor of a certain family or child, then pray for them, then after Mass say hello to them and thank them for coming to Mass, perhaps even offer to help them with their children in the future. Yet, please stop thinking ill thoughts of them and cease bashing them and talking poorly of them, because they too are children of God and God welcomes them into HIS House.

First comes love!

 

[netmilsmom]

My point is, unless she is at your church dealing with your family directly, it isn’t her place to be judging others. It isn’t even your right to judge others…

And what makes you think I’m not in church with them?

If you punch my husband in the nose, I’m I not suppose to judge you?
I don’t hate you, but I sure do dislike your actions.

 

[cecilia97]

I gladly accept children…but when they start to be disruptive that is the time for the parents to take some action. Many I have seen are quite good at taking their little ones out. Some don’t give a darn and sit there and let little Bobby throw rice krispies at the people while they are tearing into the missalettes. If the CRY ROOM is a mess…doesn’t that pretty much say alot about many of the parents that are there in the first place?

:heart:Blyss

I would assume that’s where the dirty diapers came from, yes. But I mentioned this little anecdote to show that the cry room isn’t the one-size-fits-all solution. I don’t have kids, but I’ve heard cry rooms can be downright hellish places.