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LeahInancsi
Guest
What about all of the other sexually active teens?
This girl just happened to get caught.
This girl just happened to get caught.
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deb1
Guest
We are all sinners. Simply because some have not committed the sin of premarital sex does not mean that they have not committed equally serious sins that they are able to hide.
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JezuUfamTobie
Guest
I think it’s all summed up right there in that sentence! Thank you.
From a psychological standpoint, memorably cruel or shame-inducing punishments are not an effective deterrent. But they do make children (and teens) feel unloved–which is counter-productive since that’s a big reason why a teen girl would engage in premarital sex in the first place. If someone wants to help convince a teenage girl that premarital sex is wrong… well, they’d do well to remember that you catch more flies with honey.
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valient_Lucy
Guest
Yes, I think I would go, especially if the mother had repented.
I would thank her for choosing to have her baby.
An unwed mother in our society needs all the support she can get, given the fact that so many of them face so much pressure.
I know for a fact that my grandmother, who nearly had an abortion herself and thinks that there’s no difference between having an abortion and having a mole removed, would give me the money for an abortion if I ever wanted one. Even though I know I could never do this, I have to admit that this would be a tremendous temptation for me, to know that I would never have to face the shame of my family and friends, and I could allow everyone to think that I’m still a good person.
I understand the reason for shame, and I do think that our society could use more shame. The trouble with shaming the mother is it invaiably hurts the child. We cannot harm the mother without harming the child, espeically if she chooses to raise the baby herself. What we should do is shame the father, since the father ususally is not as involved in his child’s life, and we can shame him without hurting the child. I’m a big fan of shaming unwed fathers.
I agree with the other posters though, an unwed mother should put up her baby for adoption. It is the best option for her and the baby. (Plus, then we can shame the mother to our hearts content, since we won’t be hurting the baby!
) I know that giving up a baby is hard, harder than I’m sure I could ever imagine. But it’s called tough love, and love demands that we do what is best for others, and not for ourselves. It is in a child’s best interest to be raised by both a mother and a father, regardless of whether or not the mother and father are the biological parents. In my opinion, if an unwed mother really loves her child, she will do what’s best for the child, no matter how much it hurts her. If I was ever faced with a crisis pregnancy, I would put the child up for adoption. I made that decision years ago, and nothing has ever changed my mind. I do not think that a mother who chooses to raise the baby for herself is a bad person, but I do think she might be putting her own interests above that of the baby.
I would thank her for choosing to have her baby.
An unwed mother in our society needs all the support she can get, given the fact that so many of them face so much pressure.
I know for a fact that my grandmother, who nearly had an abortion herself and thinks that there’s no difference between having an abortion and having a mole removed, would give me the money for an abortion if I ever wanted one. Even though I know I could never do this, I have to admit that this would be a tremendous temptation for me, to know that I would never have to face the shame of my family and friends, and I could allow everyone to think that I’m still a good person.
I understand the reason for shame, and I do think that our society could use more shame. The trouble with shaming the mother is it invaiably hurts the child. We cannot harm the mother without harming the child, espeically if she chooses to raise the baby herself. What we should do is shame the father, since the father ususally is not as involved in his child’s life, and we can shame him without hurting the child. I’m a big fan of shaming unwed fathers.
I agree with the other posters though, an unwed mother should put up her baby for adoption. It is the best option for her and the baby. (Plus, then we can shame the mother to our hearts content, since we won’t be hurting the baby!
) I know that giving up a baby is hard, harder than I’m sure I could ever imagine. But it’s called tough love, and love demands that we do what is best for others, and not for ourselves. It is in a child’s best interest to be raised by both a mother and a father, regardless of whether or not the mother and father are the biological parents. In my opinion, if an unwed mother really loves her child, she will do what’s best for the child, no matter how much it hurts her. If I was ever faced with a crisis pregnancy, I would put the child up for adoption. I made that decision years ago, and nothing has ever changed my mind. I do not think that a mother who chooses to raise the baby for herself is a bad person, but I do think she might be putting her own interests above that of the baby.
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JezuUfamTobie
Guest
I think this is a rather simplistic view of things. If a single mother has the emotional resources to be able to raise a child herself, that child certainly has a good chance of growing up fine. If that were not so, we would demand that divorced people and widows also give up their children for adoption. It is certainly good for children to have a good father, but they need not be ripped from the side of their biological mother just to achieve that end. The moral good of “having a father” doesn’t trump the moral good of “being raised by one’s own loving mother.”
I was not a teen mom, but I am a single mom and I think my son is better off with me–being raised in a good, orthodox Catholic home with modest means–than he would be if I adopted him out.
(Not to mention the lasting psychological damage that that would do to the both of us at this point.) Children should be raised wherever gives them the best chance of getting to heaven. If you give up a child for adoption, you have no control over the choices his new parents make–and no guarantee that those choices will help your child grow in holiness.
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Karin
Guest
Please lets nto forget financial resources…raising a baby does require $$.I think this is a rather simplistic view of things. If a single mother has the emotional resources to be able to raise a child herself, that child certainly has a good chance of growing up fine. If that were not so, we would demand that divorced people and widows also give up their children for adoption. It is certainly good for children to have a good father, but they need not be ripped from the side of their biological mother just to achieve that end. The moral good of “having a father” doesn’t trump the moral good of “being raised by one’s own loving mother.”
I was not a teen mom, but I am a single mom and I think my son is better off with me–being raised in a good, orthodox Catholic home with modest means–than he would be if I adopted him out.
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estesbob
Guest
Absolutely-if for nothing more to give her positive affirmation for NOT aborting her child.
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estesbob
Guest
You handled this situation perfectly, IMO.
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JezuUfamTobie
Guest
Well… I’m doing fine, and not on welfare of any kind, nor do I receive child support. I don’t see why a resourceful teen mom couldn’t do what I do. I have no college degree, but I managed to find a job that not only earns a good living, it allows me to be with my son 24/7.
Raising a child doesn’t require loads of cash, and Jesus seemed to think that the first priority is holiness, not $$.
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Karin
Guest
Well I did fine also when I raised my son as a single mom.
I am sure that a resourceful teen could do what we did…but some can not and some of them do not have families that will support them and a child also…so without $$ (and not going on welfare) how are they going to raise this child(ren), it does require $$ not loads of it but some?
Please also note that I was agreeing with your post but I do think that some $$ is needed to raise a child…as I pointed out to in post since your post left it out
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JezuUfamTobie
Guest
Agreed. I just don’t think being poor is by itself should be a reason for giving up a child who is wanted and loved.
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Karin
Guest
Agreed…but you do have to factor that in to the WHOLE equation…money or lack of it can not be left out of the equation.
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mosher
Guest
This is not quite correct morally. Public scandal is not sufficiently expiated by private repentance. For instance, a politician who publicly supports things contrary to the faith must in turn publicly recant what he says as a necessary portion of lifting his excommunication. This is simplistic and necessarily a one to one correlation to the topic under discussion but my point is that public scandal has a different treatment and gravity than private sin.
I think that perhaps this is what is being missed in my position. Once something takes on the nature of being public it must be treated differently. I think that some here are treating this as a private matter when in fact it is not.
This is what I find disturbing. I find it disturbing that we have to do all this to get women to chose life these days. The solution is not emotional support. That is only a plan B (excuse the use of terms) option in the battle against abortion. Granted one of the reasons why girls have pre-marital sex is because they are emotionally damaged as it is and we shouldn’t do much more to make it worse. However, at the same time it is incumbent upon all of us to teach our children true love which is not an emotional fancy. Our culture is so backward on this issue of love that it is no wonder that so many people have tattered emotions because if we are taught that love = affection then we will never find satisfaction. However, if we learn and then teach that love is truly “the desire of the highest good for the other” then we may solve a lot of the problems of the world and not just this one.
I remember at one time I heard something that made a lot of sense to me. A person was arguing with another person and one was saying that they do this and do that for their kid and that they felt that they were under-appreciated for it. What made sense was the other person said “What do you want a cookie?” Then went on to say that the person who was complaining was selfish because those things are the basics that he was expected to do as a parent and a person should not be rewarded for doing the basics. So, I have a hard time throwing a party just for the purpose of celebrating a woman not killing her baby because that is what she is supposed to do - not kill the kid. However, with nearly 25% of pregnancies ending in abortion here is the US it is no big surprise to me that the ordinary has become viewed as extraordinary.
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gmarie21
Guest
For those who would not attend a baby shower of an unwed teen or woman, would you or have you attended wedding showers of cohabitating couples? They too were in a public scandal at the time of the shower. Just because they’re planning a wedding doesn’t mean that they are in a Sacramental Marriage. Why support a cohabitating couple by attending their wedding shower but not support an unwed pregnant woman?
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mosher
Guest
No. I am very consistent in the application of ethics.
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
Where did this idea come from that baby showers are a reward for moral means of conception? When we throw birthday parties are we rewarding people for having a good moral year, or just to show we love them? Maybe we give them a birthday gift, as long as they don’t tell everybody about it? It’s a little weird to be on board with supporting somebody but needing to be able to do it where nobody will be scandalized by your largess.
The point is not that we would be throwing a party to congratulate the expectant mom for the feat of having concieved or for the circumstances surrounding the conception. To be quite frank, passing judgement on that point really isn’t any of our business. And frankly, I don’t know what is so “public” about a shower, either. It is a private event, not something that shows up in the newspaper…“Miss Violet Smith, though conspicuously unwed to whomever her consort was, was nevertheless feted with a charming baby shower at the home of Mrs. William Jones last Saturday…”
Baby showers are thrown because births are happy events and because preparing for the arrival of a baby requires a lot of stuff. That stuff is lots of fun to pick out one item at a time and a real chore to buy in one fell swoop. In other words, people do not and never have had baby showers in order to congratulate the mother on her upstanding and moral life. They throw them because the prospect of this new arrival is a happy thing. They want to get in on the event! They are happy to contribute! They want to chat about it within their circle of friends! It is a privelege to be included!!
If there is a baby shower and one of the guests truly thinks that the new baby coming is not sufficient reason to get together and celebrate and make a group show of support for the mom, that the child’s parents have somehow made the birth something to be all hang-dog about, then they *should *just stay home. I would not advise self-congratulation about it, but let them stay home, and let’s not argue with them.
This is not worth arguing about. If you don’t want to go to a party, if you really think you’d be throwing your vote in for sin if you did, then do everybody a big favor and stay home. If you think you should go, then go. And if you run up against somebody who has scruples about going, then once you’ve shown them your side of the issue, let them have their scruples. There gets to be a point where argument is useless and it is time to give up worrying about what other people think is right–including me–and do what you feel is right.
If I found out that my friends wringing their hands, worrying whether they should attend my birthday party because I made a mess of my life or didn’t want to come to my wedding because I wasn’t moral enough for them or didn’t want to come to a baby shower I was throwing because they thought Heaven would be somehow wounded if smiles and laughter were included in what I thought an unwed mother needed, I’d say, let them stay home. Nobody is entitled to a birthday party or a big crowd at their wedding or a shower. Let the word “party” retain some meaning, for crying out loud.
The point is not that we would be throwing a party to congratulate the expectant mom for the feat of having concieved or for the circumstances surrounding the conception. To be quite frank, passing judgement on that point really isn’t any of our business. And frankly, I don’t know what is so “public” about a shower, either. It is a private event, not something that shows up in the newspaper…“Miss Violet Smith, though conspicuously unwed to whomever her consort was, was nevertheless feted with a charming baby shower at the home of Mrs. William Jones last Saturday…”
Baby showers are thrown because births are happy events and because preparing for the arrival of a baby requires a lot of stuff. That stuff is lots of fun to pick out one item at a time and a real chore to buy in one fell swoop. In other words, people do not and never have had baby showers in order to congratulate the mother on her upstanding and moral life. They throw them because the prospect of this new arrival is a happy thing. They want to get in on the event! They are happy to contribute! They want to chat about it within their circle of friends! It is a privelege to be included!!
If there is a baby shower and one of the guests truly thinks that the new baby coming is not sufficient reason to get together and celebrate and make a group show of support for the mom, that the child’s parents have somehow made the birth something to be all hang-dog about, then they *should *just stay home. I would not advise self-congratulation about it, but let them stay home, and let’s not argue with them.
This is not worth arguing about. If you don’t want to go to a party, if you really think you’d be throwing your vote in for sin if you did, then do everybody a big favor and stay home. If you think you should go, then go. And if you run up against somebody who has scruples about going, then once you’ve shown them your side of the issue, let them have their scruples. There gets to be a point where argument is useless and it is time to give up worrying about what other people think is right–including me–and do what you feel is right.
If I found out that my friends wringing their hands, worrying whether they should attend my birthday party because I made a mess of my life or didn’t want to come to my wedding because I wasn’t moral enough for them or didn’t want to come to a baby shower I was throwing because they thought Heaven would be somehow wounded if smiles and laughter were included in what I thought an unwed mother needed, I’d say, let them stay home. Nobody is entitled to a birthday party or a big crowd at their wedding or a shower. Let the word “party” retain some meaning, for crying out loud.
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valient_Lucy
Guest
There is one thing that I think we need to decide for this argument; who is the Baby Shower for? Is it for the woman, or is it for the baby?
This point actually makes a big difference. If a shower is for the woman, then it makes more sense to not have a shower for the unwed mother, since she has sinned, and the shower could be seen as condoning sin.
However, if the baby shower celebrates the baby, then the legitimacy of the conception means nothing. A child doesn’t choose his parents, and doesn’t choose to bear the stigma of illegitimacy.
Perhaps, if holding a baby shower for an unwed mother makes people uncomfortable, they could offer to hold a party for the child’s baptism, if the child is baptized.
This point actually makes a big difference. If a shower is for the woman, then it makes more sense to not have a shower for the unwed mother, since she has sinned, and the shower could be seen as condoning sin.
However, if the baby shower celebrates the baby, then the legitimacy of the conception means nothing. A child doesn’t choose his parents, and doesn’t choose to bear the stigma of illegitimacy.
Perhaps, if holding a baby shower for an unwed mother makes people uncomfortable, they could offer to hold a party for the child’s baptism, if the child is baptized.
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Sandi
Guest
Boy, that’s really a tough one…While one wants to give approval to a young girl who’s made the decision to choose to have the baby, one doesn’t want to imply that they’re saying “well done good a fatihful servant” in a situation like this by in effect, throwing a party to celebrate an out-of-wedlock situation.
I think I’d do something like bring a gift my privately, or maybe take her out for a nice lunch and give her the gift then.
I haven’t read all the posts so I don’t know where the baby’s FATHER is in all this…he’s at least 50% responsible for the situation.
I think I’d do something like bring a gift my privately, or maybe take her out for a nice lunch and give her the gift then.
I haven’t read all the posts so I don’t know where the baby’s FATHER is in all this…he’s at least 50% responsible for the situation.
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Sandi
Guest
**
I agree with leonie on this one. My daughter got pregnant at 19. The sperm donor, hit the bricks… I went online, contacted several adoption agencies, maternity homes (ironically, the catholic ones were no where to be found)…my DH and I presented the info to her, and said, “pick”. She said at that time she was keeping the baby. My DH and I said, “fine”, so when will you be moving out? Now mind you, she was living at home, going to college, working part time. She said, “you mean, I can’t stay here?” We said, “no”. Of course her friends thought my DH and I were monsters. Where is it written that my DH and I, inches close to retirement have to raise a child, while my daughter is still practicing bad behavior? Not happening, my DH and I refused to do it. We set out to a Christian maternity home when she was about 5 months along. The home was very strict, there were rules to follow, no headphones, all music had to be pre-approved, if you were over 18, you had to work part time, if you were under 18, you had to be enrolled in school. The money you received from your job, would be placed in a savings account, and you would receive a small stipened. My DH and I had privilege to list who could and who could not “visit” her at the home, as we would be contributing a small fee for her to stay there. She purposely botched the whole thing and the home refused to take her. We drove home. When we got home, I told her she was not coming in the house, to take her suitcase,belongings out of my car, get into hers, and leave, period. She stayed gone, for over 2 weeks. Did I cry, did I worry, yes, I did, about that baby. I knew that my daughter was a Jessica Simpson, princess and was not about to live out of her car, or sleep on a friends sofa. She came home one day, and said, “I’ll go, and I will place this baby for adoption”. While standing at the door, I handed her the phone and the name of another maternity home. She called, and we left that weekend. She hated it. Too bad, so sad. The adoption agency we all worked with was wonderful. She chose OPEN adoption. She chose the parents. He was born Dec 20, 2005, and the adoptive parents took him home on Christmas Eve, thank you Jesus…a family was born. We will be getting together with the adoptive parents on Thanksgiving, and we have been inundated with photos, videos, and my daughter receives a phone call from them every 3 months. She is back in school and working. And the little guy, has a mommy and a daddy. The couple she chose is Catholic. God is working for sure. We received pictures of the christening and just got a picture of him in his Tigger costume…too cute.
No, I would not go to the shower…I would ask my friend to counsel her daughter about OPEN adoption. It’s a win-win for all.
Juli**
WOW! I’m glad the Blessed Mother’s family didn’t take that attitude when she turned up pregnant and unmarried.!
I agree with leonie on this one. My daughter got pregnant at 19. The sperm donor, hit the bricks… I went online, contacted several adoption agencies, maternity homes (ironically, the catholic ones were no where to be found)…my DH and I presented the info to her, and said, “pick”. She said at that time she was keeping the baby. My DH and I said, “fine”, so when will you be moving out? Now mind you, she was living at home, going to college, working part time. She said, “you mean, I can’t stay here?” We said, “no”. Of course her friends thought my DH and I were monsters. Where is it written that my DH and I, inches close to retirement have to raise a child, while my daughter is still practicing bad behavior? Not happening, my DH and I refused to do it. We set out to a Christian maternity home when she was about 5 months along. The home was very strict, there were rules to follow, no headphones, all music had to be pre-approved, if you were over 18, you had to work part time, if you were under 18, you had to be enrolled in school. The money you received from your job, would be placed in a savings account, and you would receive a small stipened. My DH and I had privilege to list who could and who could not “visit” her at the home, as we would be contributing a small fee for her to stay there. She purposely botched the whole thing and the home refused to take her. We drove home. When we got home, I told her she was not coming in the house, to take her suitcase,belongings out of my car, get into hers, and leave, period. She stayed gone, for over 2 weeks. Did I cry, did I worry, yes, I did, about that baby. I knew that my daughter was a Jessica Simpson, princess and was not about to live out of her car, or sleep on a friends sofa. She came home one day, and said, “I’ll go, and I will place this baby for adoption”. While standing at the door, I handed her the phone and the name of another maternity home. She called, and we left that weekend. She hated it. Too bad, so sad. The adoption agency we all worked with was wonderful. She chose OPEN adoption. She chose the parents. He was born Dec 20, 2005, and the adoptive parents took him home on Christmas Eve, thank you Jesus…a family was born. We will be getting together with the adoptive parents on Thanksgiving, and we have been inundated with photos, videos, and my daughter receives a phone call from them every 3 months. She is back in school and working. And the little guy, has a mommy and a daddy. The couple she chose is Catholic. God is working for sure. We received pictures of the christening and just got a picture of him in his Tigger costume…too cute.
No, I would not go to the shower…I would ask my friend to counsel her daughter about OPEN adoption. It’s a win-win for all.
Juli**
WOW! I’m glad the Blessed Mother’s family didn’t take that attitude when she turned up pregnant and unmarried.!
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valient_Lucy
Guest
Amen!!!
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