Babies who die in utero

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MrsAngelala

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After yet another feast day spent listening to God’s plan for salvation through baptism – and I had to go to Mass twice today – I’m sinking fast.

I suffered a miscarriage three months ago. She was my first child. My path to being open to life was difficult, so you can’t even begin to imagine my horror when I learned through these forums and the Catholic Answers archives that my child, whom I bore not from any personal desire but only in obedience (I’ve never wanted children), is damned because God didn’t keep her alive long enough to be baptized. I have spent hours and hours screaming in agony over this.

Every once in a while I get stuck choking on the idea that God used my obedience to make me complicit in the damnation of my own daughter. Sometimes it leaves me doubled over in pain, unable to breathe. Sometimes, like today, I have to give up and go to bed because I just can’t do anything else. Later in the day it got a lot messier, when I unexpectedly burst into tears at the second Mass, tried to exit discreetly, tripped and fell with a BOOM… because that was necessary…

I’ve read the ITC document. I’ve had a lot of truly damaging experiences with Christ’s representatives in the Church. I found that the ITC’s direction to entrust my daughter to God’s love and mercy – blindly, and contrary to my lived experience – was not realistic or helpful. I’ve also seen CCC 1261, and frankly, I don’t understand why everybody points to it when 1257 is more relevant.

There is a lot I don’t understand about the inconsistencies between God’s revelation of himself through salvation history and these interpretations of doctrine which have so upset me. This is just what pertained to today’s feast:
  1. How is it that Jesus lived an entire human life, including a full nine-month sojourn in the womb, so that he could be like those he came to save in every way except sin – but then allowed his Church to exclude from his salvation those who die while still living in the womb, by denying them any path to baptism (water, desire, or blood)?
  2. If as the ITC document says, we are all mystically connected to Christ through his incarnation, and if he is most especially concerned with the least and the littlest (remember those “little children” he told us not to hinder were not baptized Christian children!), how is it that these unborn babies don’t have any claim on Jesus’ baptism?
 
I’m very sorry for your loss. You are in my prayers.

You should know, though, that the Church doesn’t teach that unbaptized babies are damned. The Church does not teach that they are excluded from salvation. Rather, we entrust them to the mercy of God. The ITC document is actually entitled “The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Baptism.” God can function outside of the sacraments and give his grace to whatever souls he wants to. We cannot speak with certainty about the souls of infants, but we certainly do not say that they are damned.

Today must have been very difficult for you. I have several close friends who have struggled similarly and I can’t imagine what a great Cross that must be to bear. Again, know of my prayers.

-Fr ACEGC
 
You are in my prayers. I also lost my first child due to an ectopic pregnancy. It was heartbreaking and devastating.

God is merciful, not vindictive or deceitful. I hope you feel his loving guidance and find peace.
 
MrsAngelala said:
when I learned through these forums and the Catholic Answers archives that my child, whom I bore not from any personal desire but only in obedience (I’ve never wanted children), is damned because God didn’t keep her alive long enough to be baptized. I
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I’m sorry for you loss and can’t imagine what you must be going through.

I’m sorry if you believe these forums or the Church teach any such thing. Because the Church doesn’t and this forum doesn’t.

I would caution you to get your teaching from your pastor and from the Catechism. Remember, these forums are open for anyone to post, even those with erroneous information.

However, I have yet to see a thread where erroneous assertions go unchallenged so I’m not really sure where you’ve gotten this. Or why you’d be searching the forum archives on this topic rather than talking to your pastor.

The ordinary means of salvation are the sacraments. We are bound by them, God is not.

I encourage you to seek counseling, because you may be going through depression and not thinking clearly.
 
MrsAngelala said:
I suffered a miscarriage three months ago. She was my first child. My path to being open to life was difficult, so you can’t even begin to imagine my horror when I learned through these forums and the Catholic Answers archives that my child, whom I bore not from any personal desire but only in obedience (I’ve never wanted children), is damned because God didn’t keep her alive long enough to be baptized. I have spent hours and hours screaming in agony over this.
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  1. I’m very sorry for your lose. My first child was lost via miscarriage too, so I can relate to what you are feeling. You & your baby are in my prayers tonight.
  2. Now, I will answer your post. The church does NOT teach that the child is damned. Babies who die in utero do not burn in Gehenna. The traditional answer taught by St. Thomas Aquinas is that these children go to limbo of the infants, which is a place of bliss. According to this THEORY, they do not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but however, they are not damned.
  • Today, the Church teaches that we place them in God’s Mercy and we pray that God will allow them to enter Heaven. After-all, while we are bound to God’s law, He can make exceptions. So we pray that He will make an exception and allow these children in. However, if He does not, we know that they will spend eternity in a state of bliss and joy in Limbo.
  • The confusion we have in English stems from the fact that we use the word “hell” has two different meanings in English and we use both in Christianity. Please see my post about this in a previous thread below.
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Can God decide to take somebody out of hell? Moral Theology
If there was a person who God didn’t want in Hell, they would never go there in the first place. They would go to Purgatory. Maybe even suffer badly in Purgatory, but they wouldn’t go to Hell. Only the eternally damned are in Hell (also known as “Gehenna”). Some background for everyone Sometimes people get confused because in English we use “Hell” to mean “Gehenna” - the place of the eternally damned - and “hell” to often mean “Sheol” - the underworld, or land of the dead. According to St.…
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  • Now, with all this said, there have been a number of people who have claimed to have received private revelations that their miscarried children or siblings are in heaven. Some of the most powerful accounts have come from siblings who received a private revelation about a miscarried sibling they didn’t know about. The child talks to their parents after the vision and the parents are shocked at the detail - specially in situations where the parents had secretly named the child or had a boy’s and girl’s name picked out, without their other children knowing.
In closing: the church teaches that we just don’t know for sure what happens to miscarried children. But we do know they are not punished to burn in Gehenna. They either exist in a state of Bliss and joy in Limbo, or they enter Heaven through God’s Mercy. Therefore, we pray for them.

I pray this is helpful & please be at peace.

God bless
 
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No one knows what happens to unbaptized infants, but we do know that God is merciful, God loves us more than we can ever imagine, and that those who have never personally sinned will never be allowed to suffer even the slightest pain in the afterlife, either physical or spiritual.
 
I’m so sorry for your loss, my wife and I have been through similar circumstances and it’s definitely not easy to climb out of that pit of despair.
The Church does not teach that unbaptised babies are doomed to eternal damnation, so please take heart in knowing that your little one is with God and that someday you WILL be reunited again!
Until that joyful time, she will be watching over you and helping you and your husband on your journey.
You really need to connect with a good priest or faith-based counselor to work through everything that you are feeling because it sounds like you are headed down a dark path, one that only leads to more pain and despair (we know firsthand).
If you stray too far down that path, the Devil lies in wait to try to exploit your pain in order to turn you against God.
God is LOVE! God’s mercy is INFINITE! God is TRUTH! God does not deceive, He is not manipulative. God has a plan for each of us and He wants good things for you and your family! Through plenty of prayer, counseling, and time, healing can begin.
We found that by opening up to others about our loss, we learned that many fellow Catholics had also lost babies in utero and they helped us learn how to heal. I will pray that God grants you and your husband peace and strength during this very difficult time. Please feel free to contact me if you wish to discuss further.
 
MrsAngelala said:
so you can’t even begin to imagine my horror when I learned through these forums and the Catholic Answers archives that my child, whom I bore not from any personal desire but only in obedience (I’ve never wanted children), is damned because God didn’t keep her alive long enough to be baptized
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Could you please cite this?
 
God bless you @MrsAngelala in your sufferings .

Be at peace .

I have no reason to believe other than that your child is in the loving embrace of our Father who created your child .

With hope look to the time when you will meet your child face to face .

The relationship between you , your child and God is to be treasured .

I leave the theology to the theologians .
 
Hi there,

I am so sorry for your loss.
When I read your story, the quote of Saint Zelie Martin come into mind:
“We shall find our little ones up above.”

Saint Zelie Martin, the mother of St. Therese of Lisieux, lost many of her children after her children’s birth. As the Church does not teach that miscarried infants are dammed, she had hope in God and knew that her children were with God. I cannot imagine how much she was in pain about losing 4 children.

Please do not lose hope. God is love, and His mercy is everlasting. I believe that someday, you will be united with your child. I will offer up a prayer for you and the intersession of St. Zelie Martin and may God continue to bring you peace and healing!

Pax Christi!
 
MrsAngelala said:
when I learned through these forums and the Catholic Answers archives that my child, whom I bore not from any personal desire but only in obedience (I’ve never wanted children), is damned because God didn’t keep her alive long enough to be baptized. I have spent hours and hours screaming in agony over this.
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First, I add my condolences on your loss and pray that God comforts and consoles you in this very sad and difficult time.

Second, regarding your assertion above that these forums say the baby is “damned” - where did you read this? It must have been an old, wrong thread because in the number of discussions we have had on this subject on CAF in the last couple years, posters including myself have pretty much said the same things that Father Edward said, that we entrust the innocent baby to God’s mercy to take its soul to Heaven, which is also the teaching of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church does not teach and has never taught that miscarried babies are “damned”, so I am not sure where you got that misinformation.
 
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I am so sorry to hear your story. A week ago, I posted here a post " Does God really exist?" because one of my colleagues died of motor cycle accident and she was five month pregnant. I just cannot understand why God allowed her to be pregnant if it was to end up like this. And many members replied me with very helpful replies.
I do not have better reply other than saying that God must have better plan for you. And hope other will give you useful answers to strengthen your faith.
 
Thank you for your compassionate replies, everyone. Thank you. The new day has already proven more manageable. Unfortunately, I have an unusually long and late day at work today, so I can’t respond in detail to everyone personally. Please forgive me for this, after you’ve taken the time to respond with empathy.

Someone mentioned depression, and I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear in my original post. Not every day is like this. Sundays are often pretty tough. Daily Mass is often okay. Feast days tend to be the heart-renders.

Some of you are offended that I said I found damnation of the unborn all over these boards. I think part of it is vocabulary: when I say “hell” and “damnation,” the majority of you seem to be thinking about fire and brimstone and the pain of sense, whereas I am referring to CCC 1035, “The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.” Limbo is not officially taught by the church, and not found in the current catechism, but it is all over these boards. However limbo is dressed up, it is still eternal separation from God, and therefore hell. Since Limbo is the only explanation I have found here or anywhere for the question “what happened to my daughter?” that is offered with a basis of evidence instead of feeling, and laid on top of Catholic Answers encyclopedia article on Baptism, it’s not been a good situation for me.

I have talked to my pastor, twice. My husband and I are new to our current church. After asking for help from my diocese and not finding any there, I left my last one when I found out I was pregnant because my situation there often made my physically ill, and I had to bring that to an end to protect the baby. Our new community is amazing. When we lost the baby less than two months after we arrived there, the community was incredibly generous and kind to us, even though we were strangers, and that hasn’t changed. However, since we’re new, my conversations with the pastor seem to be mostly laying groundwork for a longer-term relationship. I am so grateful for this. On the other hand, there hasn’t been a whole lot of space yet to dig into the stuff that keeps laying me flat. I am trying. I am reaching out to my local church. I am still showing up for daily Mass, and still spending daily time in adoration.

Thinking about this thread in adoration this morning, I found you’ve collectively given me another idea for asking for help at church – this is a small community where both the pastor and the subordinate leadership really know their people. I think I could actually walk into the office and ask if there’s a woman in the community strong enough to listen and respond to me without danger to herself. (And without telling me to “stop thinking.” I had to lay down my intelligence too many times at my last church in order to stay, and I think my intellect will turn on me if I try that again.) The secretary is out for a few days, so I have some time to bring this thought back to Jesus in adoration.

Thank you to all of you for responding so promptly and in charity. God bless you.
 
MrsAngelala said:
Limbo is not officially taught by the church, and not found in the current catechism, but it is all over these boards. However limbo is dressed up, it is still eternal separation from God , and therefore hell.
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Limbo was never an official teaching of the Church.

Limbo, when it was unofficially taught, was also never considered Hell. It was supposed to be a pleasant place. This sets up a huge contradiction which you have hit upon. I’m not surprised the Church never embraced it.

Catholics are quite free to not believe in Limbo, as like I said it’s not a Church teaching. I certainly don’t believe in it. I’m pretty sure lots of people on here don’t. I believe what Father Edward said. It’s in the Catechism and a priest is also saying it here. Limbo, schmimbo.

I hope you feel better. I will keep you in my prayers.
 
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I am sorry for your loss and send you my heartfelt condolences and will remember you in my prayers. I cannot even begin to imagine your suffering.

As I understand the Church’s teaching we do not know the fate of any individual who died. While there are “rules” laid down by the Church about baptism it can hardly apply to an unborn child. The Church does not teach the unborn infants who die in the womb are damned. Remember, too, that God in his loving mercy is not bound by our rules. He is merciful.

I do not know what happened but the Church does encourage people to name a miscarried child and can offer a funeral. The Book of Blessings offers a blessing for parents after miscarriage. Talk to your priest about how you feel.

The worst thing to do is bottle up what you feel. I do not, and neither need nor want to know, where you are, but there will be organisations where you live that support parents in these most awful circumstances. For you own personal wellbeing I encourage you to seek them out and take their help. If you cannot find one ask for support from your family doctor, midwife or gynaecologist. I really hope they did not leave you to cope with this alone.
 
MrsAngelala said:
Someone mentioned depression, and I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear in my original post. Not every day is like this. Sundays are often pretty tough. Daily Mass is often okay. Feast days tend to be the heart-renders.
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It doesn’t have to be every day for it to be depression. Please get evaluated by your doctor and talk to someone about your grief.
MrsAngelala said:
Limbo is not officially taught by the church, and not found in the current catechism, but it is all over these boards. However limbo is dressed up, it is still eternal separation from God , and therefore hell
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And NOT taught by the Church. That’s the key point. You are focusing on something NOT taught by the Church and being upset by it.
MrsAngelala said:
I think I could actually walk into the office and ask if there’s a woman in the community strong enough to listen and respond to me without danger to herself.
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Or you could ask to talk to your pastor who is trained to help people in spiritual crisis.
 
I am very, very sorry for your loss. The Church’s current teaching on unbaptized infants is that we entrust them to God and hold out hope for their salvation.

There were various, theological speculations in the past on what happened to unbaptized infants. I don’t know if it’s proper to just blankly state it was “never a teaching of the Church…” perhaps we could say it was never a Teaching with a capital T, or one that never required absolute assent, but certainly many past theologians have written on it. Saint Thomas Aquinas’ position on “Limbo” was that unbaptized infants would be resurrected without the supernatural happiness of the beatific vision but that they would have a plenitude of natural happiness, that they wouldn’t suffer any pain of loss or suffer at all, and they would still rejoice (in a natural way) at God’s goodness.

That said, let me return again to my first paragraph, in which the Church professes that we hold out hope for the salvation of unbaptized infants and their reception of the beatific vision.
 
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